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  #41   Report Post  
Kurt Albershardt
 
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Default (OT)..... What Would You Do With $87 Billion Dollars??

Analogeezer wrote:

Well part of the problem is selection...kind of like if the only
choices we had in compressors were an Alesis 3630 and an ART Levelar"

Gee last time we had the Shrub, "I invented the internet" Gore, and
"Everything is dangerous and Evil" Nader. I think I'd rather vote for
Charlie Manson than those three clowns...


Anybody catch Gen. Wesley Clark on Bill Maher last week?


  #42   Report Post  
Kurt Albershardt
 
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Default (OT)..... What Would You Do With $87 Billion Dollars??

James Boyk wrote:

the current administration? In what area *have* they shown foresight?


In understanding the intricate details of manipulating the Florida
election system?

In understanding how to transfer large sums of money from California
ratepayers to the coffers of their largest contributors?

Well, you get the idea...


  #43   Report Post  
Kurt Albershardt
 
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Default (OT)..... What Would You Do With $87 Billion Dollars??

Roger W. Norman wrote:

Anybody catch Gen. Wesley Clark on Bill Maher last week?


Missed it, but it should be on tomorrow night again. Clark was just on
Hardball and dealing out some good analysis. I asked Col. Hackworth what he
thought of Clark and he basically said he was a good soldier and manager,
but wouldn't go so far as to say he'd make a good president.


Seemed to me like one of the more reasonable and rational voices I've
heard in this pre-pre election runup. Someone who actually thinks about
the issues and isn't just playing an emotion card.




east as if it had something to do with Al Qaeda. And when conservative
Republicans start calling for Bush's impeachment (a commentary in WND.com
today) it makes me feel like Bush may not get re-elected, if the Dems can
just field a qualified candidate. Kerry is about the only one that seems to
have a history of sticking to his guns, although he did vote to give Bush
the right to use the military without a declaration of war from Congress.
It does seem to me that people with military experience that do public
service have a better understanding of just what the Constitution is all
about.


And his background makes him digestible to a large swath of non-thinking
middle Amerika--the group which doesn't want to take time to understand
the issues and to whom critical thinking is a foreign concept. If we
don't get them, or at least a good chunk of them onboard, we don't have
a prayer.




  #44   Report Post  
Roger W. Norman
 
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Default (OT)..... What Would You Do With $87 Billion Dollars??

Missed it, but it should be on tomorrow night again. Clark was just on
Hardball and dealing out some good analysis. I asked Col. Hackworth what he
thought of Clark and he basically said he was a good soldier and manager,
but wouldn't go so far as to say he'd make a good president. Still, he
knows war and how to wage them and doesn't hold truck with this hidden
agenda (ain't so hidden now is it?) of trying the sweep through the middle
east as if it had something to do with Al Qaeda. And when conservative
Republicans start calling for Bush's impeachment (a commentary in WND.com
today) it makes me feel like Bush may not get re-elected, if the Dems can
just field a qualified candidate. Kerry is about the only one that seems to
have a history of sticking to his guns, although he did vote to give Bush
the right to use the military without a declaration of war from Congress.
It does seem to me that people with military experience that do public
service have a better understanding of just what the Constitution is all
about.
--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.




"Kurt Albershardt" wrote in message
...
Analogeezer wrote:

Well part of the problem is selection...kind of like if the only
choices we had in compressors were an Alesis 3630 and an ART Levelar"

Gee last time we had the Shrub, "I invented the internet" Gore, and
"Everything is dangerous and Evil" Nader. I think I'd rather vote for
Charlie Manson than those three clowns...


Anybody catch Gen. Wesley Clark on Bill Maher last week?




  #45   Report Post  
ScotFraser
 
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Default (OT)..... What Would You Do With $87 Billion Dollars??

With $87 billion we could turn our next door neighbors Mexico into a first
world nation, & no American soldiers would be killed in the undertaking.


Scott Fraser


  #46   Report Post  
Chris Hornbeck
 
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Default (OT)..... What Would You Do With $87 Billion Dollars??

On Mon, 08 Sep 2003 08:53:13 -0700, James Boyk
wrote:

The education disaster is self-perpetuating; once 1/3 of
adults are functionally illiterate---the figure that's cited now---it becomes
much more difficult to have a politically responsive and responsible populace.


But who wants a politically responsive and responsible populace? When
we can have a manipulatable consumer base and an all-volunteer
military force, boat-rockers are not welcome.

