So you see, when Noah tells you all he did was 'emerge ardour' he is
technically correct.
However, he left out a few minor details needed to install gentoo, the
Linux that uses the emerge command.

I assumed an installed system. You can't run setup.exe on a computer
that hasn't had windows installed either. Windows takes all day to
install also. You also still have to go out and hunt down drivers for
video and sound. Sometimes you can use what is on the system already,
but even when you buy your card and have a CD it usually has outdated
drivers with it. Some windows drivers can be a REAL pain to install.

Editing text files and such is how a lot of things are done in Linux.
To someone unwilling to try it may seem like it is difficult, but that
is hardly the case. It doesn't take long at all to get used to this
change. When I started using Linux it was a LOT harder and I had only
had my PC for a couple of months. I read the instructions and did what
they said, and obviously there is a wealth of instruction on what to
do. If you can read and follow directions there isn't much to worry
about. You then have a solid and stable system that requires minimal
maintenence and is fully capable of being used as a DAW.

But now we are going way outside the original argument. You guys just
keep slipping further and further from the point. The point is that
Linux is a very viable DAW. All this other crap, "It doesn't run
setup.exe," "I can't use my Pro-Tools only hardware," "It won't suck me
off," is just that. It is used by many people for digital audio work,
including myself.

Sammy wrote:
On Tue, 31 May 2005 12:21:52 -0700, Noah Roberts wrote:



'emerge ardour'


Yea and why don't you tell them about the week you spent installing
Gentoo?



I didn't even have the thing or its dependancies on my system. A little
while later my system had downloaded, compiled, and installed everything
I needed and I was in business.

This was on a 64 bit system even.


Sure, and this is what you had to go through to install gentoo Linux:


[snip]

Notice how 'Sammy' seems to think having to read or research is a bad
thing, but is perfectly willing to go looking for reasons not to use
linux DAW...

And he's quite aware Gentoo is among the more technical distributions,
one of the main purposes of it /is/ to make you have to /learn/ while
you install it, not simply view it as a point click and run exercise.

After installing Gentoo you will have a basic understanding of
filesystems, networking, what 'compiling' is and how it can benefit from
optimizations, you will also learn how to tweak your system so as to get
high performance without comprimising stability, and through pre-emptive
kernels and such, better latency.


And then you have a bunch of other things you have to set up in order to
get Gentoo Linux working.

Stage 1, Stage 2, Stage 3, lets whine about the effort required to take
the stairs, when the escalator and elevator are there as well shall we?


So you see, when Noah tells you all he did was 'emerge ardour' he is
technically correct.
However, he left out a few minor details needed to install gentoo, the
Linux that uses the emerge command.

So you see, when trolls tell you all they did was 'double click
setup.exe' he is technically correct.

However, he left out a few minor details needed to install Windows
[insert flavour here], the OS that uses the .exe extension.

"Noah Roberts" wrote in message

Do you use Protools, Samplitude,Cubase or similar on a daily basis in a
professional or semi-professional setting?

Nope. I have NEVER used any of those systems. I use Linux DAW only.
I have no need for any of the above programs. If I am happy with Linux
why would I need those? The logic of your point here fails me utterly.

You clearly have no clue of thye capabilities of a current state of the art
DAW then. And to be so proud of such a closed mind !!!

Linux DAW is MORE than adiquate for the home studio.

.... but crap at spell-checking....

Linux is even used
in pro applications. You can either try it or not. If you try it you
will either like it or not. I of course recommend you try...it costs
nothing to do so. The investment in time is no longer than learning
how
to use any other system.

And WIndows and Mac are more than adequate for a pro studio. And are used
daily in major recording facilities across the world.

Says you. Why should what you say matter? You don't even know what
you are talking about. Stick to what you know.

Great for somebody proudly proclaiming to never be willing to look at
current major applications in the real world.


If you say so. Hopefully everyone can see by now that you don't know
what you are saying anyway.

Yeah, right.

geoff

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message news:d7htm7
What is really sad about all of this stuff is that the operating systems
that _do_ really provide actual realtime functions to build a DAW around
are pretty much dead. Stuff like BeOS


Yeah, well BE bailed on us, eh.

geoff

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message

Things like disk defragmentation are an excellent example of the
annoyances
that Windows users have to put up with, that people in the rest of the
world don't really have to worry about.

The very occasion defrag (always when not otherwise in use) has never been a
problem , imposition, or even incovenience to me. And with current size and
speed PCs is not even as necessary as it once was.

geoff

Mike Rivers wrote:
In article writes:

LiveCD, no need to even install Linux:

I don't think dynebolic comes with ardour, at least it is not among its
advertized features.

Complete audio distribution:
http://www.agnula.org/ - free

Then of course you have Gentoo, which is not an audio distro but makes
creating a DAW very easy once you get past the install, which admitedly
takes some knowledge.

You can also modify Slackware, RH, and Mandrake with these pre-built
setups (all free):

So there you have it. It IS that easy.

Easy? You've listed six things, none of which I clearly understand is
a ready-to-go auido package. And you apparently haven't tried
something that you've listed.

So, where's the audio ready-to-bo audio appllication?

I can do no more to answer that than to list them. I have already done
so.

"Sammy" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 31 May 2005 15:51:03 -0400, reddred wrote:


"hank alrich" wrote in message
.. .
Noah Roberts wrote:

andy wrote:

It is only cheap if you put zero cost on your time.

In my experience it is still cheaper.

So you're saying your own time is worth less than zero. That won't work
for my grocery bill.


I remember spending a very long time getting my first Windows DAW
together,
and even longer on the first Windows 'Studio Computer' that did MIDI, 2
track audio, and (ghasp!) still image video capture. The only thing
worse
that I've ever had to do was work with Arcnet for PC networks.

jb

Things have changed a great deal.

That's my point.

jb


Most of the tweaks that 98 and even 2000 needed are no longer needed with
XP.
The only thing I do is turn off indexing, system restore and have my
virus/spyware scanners in "on demand" mode only.
Many people don't even find it necessary to go that far, but yes you are
correct at one time it was a real bear to get Windows and DAW programs to
play nicely together. That was one of the main reasons the Mac was/is
number one in the business.

"Sammy" wrote in message
news
So, the Linux standalone DAW might be mighty fine sitting there in a room
all by itself, but when it comes to interfacing with reality, it goes
down the drain.


Last I checked, a .wav file was a .wav file. And I have not once plugged a
scanner into my DAW. Why would I? The printers hang off the print server and
they all work fine from any machine in the house.

As far as a Linux DAW is concerned, with it's limited capabilities at this
point, it would simply be hard to market it in the face of the 'studio in a
box' functionality that new DAW users expect, even when it doesn't really
exist in the Windows world or any other.

jb

Sammy wrote:

And I can give you the parts listing and schematics from the back of my
Teac 3440 tape deck service manual.
In theory I suppose you could build your own.

You would have a hell of a time doing it however.

Again, it is quite obvious we are dealing with yet another anti-linux
whack job who cannot make a coherent argument. I honestly don't
understand what causes these people react the way they do to people
wanting to run Linux. Maybe they need to justify the expense they put
into their own software, which is often quite expensive. If only they
could just see that other people may not want to, or may not be able
to, pay so much and this in no way detracts from their own choices.
Instead they just lash out and come up with nonsensical statements like
the above to try and discredit the alternatives. Why they insist
everyone make the same choices as they do is beyond me.

Really, building a tape deck from scratch and installing an operating
system or piece of software have nothing to do with each other. They
are in totally different fields and require totally different types of
knowlege. It is quite rediqulous to compare them. None of these
people know what they are talking about when it comes to anything
regarding Linux. They just talk and talk and talk but say nothing.

Sammy wrote:
On Tue, 31 May 2005 12:53:47 -0700, Noah Roberts wrote:


Yes, Gentoo is a distribution meant for non-newbies that wish to go
totally custom. It is probably the hardest and most consuming install
of any Linux distribution. You need to know a lot to get to the point


So then don't try and mislead people who don't know any better.

Heh, bugger off looser. I ain't misleading anyone. On an already
installed system that is exactly what is done. The installation
procedure of operating systems has not been the debate here. It also
has absolutely no importance to wether or not Ardour and its friends
are a good setup for DAW.

If you are happy in windows that is fine. Other people are not. Linux
can be, and is, used for digital audio work. It does a fine job of it.

begin virus.txt.scr Sammy (flatfish) wrote:

On Tue, 31 May 2005 13:48:43 -0700, Noah Roberts wrote:



Sammy wrote:

And I can give you the parts listing and schematics from the back of my
Teac 3440 tape deck service manual.
In theory I suppose you could build your own.

