Moe wrote:
Maybe a bit off topic, but I totally forgot what a pain scratches are
on
vinyl. CD's have gotten us used to zero scratch sounds. I was
listening
to an LP the other day and couldn't get my head around all the ticks
and
pops and this one was in pretty good condition.

So, even if you remove the audio quality argument for now, scratching

vinyl even with very expensive turntables/stylus/arm -- is a serious
issue we tend to forget today in the age of compact discs.

I have a few scratched-up LPs that I still absolutely love. DSOTM
without surface noise is unnatural.

bob

"Moe" wrote in message
...
Maybe a bit off topic, but I totally forgot what a pain scratches are on
vinyl. CD's have gotten us used to zero scratch sounds. I was listening
to an LP the other day and couldn't get my head around all the ticks and
pops and this one was in pretty good condition.

So, even if you remove the audio quality argument for now, scratching
vinyl even with very expensive turntables/stylus/arm -- is a serious
issue we tend to forget today in the age of compact discs.


Scratchy vinyl can be greatly reduced, in some cases even eliminated, with
careful record cleaning, future care to brush dust before every play, and a
line contact stylus. However, this is too much work for some people and the
convenience of CD is certainly real.

wrote:

Moe wrote:
Maybe a bit off topic, but I totally forgot what a pain scratches are
on
vinyl. CD's have gotten us used to zero scratch sounds. I was
listening
to an LP the other day and couldn't get my head around all the ticks
and
pops and this one was in pretty good condition.

So, even if you remove the audio quality argument for now, scratching

vinyl even with very expensive turntables/stylus/arm -- is a serious
issue we tend to forget today in the age of compact discs.

I have a few scratched-up LPs that I still absolutely love. DSOTM
without surface noise is unnatural.

bob

For me, "Too Late Now" by Carole King without pops, clicks and surface
noise is a different song... .

Chung wrote:

For me, "Too Late Now" by Carole King without pops, clicks and
surface
noise is a different song... .

Ah, a piano number for which wow and flutter is essential.

bob

wrote:

Chung wrote:

For me, "Too Late Now" by Carole King without pops, clicks and
surface
noise is a different song... .

Ah, a piano number for which wow and flutter is essential.

bob

Hmmm, I haven't really thought about it, but you may be right. Also, the
piano definitely sounds a little more "bloated" on vinyl, and "leaner"
on CD. Sorry to use those really ambiguous words...

On 14 May 2005 17:26:14 GMT, Moe wrote:

Maybe a bit off topic, but I totally forgot what a pain scratches are on
vinyl. CD's have gotten us used to zero scratch sounds. I was listening
to an LP the other day and couldn't get my head around all the ticks and
pops and this one was in pretty good condition.

So, even if you remove the audio quality argument for now, scratching
vinyl even with very expensive turntables/stylus/arm -- is a serious
issue we tend to forget today in the age of compact discs.

That's why they make tick and pop filters.
Also if you stick with DBX vinyl recordings it's not even an issue,
zero noise inregards to surface noise.
Also I've listened to some French pressed audiophile vinyl lately that
was immaculate, not a scratch or pop to be heard.

Harry Lavo wrote:

"Moe" wrote in message
...

Maybe a bit off topic, but I totally forgot what a pain scratches are on
vinyl. CD's have gotten us used to zero scratch sounds. I was listening
to an LP the other day and couldn't get my head around all the ticks and
pops and this one was in pretty good condition.

So, even if you remove the audio quality argument for now, scratching
vinyl even with very expensive turntables/stylus/arm -- is a serious
issue we tend to forget today in the age of compact discs.



Scratchy vinyl can be greatly reduced, in some cases even eliminated, with
careful record cleaning, future care to brush dust before every play, and a
line contact stylus. However, this is too much work for some people and the
convenience of CD is certainly real.

C'mon. It's too much work.....period. You spend 20-30 minutes cleaning a
record which you will play for 20-30 minutes? Actually, that would makes
sense, if, when you play the record, you record and burn a CDR of that
playback session


CD

"Codifus" wrote in message
...
Harry Lavo wrote:

"Moe" wrote in message
...

Maybe a bit off topic, but I totally forgot what a pain scratches are on
vinyl. CD's have gotten us used to zero scratch sounds. I was listening
to an LP the other day and couldn't get my head around all the ticks and
pops and this one was in pretty good condition.

So, even if you remove the audio quality argument for now, scratching
vinyl even with very expensive turntables/stylus/arm -- is a serious
issue we tend to forget today in the age of compact discs.



Scratchy vinyl can be greatly reduced, in some cases even eliminated,
with
careful record cleaning, future care to brush dust before every play,
and a
line contact stylus. However, this is too much work for some people and
the
convenience of CD is certainly real.

C'mon. It's too much work.....period. You spend 20-30 minutes cleaning a
record which you will play for 20-30 minutes? Actually, that would makes
sense, if, when you play the record, you record and burn a CDR of that
playback session


First, it takes more like 10 mins to clean the first time; after that about
10 secs. each time you play it. For those of us who like our records, its a
small price to pay.

"none" wrote in message
...
On 14 May 2005 17:26:14 GMT, Moe wrote:

Maybe a bit off topic, but I totally forgot what a pain scratches are on
vinyl. CD's have gotten us used to zero scratch sounds. I was listening
to an LP the other day and couldn't get my head around all the ticks and
pops and this one was in pretty good condition.

The problem was more likely the system, not the record. Ordinary, i.e.,
most, cartridges tend to be very resonant in the scratch/pop/tick range. So
are most turntables. So are most arms. The result is that you hear
relatively loud garbage and a relatively quiet signal.

In my experience, dirt is at least as big a problem as damaged vinyl.
Cleaning with a vacuum-type record cleaning machine is always superior to
hand cleaning.

So, even if you remove the audio quality argument for now, scratching
vinyl even with very expensive turntables/stylus/arm -- is a serious
issue we tend to forget today in the age of compact discs.

That's why they make tick and pop filters.

Eh?

Also if you stick with DBX vinyl recordings it's not even an issue,
zero noise inregards to surface noise.
Also I've listened to some French pressed audiophile vinyl lately that
was immaculate, not a scratch or pop to be heard.

There's plenty of high-end vinyl available, and it's very, very quiet. Check
out the catalog available from http://store.acousticsounds.com. (I have no
interest in the company.)

Unfortunately, good cartridges are VERY expensive, but they are highly
resistant to the resonances caused by surface noise, pops and ticks. The
best tick and pop filter is a good cartridge/arm/turntable setup, and a good
record played on such a setup produces the best sounding MUSIC. On a good
system, it's hard to tell an LP from a CD, except that the music on the LP
sounds more like the real thing. But great sound doesn't come cheap. That's
why they call it "high end."

Tom

On 28 May 2005 20:02:35 GMT, "Tom Kelly"
wrote:

There's plenty of high-end vinyl available, and it's very, very quiet. Check
out the catalog available from http://store.acousticsounds.com. (I have no
interest in the company.)

Unfortunately, good cartridges are VERY expensive, but they are highly
resistant to the resonances caused by surface noise, pops and ticks. The
best tick and pop filter is a good cartridge/arm/turntable setup, and a good
record played on such a setup produces the best sounding MUSIC. On a good
system, it's hard to tell an LP from a CD, except that the music on the LP
sounds more like the real thing. But great sound doesn't come cheap. That's
why they call it "high end."

Great sound *does* come cheap - just avoid vinyl! If *you* think that
vinyl sounds 'more like the real thing', that's fine for *you*, but
please don't state it as a *fact*, because it just ain't so.

I also find it trivially easy to tell LP from CD, and that's precisely
because of all the *additional* artifacts of vinyl, not anything
mysteriously 'missing' from CD.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering