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#1
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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digitalizing vinyl records
Hi to Everyone,
I am looking for an usb audio interface that would give good results in digitilizing vinyls. Using my original sound card give results that are rather poor in quality. I read somewhere that I ought to have a usb audio interface. Could someone tell of his/her own experience on a specific interface for that purpose ? |
#2
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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digitalizing vinyl records
On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 17:02:53 +0200, Bernard wrote:
Hi to Everyone, I am looking for an usb audio interface that would give good results in digitilizing vinyls. Using my original sound card give results that are rather poor in quality. I read somewhere that I ought to have a usb audio interface. Could someone tell of his/her own experience on a specific interface for that purpose ? There is not a single sound card available today that could possibly adversely affect the quality of a vinyl recording. They are all, without exception, orders of magnitude better than any vinyl record. Are you by any chance trying to plug the pickup straight into the sound card? If so, you are missing a vital component - the phono preamplifier & de-emphasis unit. You will need this whatever sort of sound card you get. d |
#3
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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digitalizing vinyl records
Thanks to Everyone for your input.
At first, I am going to give some details that should have been in my first post. My pickyup (turntable) is not being plugged straight into the sound card. A phono preamplifier is in between. How poor are my digitilized results ? Well, the first time I listened to these, I thought they were OK. It surely was nothing professional, but, thinking of old vinyl records, it was not so bad. So I thought. But then I decided to test the original vinyl records against the digitalized CDs; using the same HiFi speakers and amplifier. I found that the difference was very big, even though it seems a light one at first sight. I don't know how to describe such a difference, so I will try my best to do so. With the vinyl, the piano seems to be in the room, its sound is very pleasurable. Listening the audio CD that I burnt from the digitalized vinyl source, the difference may seem light at first, but it makes the difference between something I am looking forward to listen again and again, and something that I won't care about, even thought is is supposedly the same thing. My sound card is included in my mother board ASUS P5LD2 SE. It is a SoundMax ADI 1986A. My system is not MSWIN, but Linux Debian Sarge on my desktop, Linux UBUNTU 8.04 (Hardy Heron) on my laptop. If you wish to get a more precise idea of what I get in digitalizing vinyls, here are a few links. http://www.teaser.fr/~bdebreil/musique/premier.wav http://www.teaser.fr/~bdebreil/musique/second.wav http://www.teaser.fr/~bdebreil/musique/premier.mp3 http://www.teaser.fr/~bdebreil/musique/second.mp3 http://www.teaser.fr/~bdebreil/musique/premier.aup http://www.teaser.fr/~bdebreil/musique/second.aup http://www.teaser.fr/~bdebreil/musique/premier_data.zip http://www.teaser.fr/~bdebreil/musique/second_data.zip http://www.teaser.fr/~bdebreil/musique/premier.wav http://www.teaser.fr/~bdebreil/musique/second.wav http://www.teaser.fr/~bdebreil/musique/premier.mp3 http://www.teaser.fr/~bdebreil/musique/second.mp3 http://www.teaser.fr/~bdebreil/musique/premier.aup http://www.teaser.fr/~bdebreil/musique/second.aup http://www.teaser.fr/~bdebreil/musique/premier_data.zip http://www.teaser.fr/~bdebreil/musique/second_data.zip http://www.teaser.fr/~bdebreil/musique/premier.wav http://www.teaser.fr/~bdebreil/musique/second.wav http://www.teaser.fr/~bdebreil/musique/premier.mp3 http://www.teaser.fr/~bdebreil/musique/second.mp3 http://www.teaser.fr/~bdebreil/musique/premier.aup http://www.teaser.fr/~bdebreil/musique/second.aup http://www.teaser.fr/~bdebreil/musique/premier_data.zip http://www.teaser.fr/~bdebreil/musique/second_data.zip Thanks in advance for your comments. Bernard Le Tue, 23 Jun 2009 15:08:00 +0000, Don Pearce a écrit*: On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 17:02:53 +0200, Bernard wrote: Hi to Everyone, I am looking for an usb audio interface that would give good results in digitilizing vinyls. Using my original sound card give results that are rather poor in quality. I read somewhere that I ought to have a usb audio interface. Could someone tell of his/her own experience on a specific interface for that purpose ? There is not a single sound card available today that could possibly adversely affect the quality of a vinyl recording. They are all, without exception, orders of magnitude better than any vinyl record. Are you by any chance trying to plug the pickup straight into the sound card? If so, you are missing a vital component - the phono preamplifier & de-emphasis unit. You will need this whatever sort of sound card you get. d |
#4
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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digitalizing vinyl records
On Wed, 24 Jun 2009 00:04:56 +0200, Bernard wrote:
My sound card is included in my mother board ASUS P5LD2 SE. It is a SoundMax ADI 1986A. My system is not MSWIN, but Linux Debian Sarge on my desktop, Linux UBUNTU 8.04 (Hardy Heron) on my laptop. If you wish to get a more precise idea of what I get in digitalizing vinyls, here are a few links. OK - you have the one exception to the rule there. That's tough luck. Just about any external sound card will do if this is the job it is doing, Assuming that you would like it to carry on doing useful work later. something like the M-Audio Transit would do the job nicely. d |
#5
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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digitalizing vinyl records
"Bernard" a écrit dans le message de news:
... Thanks to Everyone for your input. Hi to Everyone, I am looking for an usb audio interface that would give good results in digitilizing vinyls. Using my original sound card give results that are rather poor in quality. I read somewhere that I ought to have a usb audio interface. Could someone tell of his/her own experience on a specific interface for that purpose ? ================================================== =========== I used to digitilize vinyl records as I have described here : http://www.a-reny.com/iexplorer/restauration.html But as time changes, one gets a new computer with an horrible internal sound card which automatically compresses when recording. (Asus : keep away from it) My perfect old sound cards don't fit in the new PCI slots of new computer motherboards. So I got a little box which is a "Terratec PreAmp IVinyl" Just plug in your moving coil turntable and the output is USB. This preamp is an RIAA preamp and works perfect without any hum or noise. Quite a satisfaction and cheap. (Don't remember the price) -- Allen RENY www.a-reny.com |
#6
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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digitalizing vinyl records
On 6/24/2009 9:39 AM Buzz spake thus:
So I got a little box which is a "Terratec PreAmp IVinyl" Just plug in your moving coil turntable and the output is USB. Should be "moving magnet", no? Not many of us have them expen$ive moving-coil cartridges. (And of course MC requires different equalization from MM.) -- Found--the gene that causes belief in genetic determinism |
#7
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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digitalizing vinyl records
"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message s.com... On 6/24/2009 9:39 AM Buzz spake thus: So I got a little box which is a "Terratec PreAmp IVinyl" Just plug in your moving coil turntable and the output is USB. Should be "moving magnet", no? Not many of us have them expen$ive moving-coil cartridges. (And of course MC requires different equalization from MM.) It doesn't! The equalisation is identical for MM or MCs. The gain needs are different, as most MCs are significantly lower output than MMs, but there are plenty of MCs with similar levels of output to MMs. S. -- http://audiopages.googlepages.com |
#8
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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digitalizing vinyl records
On Jun 24, 1:07*pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 6/24/2009 9:39 AM Buzz spake thus: So I got a little box which is a "Terratec PreAmp IVinyl" Just plug in your moving coil turntable and the output is USB. Should be "moving magnet", no? Save the difference in signal level and impedance, they're the same. Not many of us have them expen$ive moving-coil cartridges. (And of course MC requires different equalization from MM.) And, of course, it does not. Both are velocity devices, and the RIAA portion is always there, regardless. |
#9
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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digitalizing vinyl records
David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 6/24/2009 9:39 AM Buzz spake thus: So I got a little box which is a "Terratec PreAmp IVinyl" Just plug in your moving coil turntable and the output is USB. Should be "moving magnet", no? Not many of us have them expen$ive moving-coil cartridges. (And of course MC requires different equalization from MM.) No it doesn't - the RIAA curve is a factnor of the LP. Nothing to do with the type of cartridge. An MC cartridge will require a different sensitivity preamp, or a transformer. geoff |
#10
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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digitalizing vinyl records
"Don Pearce" wrote ...
Bernard wrote: I am looking for an usb audio interface that would give good results in digitilizing vinyls. Using my original sound card give results that are rather poor in quality. I read somewhere that I ought to have a usb audio interface. Could someone tell of his/her own experience on a specific interface for that purpose ? There is not a single sound card available today that could possibly adversely affect the quality of a vinyl recording. They are all, without exception, orders of magnitude better than any vinyl record. Indeed, the specs (and likely real-world performance) in the areas of frequency response, flatness, distortion, etc. are ever so much better than any vinyl recording. However many (most?) internal sound cards, particularly the ones built into the mother-board, typically suffer from poor SNR because of the hostile digital hash internal to the computer case. This is likely the reason for the recommendation for external ("USB") A/D conversion. |
#11
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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digitalizing vinyl records
"Richard Crowley" wrote in message ... However many (most?) internal sound cards, particularly the ones built into the mother-board, typically suffer from poor SNR because of the hostile digital hash internal to the computer case. This is likely the reason for the recommendation for external ("USB") A/D conversion. In fact the best possible performance is from an internal PCI card, just ask Arny if you want to know which one :-) BTW, just because some motherboards have bad sound doesn't mean they ALL do. In general though it is simply a cheap addition as you would expect. Even a decade old 16 bit SoundBlaster or Audigy will do an adequate job on vinyl however. And you can pick them up in the trash these days. MrT. |
#12
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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digitalizing vinyl records
"Don Pearce" wrote in message news:4a47ef41.902389156@localhost... On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 17:02:53 +0200, Bernard wrote: I am looking for an usb audio interface that would give good results in digitilizing vinyls. Using my original sound card give results that are rather poor in quality. I read somewhere that I ought to have a usb audio interface. Could someone tell of his/her own experience on a specific interface for that purpose ? USB is one option, PCI card or firewire adapters also more than adequate. There is not a single sound card available today that could possibly adversely affect the quality of a vinyl recording. They are all, without exception, orders of magnitude better than any vinyl record. Pretty close, but there are still a few I wouldn't use. Are you by any chance trying to plug the pickup straight into the sound card? Or maybe he is using the microphone input? If so, you are missing a vital component - the phono preamplifier & de-emphasis unit. You will need this whatever sort of sound card you get. Nope, some USB boxes designed for the purpose have RIAA EQ built in. Maybe that's what he is after. MrT. |
#13
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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digitalizing vinyl records
On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 17:02:53 +0200, Bernard wrote:
Hi to Everyone, I am looking for an usb audio interface that would give good results in digitilizing vinyls. Using my original sound card give results that are rather poor in quality. I read somewhere that I ought to have a usb audio interface. Could someone tell of his/her own experience on a specific interface for that purpose ? How are they poor? noisy? EQ'd and overprocessed like the soundblaster live? When I digitized my albums, I used an outboard a/d (ackdac) and a sound card with an s/pdif input. |
#14
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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digitalizing vinyl records
"AZ Nomad" wrote in message ... How are they poor? noisy? EQ'd and overprocessed like the soundblaster live? The soundblaster live doesn't EQ or process at all if you record 16/48 and resample in software. It's quite adequate for vinyl, although you can get better for next to nothing, so I wouldn't personally bother with one these days. When I digitized my albums, I used an outboard a/d (ackdac) and a sound card with an s/pdif input. Good for you, but the records were still the limiting factor. MrT. |
#15
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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digitalizing vinyl records
On Wed, 24 Jun 2009 15:45:39 +1000, Mr.T MrT@home wrote:
"AZ Nomad" wrote in message ... How are they poor? noisy? EQ'd and overprocessed like the soundblaster live? The soundblaster live doesn't EQ or process at all if you record 16/48 and resample in software. It's quite adequate for vinyl, although you can get better for next to nothing, so I wouldn't personally bother with one these days. That's not my experience with it. Maybe they rewrote their firmware, but when I palyed around with them around '01 and '02, they did so much processing that the sound was little better than an FM radio. The line input went through no fewer than four mixers and each one reduced the s/n. Others have documented EQ, compression and resampling done wether you want it to or not. |
#16
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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digitalizing vinyl records
"AZ Nomad" wrote in message ... The soundblaster live doesn't EQ or process at all if you record 16/48 and resample in software. It's quite adequate for vinyl, although you can get better for next to nothing, so I wouldn't personally bother with one these days. That's not my experience with it. Maybe they rewrote their firmware, but when I palyed around with them around '01 and '02, they did so much processing that the sound was little better than an FM radio. The line input went through no fewer than four mixers and each one reduced the s/n. Others have documented EQ, compression and resampling done wether you want it to or not. Sure I've seen similar claims. I have made my own measurements though, and was quite confident in what the card *I* had could do, especially with non-factory drivers. There were so many versions however, I can't speak for them all. I use a MOTU Ultralite these days though, and an M-Audio card is in another computer :-) MrT. |
#17
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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digitalizing vinyl records
"AZ Nomad" wrote in message ... On Wed, 24 Jun 2009 15:45:39 +1000, Mr.T MrT@home wrote: "AZ Nomad" wrote in message ... How are they poor? noisy? EQ'd and overprocessed like the soundblaster live? The soundblaster live doesn't EQ or process at all if you record 16/48 and resample in software. It's quite adequate for vinyl, although you can get better for next to nothing, so I wouldn't personally bother with one these days. That's not my experience with it. Maybe they rewrote their firmware, They did. |
#18
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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digitalizing vinyl records
"Bernard" wrote in message news I am looking for an usb audio interface that would give good results in digitilizing vinyls. Using my original sound card give results that are rather poor in quality. I read somewhere that I ought to have a usb audio interface. Could someone tell of his/her own experience on a specific interface for that purpose ? Since you've given zero specific information, it is hard to make a meaningful response. Vinyl doesn't really take a magnificent audio interface to be digitized well. If money matters to you, try a Behringer uca 202. About $30 in many music and pro audio stores. If you have a little money to spend, try a eMu 0202. Musician's Friend is selling refurbs for about $80. If you have a lot of money to spend you could make a nice contribution to a charity... but otherwise one of the best audio interfaces around is still the LynxTwo, for about $800. |
#19
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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digitalizing vinyl records
On 6/23/2009 9:52 AM Arny Krueger spake thus:
"Bernard" wrote in message news I am looking for an usb audio interface that would give good results in digitilizing vinyls. Using my original sound card give results that are rather poor in quality. I read somewhere that I ought to have a usb audio interface. Could someone tell of his/her own experience on a specific interface for that purpose ? Since you've given zero specific information, it is hard to make a meaningful response. True that. Would be nice to know what kind of sound card gave results that were "poor in quality". Vinyl doesn't really take a magnificent audio interface to be digitized well. I have to disagree with that sweeping generalization. Without committing the sin of making another one, all I can say is that I have gotten results which are close to what I would call "magnificent" running my turntable through my sound card; the resulting CDs were pretty damn close to "CD quality". Results will vary all over the place, of course, depending on the quality of the vinyl being played, and the equipment being used to play it. With a good cartridge (a Signet in my case), a decent amplifier, and probably any modren sound card, good results are possible. Clicks and pops are easily edited out by hand. -- Found--the gene that causes belief in genetic determinism |
#20
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digitalizing vinyl records
On Tue, 23 Jun 2009, David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 6/23/2009 9:52 AM Arny Krueger spake thus: "Bernard" wrote in message news I am looking for an usb audio interface that would give good results in digitilizing vinyls. Using my original sound card give results that are rather poor in quality. I read somewhere that I ought to have a usb audio interface. Could someone tell of his/her own experience on a specific interface for that purpose ? Since you've given zero specific information, it is hard to make a meaningful response. True that. Would be nice to know what kind of sound card gave results that were "poor in quality". Vinyl doesn't really take a magnificent audio interface to be digitized well. I have to disagree with that sweeping generalization. Without committing the sin of making another one, all I can say is that I have gotten results which are close to what I would call "magnificent" running my turntable through my sound card; the resulting CDs were pretty damn close to "CD quality". Read what he said again. He said it doesn't take anything particularly special to do this. And he's right. The