You would have a hell of a time doing it however.

Again, it is quite obvious we are dealing with yet another anti-linux
whack job who cannot make a coherent argument.

That's the problem, I'm not arguing.
You are doing that.
I am also not anti linux.
Hint: take a look at my user-agent header field.


snip more flatfish droppings

Hi flatfish, you recently posted as

Aftab Singh, allison_hunt1969, Anna Banger, anonymous, Archie Watermann,
Baba Booey, Babu Singh, bill.gates.loves.me, bison, Bjarne Jensen,
BklynBoy, Boyce Mabri, Buster, Charles LeGrand, Charlie, Choppers McGee,
Christine Abernathy, Claire Lynn, Collie Entragion, Deadpenguin, Elliot
Zimmermann, Fawn Lebowitz, flatfish+++, foamy, Gary Stewart, gilligan, Greg
Finnigan, Greg Laplante, Heather, Heather69, hepcat, Ishmeal Hafizi, itchy
balls, Ivan Mctavish, IvanaB, Jeff Szarka, juke_joint, kaptain kaput,
kathy_krantz, Les Turner, Lilly, Lindy, Lisa Shavas, long_tong_ling, Lukumi
Babalu Aye, Major Mynor, McSwain, Moses, ,
nate_mcspook, okto_pussy, Paddy McCrockett, Patricia, Peter Gluckman,
Phillip Cornwall, phoung quoak, pickle_pete, Poopy Pants McGee, Quimby,
Richie O'Toole, Robert Strunk, rothstein_ivan, Saul Goldblatt, Schlomo
Smykowski, Sharon Hubbasland, Sean, Sean Fitzhenry, Sean Macpherson, Sewer
Rat, sewer_clown, Spammy_Davis, spanny_davis, Stephan Simonsen, Stephen,
Stephen Townshend, SuckyB, SunnyB, Susan Wong, Suzie Wong, Swampee, The
Beaver, Thorsten, Toby Rastus Roosovelt III, Tori Wassermann, Tracee,
trailerpark, Trina Swallows, Walter Bubniak, Wang Mycock, Whizzer, Wilbur
J, Willy Wong, Winnie Septos,Wobbles and zyklon_C.
Plus many, many, many more.


"Sammy" will be added now to the list

So much for your credibilty

Try instead stealing some more software. You are way better at that than at
this here
--
Linux: Because rebooting is for adding new hardware

It doesn't exist in the Linux world, at the professional level, however
and that is the entire point of this thread or so it seems.

This article is over a year old:
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/feb0...irrorimage.htm

I honestly don't
understand what causes these people react the way they do to people
wanting to run Linux.

And most of us in rec.audio.pro can't understand how you Linux preachers
can have the *audacity* to come into a professional group,

I am reading and posting in a Linux newsgroup.

"Noah Roberts" wrote:

I use Linux DAW only. I have no need for any of the above programs.
If I am happy with Linux why would I need those? The logic of your
point here fails me utterly.


I think the point was having a frame of reference. One cannot claim
that one thing is equivalent to another without having tried the other.

I have no problem whatsoever with you being happy with your Linux DAW.
I think that's great. However, you did say it was up to professional
standards, and that it compares favourably with more "typical" systems.
That would lead one to ask if you have sufficient experience with the
"standards" to make a meaningful comparison, that's all.

--
"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
- Lorin David Schultz
in the control room
making even bad news sound good

(Remove spamblock to reply)

Sammy wrote:

Tell me how I write off a week of downtime installing gentoo Linux?

Vacation time? Time speant watching TV? Time spent at the BBQ? I
don't think IRS would appreciate such writeoffs, but they would be the
most appropriate.


The point is, my sofware comes ready to run your's does not.

So you keep saying but it just isn't true.

You said yourself it took 2 days to get gentoo (stage 3 I believe, which
is the easiest to install) to install.

No, the easiest Gentoo to install is the GRP as I have said numerous
times. I have also stated numerous times that Gentoo is for special
users. Thick as a brick you are.

