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#41
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
A rep came in to get us to carry Denon products. They were crappy
little compact systems. I verbally trashed him and sent him packing. And how do you know that they were the only Denon's being offered? They may have been simply what the rep thought Stansbury's was fit to sell. I believe, at that time, they also had what most people considered decent turntables. They had already sold the first PCM digital recorder to pro studios and had been selling one of the most renowned cartridges for years, the DL103, which I think is *still* being marketed today. I have no idea what their product mix was in 1973, but I would be surprised if it didn't include the same sort of mix (although probably downsized) than it did later on. First of all, I don't believe Denon was selling professional PCM recorders to anyone, anywhere in 1973 (TICBW). And although their turntables and pickups might were no doubt popular in Japan, they were not then available in the US. By the way, I didn't much care for the 103, because (like many pickups from many companies) it has that broad "upper-midrange dip" that slightly deadens the sound. Otherwise, I like MCs a lot. Regardless... This question is easily resolved without further argument. When did Denon start exporting their products to the US? When were the first Denon audiophile products reviewed in American audiophile magazines? I don't think it was before 1975 or 1976. Anyone know for sure? Just to clarify a point... I did not state or mean to imply that, in 1973, Denon made _only_ crap. They certainly didn't. |
#42
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
Willie Sommerdork said:
That is still quite because the guy is asking for opinions, not what his preference should be. No, he's asking us to tell him what to buy. He's looking to us as "experts" to give him the absolute truth so he can buy the "right" product. How's that egomania problem coming, Willie? You're the one who thinks it's a problem. |
#43
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:49:57 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote: A rep came in to get us to carry Denon products. They were crappy little compact systems. I verbally trashed him and sent him packing. And how do you know that they were the only Denon's being offered? They may have been simply what the rep thought Stansbury's was fit to sell. I believe, at that time, they also had what most people considered decent turntables. They had already sold the first PCM digital recorder to pro studios and had been selling one of the most renowned cartridges for years, the DL103, which I think is *still* being marketed today. I have no idea what their product mix was in 1973, but I would be surprised if it didn't include the same sort of mix (although probably downsized) than it did later on. First of all, I don't believe Denon was selling professional PCM recorders to anyone, anywhere in 1973 (TICBW). Sure they were. "1972 Developed the world's first PCM digital recorder for regular studio use, thus launching the digital audio revolution. Commenced sales of PCM records". From their history site. And although their turntables and pickups might were no doubt popular in Japan, they were not then available in the US. AFAIK, their pickups *were* available here prior to 1973. By the way, I didn't much care for the 103, because (like many pickups from many companies) it has that broad "upper-midrange dip" that slightly deadens the sound. Otherwise, I like MCs a lot. Fine. Noted. Irrelevant, but noted nontheless. Regardless... This question is easily resolved without further argument. When did Denon start exporting their products to the US? When were the first Denon audiophile products reviewed in American audiophile magazines? I don't think it was before 1975 or 1976. Anyone know for sure? I couldn't tell you for sure. According to their history site, they started making hi-fi gear in 1971. Basically, you related a story based on your own limited knowledge. It might very well have been true, but you have no way of knowing for sure. In any case, they have offered a wide range of products over the years, with them mostly being known for their higher end products. It was only later that they seemed to make breakthroughs in lower end stuff. Just to clarify a point... I did not state or mean to imply that, in 1973, Denon made _only_ crap. They certainly didn't. I understood what you said and what you meant. That's why I responded the way that I did. You haven't offered any backing except to say that the rep offered you some mini-systems. As a former Denon rep, I know that I tailored my presentation to the sort of products that I thought matched the venue - I *never* offered *everything* to *everyone*. That could have certainly happened in your case as well. hell, Denon now sells dedicated products in Sears for god's sake (same receivers, different product numbers). Sears only gets a couple of items themselves. |
#44
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
Don't even THINK about buying anything
Yamaha. Get the Denon. Rubbish. If you want "opinion", listen to this poster. If you want helpful advice, listen to everyone else. Hmm. I only offer opinions. For the most part they're educated opinions but they are still opinions. That said, in my opinion the gentleman is wrong. I've owned and installed Denon and Yamaha equipment and I find Yamaha to be superior. My Yamaha RXV3000 is, for the money, among the best around. Regards, Robert ============================= Bass Home Electronics, Inc 2291 Pine View Circle Sarasota · Florida · 34231 877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support 941-925-9747 Fax 941-232-0791 Wireless Nextel Private ID - 161*21755*1 http://www.bass-home.com ============================= |
#45
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
That is still quite because the guy is asking for
opinions, not what his preference should be. No, he's asking us to tell him what to buy. He's looking to us as "experts" to give him the absolute truth so he can buy the "right" product. That's why I hate being called an expert on anything. There are very few absolute truths (other than Jesus being Lord). When it comes to what is best I can only say that I've listened to this or that product and found it pleasing for thus and such reasons. Audio is so subjective that there can be no absolute best product. Regards, Robert ============================= Bass Home Electronics, Inc 2291 Pine View Circle Sarasota · Florida · 34231 877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support 941-925-9747 Fax 941-232-0791 Wireless Nextel Private ID - 161*21755*1 http://www.bass-home.com ============================= |
#46
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
I understood what you said and what you meant. That's why I responded
the way that I did. You haven't offered any backing except to say that the rep offered you some mini-systems. As a former Denon rep, I know that I tailored my presentation to the sort of products that I thought matched the venue - I *never* offered *everything* to *everyone*. That could have certainly happened in your case as well. hell, Denon now sells dedicated products in Sears for god's sake (same receivers, different product numbers). Sears only gets a couple of items themselves. Thanks for the information and corrections. Stansbury was a photo/hi-fi chain in Baltimore. We sold "good" audio equipment -- Crown, Infinity, Bose (sorry about that), Shure, AR, KLH, etc. There was no place in our store for the sort of junk the rep offered. He had obviously not done his homework. |
#47
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
There are NO absolute truths.
Robert L. Bass wrote: That is still quite because the guy is asking for opinions, not what his preference should be. No, he's asking us to tell him what to buy. He's looking to us as "experts" to give him the absolute truth so he can buy the "right" product. That's why I hate being called an expert on anything. There are very few absolute truths (other than Jesus being Lord). When it comes to what is best I can only say that I've listened to this or that product and found it pleasing for thus and such reasons. Audio is so subjective that there can be no absolute best product. Regards, Robert ============================= Bass Home Electronics, Inc 2291 Pine View Circle Sarasota · Florida · 34231 877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support 941-925-9747 Fax 941-232-0791 Wireless Nextel Private ID - 161*21755*1 http://www.bass-home.com ============================= |
#48
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:26:46 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote: I understood what you said and what you meant. That's why I responded the way that I did. You haven't offered any backing except to say that the rep offered you some mini-systems. As a former Denon rep, I know that I tailored my presentation to the sort of products that I thought matched the venue - I *never* offered *everything* to *everyone*. That could have certainly happened in your case as well. hell, Denon now sells dedicated products in Sears for god's sake (same receivers, different product numbers). Sears only gets a couple of items themselves. Thanks for the information and corrections. Stansbury was a photo/hi-fi chain in Baltimore. We sold "good" audio equipment -- Crown, Infinity, Bose (sorry about that), Shure, AR, KLH, etc. There was no place in our store for the sort of junk the rep offered. He had obviously not done his homework. Apparently not. However, note that I'm not saying that you are wrong in your statement that that's all that Denon was offering, just that you are wrong in assuming it, if you catch my drift. You could be correct, but I can't find anything from that period that refers to the products that were being imported. Denon certainly has *never* imported even *half* of their line. A good portion stays in Japan, especially the *very* high dollar stuff. I'm merely speaking based on my knowledge of the Denon product mix from the 80s on, *and* knowing the culture of the company. For a long time during the late 80s, they shied away from lower end products, at least in terms of their marketing push. They've *always* hung their hat on the "higher end" market and have stayed away from the sort of wide product mix that even Yamaha has covered. |
#49
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
"George M. Middius" wrote in message ... Robert L. Bass said: There are very few absolute truths (other than Jesus being Lord). puke Don't you have any common decency? Keep that garbage out of newsgroups where regular people participate. For the benefit of newbies, let me point out that Middius and his supporters like Phillips, Weil, and Phillips think that the pedophile fantasies he's posted on RAO on many occasions are good examples *decent* writing. |
#50
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
William Sommerwerck wrote:
I said Jason Wong said: I'm looking to upgrade to a new Pro Logic II receiver and am undecided between the Denon AVR-1603 or the Yamaha HTR-5550. I can get both for the same price of $400 CAN. I haven't been able to compare the two yet as they are sold by separate dealers where I'm from. Just wanted to get the audiophile's opinion on this one. Thanks! That is still quite because the guy is asking for opinions, not what his preference should be. No, he's asking us to tell him what to buy. That is still quite "quite". He's telling us that he is undecided which to buy between Denon and Yamaha because he hasn't been able to compare the two yet as they are sold by separate dealers where he's from. He's looking to us as "experts" to give him the absolute truth so he can buy the "right" product. Now that is really quite "quite". He's looking to us as "audiophiles" to get an audiophile's opinion so he can, perhaps, set his priorities or needs in drawing his own preferences. Mind you, do you think that you are an "expert" in giving him the "Absolute Truth" about his prefernces and what would sound good to him? |
#51
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
However, note that I'm not saying that you are wrong in your statement
that that's all that Denon was offering, just that you are wrong in assuming it, if you catch my drift. You could be correct, but I can't find anything from that period that refers to the products that were being imported. Denon certainly has *never* imported even *half* of their line. A good portion stays in Japan, especially the *very* high dollar stuff. I'm merely speaking based on my knowledge of the Denon product mix from the 80s on, *and* knowing the culture of the company. For a long time during the late 80s, they shied away from lower end products, at least in terms of their marketing push. They've *always* hung their hat on the "higher end" market and have stayed away from the sort of wide product mix that even Yamaha has covered. Agreed on every point. I don't remember "good" Denon stuff until the mid and late '70s. A search of Audio and other hi-fi mags of that era would resolve the question, but I don't have them at hand. |
#52
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
I apologize for mis-remembering what I read.
The question could have been a bit more "specific," but it was NOT a vague "which is best" question, which I detest. Sorry about that. I should point out, however, that it's unlikely anyone in this group has had direct experience with inexpensive AV receivers. Opinions are more likely to be based on general impressions of Denon and Yamaha, or experiences with _other_ Denon and Yamaha products. I'm looking to upgrade to a new Pro Logic II receiver and am undecided between the Denon AVR-1603 or the Yamaha HTR-5550. I can get both for the same price of $400 CAN. I haven't been able to compare the two yet as they are sold by separate dealers where I'm from. Just wanted to get the audiophile's opinion on this one. Thanks! |
#53
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
"hawke" wrote in message ... I have found the Yamaha line to be exceptional once you get above a certain price point. Their RX-V3000, 3300, V1, and Z1 receivers offer excceptional quality. The new Z9 set to be released any day now offers high-performance burr-brown 24-bit DACs for all 11 channels. While it lacks DVI switching, it all but eclipses separates in its price class in terms of quality and feature set. The Z9 is FINALLY going to be a worthy contender since they now have adopted THX. Espen B |
#54
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
geeez guys, it's just a receiver for crying out loud..
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#55
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
"Jason Wong" wrote in message om... Okay everyone, I thought I might put an end to this "heated" debate by saying that I bought the Denon AVR-1603 yesterday. My choice was relatively simple; unfortunately I wasn't able to sample both at the same time, because they were being sold by separate dealers. But the dealer selling the Denon was able to give me $100 trade-in for my Pioneer dolby digital (non pro-logic II, non DTS), so I got the Denon for $400 CAN. I got the dealer to showcase the receiver with the same Paradigm Titan fronts that I currently own, and a CC-170 centre which I also eventually bought! Unfortunately the Yamaha dealer didn't have Paradigm speakers and their store and wouldn't offer me a tradein, so I never even got to test the unit out. In the end I think I got a steal because the 1603 was already marked down significantly because they were the last two units in the store. They said once they were gone, they'd get teh 1604s in which would sell back at regular price of around $650. So far I'm quite happy with the Denon. Finally listening to the DTS surround tracks on my DVDs makes a world of a difference. Unfortunately the numbers on the remote don't work in VCR mode, which is a shame because I use my VCR like a cable box to extend the limited channel range on my old TV. Oh well, I guess that means I'll have to upgrade my TV soon! Thanks for all the "opinions" strewn about in this thread. They were.... insightful. ;-) But useless in making your decision -- Jason |
#56
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:39:44 +0200, "Espen Braathen"
wrote: "hawke" wrote in message m... I have found the Yamaha line to be exceptional once you get above a certain price point. Their RX-V3000, 3300, V1, and Z1 receivers offer excceptional quality. The new Z9 set to be released any day now offers high-performance burr-brown 24-bit DACs for all 11 channels. While it lacks DVI switching, it all but eclipses separates in its price class in terms of quality and feature set. The Z9 is FINALLY going to be a worthy contender since they now have adopted THX. THX is no guarantee of worthiness, but is often a guarantee of a licensing fee to increase the cost of a piece of equipment. the Z9 is certainly a nice looking unit, and would be equally nice without the THX stamp on the front Grant Kinsley MD Espen B |
#57
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 17:32:21 -0500, Rob Adelman
wrote: geeez guys, it's just a receiver for crying out loud.. No doubt. For the record, I have had a Yamaha RX-V590 reciever for about 5-6 years now, and it plays back both stereo and surround recordings pretty well. I have heard better recievers, but they usually cost a lot more than the $500 I paid for the Yamaha. Randall |
#58
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
William Sommerwerck wrote:
I apologize for mis-remembering what I read. ... Sorry about that. You're excused. |
#59
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
There are NO absolute truths.
I used to think that was true, too. Then one day I met Someone who changed my point of view. |
#60
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
"Leadfoot" wrote in message news:S1pcb.1582$hp5.655@fed1read04...
But useless in making your decision Oh absolutely! I mean comeon guys, who CARES what Denon did in the 1970s!!!! Does that all matter, especially considering my original post asked for opinions over one Denon model vs a Yamaha one? I hardly think Denons rep back in the "late 70s and early 80s" has anything to do with the AVR-1603. I don't know how a simple question from a first-time poster could have ballooned into one hell of a large thread, but it seems like some of you guys need to find a better outlet to vent your argumentative and petty nature than wasting space in the newsgroups. Save yourselves the time typing, you'll thank me later when you avoid getting carpal tunnel syndrome. |
#61
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
Oh absolutely! I mean comeon guys, who CARES
what Denon did in the 1970s!!!! Does that all matter, especially considering my original post asked for opinions over one Denon model vs a Yamaha one? Welcome to USENET. :^) |
#62
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
In article ,
"Robert L. Bass" wrote: Oh absolutely! I mean comeon guys, who CARES what Denon did in the 1970s!!!! Does that all matter, especially considering my original post asked for opinions over one Denon model vs a Yamaha one? Welcome to USENET. :^) cross posting is never a good thing george |
#63
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
"Jason Wong" wrote in message om... "Leadfoot" wrote in message news:S1pcb.1582$hp5.655@fed1read04... But useless in making your decision Oh absolutely! I mean comeon guys, who CARES what Denon did in the 1970s!!!! Does that all matter, especially considering my original post asked for opinions over one Denon model vs a Yamaha one? I hardly think Denons rep back in the "late 70s and early 80s" has anything to do with the AVR-1603. I don't know how a simple question from a first-time poster could have ballooned into one hell of a large thread, but it seems like some of you guys need to find a better outlet to vent your argumentative and petty nature than wasting space in the newsgroups. Save yourselves the time typing, you'll thank me later when you avoid getting carpal tunnel syndrome. Take 1 This audiophile says Denons have better base and Yamahas have better surround processors. But if you wait until you can up your budget by, ahem, 100%, you can get the best of both worlds with inexpensive separates. Plus a few more cables, of course Take 2 I'm not an audiophile, per se, but from what I've read, heard and experienced, George is spot on about Denons producing a better bass sound and Yamaha being the better sound processor. At that price range, you should go for the Yamaha because it sounds like you'd probably have lower-end speakers that won't handle bass too well anyhow, so might as well go for the better overall sound. Take 3 I have a Yamaha 5550, and love it to bits. It's my first system, and I was working to a budget (no sub) but it's great for the money. Having quickly looked at the Denon specs (and obviously exhibting bias here), if it bothers you, neither amp has true 6.1 outputs, but while the Denon doesn't appear to have any 6.1 capability, the 5550 can handle 6.1 inputs by converting them to 5.1 and using a 'virtual' 6th speaker (which basically means output from the two rear surrounds). It's not ideal, but it does work surprisingly well My DVD player only had coaxial output, and after being initially concerned, I found this isn't something to worry about at all. Yes it has coaxial input, but not for the default DVD channel. I think the default coaxial input is CD. However, it's *very* easy to reconfigure the input labels in the menu system so that the DVD signal is read from the coaxial input. The manual tells you how to do it. The remote is good, though how compatible you can make it with your other equipment will depend upon the make of equipment. It works brilliantly with my Sony DVD, but not at all with my, ahem, Schneider TV. Matrix 6.1, changing inputs, and remote configuration are all in the manual. Take 4 1) The specs for this Denon say 80W per channel, and the Yamaha 75W. Does this translate into a large difference? It translates into no difference. Take 5 1) The specs for this Denon say 80W per channel, and the Yamaha 75W. Does this translate into a large difference? Not at all. 2) Does this Yamaha have no coaxial audio input for DVD? It appears to only have one for CD, and optical input for DVD only. I wonder if that makes me screwed because my DVD player has no optical audio output. Why worry about having two optical players? Take 6 I auditioned Denon, Yamaha, Sony and Marantz before I decided on the Yamaha receiver for my home surround system. It sounded as good as units costing 4 times as much. It also has pre amp outs for all channels so I can bypass the Yamaha power amp. It has a very comprehensive feature set AND you can disable the DSP processing. Feature for feature I think that a $400-500 Yamaha is the way to go. Go to a Hi Fi store and audition them through the same set of speakers. Take 7 Don't even THINK about buying anything Yamaha. Get the Denon Note: this isn't an opinion supported by anything the author wanted to add Take 8 Because Yamaha has a terrible reputation. Few Yamaha products have ever gotten favorable reviews in the American audiophile magazines, whereas Denon and Onkyo products commonly do. Some of the worst-sounding surround products I reviewed for Stereophile were Yamaha Take 9 Wow, talk about praising with faint damns. Of the two units named, the original poster should buy the one which has the most features he wants. Since he specifically mentioned that he's interested in Pro Logic II, one thing to check into is the configurability of the Pro Logic II mode. It's not price-correlated. I have a Yammy 5540 and a Harmon Kardon AVR520; the latter cost several hundred more than the former, and has more features and power, but happens to be *less* configurable in DPL II made than the Yammy. The Yammies allow you to adjust 'panorama' and a few other user-configurable features of DPL II , whereas the H-K has a 'fixed' DPL II config. Don't know about the Denon Take 10 Hmm. I only offer opinions. For the most part they're educated opinions but they are still opinions. That said, in my opinion the gentleman is wrong. I've owned and installed Denon and Yamaha equipment and I find Yamaha to be superior. My Yamaha RXV3000 is, for the money, among the best around. Take 11 No offense, but blanket statements like that are just plain bad advice. I understand you may have had some bad listening experiences with Yamaha 25 years ago, but the company has changed its product line just a little bit since then. I'm a fan of free speech, and you can continue saying whatever you like. But to write off an entire company is something that everyone here should take with a grain of salt - a very small grain. I have found the Yamaha line to be exceptional once you get above a certain price point. Their RX-V3000, 3300, V1, and Z1 receivers offer excceptional quality. The new Z9 set to be released any day now offers high-performance burr-brown 24-bit DACs for all 11 channels. While it lacks DVI switching, it all but eclipses separates in its price class in terms of quality and feature set. I can also say the same for the Denon 5803. As for your price point. Give them both a listen if you can, and see if you like to listen to DSP when you watch movies. If you do, then the Yamaha will have an edge. If you tastes are for mostly music, the Denon may sound better to you. end of takes After weeding out the chaff you had 11 good takes on your question which seemed to be in the Yamaha's favor slightly. However your decision was made based on this statement. "Unfortunately the Yamaha dealer didn't have Paradigm speakers and their store and wouldn't offer me a tradein, so I never even got to test the unit out." It appears you made your decision primarily on price and (maybe) the Yamaha dealers lack of foresight in having demo speakers that matched your own. As it is I have a Ymaha RX-V630 I'm very happy with. I didn't weigh on this topic because I haven't played with a denon receiver. Denon was in the running when I decided to upgrade I just found they were just a little too expensive vs the yamaha I was comparing them too |
#64
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
"Andrew M." wrote in message ... There are NO absolute truths. In some abstract philosophical sense within the limits of human knowledge, that's probably true. However, if you try to live your life that way, you're headed for all kinds of trouble. Are Newton's laws of motion absolutely true? No, there's always relativistic mechanics. However for virtually everything you build that people use on a day-to-day basis, you better treat Newton's laws of motion as if they were absolute truth, or your work will be a disaster of one kind or the other. |
#65
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
I am just responding to the ridiculous JESUS reference made here. Go
thump your bible in the bible thumping forum. There are many people here that are not christian who find your remarks offensive. Arny Krueger wrote: "Andrew M." wrote in message ... There are NO absolute truths. In some abstract philosophical sense within the limits of human knowledge, that's probably true. However, if you try to live your life that way, you're headed for all kinds of trouble. Are Newton's laws of motion absolutely true? No, there's always relativistic mechanics. However for virtually everything you build that people use on a day-to-day basis, you better treat Newton's laws of motion as if they were absolute truth, or your work will be a disaster of one kind or the other. |
#66
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
"Andrew M." wrote in message ... I am just responding to the ridiculous JESUS reference made here. I am just responding to the rotten logic embedded in your hostile, hysterical bigoted response, Andrew. Go thump your bible in the bible thumping forum. Did I mention the bible in this thread? No! Andrew, are you delusional or what? There are many people here that are not Christian who find your remarks offensive. My remarks in this thread were entirely non-Christian. But the idea that Christian ideas would be offensive speaks to the narrow-mindedness and intolerance we find with certain hysterical rabid anti-Christian people. For the record, I'm a Christian, but I intentionally left my beliefs out of this discussion because I saw an opportunity to make a larger point. That larger point is that people who are rabid anti-Christians like Middius and "Andrew" are not the paragons of logic that they would like to think. In fact they are just narrow-minded bigots whose alleged logic is often about as bad as it gets. Their operative mind set appears to be hysteria. Arny Krueger wrote: "Andrew M." wrote in message ... There are NO absolute truths. In some abstract philosophical sense within the limits of human knowledge, that's probably true. However, if you try to live your life that way, you're headed for all kinds of trouble. Are Newton's laws of motion absolutely true? No, there's always relativistic mechanics. However for virtually everything you build that people use on a day-to-day basis, you better treat Newton's laws of motion as if they were absolute truth, or your work will be a disaster of one kind or the other. |
#67
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
2+2=4?
-- There are 10 kinds of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't. ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US! "Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... "Andrew M." wrote in message ... There are NO absolute truths. In some abstract philosophical sense within the limits of human knowledge, that's probably true. However, if you try to live your life that way, you're headed for all kinds of trouble. Are Newton's laws of motion absolutely true? No, there's always relativistic mechanics. However for virtually everything you build that people use on a day-to-day basis, you better treat Newton's laws of motion as if they were absolute truth, or your work will be a disaster of one kind or the other. |
#68
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
Hey guys, do you like the Denon or the Yamaha?
Clay -- There are 10 kinds of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't. ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US! "Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... "Andrew M." wrote in message ... I am just responding to the ridiculous JESUS reference made here. I am just responding to the rotten logic embedded in your hostile, hysterical bigoted response, Andrew. Go thump your bible in the bible thumping forum. Did I mention the bible in this thread? No! Andrew, are you delusional or what? There are many people here that are not Christian who find your remarks offensive. My remarks in this thread were entirely non-Christian. But the idea that Christian ideas would be offensive speaks to the narrow-mindedness and intolerance we find with certain hysterical rabid anti-Christian people. For the record, I'm a Christian, but I intentionally left my beliefs out of this discussion because I saw an opportunity to make a larger point. That larger point is that people who are rabid anti-Christians like Middius and "Andrew" are not the paragons of logic that they would like to think. In fact they are just narrow-minded bigots whose alleged logic is often about as bad as it gets. Their operative mind set appears to be hysteria. Arny Krueger wrote: "Andrew M." wrote in message ... There are NO absolute truths. In some abstract philosophical sense within the limits of human knowledge, that's probably true. However, if you try to live your life that way, you're headed for all kinds of trouble. Are Newton's laws of motion absolutely true? No, there's always relativistic mechanics. However for virtually everything you build that people use on a day-to-day basis, you better treat Newton's laws of motion as if they were absolute truth, or your work will be a disaster of one kind or the other. |
#69
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
Maybe you didn't say it but someone did. Any reference to Jesus is a
reference to that work of fiction called the bible...Go tout it somewhere else. Welcome back to the crusades...Keep your fairy tale religion to your self. Arny Krueger wrote: "Andrew M." wrote in message ... I am just responding to the ridiculous JESUS reference made here. I am just responding to the rotten logic embedded in your hostile, hysterical bigoted response, Andrew. Go thump your bible in the bible thumping forum. Did I mention the bible in this thread? No! Andrew, are you delusional or what? There are many people here that are not Christian who find your remarks offensive. My remarks in this thread were entirely non-Christian. But the idea that Christian ideas would be offensive speaks to the narrow-mindedness and intolerance we find with certain hysterical rabid anti-Christian people. For the record, I'm a Christian, but I intentionally left my beliefs out of this discussion because I saw an opportunity to make a larger point. That larger point is that people who are rabid anti-Christians like Middius and "Andrew" are not the paragons of logic that they would like to think. In fact they are just narrow-minded bigots whose alleged logic is often about as bad as it gets. Their operative mind set appears to be hysteria. Arny Krueger wrote: "Andrew M." wrote in message .. . There are NO absolute truths. In some abstract philosophical sense within the limits of human knowledge, that's probably true. However, if you try to live your life that way, you're headed for all kinds of trouble. Are Newton's laws of motion absolutely true? No, there's always relativistic mechanics. However for virtually everything you build that people use on a day-to-day basis, you better treat Newton's laws of motion as if they were absolute truth, or your work will be a disaster of one kind or the other. |
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
"Andrew M." wrote in message ... Maybe you didn't say it but someone did. Speaks to your vague connection with reality, Andrew. Any reference to Jesus is a reference to that work of fiction called the bible...Go tout it somewhere else. Shows your bigotry and hysterical state of mind, Andrew. People mention various written works of opinion, fact, theory, poetry, stories, prognostication, you name it; all the time and as a rule nobody goes ballistic. OTOH if someone should be so brave as to mention the Bible in public, it's not uncommon for some pathetic hysterical Christian-hating bigot to fly off the handle and say all sorts of crazy things. I suggest Andrew that you recognize that at the very least the Bible is just another written work of opinion, fact, theory, poetry, stories, prognostication, you name it, and get on with the rest of your life. Welcome back to the crusades... Anybody who understands history knows that Christianity was a pretext for the Crusades, not the cause. But again given your demonstrated level of hysteria and unreason Andrew, this is probably a news flash to you. Keep your fairy tale religion to your self. Everybody seems to have a belief system that is partially based on reliable facts, partially based on questionable beliefs, and mostly composed of things that are someplace in-between. One advantage to making up your own religion and keeping it a secret is that it's impossible for people to accuse you of being inconsistent. We've already got people like Phillips, Singh, Middius, and Graham who have played this card for years. Welcome to their sorry club! You can start posting your pedophile fantasies like they do, any time! Tell you what Andrew, you say what you will about your belief system and I promise to not try to attack and trash your freedom of speech like you've tried to attack and trash mine. Or, for plan B, you could try to repeal the Constitution of the United States of America, Article One. Probably more to the point, you should find a good psychiatrist, explain your feelings of panic and hysteria to him, and obtain an appropriate medication. Arny Krueger wrote: "Andrew M." wrote in message ... I am just responding to the ridiculous JESUS reference made here. I am just responding to the rotten logic embedded in your hostile, hysterical bigoted response, Andrew. Go thump your bible in the bible thumping forum. Did I mention the bible in this thread? No! Andrew, are you delusional or what? There are many people here that are not Christian who find your remarks offensive. My remarks in this thread were entirely non-Christian. But the idea that Christian ideas would be offensive speaks to the narrow-mindedness and intolerance we find with certain hysterical rabid anti-Christian people. For the record, I'm a Christian, but I intentionally left my beliefs out of this discussion because I saw an opportunity to make a larger point. That larger point is that people who are rabid anti-Christians like Middius and "Andrew" are not the paragons of logic that they would like to think. In fact they are just narrow-minded bigots whose alleged logic is often about as bad as it gets. Their operative mind set appears to be hysteria. Arny Krueger wrote: "Andrew M." wrote in message .. . There are NO absolute truths. In some abstract philosophical sense within the limits of human knowledge, that's probably true. However, if you try to live your life that way, you're headed for all kinds of trouble. Are Newton's laws of motion absolutely true? No, there's always relativistic mechanics. However for virtually everything you build that people use on a day-to-day basis, you better treat Newton's laws of motion as if they were absolute truth, or your work will be a disaster of one kind or the other. |
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
"badger" cferriola@1remove numbers2triad.rr.com wrote in message ... 2+2=4? -- There are 10 kinds of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't. ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US! LOL! "Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... "Andrew M." wrote in message ... There are NO absolute truths. In some abstract philosophical sense within the limits of human knowledge, that's probably true. However, if you try to live your life that way, you're headed for all kinds of trouble. Are Newton's laws of motion absolutely true? No, there's always relativistic mechanics. However for virtually everything you build that people use on a day-to-day basis, you better treat Newton's laws of motion as if they were absolute truth, or your work will be a disaster of one kind or the other. |
