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#1
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BOSE the Final Chapter!!!
God, I've been following these BOSE threads for years and they always
end up reaching the same conclusions. For the record, I sold the beasts back in the late 70's early 80's as a sales weasel in a major audio salon in NYC. I had to pay for college somehow! Most customers returned them for something else, and yes we set them up properly as this was a very high end clientele. As a professional musician (keyboards) I have played many a gig with 802's and have done major events where the BOSE were the main system. I have heard the board ops screaming and swearing........ I have heard the radio and the Acoustimass systems... I have taken the 802's apart to re-foam the drivers (newfoam.com) and have seen how they are made. They are junk drivers. I have gone to the dog and pony shows where they play a juiced 1/2 track tape that makes the speakers sound wonderful. Bottom line is that the Bose are overpriced junk marketed to people who just don't know or should know better. They are nothing more than a collection of cheaply made drivers in a box coupled with an electronic eq to juice the sound and an advertising campaign designed to extract the maximum amount of money from wealthy wallets. IOW they suck.... The WaveRadio sucks too and so does the Lifestyle system or whatever that overpriced junk is called...... I'm sorry if I am offending anyone, but my experience is that you can spend the same amount of money and get a far better system than Bose will give you. If you happen to be a Bose owner and happy, God bless you and I wish you happy listening. snapper |
#2
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BOSE the Final Chapter!!!
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#3
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BOSE the Final Chapter!!!
Joseph Oberlander wrote:
wrote: They are junk drivers. The WaveRadio sucks too and so does the Lifestyle system or whatever that overpriced junk is called...... Interestingly enough, the same technology, though changed *just* enough to not get them sued can be found in the Cambridge Soundworks line. Of course, the BOSE equivalent models are the little computer speaker systems. You can get a $200 set on sale that's sonicaly equivalent to the Lifestyle setup, just minus a sound source. They sell one as well, but any CD/radio device will work just fine. But the most recent Lifestyle systems also have room eq, don't they? -- -S. "They've got God on their side. All we've got is science and reason." -- Dawn Hulsey, Talent Director |
#4
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BOSE the Final Chapter!!!
Steven Sullivan wrote:
But the most recent Lifestyle systems also have room eq, don't they? So does most any budget surround sound source. |
#5
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BOSE the Final Chapter!!!
Joseph Oberlander wrote:
Steven Sullivan wrote: But the most recent Lifestyle systems also have room eq, don't they? So does most any budget surround sound source. That's only becoming true *now*. When Bose put in in their HTiB, it was something different. -- -S. "They've got God on their side. All we've got is science and reason." -- Dawn Hulsey, Talent Director |
#6
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BOSE the Final Chapter!!!
Steven Sullivan wrote:
Joseph Oberlander wrote: Steven Sullivan wrote: But the most recent Lifestyle systems also have room eq, don't they? So does most any budget surround sound source. That's only becoming true *now*. When Bose put in in their HTiB, it was something different. Oh please. My Dolby Digital receiver in college had at least 20 surround sound equalization modes as well as digital delays for the speakers based upon position OR via a mic and a self-diagnostic pink noise test. 12 years ago. Bose just markets their techno-babble better. The tech is nothing special at all. |
#7
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BOSE the Final Chapter!!!
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#8
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BOSE the Final Chapter!!!
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#9
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BOSE the Final Chapter!!!
UnionPac2001 wrote:
wrote: Oh please. My Dolby Digital receiver in college had at least 20 surround sound equalization modes as well as digital delays for the speakers based upon position OR via a mic and a self-diagnostic pink noise test. 12 years ago. Bose just markets their techno-babble better. The tech is nothing special at all. There were Dolby Digital receivers in 1992? Software encoded in the DD (AC-3) format didn't become available until 1995 (iirc), on Laserdisc. So what would a Dolby Digital receiver circa 1992 been used for? Actually, it was an older Kenwood Pro Logic receiver with a ton of features. |
#10
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BOSE the Final Chapter!!!
Nousaine wrote:
In-situ equalization is completely different from "surround" modes applied to incoming program material. My old crummy receiver did both. |
#11
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BOSE the Final Chapter!!!