A pre-installed system is NOT appropriate for a major DAW unless it was
designed for that purpose. I can hire out design of Linux DAW also.
The fact that Windows came pre-installed on your system is either
indicative of a lack of specialized needs or that you paid for a custom
designed system. In other words this fact means nothing.

But YOU are the living, breathing, walking, talking expert and we are all
Linux ignorant?

I have yet to see anything from your side of the fence to indicate
otherwise. Everything has been false assumptions based on little to no
experince with the system.

Gee, that attitude is sure going to win you converts.

Not trying. Answering charges. Linux is capable of being used as a
very nice DAW. I am fully aware of the assumptions and full on
anti-linux bigotry among the "pro recording" croud. I do not presume
to assume to be able to change such closed minds. But when someone
posts to a Linux group telling someone interested in Linux for DAW that
it can't do it I must answer such misconseptions or down right lies.


Look, you tried to preach to the wrong crowd and you got called on your
preaching.
IOW you got caught.
Get over it and move on.

WTF are you talking about now? You guys are the ones comming to linux
groups saying how it can't do this or that and being totally wrong.
Bunch of asshats if you ask me.

Lorin David Schultz wrote:

I have no problem whatsoever with you being happy with your Linux DAW.
I think that's great. However, you did say it was up to professional
standards, and that it compares favourably with more "typical" systems.
That would lead one to ask if you have sufficient experience with the
"standards" to make a meaningful comparison, that's all.

I know it is used by pro studios. I have said SEVERAL times that I
don't use Windows DAW programs and never have. I have NEVER hiden this
fact. I have NEVER compared it to any other system. I don't know
where you guys come up with this. I think you guys just make up ****
to say I said so you can argue some point never made. Good luck with
that.

In article writes:

It's the
potential that intrigues me, and pretty soon, I think there will be select
applications that a Linux box is suitable for, at least comparable if not
better than the 'competition'.

Maybe that's what your crystal balls says. Mine says it won't happen
very soon. There are several reasons:

1. Linux applications, no matter how good, are of no use without
computers running Linux.

2. There aren't many computers running Linux, and most that are are
either in network/server applications or are fodder for
experimenters. There's no good reason for the "common user" to run
Linux when the computer that he buys at the department store
already has an operating system installed that will run hundreds of
audio applications, productivity tools, and games.

3. Without a strong OS support, only experimenters have the incentive
to develop special purpose applications, and they don't know when
they're finished. There's no potential for a commercial developer
here because Linux people aren't accustomed to paying for their
software (at least partly because they're part of the developoment
team.

Digidesign, Steinberg, Magix, and Cakewalk may decide to port their
flagship products to Linux some day, but not until they can make money
at it. I doubt that your typical Linux user would be willing to pay,
say $5,000 for a copy of Nuendo, just to avoid using Windows.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article . com writes:

The Linux community really needs to learn something about social skills
especially since it is the community itself that is supporting and flag
waving for Linux.

It's the classic nerd club. What do you expect from people who get
very little sleep and sustain themselves on pizza and Jolt Cola?

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article .com writes:

Well, Linux doesn't run 'exe' files so of course there is no Setup.exe
you can run. However, when I installed Ardour I did this:

'emerge ardour'

How strange. I guess you have to know something about Linux in order
to know that this is how you install a program.

By the way, which of the many newsgroups in which this is cross-posted
do you actually read? I hate to continue cross-posting when harassing
you.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article writes:

I'd have to say you haven't met any Linux users then.

I know two. One is the absolute classic nerd who only uses Linux on
computers that have to be small enough to fit in tiny places. He has
at least three different versions of Unix running on the nine or ten
continuously running computers in his home. This is just about all he
does.

The other is blind and uses DOS most of the time and Windows when he
has to. He just plays around with the Linux machine trying to learn
the OS.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Mike Rivers wrote:
In article .com writes:

Well, Linux doesn't run 'exe' files so of course there is no Setup.exe
you can run. However, when I installed Ardour I did this:

'emerge ardour'

How strange. I guess you have to know something about Linux in order
to know that this is how you install a program.

By the way, which of the many newsgroups in which this is cross-posted
do you actually read? I hate to continue cross-posting when harassing
you.

You can go ahead and post to alt.dev.null

I'll read it, I promise.

In article , Geoff Wood wrote:
1. For the typical user, dealing with viruses and/or spyware.

Not a problem, espcially on a DAW machine.

This line of the thread was about machines that are being used as
general-purpose machines in addition to being used as a DAW machine.

....
4. Keeping software up to date. With most Linux distributions and with
OS X, you don't need any third-party software for safe, effective basic
computer use. With Windows, you need to get a third-party browser

What ?

and email client, or at least get third-party add-ons to the bundled
browser and email client.

What ?

IE and Outlook Express have poor security, and lack features that most
people want. Hence, the proliferation of third-party add-ons and toolbars
and such, to turn them into something adequate.

Hell, it wasn't until SP2 that IE got popup blocking.

--
--Tim Smith

Sammy wrote:
On Tue, 31 May 2005 18:08:49 -0400, Mike Rivers wrote:


In article .com writes:

Well, Linux doesn't run 'exe' files so of course there is no Setup.exe
you can run. However, when I installed Ardour I did this:

'emerge ardour'

How strange. I guess you have to know something about Linux in order
to know that this is how you install a program.

And in other versions of Linux you would use rpm:


`rpm -i packagefilename` is the standard way of doing so.

This is basic. However, RPM will do many more things than just install
programs, thus all the other options. There are also many GUI wrappers
for this program. I don't like RedHat but what you are trying to say
is BS.

Talk about being misleading...

Sammy wrote:

On Tue, 31 May 2005 13:48:43 -0700, Noah Roberts wrote:



Sammy wrote:

And I can give you the parts listing and schematics from the back of my
Teac 3440 tape deck service manual.
In theory I suppose you could build your own.

You would have a hell of a time doing it however.

Again, it is quite obvious we are dealing with yet another anti-linux
whack job who cannot make a coherent argument.

That's the problem, I'm not arguing.
You are doing that.
I am also not anti linux.
Hint: take a look at my user-agent header field.


I honestly don't
understand what causes these people react the way they do to people
wanting to run Linux.

And most of us in rec.audio.pro can't understand how you Linux preachers
can have the *audacity* to come into a professional group, not being
professionals yourself, admitting you haven't even used professional
software like Protools etc and pitch Linux as if it is on the same level.
And then you post your half truths and stories that you never seem to be
able to back up with links and facts and expect us to believe them.
Do you honestly believe that some of us don't use Linux for other tasks
and haven't tried the various Linux audio applications at various time?

Maybe they need to justify the expense they put
into their own software, which is often quite expensive.

And a nice tax write off. Just save those receipts!
Tell me how I write off a week of downtime installing gentoo Linux?

If only they
could just see that other people may not want to, or may not be able
to, pay so much and this in no way detracts from their own choices.
Instead they just lash out and come up with nonsensical statements like
the above to try and discredit the alternatives.

You act as if there are no free/low cost programs for Windows.
It might come as a shock to you but, Audacity is available for Windows
platform as well.
You also ignore the fact that many soundcards come with lite versions of
software that are perfectly usable and IMHO, having actually used some of
them as well as their bigger brothers are better than anything I have used
with Linux.


Why they insist
everyone make the same choices as they do is beyond me.

Nobody is inisting anything of the sort.
YOU are the one throwing all this linux bullcrap out on the table and YOU
are the one that is being tarred in feathered due to your lack of
professional experience.

Maybe alt.4-track.studio might be a better crowd for you to evangelize to?


Really, building a tape deck from scratch and installing an operating
system or piece of software have nothing to do with each other. They
are in totally different fields and require totally different types of
knowlege.

The point is, my sofware comes ready to run your's does not.
You said yourself it took 2 days to get gentoo (stage 3 I believe, which
is the easiest to install) to install.

My Windows OS took 2 minutes to plug in the PC pre-loaded and boot it.


It is quite rediqulous to compare them. None of these
people know what they are talking about when it comes to anything
regarding Linux. They just talk and talk and talk but say nothing.

But YOU are the living, breathing, walking, talking expert and we are all
Linux ignorant?
Gee, that attitude is sure going to win you converts.

Look, you tried to preach to the wrong crowd and you got called on your
preaching.
IOW you got caught.
Get over it and move on.


