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  #41   Report Post  
William Sommerwerck
 
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Default Denon vs Yamaha receiver

A rep came in to get us to carry Denon products. They were crappy
little compact systems. I verbally trashed him and sent him packing.


And how do you know that they were the only Denon's being offered?
They may have been simply what the rep thought Stansbury's was fit to
sell. I believe, at that time, they also had what most people
considered decent turntables. They had already sold the first PCM
digital recorder to pro studios and had been selling one of the most
renowned cartridges for years, the DL103, which I think is *still*
being marketed today. I have no idea what their product mix was in
1973, but I would be surprised if it didn't include the same sort of
mix (although probably downsized) than it did later on.


First of all, I don't believe Denon was selling professional PCM recorders to
anyone, anywhere in 1973 (TICBW). And although their turntables and pickups
might were no doubt popular in Japan, they were not then available in the US.

By the way, I didn't much care for the 103, because (like many pickups from many
companies) it has that broad "upper-midrange dip" that slightly deadens the
sound. Otherwise, I like MCs a lot.

Regardless...

This question is easily resolved without further argument. When did Denon start
exporting their products to the US? When were the first Denon audiophile
products reviewed in American audiophile magazines? I don't think it was before
1975 or 1976. Anyone know for sure?

Just to clarify a point... I did not state or mean to imply that, in 1973, Denon
made _only_ crap. They certainly didn't.

  #42   Report Post  
William Sommerwerck
 
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Default Denon vs Yamaha receiver

Willie Sommerdork said:

That is still quite because the guy is asking for opinions,
not what his preference should be.


No, he's asking us to tell him what to buy. He's looking to us as "experts"

to
give him the absolute truth so he can buy the "right" product.


How's that egomania problem coming, Willie?


You're the one who thinks it's a problem.

  #43   Report Post  
dave weil
 
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Default Denon vs Yamaha receiver

On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:49:57 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:

A rep came in to get us to carry Denon products. They were crappy
little compact systems. I verbally trashed him and sent him packing.


And how do you know that they were the only Denon's being offered?
They may have been simply what the rep thought Stansbury's was fit to
sell. I believe, at that time, they also had what most people
considered decent turntables. They had already sold the first PCM
digital recorder to pro studios and had been selling one of the most
renowned cartridges for years, the DL103, which I think is *still*
being marketed today. I have no idea what their product mix was in
1973, but I would be surprised if it didn't include the same sort of
mix (although probably downsized) than it did later on.


First of all, I don't believe Denon was selling professional PCM recorders to
anyone, anywhere in 1973 (TICBW).


Sure they were.

"1972 Developed the world's first PCM digital recorder for regular
studio use, thus launching the digital audio revolution. Commenced
sales of PCM records".

From their history site.

And although their turntables and pickups
might were no doubt popular in Japan, they were not then available in the US.


AFAIK, their pickups *were* available here prior to 1973.

By the way, I didn't much care for the 103, because (like many pickups from many
companies) it has that broad "upper-midrange dip" that slightly deadens the
sound. Otherwise, I like MCs a lot.


Fine. Noted. Irrelevant, but noted nontheless.

Regardless...

This question is easily resolved without further argument. When did Denon start
exporting their products to the US? When were the first Denon audiophile
products reviewed in American audiophile magazines? I don't think it was before
1975 or 1976. Anyone know for sure?


I couldn't tell you for sure. According to their history site, they
started making hi-fi gear in 1971.

Basically, you related a story based on your own limited knowledge. It
might very well have been true, but you have no way of knowing for
sure. In any case, they have offered a wide range of products over the
years, with them mostly being known for their higher end products. It
was only later that they seemed to make breakthroughs in lower end
stuff.

Just to clarify a point... I did not state or mean to imply that, in 1973, Denon
made _only_ crap. They certainly didn't.


I understood what you said and what you meant. That's why I responded
the way that I did. You haven't offered any backing except to say that
the rep offered you some mini-systems. As a former Denon rep, I know
that I tailored my presentation to the sort of products that I thought
matched the venue - I *never* offered *everything* to *everyone*. That
could have certainly happened in your case as well. hell, Denon now
sells dedicated products in Sears for god's sake (same receivers,
different product numbers). Sears only gets a couple of items
themselves.
  #44   Report Post  
Robert L. Bass
 
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Default Denon vs Yamaha receiver

Don't even THINK about buying anything
Yamaha. Get the Denon.


Rubbish.
If you want "opinion", listen to this poster.
If you want helpful advice, listen to everyone else.


Hmm. I only offer opinions. For the most part they're educated opinions
but they are still opinions. That said, in my opinion the gentleman is
wrong. I've owned and installed Denon and Yamaha equipment and I find
Yamaha to be superior. My Yamaha RXV3000 is, for the money, among the best
around.

Regards,
Robert

=============================
Bass Home Electronics, Inc
2291 Pine View Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34231
877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
941-925-9747 Fax
941-232-0791 Wireless
Nextel Private ID - 161*21755*1
http://www.bass-home.com
=============================


  #45   Report Post  
Robert L. Bass
 
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Default Denon vs Yamaha receiver

That is still quite because the guy is asking for
opinions, not what his preference should be.


No, he's asking us to tell him what to buy. He's
looking to us as "experts" to give him the
absolute truth so he can buy the "right" product.


That's why I hate being called an expert on anything. There are very few
absolute truths (other than Jesus being Lord). When it comes to what is
best I can only say that I've listened to this or that product and found it
pleasing for thus and such reasons. Audio is so subjective that there can
be no absolute best product.

Regards,
Robert

=============================
Bass Home Electronics, Inc
2291 Pine View Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34231
877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
941-925-9747 Fax
941-232-0791 Wireless
Nextel Private ID - 161*21755*1
http://www.bass-home.com
=============================




  #46   Report Post  
William Sommerwerck
 
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Default Denon vs Yamaha receiver

I understood what you said and what you meant. That's why I responded
the way that I did. You haven't offered any backing except to say that
the rep offered you some mini-systems. As a former Denon rep, I know
that I tailored my presentation to the sort of products that I thought
matched the venue - I *never* offered *everything* to *everyone*. That
could have certainly happened in your case as well. hell, Denon now
sells dedicated products in Sears for god's sake (same receivers,
different product numbers). Sears only gets a couple of items
themselves.


Thanks for the information and corrections.

Stansbury was a photo/hi-fi chain in Baltimore. We sold "good" audio
equipment -- Crown, Infinity, Bose (sorry about that), Shure, AR, KLH, etc.
There was no place in our store for the sort of junk the rep offered. He had
obviously not done his homework.

  #47   Report Post  
Andrew M.
 
Posts: n/a
Default Denon vs Yamaha receiver

There are NO absolute truths.

Robert L. Bass wrote:
That is still quite because the guy is asking for
opinions, not what his preference should be.


No, he's asking us to tell him what to buy. He's
looking to us as "experts" to give him the
absolute truth so he can buy the "right" product.



That's why I hate being called an expert on anything. There are very few
absolute truths (other than Jesus being Lord). When it comes to what is
best I can only say that I've listened to this or that product and found it
pleasing for thus and such reasons. Audio is so subjective that there can
be no absolute best product.

Regards,
Robert

=============================
Bass Home Electronics, Inc
2291 Pine View Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34231
877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
941-925-9747 Fax
941-232-0791 Wireless
Nextel Private ID - 161*21755*1
http://www.bass-home.com
=============================



  #48   Report Post  
dave weil
 
Posts: n/a
Default Denon vs Yamaha receiver

On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:26:46 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:

I understood what you said and what you meant. That's why I responded
the way that I did. You haven't offered any backing except to say that
the rep offered you some mini-systems. As a former Denon rep, I know
that I tailored my presentation to the sort of products that I thought
matched the venue - I *never* offered *everything* to *everyone*. That
could have certainly happened in your case as well. hell, Denon now
sells dedicated products in Sears for god's sake (same receivers,
different product numbers). Sears only gets a couple of items
themselves.


Thanks for the information and corrections.

Stansbury was a photo/hi-fi chain in Baltimore. We sold "good" audio
equipment -- Crown, Infinity, Bose (sorry about that), Shure, AR, KLH, etc.
There was no place in our store for the sort of junk the rep offered. He had
obviously not done his homework.


Apparently not.

However, note that I'm not saying that you are wrong in your statement
that that's all that Denon was offering, just that you are wrong in
assuming it, if you catch my drift. You could be correct, but I can't
find anything from that period that refers to the products that were
being imported. Denon certainly has *never* imported even *half* of
their line. A good portion stays in Japan, especially the *very* high
dollar stuff.

I'm merely speaking based on my knowledge of the Denon product mix
from the 80s on, *and* knowing the culture of the company. For a long
time during the late 80s, they shied away from lower end products, at
least in terms of their marketing push. They've *always* hung their
hat on the "higher end" market and have stayed away from the sort of
wide product mix that even Yamaha has covered.
  #49   Report Post  
Arny Krueger
 
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Default Denon vs Yamaha receiver


"George M. Middius" wrote in message
...


Robert L. Bass said:

There are very few absolute truths (other than Jesus being Lord).


puke

Don't you have any common decency? Keep that garbage out of
newsgroups where regular people participate.


For the benefit of newbies, let me point out that Middius and his supporters
like Phillips, Weil, and Phillips think that the pedophile fantasies he's
posted on RAO on many occasions are good examples *decent* writing.


  #50   Report Post  
JBorg
 
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Default Denon vs Yamaha receiver

William Sommerwerck wrote:
I said




Jason Wong said:

I'm looking to upgrade to a new Pro Logic II receiver and am undecided
between the Denon AVR-1603 or the Yamaha HTR-5550. I can get both for
the same price of $400 CAN. I haven't been able to compare the two
yet as they are sold by separate dealers where I'm from. Just wanted
to get the audiophile's opinion on this one. Thanks!



That is still quite because the guy is asking for opinions,
not what his preference should be.




No, he's asking us to tell him what to buy.


That is still quite "quite".

He's telling us that he is undecided which to buy between Denon and
Yamaha because he hasn't been able to compare the two yet as they are
sold by separate dealers where he's from.


He's looking to us as "experts" to give him the absolute truth so he
can buy the "right" product.


Now that is really quite "quite".

He's looking to us as "audiophiles" to get an audiophile's opinion so he can,
perhaps, set his priorities or needs in drawing his own preferences.

Mind you, do you think that you are an "expert" in giving him the
"Absolute Truth" about his prefernces and what would sound good to him?


  #51   Report Post  
William Sommerwerck
 
Posts: n/a
Default Denon vs Yamaha receiver

However, note that I'm not saying that you are wrong in your statement
that that's all that Denon was offering, just that you are wrong in
assuming it, if you catch my drift. You could be correct, but I can't
find anything from that period that refers to the products that were
being imported. Denon certainly has *never* imported even *half* of
their line. A good portion stays in Japan, especially the *very* high
dollar stuff.


I'm merely speaking based on my knowledge of the Denon product mix
from the 80s on, *and* knowing the culture of the company. For a long
time during the late 80s, they shied away from lower end products, at
least in terms of their marketing push. They've *always* hung their
hat on the "higher end" market and have stayed away from the sort of
wide product mix that even Yamaha has covered.


Agreed on every point.

I don't remember "good" Denon stuff until the mid and late '70s. A search of
Audio and other hi-fi mags of that era would resolve the question, but I don't
have them at hand.

  #52   Report Post  
William Sommerwerck
 
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Default Denon vs Yamaha receiver

I apologize for mis-remembering what I read.

The question could have been a bit more "specific," but it was NOT a vague
"which is best" question, which I detest. Sorry about that.

I should point out, however, that it's unlikely anyone in this group has had
direct experience with inexpensive AV receivers. Opinions are more likely to be
based on general impressions of Denon and Yamaha, or experiences with _other_
Denon and Yamaha products.


I'm looking to upgrade to a new Pro Logic II receiver and am undecided
between the Denon AVR-1603 or the Yamaha HTR-5550. I can get both
for the same price of $400 CAN. I haven't been able to compare the two
yet as they are sold by separate dealers where I'm from. Just wanted
to get the audiophile's opinion on this one. Thanks!


  #53   Report Post  
Espen Braathen
 
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Default Denon vs Yamaha receiver


"hawke" wrote in message
...

I have found the Yamaha line to be exceptional once you get above a

certain
price point. Their RX-V3000, 3300, V1, and Z1 receivers offer excceptional
quality. The new Z9 set to be released any day now offers high-performance
burr-brown 24-bit DACs for all 11 channels. While it lacks DVI switching,

it
all but eclipses separates in its price class in terms of quality and
feature set.


The Z9 is FINALLY going to be a worthy contender since they now have adopted
THX.


Espen B



  #54   Report Post  
Rob Adelman
 
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Default Denon vs Yamaha receiver

geeez guys, it's just a receiver for crying out loud..


  #55   Report Post  
Leadfoot
 
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Default Denon vs Yamaha receiver


"Jason Wong" wrote in message
om...
Okay everyone, I thought I might put an end to this "heated" debate by
saying that I bought the Denon AVR-1603 yesterday. My choice was
relatively simple; unfortunately I wasn't able to sample both at the
same time, because they were being sold by separate dealers. But the
dealer selling the Denon was able to give me $100 trade-in for my
Pioneer dolby digital (non pro-logic II, non DTS), so I got the Denon
for $400 CAN. I got the dealer to showcase the receiver with the same
Paradigm Titan fronts that I currently own, and a CC-170 centre which
I also eventually bought! Unfortunately the Yamaha dealer didn't have
Paradigm speakers and their store and wouldn't offer me a tradein, so
I never even got to test the unit out. In the end I think I got a
steal because the 1603 was already marked down significantly because
they were the last two units in the store. They said once they were
gone, they'd get teh 1604s in which would sell back at regular price
of around $650.

So far I'm quite happy with the Denon. Finally listening to the DTS
surround tracks on my DVDs makes a world of a difference.
Unfortunately the numbers on the remote don't work in VCR mode, which
is a shame because I use my VCR like a cable box to extend the limited
channel range on my old TV. Oh well, I guess that means I'll have to
upgrade my TV soon!

Thanks for all the "opinions" strewn about in this thread. They
were.... insightful. ;-)


But useless in making your decision



-- Jason





  #56   Report Post  
The Mad Doctor
 
Posts: n/a
Default Denon vs Yamaha receiver

On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:39:44 +0200, "Espen Braathen"
wrote:


"hawke" wrote in message
m...

I have found the Yamaha line to be exceptional once you get above a

certain
price point. Their RX-V3000, 3300, V1, and Z1 receivers offer excceptional
quality. The new Z9 set to be released any day now offers high-performance
burr-brown 24-bit DACs for all 11 channels. While it lacks DVI switching,

it
all but eclipses separates in its price class in terms of quality and
feature set.


The Z9 is FINALLY going to be a worthy contender since they now have adopted
THX.


THX is no guarantee of worthiness, but is often a guarantee of a
licensing fee to increase the cost of a piece of equipment.

the Z9 is certainly a nice looking unit, and would be equally nice
without the THX stamp on the front

Grant Kinsley MD


Espen B



  #57   Report Post  
Abyssmal
 
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Default Denon vs Yamaha receiver

On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 17:32:21 -0500, Rob Adelman
wrote:

geeez guys, it's just a receiver for crying out loud..



No doubt. For the record, I have had a Yamaha RX-V590
reciever for about 5-6 years now, and it plays back both stereo and
surround recordings pretty well.

I have heard better recievers, but they usually cost a lot more than
the $500 I paid for the Yamaha.

Randall
  #58   Report Post  
JBorg
 
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Default Denon vs Yamaha receiver

William Sommerwerck wrote:



I apologize for mis-remembering what I read.


... Sorry about that.













You're excused.
  #59   Report Post  
Robert L. Bass
 
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Default Denon vs Yamaha receiver

There are NO absolute truths.

I used to think that was true, too. Then one day I met Someone who changed
my point of view.


  #60   Report Post  
Jason Wong
 
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Default Denon vs Yamaha receiver

"Leadfoot" wrote in message news:S1pcb.1582$hp5.655@fed1read04...

But useless in making your decision


Oh absolutely! I mean comeon guys, who CARES what Denon did in the
1970s!!!! Does that all matter, especially considering my original
post asked for opinions over one Denon model vs a Yamaha one? I
hardly think Denons rep back in the "late 70s and early 80s" has
anything to do with the AVR-1603. I don't know how a simple question
from a first-time poster could have ballooned into one hell of a large
thread, but it seems like some of you guys need to find a better
outlet to vent your argumentative and petty nature than wasting space
in the newsgroups. Save yourselves the time typing, you'll thank me
later when you avoid getting carpal tunnel syndrome.


  #61   Report Post  
Robert L. Bass
 
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Default Denon vs Yamaha receiver

Oh absolutely! I mean comeon guys, who CARES
what Denon did in the 1970s!!!! Does that all matter,
especially considering my original post asked for
opinions over one Denon model vs a Yamaha one?


Welcome to USENET. :^)


  #62   Report Post  
George
 
Posts: n/a
Default Denon vs Yamaha receiver

In article ,
"Robert L. Bass" wrote:

Oh absolutely! I mean comeon guys, who CARES
what Denon did in the 1970s!!!! Does that all matter,
especially considering my original post asked for
opinions over one Denon model vs a Yamaha one?


Welcome to USENET. :^)


cross posting is never a good thing
george
  #63   Report Post  
Leadfoot
 
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Default Denon vs Yamaha receiver


"Jason Wong" wrote in message
om...
"Leadfoot" wrote in message

news:S1pcb.1582$hp5.655@fed1read04...

But useless in making your decision


Oh absolutely! I mean comeon guys, who CARES what Denon did in the
1970s!!!! Does that all matter, especially considering my original
post asked for opinions over one Denon model vs a Yamaha one? I
hardly think Denons rep back in the "late 70s and early 80s" has
anything to do with the AVR-1603. I don't know how a simple question
from a first-time poster could have ballooned into one hell of a large
thread, but it seems like some of you guys need to find a better
outlet to vent your argumentative and petty nature than wasting space
in the newsgroups. Save yourselves the time typing, you'll thank me
later when you avoid getting carpal tunnel syndrome.


Take 1

This audiophile says Denons have better base and Yamahas have better
surround processors.

But if you wait until you can up your budget by, ahem, 100%, you can
get the best of both worlds with inexpensive separates. Plus a few
more cables, of course


Take 2

I'm not an audiophile, per se, but from what I've read, heard and
experienced, George is spot on about Denons producing a better bass sound
and Yamaha being the better sound processor. At that price range, you
should go for the Yamaha because it sounds like you'd probably have
lower-end speakers that won't handle bass too well anyhow, so might as well
go for the better overall sound.

Take 3

I have a Yamaha 5550, and love it to bits. It's my first system, and I was
working to a budget (no sub) but it's great for the money.

Having quickly looked at the Denon specs (and obviously exhibting bias
here), if it bothers you, neither amp has true 6.1 outputs, but while the
Denon doesn't appear to have any 6.1 capability, the 5550 can handle 6.1
inputs by converting them to 5.1 and using a 'virtual' 6th speaker (which
basically means output from the two rear surrounds). It's not ideal, but it
does work surprisingly well

My DVD player only had coaxial output, and after being initially concerned,
I found this isn't something to worry about at all. Yes it has coaxial
input, but not for the default DVD channel. I think the default coaxial
input is CD. However, it's *very* easy to reconfigure the input labels in
the menu system so that the DVD signal is read from the coaxial input. The
manual tells you how to do it.

The remote is good, though how compatible you can make it with your other
equipment will depend upon the make of equipment. It works brilliantly with
my Sony DVD, but not at all with my, ahem, Schneider TV.

Matrix 6.1, changing inputs, and remote configuration are all in the manual.

Take 4

1) The specs for this Denon say 80W per channel, and the Yamaha 75W.
Does this translate into a large difference?


It translates into no difference.

Take 5

1) The specs for this Denon say 80W per channel, and the Yamaha 75W.
Does this translate into a large difference?


Not at all.


2) Does this Yamaha have no coaxial audio input for DVD? It appears to
only have one for CD, and optical input for DVD only. I wonder if that
makes me screwed because my DVD player has no optical audio output.


Why worry about having two optical players?

Take 6

I auditioned Denon, Yamaha, Sony and Marantz before I decided on the
Yamaha receiver for my home surround system. It sounded as good as units
costing 4 times as much. It also has pre amp outs for all channels so I
can bypass the Yamaha power amp. It has a very comprehensive feature set
AND you can disable the DSP processing. Feature for feature I think that
a $400-500 Yamaha is the way to go. Go to a Hi Fi store and audition
them through the same set of speakers.

Take 7

Don't even THINK about buying anything Yamaha. Get the Denon

Note: this isn't an opinion supported by anything the author wanted to add

Take 8

Because Yamaha has a terrible reputation. Few Yamaha products have ever
gotten
favorable reviews in the American audiophile magazines, whereas Denon and
Onkyo
products commonly do. Some of the worst-sounding surround products I
reviewed
for Stereophile were Yamaha

Take 9

Wow, talk about praising with faint damns.

Of the two units named, the original poster should buy the one
which has the most features he wants. Since he specifically mentioned
that he's interested in Pro Logic II, one thing to check into is
the configurability of the Pro Logic II mode. It's not price-correlated.
I have a Yammy 5540 and a Harmon Kardon AVR520; the latter cost
several hundred more than the former, and has more features and power, but
happens to be *less* configurable in DPL II made than the Yammy. The Yammies
allow you to adjust 'panorama' and a few other
user-configurable features of DPL II , whereas the H-K has
a 'fixed' DPL II config. Don't know about the Denon

Take 10

Hmm. I only offer opinions. For the most part they're educated opinions
but they are still opinions. That said, in my opinion the gentleman is
wrong. I've owned and installed Denon and Yamaha equipment and I find
Yamaha to be superior. My Yamaha RXV3000 is, for the money, among the best
around.


Take 11

No offense, but blanket statements like that are just plain bad advice.

I understand you may have had some bad listening experiences with Yamaha 25
years ago, but the company has changed its product line just a little bit
since then. I'm a fan of free speech, and you can continue saying whatever
you like. But to write off an entire company is something that everyone here
should take with a grain of salt - a very small grain.

I have found the Yamaha line to be exceptional once you get above a certain
price point. Their RX-V3000, 3300, V1, and Z1 receivers offer excceptional
quality. The new Z9 set to be released any day now offers high-performance
burr-brown 24-bit DACs for all 11 channels. While it lacks DVI switching, it
all but eclipses separates in its price class in terms of quality and
feature set.

I can also say the same for the Denon 5803.

As for your price point. Give them both a listen if you can, and see if you
like to listen to DSP when you watch movies. If you do, then the Yamaha will
have an edge. If you tastes are for mostly music, the Denon may sound better
to you.

end of takes



After weeding out the chaff you had 11 good takes on your question which
seemed to be in the Yamaha's favor slightly. However your decision was made
based on this statement.

"Unfortunately the Yamaha dealer didn't have Paradigm speakers and their
store and wouldn't offer me a tradein, so I never even got to test the unit
out."

It appears you made your decision primarily on price and (maybe) the Yamaha
dealers lack of foresight in having demo speakers that matched your own.

As it is I have a Ymaha RX-V630 I'm very happy with. I didn't weigh on this
topic because I haven't played with a denon receiver.

Denon was in the running when I decided to upgrade I just found they were
just a little too expensive vs the yamaha I was comparing them too










  #64   Report Post  
Arny Krueger
 
Posts: n/a
Default Denon vs Yamaha receiver


"Andrew M." wrote in message
...

There are NO absolute truths.


In some abstract philosophical sense within the limits of human knowledge,
that's probably true. However, if you try to live your life that way, you're
headed for all kinds of trouble.

Are Newton's laws of motion absolutely true? No, there's always relativistic
mechanics. However for virtually everything you build that people use on a
day-to-day basis, you better treat Newton's laws of motion as if they were
absolute truth, or your work will be a disaster of one kind or the other.



  #65   Report Post  
Andrew M.
 
Posts: n/a
Default Denon vs Yamaha receiver

I am just responding to the ridiculous JESUS reference made here. Go
thump your bible in the bible thumping forum. There are many people here
that are not christian who find your remarks offensive.

Arny Krueger wrote:

"Andrew M." wrote in message
...


There are NO absolute truths.



In some abstract philosophical sense within the limits of human knowledge,
that's probably true. However, if you try to live your life that way, you're
headed for all kinds of trouble.

Are Newton's laws of motion absolutely true? No, there's always relativistic
mechanics. However for virtually everything you build that people use on a
day-to-day basis, you better treat Newton's laws of motion as if they were
absolute truth, or your work will be a disaster of one kind or the other.






  #66   Report Post  
Arny Krueger
 
Posts: n/a
Default Denon vs Yamaha receiver


"Andrew M." wrote in message
...

I am just responding to the ridiculous JESUS reference made here.


I am just responding to the rotten logic embedded in your hostile,
hysterical bigoted response, Andrew.

Go thump your bible in the bible thumping forum.


Did I mention the bible in this thread? No! Andrew, are you delusional or
what?

There are many people here
that are not Christian who find your remarks offensive.


My remarks in this thread were entirely non-Christian.

But the idea that Christian ideas would be offensive speaks to the
narrow-mindedness and intolerance we find with certain hysterical rabid
anti-Christian people.

For the record, I'm a Christian, but I intentionally left my beliefs out of
this discussion because I saw an opportunity to make a larger point. That
larger point is that people who are rabid anti-Christians like Middius and
"Andrew" are not the paragons of logic that they would like to think. In
fact they are just narrow-minded bigots whose alleged logic is often about
as bad as it gets. Their operative mind set appears to be hysteria.

Arny Krueger wrote:

"Andrew M." wrote in message
...


There are NO absolute truths.


In some abstract philosophical sense within the limits of human

knowledge,
that's probably true. However, if you try to live your life that way,

you're
headed for all kinds of trouble.

Are Newton's laws of motion absolutely true? No, there's always

relativistic
mechanics. However for virtually everything you build that people use on

a
day-to-day basis, you better treat Newton's laws of motion as if they

were
absolute truth, or your work will be a disaster of one kind or the

other.






  #67   Report Post  
badger
 
Posts: n/a
Default Denon vs Yamaha receiver

2+2=4?

--


There are 10 kinds of people in the world:
Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US!
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

"Andrew M." wrote in message
...

There are NO absolute truths.


In some abstract philosophical sense within the limits of human knowledge,
that's probably true. However, if you try to live your life that way,

you're
headed for all kinds of trouble.

Are Newton's laws of motion absolutely true? No, there's always

relativistic
mechanics. However for virtually everything you build that people use on a
day-to-day basis, you better treat Newton's laws of motion as if they were
absolute truth, or your work will be a disaster of one kind or the other.





  #68   Report Post  
badger
 
Posts: n/a
Default Denon vs Yamaha receiver

Hey guys, do you like the Denon or the Yamaha?
Clay

--


There are 10 kinds of people in the world:
Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US!
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

"Andrew M." wrote in message
...

I am just responding to the ridiculous JESUS reference made here.


I am just responding to the rotten logic embedded in your hostile,
hysterical bigoted response, Andrew.

Go thump your bible in the bible thumping forum.


Did I mention the bible in this thread? No! Andrew, are you delusional or
what?

There are many people here
that are not Christian who find your remarks offensive.


My remarks in this thread were entirely non-Christian.

But the idea that Christian ideas would be offensive speaks to the
narrow-mindedness and intolerance we find with certain hysterical rabid
anti-Christian people.

For the record, I'm a Christian, but I intentionally left my beliefs out

of
this discussion because I saw an opportunity to make a larger point. That
larger point is that people who are rabid anti-Christians like Middius and
"Andrew" are not the paragons of logic that they would like to think. In
fact they are just narrow-minded bigots whose alleged logic is often about
as bad as it gets. Their operative mind set appears to be hysteria.

Arny Krueger wrote:

"Andrew M." wrote in message
...


There are NO absolute truths.


In some abstract philosophical sense within the limits of human

knowledge,
that's probably true. However, if you try to live your life that way,

you're
headed for all kinds of trouble.

Are Newton's laws of motion absolutely true? No, there's always

relativistic
mechanics. However for virtually everything you build that people use

on
a
day-to-day basis, you better treat Newton's laws of motion as if they

were
absolute truth, or your work will be a disaster of one kind or the

other.








  #69   Report Post  
Andrew M.
 
Posts: n/a
Default Denon vs Yamaha receiver

Maybe you didn't say it but someone did. Any reference to Jesus is a
reference to that work of fiction called the bible...Go tout it
somewhere else. Welcome back to the crusades...Keep your fairy tale
religion to your self.

Arny Krueger wrote:
"Andrew M." wrote in message
...


I am just responding to the ridiculous JESUS reference made here.



I am just responding to the rotten logic embedded in your hostile,
hysterical bigoted response, Andrew.


Go thump your bible in the bible thumping forum.



Did I mention the bible in this thread? No! Andrew, are you delusional or
what?


There are many people here
that are not Christian who find your remarks offensive.



My remarks in this thread were entirely non-Christian.

But the idea that Christian ideas would be offensive speaks to the
narrow-mindedness and intolerance we find with certain hysterical rabid
anti-Christian people.

For the record, I'm a Christian, but I intentionally left my beliefs out of
this discussion because I saw an opportunity to make a larger point. That
larger point is that people who are rabid anti-Christians like Middius and
"Andrew" are not the paragons of logic that they would like to think. In
fact they are just narrow-minded bigots whose alleged logic is often about
as bad as it gets. Their operative mind set appears to be hysteria.


Arny Krueger wrote:


"Andrew M." wrote in message
.. .



There are NO absolute truths.



In some abstract philosophical sense within the limits of human


knowledge,

that's probably true. However, if you try to live your life that way,


you're

headed for all kinds of trouble.

Are Newton's laws of motion absolutely true? No, there's always


relativistic

mechanics. However for virtually everything you build that people use on


a

day-to-day basis, you better treat Newton's laws of motion as if they


were

absolute truth, or your work will be a disaster of one kind or the


other.






  #70   Report Post  
Arny Krueger
 
Posts: n/a
Default Denon vs Yamaha receiver


"Andrew M." wrote in message
...

Maybe you didn't say it but someone did.


Speaks to your vague connection with reality, Andrew.


Any reference to Jesus is a
reference to that work of fiction called the bible...Go tout it
somewhere else.


Shows your bigotry and hysterical state of mind, Andrew. People mention
various written works of opinion, fact, theory, poetry, stories,
prognostication, you name it; all the time and as a rule nobody goes
ballistic.

OTOH if someone should be so brave as to mention the Bible in public, it's
not uncommon for some pathetic hysterical Christian-hating bigot to fly off
the handle and say all sorts of crazy things. I suggest Andrew that you
recognize that at the very least the Bible is just another written work of
opinion, fact, theory, poetry, stories, prognostication, you name it, and
get on with the rest of your life.

Welcome back to the crusades...


Anybody who understands history knows that Christianity was a pretext for
the Crusades, not the cause. But again given your demonstrated level of
hysteria and unreason Andrew, this is probably a news flash to you.

Keep your fairy tale religion to your self.


Everybody seems to have a belief system that is partially based on reliable
facts, partially based on questionable beliefs, and mostly composed of
things that are someplace in-between. One advantage to making up your own
religion and keeping it a secret is that it's impossible for people to
accuse you of being inconsistent. We've already got people like Phillips,
Singh, Middius, and Graham who have played this card for years. Welcome to
their sorry club! You can start posting your pedophile fantasies like they
do, any time!

Tell you what Andrew, you say what you will about your belief system and I
promise to not try to attack and trash your freedom of speech like you've
tried to attack and trash mine. Or, for plan B, you could try to repeal the
Constitution of the United States of America, Article One. Probably more to
the point, you should find a good psychiatrist, explain your feelings of
panic and hysteria to him, and obtain an appropriate medication.

Arny Krueger wrote:
"Andrew M." wrote in message
...


I am just responding to the ridiculous JESUS reference made here.



I am just responding to the rotten logic embedded in your hostile,
hysterical bigoted response, Andrew.


Go thump your bible in the bible thumping forum.



Did I mention the bible in this thread? No! Andrew, are you delusional

or
what?


There are many people here
that are not Christian who find your remarks offensive.



My remarks in this thread were entirely non-Christian.

But the idea that Christian ideas would be offensive speaks to the
narrow-mindedness and intolerance we find with certain hysterical rabid
anti-Christian people.

For the record, I'm a Christian, but I intentionally left my beliefs out

of
this discussion because I saw an opportunity to make a larger point.

That
larger point is that people who are rabid anti-Christians like Middius

and
"Andrew" are not the paragons of logic that they would like to think. In
fact they are just narrow-minded bigots whose alleged logic is often

about
as bad as it gets. Their operative mind set appears to be hysteria.


Arny Krueger wrote:


"Andrew M." wrote in message
.. .



There are NO absolute truths.



In some abstract philosophical sense within the limits of human


knowledge,

that's probably true. However, if you try to live your life that way,


you're

headed for all kinds of trouble.

Are Newton's laws of motion absolutely true? No, there's always


relativistic

mechanics. However for virtually everything you build that people use

on

a

day-to-day basis, you better treat Newton's laws of motion as if they


were

absolute truth, or your work will be a disaster of one kind or the


other.










  #71   Report Post  
Arny Krueger
 
Posts: n/a
Default Denon vs Yamaha receiver


"badger" cferriola@1remove numbers2triad.rr.com wrote in message
...
2+2=4?

--


There are 10 kinds of people in the world:
Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US!


LOL!

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

"Andrew M." wrote in message
...

There are NO absolute truths.


In some abstract philosophical sense within the limits of human

knowledge,
that's probably true. However, if you try to live your life that way,

you're
headed for all kinds of trouble.

Are Newton's laws of motion absolutely true? No, there's always

relativistic
mechanics. However for virtually everything you build that people use on

a
day-to-day basis, you better treat Newton's laws of motion as if they

were
absolute truth, or your work will be a disaster of one kind or the

other.