original poster may be having some other issue, like a bad ground (or a ground loop), or as somone suggested, no phono preamp. So he reads around, and discovers that some suggest a USB audio card. He shifts in that direction, not really grasping what's being said, so he comes here looking for details based on that premise. But he didn't read far enough along to know that the reason some might suggest a USB card is not because "they are better" but because it gets the analog circuitry away from the noisy computer, which may be a factor in some cases. Or he may be mislaid by those USB turntables, that are a mere convenience. Someone without a turntable has to buy one, so they might as well get one that has a built in phono preamp, and then the electronics to digitize the sound into a USB signal. Of course, those are what you pay for them, and I just saw one locally for a hundred dollars which isn't going to beat my 30 year old Lenco turntable with a Grado cartridge, going through some stereo receiver for the phono preamp and then into whatever sound card I have in my computer. Michael Results will vary all over the place, of course, depending on the quality of the vinyl being played, and the equipment being used to play it. With a good cartridge (a Signet in my case), a decent amplifier, and probably any modren sound card, good results are possible. Clicks and pops are easily edited out by hand. -- Found--the gene that causes belief in genetic determinism |
#21
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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digitalizing vinyl records
"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message s.com... Vinyl doesn't really take a magnificent audio interface to be digitized well. I have to disagree with that sweeping generalization. Without committing the sin of making another one, all I can say is that I have gotten results which are close to what I would call "magnificent" running my turntable through my sound card; the resulting CDs were pretty damn close to "CD quality". Results will vary all over the place, of course, depending on the quality of the vinyl being played, and the equipment being used to play it. With a good cartridge (a Signet in my case), a decent amplifier, and probably any modren sound card, good results are possible. You are actually in agreement. The Turntable, cartridge and especially record quality and cleanliness will matter *FAR* more than the soundcard these days. While a $20 soundcard will do the job, how many people buy a decent turntable & record cleaning machine that will have FAR more effect on the final result IME? Unfortunately they have a *FAR* higher price tag as well! MrT. |
#22
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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digitalizing vinyl records
On Jun 23, 11:02*am, Bernard wrote:
Hi to Everyone, I am looking for an usb audio interface that would give good results in digitilizing vinyls. Using my original sound card give results that are rather poor in quality. If you are going directly from the turntable output to your sound card input, you're almost guaranteed to have poor quality results. You'll have poor bass, screechy highs, probably low levels and lots of noise. That's because none of the inputs on pretty much ANY soundcard are not designed to properly handle the output of a tunrtable. Instead, you need to have an intermediate piece of equipment which provides all of the functions of a phono preamp, including matching, gain and proper equalization. You could use an existing receiver, preamplifier or integrated amplifier with a phone input and connect the tap outputs to your sound card. You could also go out and buy a dedicated phono preamp for as little as %50 to as high as one's insanity might allow one to pay for such a device. Once you have that in hand, you'll need to spend a little time playing with gains to optimize the signal levels, but from there you're good to go. I read somewhere that I ought to have a usb audio interface. A USB audio interface will do the job, but it is not necessary. A good sound card will be equally as useful. Could someone tell of his/her own experience on a specific interface for that purpose ? There is no "specific" interface for the job. You need a good quality turntable, a good quality phono preamp or system with a phono preamp, and you need a good-quality sound card or external analog-to-digotal converter to get the recording in to your computer. Many modern-day computers have quite audio inputs amd ,ay well be more than up to the task, given the rest of the equipment needed above, so you may not need an external USB (or fire-wire or whatever). That being said, I have two laptops he one is an IBM Thinkpad T22, the other is a newer Thinkpad T42. The audio converters, from the standpoint of input-output response, are much better in the older T22 than in the newer T42! Figure that out. |
#23
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digitalizing vinyl records
"Dick Pierce" wrote in message ... That being said, I have two laptops he one is an IBM Thinkpad T22, the other is a newer Thinkpad T42. The audio converters, from the standpoint of input-output response, are much better in the older T22 than in the newer T42! But I'd be surprised if you bothered using either of them to record anything! :-) MrT. |
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