I'm sorry to say this but Linux is a lot of fun to play with. It is a toy,
which is in no way a negative thing. I've been running Windows since the
beginning, and it's been a lot of fun, but since XP it is no fun any more.
It just works, on any hardware, and there is very little tinkering to be
done. Obviously I am vehemently opposed to the practices of Msoft just
trying to get everyone locked in to the Matrix, and I will have some fun
trying to avoid it. I am hoping that Linux comes up to the point that I'm
used to, but I don't see how it can, unless some kind of economic model
emerges. Again, I think that Linux is amazing for a free effort, but I
think it will lag behind whatever the current best selling OS is. I want to
get away from Windows, but I don't see that Linux will save me. I don't
want to become a programmer to make my OS do what I want it to.

Yes it is.
Windows already has a sound system installed.

An incredibly basic one. This is really quite pointless. You compare
unfairly. Pro-Tools did not come installed. ReWire did not come
installed. All your VST's and DirectX plugins did not come installed.
What *might* have come installed is a soundcard driver and a VERY basic
recording program and soundcard mixer control. Linux systems come with
a lot more installed than THAT.

You are still left with Linux DAW applications which are braindead.

Whatever. I happen to think they are rather nice. It has also become
evident to me that you don't actually know of what you speak.


No it doesn't.
I bought a bare-bones system with Winxp pre-loaded on the hard drive.
Asus/Intel/Mushkin/WD/Nvidia all the good stuff...
See above.

In other words this fact means nothing.

Yes it does.

Exactly what then? That you bought windows pre-installed. So? So you
didn't have to go through all the BS installing it and your drivers.
What bearing does that have here? Of what import are you putting into
this? Sure seems meaningless to me...why do you think otherwise? Did
you think I couldn't go buy a Linux system?

You had better read the thread again.
Several proflific posters from rec.audio.pro have made comments on your
lack of professional experience.

I been here from the beginning. You are now switching conversations
around. To reiterate, I was replying to your statement that I claim to
be a Linux expert and everyone else ignorant, which is untrue but
whatever. I responded saying that so far everyone speaking on the
matter has said things indicating a lack of experince with that system.
Now...what does your above reply have to do with that?

I *myself* have stated I do not have ANY experience with Windows or Mac
based DAW. It doesn't take a genious then to see that I am not an
expert in Windows or Mac based DAW.

Gee, that attitude is sure going to win you converts.

Not trying. Answering charges. Linux is capable of being used as a
very nice DAW. I am fully aware of the assumptions and full on
anti-linux bigotry among the "pro recording" croud. I do not presume to
assume to be able to change such closed minds. But when someone posts
to a Linux group telling someone interested in Linux for DAW that it
can't do it I must answer such misconseptions or down right lies.

Here comes the paranoia argument.
Get out the tin-foil hats!

Oh, so some troll did not post anti-linux crap into a linux newsgroup?!
How the hell did I read it in comp.os.linux.misc then?

Look Noah, there is no bigotry against Linux in the pro field.

There is always some group of individuals that will lambast anyone
posting that Linux does DAW. This is what is happening yet again here.
You happen to be one of them. EVERY time someone mentions Linux and
DAW a whole **** load of asshats pop out of the woodwork extolling the
virtues of $500 DAW software and how nothing else compares and Linux is
a "toy". Most have never even *seen* Linux. Some have seen it. Some
have used it for totally unrelated tasks and claim to know all about
the state of the art in Linux audio ... but haven't even tried any of
the apps since 1910. That would be like me saying I know all about
pro-tools because I browsed the web a few times with Windows 3.11.

This is a tough room and I'm sorry but you have not proven that Linux can
even come close to competing with the other products mentioned, and in all
honesty we have only scratched the surface.

I have NEVER compared them. I never did it. YOU and the rest of the
Winbozos are making the comparison, not I. I have simply stated that
Linux makes a good DAW. Pro studios use it, I use it, so can anyone
else. Those that claim that it cannot be used in the pro market are
either ignorant of the facts, liars, or just morons.

I guess maybe we are all reading this in different groups and I have no
idea where the original thread came from so I suppose we are both right.

You can't be right if you keep making false claims about the subject
and the opposition.

Ed wrote:


I'm sorry to say this but Linux is a lot of fun to play with. It is a toy,
which is in no way a negative thing.

Heh. Another winbozo asshat. Let me get a crowbar and I can help you
with your problem.

In article writes:

The biggest problem is in the support end of the business. Swee****er and
Carillon would now have to offer support to the people who purchase the
Linux boxen and sadly the public is quite ignorant of Linux and it's
disadvantages.

Yup. And they'd end up having to support Linux, not just the audio
software or the hardware they sell. This happens to most companies
that sell something that runs on a computer. A good bit of tech
support time is spent telling people how to do OS things.

Everyone talks price when they speak of Linux, but nobody seems to talk of
the lack of support for the product.

The suport is there among the users, but you see what kind of
"support" we get here on rec.audio.pro when we ask about how to
install and application. Well, you don't just get Ardour, you get Jack
and Gentoo and this and that install version of Linux (like the one
you have isn't good enough) and so on. And there are as many correct,
partial answers as there are responders.

Try calling your ISP and telling them
you have Linux and see what happens. Most will tell you it't not
supported, even though it will work fine.

I got that when I told my ISP that I was running Mozilla Thunderbird
for e-mail.

So, the Linux standalone DAW might be mighty fine sitting there in a room
all by itself, but when it comes to interfacing with reality, it goes
down the drain.

If I'm not mistaken, the RADAR runs under Linux or some form of Unix.
But their thing is management right at the operating system level. You
can do that with an open source OS.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article .com writes:

The point is that
Linux is a very viable DAW.

How do you define "very viable?" One thing that's important to me is
that I don't have any problem getting it running with what I know or
what I can learn very quickly. There are a lot of things about Windows
that I don't know, but I know how to look for and install drivers, and
I know (thanks to System Restore) how to easily unscrew anything that
I've screwed up.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article .com writes:

And most of us in rec.audio.pro can't understand how you Linux preachers
can have the *audacity* to come into a professional group,

I am reading and posting in a Linux newsgroup.

Then keep it there and quit cross-posting. We'd like a little peace
and quiet over here.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article . com writes:

I know it is used by pro studios.

Can you name one? Or two? Let us in rec.audio.pro judge how "pro" they
are.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article writes:

The biggest problem is in the support end of the business. Swee****er and
Carillon would now have to offer support to the people who purchase the
Linux boxen and sadly the public is quite ignorant of Linux and it's
disadvantages. I have a friend who was working his way through college
working in a big box store that sells Linux preloaded PC's. He would tell
me the war stories of irate customers returning them because they
thought the unit was a one for one swap with Windows machines. IOW they
were ****ed off when they couldn't use their Windows software and add on
hardware like printers and scanners with Linux.

You aren't in Brazil, are you? As I was reading the newsgroup this
evening I was listening to Marketplace on the radio. They had a piece
about how Brazil (one of the largest copyright violators in the world)
was opening up intellectual property. They're switching all the
Government computer systems to Linux, which one commentator believes
is short-sighted due to increased support cost. The projection is that
people who get free computers with Linux will eventually load
bootlegged copies of Windows so they can run the same applications
that others do.

Listen to the article at:

http://marketplace.publicradio.org/s...200505313.html

(there's some interesting general commentary about intellectual
property too)

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

"Jim Richardson" wrote in message news:9ppum2-
You skipped most of the steps with MS-Windows, first, you have to know
what it is you want to install, then, you have to *find* it, hopefully,
a recent version, not some package off in some backwater ftp site. Then
you have to download it, and *then* you can "click setup.exe"

Ah, Linux stuff appears spontaneously ?

Of course, now, you have little idea what was installed, or where, you
have to go through all this *again* if you want to upgrade it, likely
including removing the old ardour install ( something which goes wrong a
*lot* on MS-Windows) meanwhile, you may, or may not (likely not) have
any idea what was changed in the registry, or how it affected anything
else in that abomination.

You really don;t have much experience in the real world, do you .


Me? apt-get search DAW shows ardour-gtk as the first item returned, sudo
aprt-get install ardour-gtk does everything else. Fetches it, gets any
dependencies, tells me if I have something allready that would conflict
with it (not likely in this case, but in other packages, like an smtp
server, a possibility) and installs, configures and adds it to my menus.

Your way? search the internet for what you *hope* is a recent version,
grab it, install it, hope it didn't bugger up the registry, or spray
files all over your filesystem in wierd locations with no tracking of
what went where, then, if you want to update it later, go through it all
again. Every time you want to upgrade.

Que ?

Me? one command, or click of a list selection, and I am done, when
upgrading, it's taken care of, with the rest of the software on this
system.