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
Arny Krueger wrote: In some abstract philosophical sense within the limits of human knowledge, that's probably true. However, if you try to live your life that way, you're headed for all kinds of trouble. Are Newton's laws of motion absolutely true? No, there's always relativistic mechanics. However for virtually everything you build that people use on a day-to-day basis, you better treat Newton's laws of motion as if they were absolute truth, or your work will be a disaster of one kind or the other. But Newton's laws can be recreated and verified. |
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
Arny Krueger wrote:
"Andrew M." wrote in message ... I am just responding to the ridiculous JESUS reference made here. I am just responding to the rotten logic embedded in your hostile, hysterical bigoted response, Andrew. Go thump your bible in the bible thumping forum. Did I mention the bible in this thread? No! Andrew, are you delusional or what? There are many people here that are not Christian who find your remarks offensive. My remarks in this thread were entirely non-Christian. But the idea that Christian ideas would be offensive speaks to the narrow-mindedness and intolerance we find with certain hysterical rabid anti-Christian people. For the record, I'm a Christian, LOL! |
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
"Rob Adelman" wrote in message
Arny Krueger wrote: In some abstract philosophical sense within the limits of human knowledge, that's probably true. However, if you try to live your life that way, you're headed for all kinds of trouble. Are Newton's laws of motion absolutely true? No, there's always relativistic mechanics. However for virtually everything you build that people use on a day-to-day basis, you better treat Newton's laws of motion as if they were absolute truth, or your work will be a disaster of one kind or the other. But Newton's laws can be recreated and verified. Exactly. So can relativistic motion. |
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
"Andrew M." wrote in message
There are NO absolute truths. If this is true, then it contradicts itself. -- submarines are lurking in my foggy ceiling they keep me sleepless at night... l bruce higgins ithaca new york lbh2 at cornell dot edu |
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
"badger" cferriola@1remove numbers2triad.rr.com wrote in message ... Hey guys, do you like the Denon or the Yamaha? Clay I like both of them. My advice would be the expand the list to include some cheaper, more capable receivers that also have a good reputation, such as Panasonic. Then peruse the instruction manuals which are usually posted on the manufacturer's web site. This will tell you what features the receiver has and what's missing (possibly a phono stage.) Then make your decision. Remember, the manufacturer is only responsible for what it says on the spec sheet. The difference between 75W and 80W is 5W--not nothing. Norm Strong |
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
isn't that the point?
brew ziggins wrote: "Andrew M." wrote in message There are NO absolute truths. If this is true, then it contradicts itself. |
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
"Andrew M." wrote in message
brew ziggins wrote: "Andrew M." wrote in message There are NO absolute truths. If this is true, then it contradicts itself. isn't that the point? Nice recovery from a dramatic logic slip and fall. Trouble is, figuratively you fell and the recovery was just a cover-up for your bad logic. |
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
thump thump thump....
Arny Krueger wrote: "Andrew M." wrote in message brew ziggins wrote: "Andrew M." wrote in message There are NO absolute truths. If this is true, then it contradicts itself. isn't that the point? Nice recovery from a dramatic logic slip and fall. Trouble is, figuratively you fell and the recovery was just a cover-up for your bad logic. |
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
I am just responding to the ridiculous JESUS
reference made here. Go thump your bible in the bible thumping forum. There are many people here that are not christian who find your remarks offensive. FTR, you are responding to Arny. He didn't thump anything. The comment about Jesus was in my post. One of the nice things about unmoderated USENET newsgroups is the freedom of expression which we all enjoy. As long as the message is on topic, side comments about unrelated matters are perfectly acceptable. Thus you have just as much freedom (and not any more) to object to my side comment about my beliefs as I have to make the comment in the first place. This is developing into an off-topic meta thread, something most people consider more destructive than any off-topic, 8-word comment within an on-topic post. That often happens when anyone mentions an issue that touches the hearts or consciences of others. C'est la USENET |
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