Chris Hornbeck

  #47   Report Post  
Justin Ulysses Morse
 
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Default (OT)..... What Would You Do With $87 Billion Dollars??

nmm wrote:
How does that quote go; "Give a Man a Fish, and Feed him for a Day, Teach
him to Fish and feed him for a Lifetime"


"Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish
and you get rid of him for the weekend."

ulysses
  #48   Report Post  
Bob Cain
 
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Default (OT)..... What Would You Do With $87 Billion Dollars??



"Roger W. Norman" wrote:

As far as religious war, check out
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=34469. Seems that Bin Laden
is sneaking up on being the Islamic Messiah, which certainly goes right
along with your perception.


Had the U.S. deliberately set out to establish him as al
Madhi with full understanding of the prophecy, its timing
and its fulfillment, it could not have done a better job.
The only way Bin Laden could possibly avoid the mantel,
assuming that he still lives and that he lives long enough,
is to very actively deny it and that ain't likely.

The importance of the figure and the passion the belief in
its embodiment will elicit in all branches of Islam and in
any place it is practiced just can't be overstated.


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein
  #49   Report Post  
Blind Joni
 
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Default (OT)..... What Would You Do With $87 Billion Dollars??

Want to know why it's unresolved? Because you can't throw money at a problem
that isn't rooted in money. You can't want something for someone more than
they
want it for themselves. You can't make people want to take responsibility.
You
can't make people want to take the first step to fix their problems


AMEN!!!


John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637
  #50   Report Post  
Blind Joni
 
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Default (OT)..... What Would You Do With $87 Billion Dollars??

I'd rather spend that money on R&D for oil alternatives
such as hydrogen or electrically powered cars, more
and safer nuclear power plants, cleaner coal use, etc.


and you don't think this stuff is going on as we type? Just as you can't force
someone to help themselves you can't force a population to accept technology is
isn't ready to.


John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637


  #51   Report Post  
Blind Joni
 
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Default (OT)..... What Would You Do With $87 Billion Dollars??

Just for reference on the "failure" of the War on Poverty: If you look at the
stats for the percentage (and absolute number) of poor people in America, it
starts out the 1960s at a surprisingly high level. Beginning in 1965, when
the
War on Poverty began, the numbers and percentage go way down, to less than
half
what they were beforehand -- and this in a time when "poverty" was being more
generously defined in order to include as many people as possible in the
program


So this means that the government giving people money makes them not poor
anymore? Please explain this some.


John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637
  #52   Report Post  
Blind Joni
 
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Default (OT)..... What Would You Do With $87 Billion Dollars??

I am amazed at the number of people who think a pocket full of cash would
solve
every problem they have. It never occurs to most of these people that the

lack
of money in their pocket is not the problem, but just a symptom of a

bigger
problem found in the grey matter between their ears.


This could only come from the mouth of someone withoout money problems.


blahblah


He's trying to shed light on WHY someone has money problems...people are
responsible for themselves..supposedly..unless unable to be...not unwilling to
be.
How are someones money problems someone elses problem?..specifically.




John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637
  #53   Report Post  
Blind Joni
 
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Default (OT)..... What Would You Do With $87 Billion Dollars??

The fact that he exploited and tossed aside his workers like fodder, and
fathered an archetype for a system that encourages no skills training
and sees workers as expendable cogs in a blind and dumb machine... that
doesn't bother you?


It bothers me and I don't see very much of it anymore..he was one of the
first..did we expect him to get everything right?

How about all those American jobs moving to other countries? You can
thank Henry Ford for the paradigm that's resulted in that.


Those countries are doing the same thing we did..growing and hopefully
learning.

Henry Ford's mentality is the same one that results in sweat shops where
kids are working 80 hours a week for pennies a day.


Well..mass production of any kind in it's infancy will probably yield this for
a period of time. I guess pennies a day is better than none if that's the only
choice.

This is the same kind of perspective that would have us deny China and other
growing countries the ability to develope industry; and therefore jobs, because
burning coal causes too much pollution. We had the chance to grow and excel but
others can't? I would just like to know how better to go about it without
dictating.


John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637
  #54   Report Post  
Blind Joni
 
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Default (OT)..... What Would You Do With $87 Billion Dollars??

It's NOT idiotic, if you believe that America is the New Jerusalem, that we
are
specially blessed by God and have a divine mission to defeat evil (ie,
anything
not consistent with Protestant-American values).


Isn't this the way the "terrorists" view us?
And you fight this How?

Dubbya and the fundamentalists are leading the US towards a global religious
war
that could result in the destruction of our country (and others) and the
deaths
of tens (if not hundreds) of millions of people.


Meaning attack by terrorists again? Wasn't this already happening for years?


Evil is not a person, place, or thing. It is a belief -- and you cannot get
rid
of the belief by getting rid of its believers.


Yet this is just what the terrorists are trying to do..we should clue them in.

Final gratuitous slap: Any President whose foreign policy is based on "We're
good -- they're bad" clearly knows nothing about the history of the world


Can you explain this a little..I admit I'm no history buff but can you give an
example of a similar situation and the proper response?
Thanks,

John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637
  #55   Report Post  
Blind Joni
 
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Default (OT)..... What Would You Do With $87 Billion Dollars??

Speak for yourself, pal. I plan on being around for awhile and I think
the profit opportunity is big enough that someone will find a way.

http://www.milleniumcell.com/ is close already.



At least you know what stock to buy!!


John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637


  #56   Report Post  
Blind Joni
 
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Default (OT)..... What Would You Do With $87 Billion Dollars??

He may have *said* that; he may have even thought it; that doesn't mean it
would
actually work out that way. And if it did, so what? You're surely not
subscribing to the idea that merely wanting to be well off can make one so.
If
that were true, I assure you, I'd be rich beyond your wildest dreams.


It's about a way of "being" not how much you want something. Many have it down
so that it works..most of us don't..and that's our responsibility.


We're the only developed
nation in the world without universal health care. (Yes, the health care in
some
of those other countries isn't great; but at least they've got it. They've
got
something to work on. We have 42,000,000 citizens with None, including
9,000,000
children.)


First..you're talking about health care "insurance coverage"..not health care.
I am one of those 42 million and choose to be at my own peril. We have ..in
most areas..the BEST "Health care" in the world. Insurance coverage for
everyday events is the reason for the problem in the first place. How much
would car insurance cost if it had to pay for oil changes and new
tires..sheesh!!

We have lots of homeless, 1/3 of whom have *full-time* jobs and still can't
afford housing.


And we fix this how??

We have huge unemployment.


6% = HUGE..got it.

Public health at risk from recurrence of TB (highly
contagious) in a population in which 1 of 8 people lacks health care.


"Insurance coverage"

Schools a
disaster as too many teachers know nothing, yet there's no public will to
improve education. The education disaster is self-perpetuating; once 1/3 of
adults are functionally illiterate---the figure that's cited now---it becomes

much more difficult to have a politically responsive and responsible
populace.


I agree..see it everyday..just wondering what the government can do to fix it.


Whatever is responsible, we are certainly allowing unheard-of illegalities
and
misbehavior on the highest levels of government.


I agree.


John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637
  #57   Report Post  
Blind Joni
 
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Default (OT)..... What Would You Do With $87 Billion Dollars??

Sorry John. Not impressed. Making money isn't really that special.
Just squirrels gathering more nuts..... Showing some humanity is much
more impressive. Henry Ford was an asshole, and all his money couldn't
buy him a good reputation.


But these attributes are not mutually exclusive!! There are plenty of good
companies..find out who they are are patronize them whenever possible. If we
start condemning evryone from the past with a less that stellar world views and
habits we may all have to live on deserted islands or be guilty of partaking in
forbidden fruit.


John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637
  #58   Report Post  
Joel Embry
 
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Default (OT)..... What Would You Do With $87 Billion Dollars??

So because research is already going on to find
a cure for cancer, that's a reason not to spend
more on it?? What logic....

Electric cars are already being accepted as well
as nuclear power. Hydrogen fuel, if it's successful
(cheap and accessible enough), will not be forced
on people, they will most likely readily accept it,
at least on some scale.

Joel


"Blind Joni" wrote in message
...
I'd rather spend that money on R&D for oil alternatives
such as hydrogen or electrically powered cars, more
and safer nuclear power plants, cleaner coal use, etc.


and you don't think this stuff is going on as we type? Just as you can't

force
someone to help themselves you can't force a population to accept

technology is
isn't ready to.


John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637



  #59   Report Post  
Joel Embry
 
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Default (OT)..... What Would You Do With $87 Billion Dollars??

How about all those American jobs moving to other countries? You can
thank Henry Ford for the paradigm that's resulted in that.


This is because we can not compete because of labor unions artificially
inflating wages in the US for UNSKILLED workers. Since when did the
guy tightening lug nuts in an automotive plant become middle class?
Don't need a degree, just know someone working at the big 3 already
and you're in, with little chance of getting fired no matter what you do
or how unproductive you are. Sounds like communism to me...

Joel


  #60   Report Post  
Blind Joni
 
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Default (OT)..... What Would You Do With $87 Billion Dollars??

This is because we can not compete because of labor unions artificially
inflating wages in the US for UNSKILLED workers. Since when did the
guy tightening lug nuts in an automotive plant become middle class?
Don't need a degree, just know someone working at the big 3 already
and you're in, with little chance of getting fired no matter what you do
or how unproductive you are. Sounds like communism to me...


Actually this sounds about right. As with many things in this country we have
artificially inflated segments of the economy to a point where the rest cannot
keep up.


John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637


  #61   Report Post  
Joel Embry
 
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Default (OT)..... What Would You Do With $87 Billion Dollars??


Electric cars are already being accepted as well
as nuclear power. Hydrogen fuel, if it's successful
(cheap and accessible enough), will not be forced
on people, they will most likely readily accept it,


We're not building ANY nuclear plants in the USA.


Yeah, I did hear that one hasn't been built in quite a few
years. Makes you wonder about the safety of all those
"old" reactors.

.and you gotta plug in the
cars and this would be a good place for a solar station type enterprise.


The Honda Civic Hybrid does not have to be plugged in. True it still uses
some
gas but much less than the same car with only a gasoline engine.

Joel




John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637



  #62   Report Post  
Justin Ulysses Morse
 
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Default (OT)..... What Would You Do With $87 Billion Dollars??

Blind Joni wrote:

So this means that the government giving people money makes them not poor
anymore? Please explain this some.


I hope this example isn't too esoteric for you: The government pays
for the construction and staffing of a building where young people are
sent to be taught communication, analytic, and social skills that will
prepare them for a more productive and self-sufficient place in the
workforce and in society as a whole. Ideally, this Orwellian
institution teaches these kids how to make their own way, so they don't
end up a burden on the system through government assistance or
incarceration. Just how well it works is dependent in large part on
the resources (financial and otherwise) devoted to this far-fetched
plan.

Do you think it could work, or is this just throwing money at a problem
that's not rooted in money?

ulysses
  #63   Report Post  
P Stamler
 
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Default (OT)..... What Would You Do With $87 Billion Dollars??

So this means that the government giving people money makes them not poor
anymore? Please explain this some.


The Johnson-era "War on Poverty" was much different than a simple expansion of
welfare. It involved job-training programs, which included teaching people
skills involved in holding a job, as well as tackling the so-called "culture of
poverty". There were plenty of imperfections in the whole scheme, and it was
seriously underfunded thanks to the other war going on at the time, Viet Nam.
But if you look at the stats, for all its failings, the LBJ War on Poverty
really made a dent in the problem, raising millions of people from destitution
into at least a stable working-class life.
Millions? Yes. Here are some numbers (culled from the Statistical Abstract,
1980, which I happen to have handy): In 1960 there were 39.9 million people
living below the poverty level, or 22.2% of the population. In 1965, the first
year the Great Society programs were implemented, the number was 33.2 million,
or 17.3%. By 1969. the first year of the Nixon administration, it was down to
24.1 million, or 12.1%. It hovered around that figure through the Nixon, Ford
and Carter administrations, reaching its low point in 1973, where 23 million
were considered poor (11.1%).

It was a shock to me to realize that at the end of the Eisenhower
administration, 22.2% of the nation was living in poverty. The War on Poverty,
in no small measure, reduced that by half, taking ten million people off the
poverty rolls while the population increased. And that's no small
accomplishment.

Peace,
Paul
  #64   Report Post  
P Stamler
 
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Default (OT)..... What Would You Do With $87 Billion Dollars??

It does seem to me that people with military experience that do public
service have a better understanding of just what the Constitution is all
about.


Oh, that might be a bit of an over-generalization, if you pardon the
expression. After all, into that category you can put Curtis Lemay on the one
hand and Dwight Eisenhower on the other.

Peace,
Paul
  #65   Report Post  
P Stamler
 
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Default (OT)..... What Would You Do With $87 Billion Dollars??

How does that quote go; "Give a Man a Fish, and Feed him for a Day, Teach
him to Fish and feed him for a Lifetime"


No; it's "Give a man a fish, and he will eat for a day. Teach him to use the
internet, and he won't bother you for weeks."

Peace,
Paul


  #66   Report Post  
John LeBlanc
 
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Default (OT)..... What Would You Do With $87 Billion Dollars??

I know I said I wasn't going to participate any further, but I changed my mind.
Congratulations, Justin, your post below proves a point I made earlier:

"Justin Ulysses Morse" wrote in message
...
Blind Joni wrote:

So this means that the government giving people money makes them not poor
anymore? Please explain this some.


I hope this example isn't too esoteric for you: The government pays
for the construction and staffing of a building where young people are
sent to be taught communication, analytic, and social skills that will
prepare them for a more productive and self-sufficient place in the
workforce and in society as a whole. Ideally, this Orwellian
institution teaches these kids how to make their own way, so they don't
end up a burden on the system through government assistance or
incarceration. Just how well it works is dependent in large part on
the resources (financial and otherwise) devoted to this far-fetched
plan.



What a great ****ing idea! Ever hear of Job Corps? http://www.jobcorps.org/
Problem is, your brilliant idea is not dependent on the resources thrown at it;
it is totally dependent on people actually showing up to your Orwellian
institution to learn a trade and let the federal government help them get a job.
And they will. At ****ing gunpoint.

You don't get it.

We have public schools some kids won't attend. We have trade schools some kids
won't attend. We already have federally funded job training they won't attend.
Sure, some show up, most don't. Why? Because you can't make people want to
better themselves if they don't want to. It doesn't work.

No, it doesn't make any sense to me either why a person will be handed a chance
at straightening out their situation and refuse to accept it. But it happens in
every city of this nation every day. Why do you suppose that is? (Hint: they
don't want to.)

I am so amused by the numbers of people who really believe you can throw money
at poverty and fix the problem. Forty years later, what do we have? More
homeless, illiterate poor people. But we're throwing a ****pot of money at the
problem, yet we still have the problem.

Know what is the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over
again expecting a different outcome.

Poverty isn't caused by lack of money in the same way a sneeze isn't a cold. The
lack of money is a symptom of the way a person thinks, his mindset. Untie that
knot and you can fix the problem. Here's an idea that can't be as stupid as
throwing money at the problem (which is already demonstrated to be a collossal
failure): force everyone to listen to Earl Nightingale's "Lead the Field" five
times in a row.

In New Orleans I've witnessed the same thing I have here in Houston: Vietnamese
families come to this country with nothing -- and I mean nothing -- not even
able to speak the English language. Yet, a couple of years later you see some of
these people owning their own grocery store, prospering, contributing. Now how
the **** does something like that happen? Hint: they want it more than life
itself to succeed, and they find a way to get it done. Because it can be done
when you have a burning desire to succeed. Without the desire, it cannot happen.

It's funny, really. If George W. Bush trotted into r.a.p. and began
pontificating about how best to engineer a session, he'd be run out on a rail.
Yet so many of you armchair presidents and assorted statesmen think you can put
on your asshat and know better how to run this country, think you have Bush all
figgered out. Apparently using your Superman x-ray vision glasses you see right
through that conservative ****-the-poor pay-off-our-supporters facade. Where
were you clear thinkers when Clinton was ****ing this nation in much the same
way he was ****ing Ms. Lewinsky? Or does that not count because he was a liberal
Democrat? Or it doesn't count because the jobless ratings were low while he was
****ing on the chance to get bin Laden on a silver platter, all the while
gutting the military and departments that provide security for this nation so
that minor irritations like 9/11 won't happen?

A shame this world is going to hell in a handbasket and we have, right here in
r.a.p. (or substitute some other newsgroup, it happens everywhere) the sum total
of the crystal clear thinking and incredibly well informed genius necessary to
fix it. Equally a shame that you have better intel and insight on world affairs
than the Oval Office, and the confidence in your conviction that the rest of the
world can go to hell, we'll spend our 87 billion right here in the USA. Hey,
some of you brilliant liberal thinkers wanted a "global community". Welcome to
the new world, gentleman, where your tax dollars get spread far and wide. Why
bitch about it now?

While you're spending your life energy hating your strawman Bush -- and every
other Republican fantasy your liberal brethren and most every college has
managed to get you to believe -- bitching and moaning and making all sorts of
unqualified, unsubstantiated accusations that fit your view of things, if you
believe the world is really ****ed up and you've got all the answers, don't tell
us about the labor pains, show us the baby.

John


  #67   Report Post  
nmm
 
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Default (OT)..... What Would You Do With $87 Billion Dollars??

On Mon, Sep 8, 2003 10:30 pm, Blind Joni wrote:
I do think we can hold the administration accountable for so
transparently taking ALL of our money, and then some, and handing it
out to a small group of friends.


I think we could all go along with better acountability.
I work with a lot of young rap artists from 2nd generation welfare

families
and
I often wonder who's brilliant idea it was to encourage the lifestyle I

come
in
contact with daily..short sited, greedy, impatient, disloyal,

irresponsible,
undependable, violent liars with children from multiple partners..talk

about
frustrating and hopeless. I guess it all goes back into the economy in

some
way.


Wasn't that the CIA operation Overlord, under Director John Deutch, that
was caught selling drugs in South Central LA? Combined with the Media
Images of Success being Shallow Materialism, and Foolish male Bravado.

There was some Rap band a few years ago that were rapping on top of
"Everyday People" by Sly and teh Family Stone, and the lyrics were about
taking someone out cause they disrespected the singer.

Looking at teh original song to the 90s version, really shows the shift in
ideals.












  #68   Report Post  
nmm
 
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Default (OT)..... What Would You Do With $87 Billion Dollars??

On Mon, Sep 8, 2003 10:48 pm, Blind Joni wrote:

Henry Ford's mentality is the same one that results in sweat shops where
kids are working 80 hours a week for pennies a day.


Well..mass production of any kind in it's infancy will probably yield this

for
a period of time. I guess pennies a day is better than none if that's the

only
choice.

This is the same kind of perspective that would have us deny China and
other
growing countries the ability to develope industry; and therefore jobs,
because
burning coal causes too much pollution. We had the chance to grow and
excel but
others can't? I would just like to know how better to go about it without
dictating.



You have to move the profits from the non working sectors to the working
sectors.
The National Council of Churches website lists companies that exploit 3rd
world labour.

Saying we should support China's "ability to develope industry" ignores
that guy who was standing in front of a tank in Tienaman Square a few years
ago. ( was he eventually crushed?)
Now that China has such trade deals with Walmart, the largest employer in
America, we ignore their human rights abuses, their records on labour
abuses etc?

Letting the third world destroy their enviorment isn't really helping
anyone. I know thereare a lot of Brasilian Forrestry Workers who hate the
enviormentalist movement. They told Sting to get lost on one of his trips
there/. But they are being short sighted wanting food on the table tomorrow
and not endless weeekends of fishing.


---------------------------------------------------------
"Our Nations Must Come Together To Unite"
- George W Bush - Tampa FL . June 4th -2001
---------------------------------------------------------



  #69   Report Post  
nmm
 
Posts: n/a
Default (OT)..... What Would You Do With $87 Billion Dollars??

On Tue, Sep 9, 2003 12:40 am, Joel Embry
wrote:
The Honda Civic Hybrid does not have to be plugged in. True it still uses
some
gas but much less than the same car with only a gasoline engine.

Joel




I looked at getting a Honda Insight.. The insurance was $3,000 a year up
from the $800 a year i pay for my RX-7 wich is a lot faster and more
dangerous.
They are being subverted one way or another


---------------------------------------------------------
"You Teach A Child To Read, And He Or Her Will Be Able To Pass A Literacy
Test"
- George W Bush - Townsend Tn . Feb 21rst -2001
---------------------------------------------------------



  #70   Report Post  
Chris Hornbeck
 
Posts: n/a
Default (OT)..... What Would You Do With $87 Billion Dollars??

On Tue, 9 Sep 2003 04:57:44 -0500, "John LeBlanc"
wrote:


Clinton ... was
****ing on the chance to get bin Laden on a silver platter,


Other rantage snipped, but this is a piece of history that
should not be allowed to be re-written. While Clinton was
president, the CIA had predators actively looking for Osama
bin Laden, with shoot to kill orders. This quietly ended
after the change of administration.

9/11


Two years later, why don't we have him?


Chris Hornbeck



  #71   Report Post  
LeBaron & Alrich
 
Posts: n/a
Default (OT)..... What Would You Do With $87 Billion Dollars??

Justin Ulysses Morse wrote:

Blind Joni wrote:


So this means that the government giving people money makes them not poor
anymore? Please explain this some.


I hope this example isn't too esoteric for you: The government pays
for the construction and staffing of a building where young people are
sent to be taught communication, analytic, and social skills that will
prepare them for a more productive and self-sufficient place in the
workforce and in society as a whole. Ideally, this Orwellian
institution teaches these kids how to make their own way, so they don't
end up a burden on the system through government assistance or
incarceration. Just how well it works is dependent in large part on
the resources (financial and otherwise) devoted to this far-fetched
plan.


Do you think it could work, or is this just throwing money at a problem
that's not rooted in money?


So you're saying that adding $87B to the education budget and _actually
sending it into the education system instead of just talking about it_
might help the US?

--
ha
  #72   Report Post  
John LeBlanc
 
Posts: n/a
Default (OT)..... What Would You Do With $87 Billion Dollars??


"Chris Hornbeck" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 9 Sep 2003 04:57:44 -0500, "John LeBlanc"
wrote:


Clinton ... was
****ing on the chance to get bin Laden on a silver platter,


Other rantage snipped, but this is a piece of history that
should not be allowed to be re-written. While Clinton was
president, the CIA had predators actively looking for Osama
bin Laden, with shoot to kill orders. This quietly ended
after the change of administration.


Really? Please present your proof of this allegation.

Meanwhile, I assume you are calling Bill Clinton a liar when, February 15, 2002,
in a public speech to the Long Island Association, Clinton admitted he spurned a
Sudanese offer to hand over bin Laden. (If you chose to disbelieve Clinton
himself -- which is perfectly understandable -- Sandy Berger admits the offer
was made.) The fact is, Bashir offered to arrest and extradite bin Laden -- or
at least baby sit him -- and provide intel on Hamas, Islamic Jihad and
Hezbollah. Clinton ignored the offer.

Feel free to make yourself more informed:
http://www.nationalreview.com/ijaz/ijaz042903.asp

By the way, audio tape of the speech Clinton made to the Long Island Association
backing up Ijaz's claims is available if you wish to review it yourself. Or not.
I know how some people feel about facts that interfere with their version of
history.


9/11


Two years later, why don't we have him?


Because bin Laden is either dead or hasn't been captured. Those would be my two
guesses. What's yours?

John


  #73   Report Post  
Blind Joni
 
Posts: n/a
Default (OT)..... What Would You Do With $87 Billion Dollars??

Now that China has such trade deals with Walmart, the largest employer in
America, we ignore their human rights abuses, their records on labour
abuses etc?


I just wonder..do we have a right or even a way to do anything about China's
polocies..really


?Letting the third world destroy their enviorment isn't really helping
anyone. I know thereare a lot of Brasilian Forrestry Workers who hate the
enviormentalist movement.


Again, I wonder..do we have a choice to "let" them do anything? Should we
develope alternative energy sources..if and when possible..and make them wait
until we get it to a level we consider safe? It would seem many more would
suffer and die in the meantime. It seems very confusing to me.





John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637
  #74   Report Post  
Blind Joni
 
Posts: n/a
Default (OT)..... What Would You Do With $87 Billion Dollars??

The Honda Civic Hybrid does not have to be plugged in. True it still uses
some
gas but much less than the same car with only a gasoline engine.


Yeah, I passed one on the highway yesterday..I thought he was parked!!


John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637
  #75   Report Post  
Artie Turner
 
Posts: n/a
Default (OT)..... What Would You Do With $87 Billion Dollars??

John LeBlanc wrote:

Meanwhile, I assume you are calling Bill Clinton a liar when, February 15, 2002,
in a public speech to the Long Island Association, Clinton admitted he spurned a
Sudanese offer to hand over bin Laden.


And you also assume the Sudanese could actually deliver Bin Laden.


Feel free to make yourself more informed:
http://www.nationalreview.com/ijaz/ijaz042903.asp


Yeah, there's nothing partisan in the NRO...



  #76   Report Post  
nmm
 
Posts: n/a
Default (OT)..... What Would You Do With $87 Billion Dollars??

On Tue, Sep 9, 2003 10:38 am, Chris Hornbeck
wrote:
On Tue, 9 Sep 2003 04:57:44 -0500, "John LeBlanc"
wrote:


Clinton ... was
****ing on the chance to get bin Laden on a silver platter,


Other rantage snipped, but this is a piece of history that
should not be allowed to be re-written. While Clinton was
president, the CIA had predators actively looking for Osama
bin Laden, with shoot to kill orders. This quietly ended
after the change of administration.

9/11


Two years later, why don't we have him?


Chris Hornbeck


Because Bechtel is in Bed with the Bin Ladens, check out their website most
of it is damage control for their Bin Laden connections.

Without Osama The Son of the Snake would have a nil chance of stealing a
2nd term.




---------------------------------------------------------
"Our Nations Must Come Together To Unite"
- George W Bush - Tampa FL . June 4th -2001
---------------------------------------------------------



  #77   Report Post  
LeBaron & Alrich
 
Posts: n/a
Default (OT)..... What Would You Do With $87 Billion Dollars??

Chris Hornbeck wrote:

wrote:


Clinton ... was
****ing on the chance to get bin Laden on a silver platter,


Other rantage snipped, but this is a piece of history that
should not be allowed to be re-written. While Clinton was
president, the CIA had predators actively looking for Osama
bin Laden, with shoot to kill orders. This quietly ended
after the change of administration.


9/11


Two years later, why don't we have him?


Because we don't want him; he's too good for business.

--
ha
  #78   Report Post  
George Gleason
 
Posts: n/a
Default (OT)..... What Would You Do With $87 Billion Dollars??


"Steve" wrote in message
om...
"George Gleason" wrote in message



First you have to have some "American business" to fix your bridge.
Your bridge is NOT a federal issue. It is a County issue. And if you
can't find someone to fix your bridge do it yourself. Start a business
and contract with your County to fix it. First get a business license,
invest in equipment, hire a couple of skilled union workers. Then
you're going to have to get workers comp insurance, vehical insurance,
and business insurance, rent a building, get a line of credit, and
get a telephone. Your bridge repair business insurance is probably
never going to be issued because you have no track record or they just
might not be writing new policies at this time. Just in case they do
offer a policy, the premiums will be so high that you won't get the
bid. Then you'll be out of business because you can't afford to work
that cheap. Your employees will apply for unemployment insurance
(which you pay) and claim stress problems for a workmans comp claim (
they lost their job).

Why should I have to pay for a City, County, State, or Federal
ineffficiancies? Unproductive workers? Fiscal waste? You pay for it
and I pay for it. Your bridge would be fixed if government wasn't so
top heavy. This is pure waste and should be cut off. It all starts at
the local level. 87 billiion dollars for a war is nothing and all you
seem to want is a bridge fixed. The money is in your own back yard.
Go find it. The bitch that your bridge can't be fixed is "dubbya's"
fault is just plain funny..........you guys are definately in the
entertainment business.

PS: Buy two or three fire extinguishers and smoke alarms. Put a plan
together for your family if there is a fire. (God forbid)

Steve


ROTFLMAO
good line of crap steve
george


  #79   Report Post  
Kurt Albershardt
 
Posts: n/a
Default (OT)..... What Would You Do With $87 Billion Dollars??

John LeBlanc wrote:

Apparently using your Superman x-ray vision glasses you see right
through that conservative ****-the-poor pay-off-our-supporters facade.


True conservatives are not the issue here. What we now know as neocons
are a different matter entirely.



Where
were you clear thinkers when Clinton was ****ing this nation in much the same
way he was ****ing Ms. Lewinsky? Or does that not count because he was a liberal
Democrat? Or it doesn't count because the jobless ratings were low while he was
****ing on the chance to get bin Laden on a silver platter, all the while
gutting the military and departments that provide security for this nation so
that minor irritations like 9/11 won't happen?


That started well before Clinton, and continued well into Bush 43--until
9/11 when the spending on certain line items was catapulted into the
stratosphere. Note that soldiers' families are still on AFDC and
Medicare while the "head of the household" is on deployment.

Please read Robert Baer's excellent "See No Evil" for a CIA ground
operative's view of the 1980's and 1990's Middle East terror game. No
political agenda (either side) just the cold hard facts as he and his
co-workers saw them, and damning to both sides of the aisle.




  #80   Report Post  
John LeBlanc
 
Posts: n/a
Default (OT)..... What Would You Do With $87 Billion Dollars??


"Artie Turner" wrote in message
. ..
John LeBlanc wrote:

Meanwhile, I assume you are calling Bill Clinton a liar when, February 15,

2002,
in a public speech to the Long Island Association, Clinton admitted he

spurned a
Sudanese offer to hand over bin Laden.


And you also assume the Sudanese could actually deliver Bin Laden.


And you assume they could not?



Feel free to make yourself more informed:
http://www.nationalreview.com/ijaz/ijaz042903.asp


Yeah, there's nothing partisan in the NRO...


Partisanship is part of life. If you think partisanship and honesty are mutually
exclusive, I suppose than means you are apolitical and read no newspapers, and
watch no news on television.

As for the National Review, and this story in particular, Ijaz has made a strong
case and Bill Clinton confirmed it. That's the topic. Disagree with any of this?
State your case and provide your evidence.

John


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