I know what I prefer.

How can you have a preference if you have no clue of the options ?

Package management on MS-Windows, is barely above the equivilent of
chipping flint for a sharp point...

You really don;t have much experience in the real world, do you .

"Tim Smith" wrote in message

IE and Outlook Express have poor security, and lack features that most
people want. Hence, the proliferation of third-party add-ons and toolbars
and such, to turn them into something adequate.

Au contraire. I have never had a problem with IE, and after trying most of
the other major Win USENET clients have reverted to Outlook Experss.

Of course any of these applications would be better in their Linux versions
or equivalents ...

geoff

"Noah Roberts" wrote in message
oups.com...

So you see, when Noah tells you all he did was 'emerge ardour' he is
technically correct.
However, he left out a few minor details needed to install gentoo, the
Linux that uses the emerge command.

I assumed an installed system. You can't run setup.exe on a computer
that hasn't had windows installed either. Windows takes all day to
install also. You also still have to go out and hunt down drivers for
video and sound. Sometimes you can use what is on the system already,
but even when you buy your card and have a CD it usually has outdated
drivers with it. Some windows drivers can be a REAL pain to install.

You have no expereince of Windows in the last 4 years or so then ?

Editing text files and such is how a lot of things are done in Linux.
To someone unwilling to try it may seem like it is difficult, but that
is hardly the case.

Never have had to edit any sort of file to install or update a Windows
driver or application.

geoff

"Noah Roberts" wrote in message
ups.com...
l.

I know it is used by pro studios. I have said SEVERAL times that I
don't use Windows DAW programs and never have. I have NEVER hiden this
fact. I have NEVER compared it to any other system. I don't know
where you guys come up with this. I think you guys just make up ****
to say I said so you can argue some point never made. Good luck with
that.


That's funny. Everybody here seems to be under the impression you were
claiming something along the lines that Ardour was at least the equal of
ProTools , Cubase, or Samplitude.

geoff

Sammy writes:

snip
Just for the record, he was asked how to install ardour.
He posted 'emerge ardour' which for gentoo is the way to do it.

What he forgot to mention was that gentoo takes days to install and set up
and requires a lot of the user to maintain.
IOW he was misleading people who don't realize that.
Gentoo is NOT a distribution the average person should try.

So, even on what is considered to be the most time-intensive distribution,
installing a new package takes only a single short command line. Yep, that
just goes and condemns the Linux operating system for me. I'll just go
on back to Windows, because their package manager handles all the
applications installed without a problem... oh wait.

Digi
--
It's later than you think.

On 2005-05-31, Waldo wrote:
On Mon, 30 May 2005 18:37:28 -0700, Noah Roberts wrote:

Geoff Wood wrote:

Nothing to do with Linux - we are talking about an application here -
Ardour. A particularly lame application when compared with current
state-of-the-art.

Again, how would you know? How is it lame?

Well, I wouldn't call Ardour lame, but it is not in the same league as
even the lite versions of Cubase, Sonar or Samplitude.
Just 10 minutes using Ardour is more than enough to prove that point.
Waldo

...None of which does anything to demonstrate to anyone that you've
ever touched any of the four applications in question.

It's all just empty talk backed up by absolutely nothing.

--
The best OS in the world is ultimately useless |||
if it is controlled by a Tramiel, Jobs or Gates. / | \

After scores of posts from the Linux community the lack of any
reference to non-geek package of Linux and an audio app (like
Audacity, etc.) seems notable. How about it, gentlemen? A URL?

This thread is going just as all the previous ones have... a great
deal of heat and virtually no light.

In article ,
"Geoff Wood" wrote:
IE and Outlook Express have poor security, and lack features that most
people want. Hence, the proliferation of third-party add-ons and toolbars
and such, to turn them into something adequate.

Au contraire. I have never had a problem with IE, and after trying most of
the other major Win USENET clients have reverted to Outlook Experss.

I've never had a problem with IE, either. That doesn't negate that fact
that it is poor security. I'm not a typical user, and neither are you,
I suspect. In the hands of a typical user, the situation is grim. Much
more so than on Linux or OS X.

--
--Tim Smith

JEDIDIAH wrote:


It's all just empty talk backed up by absolutely nothing.



You're introspective, I'll grant you that.