[Tobiah]

When Windows 10 first became available through its nagging
upgrade notification, I backed up my long-time running Windows 7
machine, and went for it. The first thing that I was interested
in was testing audio latency. I fired up a favorite diagnostic
tool, dpclat.exe. To my dismay, it was reporting numbers that
were double what I enjoyed under Windows 7. I tried some tweaks,
gave up, and restored my Windows 7 install.

Recently I gave it another shot. I ran dpclat.exe and still saw
the same high numbers, and a solid yellow graph indicating marginal
realtime performance. I still tested some tracks in Reaper and
found that things worked as well as they used to, and I could still
comforatably use my buffer setting of 128 samples at 44100Hz. I
decided to keep Windows 10, dpclat.exe be damned.

So today I thought I'd try to get to the bottom of this. From
the dpclat website:

Windows 8 Compatibility: The DPC latency utility runs on
Windows 8 but does not show correct values. The output
suggests that the Windows 8 kernel performs badly and
introduces a constant latency of one millisecond, which is
not the case in practice. DPCs in the Windows 8 kernel
behave identical to Windows 7. The utility produces
incorrect results because the implementation of kernel
timers has changed in Windows 8, which causes a side effect
with the measuring algorithm used by the utility. Thesycon
is working on a new version of the DPC latency utility and
will make it available on this site as soon as it is
finished.

So there you are. I next tried a program that I rarely run because
I always fail its check: LatencyMon from resplendence.com. I've
never been able to run that program without it jumping red in a
couple of minutes. I tried it under Windows 10, and I'm getting
very low numbers - same machine that failed under many fresh installs
of Windows 7. BTW, it's a relatively old machine, sporting an
AMD Phenom II X4 910 processor. Note: I haven't installed Nvidia's
drivers for my video card yet, which leaves a leaf unturned, as I
used to suspect them of being the latency culprit. Someday I'll
try a Mac.

So I have old audio interfaces. An Echo Mia MIDI and an M-Audio
Fast Track Ultra. Both drivers installed fine, but I had to
configure the Mia MIDI control panel to run in compatibility mode
to get it to run. All is well now.

Anyway, I'm happy I made the move.

[[email protected]]

On Tuesday, June 6, 2017 at 7:45:01 PM UTC-4, Tobiah wrote:
When Windows 10 first became available through its nagging
upgrade notification, I backed up my long-time running Windows 7
machine, and went for it. The first thing that I was interested
in was testing audio latency. I fired up a favorite diagnostic
tool, dpclat.exe. To my dismay, it was reporting numbers that
were double what I enjoyed under Windows 7. I tried some tweaks,
gave up, and restored my Windows 7 install.

Recently I gave it another shot. I ran dpclat.exe and still saw
the same high numbers, and a solid yellow graph indicating marginal
realtime performance. I still tested some tracks in Reaper and
found that things worked as well as they used to, and I could still
comforatably use my buffer setting of 128 samples at 44100Hz. I
decided to keep Windows 10, dpclat.exe be damned.

So today I thought I'd try to get to the bottom of this. From
the dpclat website:

Windows 8 Compatibility: The DPC latency utility runs on
Windows 8 but does not show correct values. The output
suggests that the Windows 8 kernel performs badly and
introduces a constant latency of one millisecond, which is
not the case in practice. DPCs in the Windows 8 kernel
behave identical to Windows 7. The utility produces
incorrect results because the implementation of kernel
timers has changed in Windows 8, which causes a side effect
with the measuring algorithm used by the utility. Thesycon
is working on a new version of the DPC latency utility and
will make it available on this site as soon as it is
finished.

So there you are. I next tried a program that I rarely run because
I always fail its check: LatencyMon from resplendence.com. I've
never been able to run that program without it jumping red in a
couple of minutes. I tried it under Windows 10, and I'm getting
very low numbers - same machine that failed under many fresh installs
of Windows 7. BTW, it's a relatively old machine, sporting an
AMD Phenom II X4 910 processor. Note: I haven't installed Nvidia's
drivers for my video card yet, which leaves a leaf unturned, as I
used to suspect them of being the latency culprit. Someday I'll
try a Mac.

So I have old audio interfaces. An Echo Mia MIDI and an M-Audio
Fast Track Ultra. Both drivers installed fine, but I had to
configure the Mia MIDI control panel to run in compatibility mode
to get it to run. All is well now.

Anyway, I'm happy I made the move.

I'm really glad you are happy. But, for me, the further I stay away from Microsoft updates, versions, etc., the better.

Even Russia and others seem to fear Microsoft invading privacy and I can't blame them one iota.

Uni

[Tobiah]

I'm really glad you are happy. But, for me, the further I stay away from Microsoft updates, versions, etc., the better.

Even Russia and others seem to fear Microsoft invading privacy and I can't blame them one iota.

Well I did go through and turn off the invasive stuff that they
expose to the user anyway. Looking forward, considering your
cell phone and various computers and new devices coming, do
you really envision protecting your privacy somehow by refusing
software updates that will eventually deliver functionality that
will be imperative to your functioning in the society? I mean, do you
intend to become a 'tinfoil hat' individual?

[Scott Dorsey]

In article , Tobiah wrote:
Well I did go through and turn off the invasive stuff that they
expose to the user anyway. Looking forward, considering your
cell phone and various computers and new devices coming, do
you really envision protecting your privacy somehow by refusing
software updates that will eventually deliver functionality that
will be imperative to your functioning in the society? I mean, do you
intend to become a 'tinfoil hat' individual?

By all means I intend to refuse any updates that don't deliver functionality
I absolutely need. I want a DAW system, if it cannot be an appliance, to at
least be frozen and static so I get no strange surprises in the middle of a
session. And no, I don't want it on the public network. Not even a little.
Don't even think about it.

If my functioning in society requires me to be installing Windows updates
constantly, perhaps I will become a hermit on a mountaintop.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Tobiah]

If my functioning in society requires me to be installing Windows updates
constantly, perhaps I will become a hermit on a mountaintop.

I hear your plea for a stable DAW system that you update only when
you want to.

[Nil[_2_]]

On 06 Jun 2017, Tobiah wrote in rec.audio.pro:

So there you are. I next tried a program that I rarely run because
I always fail its check: LatencyMon from resplendence.com. I've
never been able to run that program without it jumping red in a
couple of minutes. I tried it under Windows 10, and I'm getting
very low numbers - same machine that failed under many fresh installs
of Windows 7.

.... (snip) ...

So I have old audio interfaces. An Echo Mia MIDI and an M-Audio
Fast Track Ultra. Both drivers installed fine, but I had to
configure the Mia MIDI control panel to run in compatibility mode
to get it to run. All is well now.

Anyway, I'm happy I made the move.

Thanks for looking into this. My main recording machine still runs XP,
but I plan to up it to Windows 7 soon. I have a crummy old netbook that
is running Win10 that I've surprised to have running Reaper with very
low latency using ASIO drivers. As suspicious as I remain of Windows
10, at least I feel comfortable that its audio performance is decent.
The day will come when I'll have to go to Win10-or-whatever-will-be-
its-successor or change over to some other OS and give up all my
familiar tools. But that moment will hopefully be a long way off.

[[email protected]]

On Tuesday, June 6, 2017 at 7:59:19 PM UTC-4, Tobiah wrote:
I'm really glad you are happy. But, for me, the further I stay away from Microsoft updates, versions, etc., the better.

Even Russia and others seem to fear Microsoft invading privacy and I can't blame them one iota.

Well I did go through and turn off the invasive stuff that they
expose to the user anyway. Looking forward, considering your
cell phone and various computers and new devices coming, do
you really envision protecting your privacy somehow by refusing
software updates that will eventually deliver functionality that
will be imperative to your functioning in the society? I mean, do you
intend to become a 'tinfoil hat' individual?

Funny!! :-)

But I like how Microsoft treats users like they are idiots. You know, sorry, stupid, you can't place that type file here!

I used to enjoy DOS. But as many claimed, people can't remember a handful of commands to save their life.

Enjoy, I guess.

Jack

[Tobiah]

On 6/6/17 5:20 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
In article , Tobiah wrote:
Well I did go through and turn off the invasive stuff that they
expose to the user anyway. Looking forward, considering your
cell phone and various computers and new devices coming, do
you really envision protecting your privacy somehow by refusing
software updates that will eventually deliver functionality that
will be imperative to your functioning in the society? I mean, do you
intend to become a 'tinfoil hat' individual?

By all means I intend to refuse any updates that don't deliver functionality
I absolutely need. I want a DAW system, if it cannot be an appliance, to at
least be frozen and static so I get no strange surprises in the middle of a
session. And no, I don't want it on the public network. Not even a little.
Don't even think about it.

If my functioning in society requires me to be installing Windows updates
constantly, perhaps I will become a hermit on a mountaintop.
--scott


You guys are trying to beat back the ocean with a broom.
I'm not saying I don't admire you for trying.

[Ron C[_2_]]

On 6/6/2017 9:07 PM, Tobiah wrote:
On 6/6/17 5:20 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
In article , Tobiah
wrote:
Well I did go through and turn off the invasive stuff that they
expose to the user anyway. Looking forward, considering your
cell phone and various computers and new devices coming, do
you really envision protecting your privacy somehow by refusing
software updates that will eventually deliver functionality that
will be imperative to your functioning in the society? I mean, do you
intend to become a 'tinfoil hat' individual?

By all means I intend to refuse any updates that don't deliver
functionality
I absolutely need. I want a DAW system, if it cannot be an appliance,
to at
least be frozen and static so I get no strange surprises in the middle
of a
session. And no, I don't want it on the public network. Not even a
little.
Don't even think about it.

If my functioning in society requires me to be installing Windows updates
constantly, perhaps I will become a hermit on a mountaintop.
--scott


You guys are trying to beat back the ocean with a broom.
I'm not saying I don't admire you for trying.

---

Relax. We're all very old and will be dying off (relatively) soon.
In the mean time we'll just tread water as needed.
--
==
Later...
Ron Capik
--


---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

[[email protected]]

On Tuesday, June 6, 2017 at 9:07:18 PM UTC-4, Tobiah wrote:
On 6/6/17 5:20 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
In article , Tobiah wrote:
Well I did go through and turn off the invasive stuff that they
expose to the user anyway. Looking forward, considering your
cell phone and various computers and new devices coming, do
you really envision protecting your privacy somehow by refusing
software updates that will eventually deliver functionality that
will be imperative to your functioning in the society? I mean, do you
intend to become a 'tinfoil hat' individual?

By all means I intend to refuse any updates that don't deliver functionality
I absolutely need. I want a DAW system, if it cannot be an appliance, to at
least be frozen and static so I get no strange surprises in the middle of a
session. And no, I don't want it on the public network. Not even a little.
Don't even think about it.

If my functioning in society requires me to be installing Windows updates
constantly, perhaps I will become a hermit on a mountaintop.
--scott


You guys are trying to beat back the ocean with a broom.
I'm not saying I don't admire you for trying.

And, WTF, Microsoft "Do Not Turn Off Your Computer!". They care less about wasting my time and energy.

I'm with Nil, use XP Home on a 15 year old Acer laptop, not connected to internet. I can boot-up and down, like lighting, compared to later, ahem, advanced, sluggish OSs. Tell Bill Gates, buzz off!!

Jack

[Gray_Wolf]

On 6/6/2017 7:20 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
In article , Tobiah wrote:
Well I did go through and turn off the invasive stuff that they
expose to the user anyway. Looking forward, considering your
cell phone and various computers and new devices coming, do
you really envision protecting your privacy somehow by refusing
software updates that will eventually deliver functionality that
will be imperative to your functioning in the society? I mean, do you
intend to become a 'tinfoil hat' individual?

By all means I intend to refuse any updates that don't deliver functionality
I absolutely need. I want a DAW system, if it cannot be an appliance, to at
least be frozen and static so I get no strange surprises in the middle of a
session. And no, I don't want it on the public network. