[Trevor Wilson]

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...
On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 09:18:43 +1000, "Trevor Wilson"
wrote:


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. ..
On Sat, 28 Apr 2007 15:47:41 +1000, "Trevor Wilson"
wrote:


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news On Sat, 28 Apr 2007 14:50:26 +1000, "Trevor Wilson"
wrote:


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news:97b5335g4r6u0vvp6ddmkegnpsbc54ur52@4ax. com...
On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 12:22:58 +1000, "Trevor Wilson"
wrote:

snip

**I supply the KNOWN DGUs.

Really?

**Yeah, really.

Or do you mean you supply the DGU's that result in a death?

**Nope.

Then why are they on the FBI list?

**Those are the DGUs we know about.




If you can supply the KNOWN DGUs whcih did not result in death, for
the years listed, then we will have more data. 'Till then, that is all
we
have.

No, that is all you want to recognize.

**Read my lips:

If you provide verifiable DGUs where death did not result, for the years
listed, we can include them. Until then, that is the only data
available.


No, information has been posted before about DGU's that you accepted -
then later denied.

**Nope. That is not true. However, humour me: Post it again. Perhaps my
news
service did not pick up your post. I can find no evidence of anyone
posting
DGUs, FOR THE YEARS I LISTED, other than the ones from the FBI.




You have admitted before that DGU's occur that are not on ***YOUR***
'list'.

**Indeed. However, recent demands by yourself and others have forced me
to
revise my figures to reflect more accuracy. I have done so.

No, the only acuracy is that you have is that death resulted in those
DGU's.

**Fine. Supply your supplemental data for the years I listed.


Now, if you wish
to ensure that my figures remain accurate, then YOU must supply accurate
data also. After all, if you supply poor data, then you will just accuse
me
of promulgating inaccurate data. Neither of us wants that, do we?

You have previously admitted that DGU's occur that do not result in
death.

**Indeed.


We also know that some DGU's are not reported to centralized databases
such as the FBI.

**Possibly. I don't know if that is the case or not.

LOL What happened to 'honest' debate trevorboy?

**I'll answer that in the only way possible:

Do you know, for absolute certain, that all DGUs (which are reported to
local authorities) are not also reported to the FBI? I sure as Hell don't
know. I don't have any idea how much (or how little) information the FBI
gathers each year. Do you have some inside information to impart?




There are many, many credible studies that give varying figures - you
reject those because you maintain they are not 'hard data'.

**Of course. Many of those sources contain figures which are from very
poorly executed surveys. Hard data is all we can rely upon to ascertain
the
truth.

"Many" - then by your admission not all fit your category.

**Indeed. All the surveys I've examined are faulty in some way.


And no, hard data is not all that you canb rely on. You don't.

**Demands have recently been placed on me, by yourself and others, that I
ONLY deal in hard data. I am acquiescing to your demands. Naturally, my
demands are the same as yours. Hard data is it. NOTHING else will be
accepted.




hard data
for an exact number canot be had - just as it can't for rape (some
rapes are uinreported), robbery (some robberies are not reported),
etc.

**Indeed. SOME rapes and SOME robberies are not reported. They are not
included in any figures. Just as any DGUs which are not reported will not
be
included in any figures.


So what we are left wtih is your bogus claim that there are only about
200 DGU's a year, which is so patently foolish that i am almost
surprised you believe it (along with some other stupid things you have
professed to believe).

**OK, fine. Present your supplemental data.


http://www.keepandbeararms.com/opsd/
. Warning shot turns deadly (AZ)
. Man shot while trying to break into house, police say (LA)
. Resident fires at 2 suspected of break-in (PA)
. Store clerk's gunshot fatal to teen boy (MI)
. Homeowner: Illegal entry was more than that (MI)
. Drive-Through Shooting Leaves Would Be Robber Dead (CA)
. Mobile home intruder met by gunfire (AK)
. Robbery victim shoots attacker (South Africa)
. Gun shop owner apprehends suspect during armed robbery (TX)
. Prowler prompts man to fire gun (IN)
. Fatal double shooting in Jacksonville ruled justifiable homicide
(FL)
. Jeweler gets best of robbers in gun fight (LA)
. Gunman Shot By Store Clerks During Acampo Robbery (CA)
. Robbery suspect killed at diner (TN)
. Man kills burglar, police say (LA)
. Police: Armed burglar killed by homeowner (TX)
. Early Morning [Self-Defense] Shooting (FL)
. Homeowner, 79, Not Charged For Shooting Intruders (KY)
. Police say man was killed in self-defense (WI)
. Intruder Shot To Death After Breaking Into Home (FL)
. East Side Shooting Involved Earlier Assault, Vandalism (TX)
. Man killed in neighborhood shootout (LA)
. 79-Year-Old Shoots Two Intruders, Police Say (KY)
. Merchant ends holdup, shoots robber (IN)
. Suspect shot in head by liquor store owner (CO)
. No charges for wife who shot and killed her husband (NY)
. District attorney's office rules shooting was self-defense (NC)
. Two people kidnap Coppell woman (TX)
. Woman won't face charges in husband's death (SC)
. Police: Burlington store owner shoots would-be burglar (NC)
. Convenience store owner fatally shoots would-be armed robber (TX)
. Police: Store Clerk Shoots Back At Robbers (NC)
. Robber beaten with brolly, shot (South Africa)
. Alleged Burglar Shot in East Montgomery (AL)
. Teen Intruder Shot By Neighbor, Police Say (MS)
. Man killed at Brooklyn Center apartment (MN)
. Police arrest Bossier City shooting victim (LA)
. Mother Fights Back Against Intruder (TX)
. 911 calls reveal chaos in defensive shooting (CO)
. Grand jury no-bills woman in shooting (TX)
. 2 try to rob jewelry store; 1 suspect shot, still at large (AZ)
. Jewelry Store Owner Grabs Gun, Chases Robber (MI)
. Gun Battle Breaks Out Between Family, Intruders (TX)
. Police: Homeowner shoots, kills intruder (TN)
. BSP security guard outduels 3 robbers (Philippines)
. One Man Dead, Another Arrested After Attempted Robbery (NC)
. Florence robbers leave gun behind (FL)
. No indictment in fatal [self-defense] shooting (KY)
. Alleged Burglar Fired On (WA)

**And again, I STILL don't know which years many of the events took place,
as many of the links are broken. Perhaps you can break them down, year by
year for me, as I can't see that data? We can then add your figures to the
FBI ones and come up with a realistic figure for DGUs in the US, for the
five years mentioned previously.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au




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