  #72   Report Post  
Rob Adelman
 
Posts: n/a
Default Denon vs Yamaha receiver



Arny Krueger wrote:


In some abstract philosophical sense within the limits of human knowledge,
that's probably true. However, if you try to live your life that way, you're
headed for all kinds of trouble.

Are Newton's laws of motion absolutely true? No, there's always relativistic
mechanics. However for virtually everything you build that people use on a
day-to-day basis, you better treat Newton's laws of motion as if they were
absolute truth, or your work will be a disaster of one kind or the other.


But Newton's laws can be recreated and verified.

  #73   Report Post  
trotsky
 
Posts: n/a
Default Denon vs Yamaha receiver

Arny Krueger wrote:

"Andrew M." wrote in message
...


I am just responding to the ridiculous JESUS reference made here.



I am just responding to the rotten logic embedded in your hostile,
hysterical bigoted response, Andrew.


Go thump your bible in the bible thumping forum.



Did I mention the bible in this thread? No! Andrew, are you delusional or
what?


There are many people here
that are not Christian who find your remarks offensive.



My remarks in this thread were entirely non-Christian.

But the idea that Christian ideas would be offensive speaks to the
narrow-mindedness and intolerance we find with certain hysterical rabid
anti-Christian people.

For the record, I'm a Christian,




LOL!

  #74   Report Post  
Arny Krueger
 
Posts: n/a
Default Denon vs Yamaha receiver

"Rob Adelman" wrote in message


Arny Krueger wrote:


In some abstract philosophical sense within the limits of human
knowledge, that's probably true. However, if you try to live your
life that way, you're headed for all kinds of trouble.


Are Newton's laws of motion absolutely true? No, there's always
relativistic mechanics. However for virtually everything you build
that people use on a day-to-day basis, you better treat Newton's
laws of motion as if they were absolute truth, or your work will be
a disaster of one kind or the other.


But Newton's laws can be recreated and verified.


Exactly. So can relativistic motion.


  #75   Report Post  
brew ziggins
 
Posts: n/a
Default Denon vs Yamaha receiver

"Andrew M." wrote in message

There are NO absolute truths.


If this is true, then it contradicts itself.


--
submarines are lurking in my foggy ceiling
they keep me sleepless at night...


l bruce higgins ithaca new york
lbh2 at cornell dot edu


  #76   Report Post  
normanstrong
 
Posts: n/a
Default Denon vs Yamaha receiver


"badger" cferriola@1remove numbers2triad.rr.com wrote in message
...
Hey guys, do you like the Denon or the Yamaha?
Clay


I like both of them. My advice would be the expand the list to
include some cheaper, more capable receivers that also have a good
reputation, such as Panasonic. Then peruse the instruction manuals
which are usually posted on the manufacturer's web site. This will
tell you what features the receiver has and what's missing (possibly a
phono stage.) Then make your decision.

Remember, the manufacturer is only responsible for what it says on the
spec sheet. The difference between 75W and 80W is 5W--not nothing.

Norm Strong


  #77   Report Post  
Andrew M.
 
Posts: n/a
Default Denon vs Yamaha receiver

isn't that the point?

brew ziggins wrote:

"Andrew M." wrote in message



There are NO absolute truths.



If this is true, then it contradicts itself.



  #78   Report Post  
Arny Krueger
 
Posts: n/a
Default Denon vs Yamaha receiver

"Andrew M." wrote in message



brew ziggins wrote:

"Andrew M." wrote in message



There are NO absolute truths.



If this is true, then it contradicts itself.


isn't that the point?


Nice recovery from a dramatic logic slip and fall.

Trouble is, figuratively you fell and the recovery was just a cover-up for
your bad logic.


  #79   Report Post  
Andrew M.
 
Posts: n/a
Default Denon vs Yamaha receiver

thump thump thump....

Arny Krueger wrote:

"Andrew M." wrote in message




brew ziggins wrote:


"Andrew M." wrote in message


There are NO absolute truths.


If this is true, then it contradicts itself.



isn't that the point?



Nice recovery from a dramatic logic slip and fall.

Trouble is, figuratively you fell and the recovery was just a cover-up for
your bad logic.



  #80   Report Post  
Robert L. Bass
 
Posts: n/a
Default Denon vs Yamaha receiver

I am just responding to the ridiculous JESUS
reference made here. Go thump your bible in
the bible thumping forum. There are many
people here that are not christian who find your
remarks offensive.


FTR, you are responding to Arny. He didn't thump anything. The comment
about Jesus was in my post.

One of the nice things about unmoderated USENET newsgroups is the freedom of
expression which we all enjoy. As long as the message is on topic, side
comments about unrelated matters are perfectly acceptable. Thus you have
just as much freedom (and not any more) to object to my side comment about
my beliefs as I have to make the comment in the first place.

This is developing into an off-topic meta thread, something most people
consider more destructive than any off-topic, 8-word comment within an
on-topic post. That often happens when anyone mentions an issue that
touches the hearts or consciences of others.

C'est la USENET


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