Joseph Oberlander wrote:
UnionPac2001 wrote: wrote: Oh please. My Dolby Digital receiver in college had at least 20 surround sound equalization modes as well as digital delays for the speakers based upon position OR via a mic and a self-diagnostic pink noise test. 12 years ago. Bose just markets their techno-babble better. The tech is nothing special at all. There were Dolby Digital receivers in 1992? Software encoded in the DD (AC-3) format didn't become available until 1995 (iirc), on Laserdisc. So what would a Dolby Digital receiver circa 1992 been used for? Actually, it was an older Kenwood Pro Logic receiver with a ton of features. I kinda doubt it had the processing horsepower of even the Lifestyle digital room correction engine. -- -S. "They've got God on their side. All we've got is science and reason." -- Dawn Hulsey, Talent Director |
#12
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BOSE the Final Chapter!!!
Steven Sullivan wrote:
Joseph Oberlander wrote: UnionPac2001 wrote: wrote: Oh please. My Dolby Digital receiver in college had at least 20 surround sound equalization modes as well as digital delays for the speakers based upon position OR via a mic and a self-diagnostic pink noise test. 12 years ago. Bose just markets their techno-babble better. The tech is nothing special at all. There were Dolby Digital receivers in 1992? Software encoded in the DD (AC-3) format didn't become available until 1995 (iirc), on Laserdisc. So what would a Dolby Digital receiver circa 1992 been used for? Actually, it was an older Kenwood Pro Logic receiver with a ton of features. I kinda doubt it had the processing horsepower of even the Lifestyle digital room correction engine. Then you don't realize how hopelessly average the Bose version of "surround sound" is. They were too cheap for a *decade* to even get a real DD decoder chip due to the (paltry) licensing fees. Q: does the current 3.2.1 GS one do DTS?(checks) As I thought. My $69 DVD player decodes it but this $1200 piece of junk doesn't? It doesn't even do dolby Digital, either - it has some sort of proprietary decoding scheme. The Lifestyle 35? $2799 is nuts. |
#13
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BOSE the Final Chapter!!!
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#14
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BOSE the Final Chapter!!!
Joseph Oberlander wrote:
Steven Sullivan wrote: Joseph Oberlander wrote: UnionPac2001 wrote: wrote: Oh please. My Dolby Digital receiver in college had at least 20 surround sound equalization modes as well as digital delays for the speakers based upon position OR via a mic and a self-diagnostic pink noise test. 12 years ago. Bose just markets their techno-babble better. The tech is nothing special at all. There were Dolby Digital receivers in 1992? Software encoded in the DD (AC-3) format didn't become available until 1995 (iirc), on Laserdisc. So what would a Dolby Digital receiver circa 1992 been used for? Actually, it was an older Kenwood Pro Logic receiver with a ton of features. I kinda doubt it had the processing horsepower of even the Lifestyle digital room correction engine. Then you don't realize how hopelessly average the Bose version of "surround sound" is. They were too cheap for a *decade* to even get a real DD decoder chip due to the (paltry) licensing fees. This is a separate issue from the Lifestyle system having *room calibration* as feature. I'm not particularly a fan of Bose (and I did own a pair of (901's in the 80's) But I've noticed that *true* Bose haters can't allow Bose *any* props. IN late 2001/early 2002, when the Adaptiq audio calibration system was rolled out, it *was* something new for HTiB.... and Sound & Vision reviewed it in their 'cutting edge' section. Q: does the current 3.2.1 GS one do DTS?(checks) As I thought. My $69 DVD player decodes it but this $1200 piece of junk doesn't? It doesn't even do dolby Digital, either - it has some sort of proprietary decoding scheme. Then again, the 3-2-1 is a *three-speaker* 'virtual surround' system, which *might* explain the use of proprietary decoding for DD *and* DTS sources -- the system can play both, according to the S&V review. But why are we talking about hte 3-2-1 system when I was talking about Lifestyle systems? Only the latter have the Adaptiq room calibration feature. The Lifestyle 35? $2799 is nuts. Agreed, but the intensity of loathing for Bose by some audiophiles also seems *unhealthy*. -- -S. "They've got God on their side. All we've got is science and reason." -- Dawn Hulsey, Talent Director |
#16
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BOSE the Final Chapter!!!
Steven Sullivan wrote:
This is a separate issue from the Lifestyle system having *room calibration* as feature. Mine does that too. It will do a self-diagnostic pink noise calibration. I think it's mostly crap, but the thing does have about 50 odd quirks and fancy settings and modes which I never really bother with. It was all the rage back in the early 90s to go techno-nuts, afterall. I'm not particularly a fan of Bose (and I did own a pair of (901's in the 80's) But I've noticed that *true* Bose haters can't allow Bose *any* props. IN late 2001/early 2002, when the Adaptiq audio calibration system was rolled out, it *was* something new for HTiB.... and Sound & Vision reviewed it in their 'cutting edge' section. But, sadly, it was nothing a ten year old receiver hadn't already done. Maybe for HTIB setups, but $1700 for a mid-fi solution is silly. You could get a 5.1 setup for $800 quite easily and still have $900 for a real DTS receiver. You'd only need $300-$400. But why are we talking about hte 3-2-1 system when I was talking about Lifestyle systems? Only the latter have the Adaptiq room calibration feature. I looked at them as well. Same silly proprietary circuitry. When the entire industry is using it as well as Lucas and Dolby and 100% of the theatres in the U.S... You wonder why Bose thinks they have a better solution. Lol. The Lifestyle 35? $2799 is nuts. Agreed, but the intensity of loathing for Bose by some audiophiles also seems *unhealthy*. Only because they really DO sound hopelessly average and cost like they are gold-plated. |
#17
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BOSE the Final Chapter!!!
Farrell8882 wrote:
From: Joseph Oberlander The Lifestyle 35? $2799 is nuts. Nuts is right. You could buy the Sony 685 DVD/SACD/CD player for $250, a nice set of Performance series Paradigms, and an appropriate 5.1 receiver for that money. It would sound better and you could play SACDs. I don't know if you could do a Magneplanar system for this much $, but I'll bet you know, Joe. $2799 would be almost enough. MMGs all around and a nice sub. $550*2 for the MMGs and ~$500 for the MMG center. Subwoofer is another $400. $2000 spent on speakers. http://www.outlawaudio.com/holiday-sale.html# Click on the 950B/7100 link. $1499. $3500. 7100: 7 x 165 watts @ 4 ohms, 20 - 20kHz, 0.05% THD, All Channels Driven I looked at every single under $1500 amplifier made and found nothing that would drive 7 4 ohm speakers. This is $899 new, and $799 as a demo/special unit. The $1499 combo deal has a seperate processor as well - by far the best "deal" out there. Toss in an ICBM(made by the same company). http://www.outlawaudio.com//products/icbm.html Made specifically for Magnepans. $249. Will drive 6 channels and digitally manage and crossover the bass from the receiver. Slickness. $1750 for all three items. If 5.1 is all you require, you COULD get the $300 a pair MMG-W setup. With a center, it's $900 for a 5.0 setup. Add a sub and you're at $1250 with some haggling. $3000 isn't bad, IMO - certainly it's better than the Bose at $2700. www.magnepan.com - click on the "new from Magnepan" flashing logo. They even come with intergrated piano hinges to mount them flush with the wall. Swing out when you want to use them. Me? I'd spend the Extra $750, though, and do MMGs. |
#18
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BOSE the Final Chapter!!!
Nousaine wrote:
Joseph Oberlander wrote: Nousaine wrote: In-situ equalization is completely different from "surround" modes applied to incoming program material. My old crummy receiver did both. Room EQ? Really. What microphone did they (you) use? It was a feature. Hook the supplied mic into it. I lost it and never used the worthless thing, but used the speaker distance settings instead. There must be... a grid of identical buttons. 5*12. 60 tiny buttons on the darn remote alone. There it is - test tone. And a mode selector. Half a dozen other features I don't remember what they do. Equalizer built in and surround modes and delay and... Heh. Totally overkill waste of techno-gadgets. Still, it's a good preamp. |
#19
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BOSE the Final Chapter!!!
"Joseph Oberlander" wrote in message ...
Steven Sullivan wrote: This is a separate issue from the Lifestyle system having *room calibration* as feature. Mine does that too. It will do a self-diagnostic pink noise calibration. I think it's mostly crap, but the thing does have about 50 odd quirks and fancy settings and modes which I never really bother with. It was all the rage back in the early 90s to go techno-nuts, afterall. snip If it's just automatic setting of an equalizer by using pink noise and a real-time analyzer, that is indeed old technology. I was starting to wonder from what had been posted here if Bose had actually implemented something newer, namely room compensation by DSP-based echo cancellation. Which is it? |
#20
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BOSE the Final Chapter!!!
Joseph Oberlander wrote:
Steven Sullivan wrote: This is a separate issue from the Lifestyle system having *room calibration* as feature. Mine does that too. It will do a self-diagnostic pink noise calibration. I think it's mostly crap, but the thing does have about 50 odd quirks and fancy settings and modes which I never really bother with. It was all the rage back in the early 90s to go techno-nuts, afterall. What model is this? -- -S. "They've got God on their side. All we've got is science and reason." -- Dawn Hulsey, Talent Director |
#21
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BOSE the Final Chapter!!!
L David Matheny wrote:
"Joseph Oberlander" wrote in message ... Steven Sullivan wrote: This is a separate issue from the Lifestyle system having *room calibration* as feature. Mine does that too. It will do a self-diagnostic pink noise calibration. I think it's mostly crap, but the thing does have about 50 odd quirks and fancy settings and modes which I never really bother with. It was all the rage back in the early 90s to go techno-nuts, afterall. snip If it's just automatic setting of an equalizer by using pink noise and a real-time analyzer, that is indeed old technology. I was starting to wonder from what had been posted here if Bose had actually implemented something newer, namely room compensation by DSP-based echo cancellation. Which is it? Adaptiq is a DSP. THe user takes automatic frequency response and level measurements from five positions, using hte Lifestyle system's headset, which contains microphones on each side. I'll quote the rest from S&V "Adaptiq takes the measurements from the different positions and comapres them with a model curve that Bose's research team dteremined provided a "perceptibly" flat frequency response for the system. It then creates an average response curve that compensates for the different locations. Basically, it looks at the data and makes tradeoffs to get the sound more in line with the model curve, pinpointing and eliminating the greatest sonic evils, such as extreme suck-outs or bass bumps (Unlike som e other more expensive DSP room correction systems that attempt to cure frequency and time-based errors separately, Adaptiq creates a composite correction curve for both direct and reflected sounds.) Then it uses digital equalization to alter the frequency response, phase, and level of the incoming signals." The reviewer reports improvement mainly in teh lower frequencies, in his trial of the system. -- -S. "They've got God on their side. All we've got is science and reason." -- Dawn Hulsey, Talent Director |
#22
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BOSE the Final Chapter!!!
L David Matheny wrote:
"Joseph Oberlander" wrote in message ... Steven Sullivan wrote: This is a separate issue from the Lifestyle system having *room calibration* as feature. Mine does that too. It will do a self-diagnostic pink noise calibration. I think it's mostly crap, but the thing does have about 50 odd quirks and fancy settings and modes which I never really bother with. It was all the rage back in the early 90s to go techno-nuts, afterall. snip If it's just automatic setting of an equalizer by using pink noise and a real-time analyzer, that is indeed old technology. Heh. It also sets digital delay and levels. I just do it manually as the remote has seperate up/down delay buttons and a selector for speaker - 1 min setup. I was starting to wonder from what had been posted here if Bose had actually implemented something newer, namely room compensation by DSP-based echo cancellation. Which is it? Nah - just a fancy version of the same old technology. |
#23
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BOSE the Final Chapter!!!
Steven Sullivan wrote:
Joseph Oberlander wrote: Steven Sullivan wrote: This is a separate issue from the Lifestyle system having *room calibration* as feature. Mine does that too. It will do a self-diagnostic pink noise calibration. I think it's mostly crap, but the thing does have about 50 odd quirks and fancy settings and modes which I never really bother with. It was all the rage back in the early 90s to go techno-nuts, afterall. What model is this? It's one of the old Kenwood KR-V7000 series. I tihnk it does a measely 65WPC RMS, which is why it's running my computer sound system currently. I use it as a glorified switchbox. |
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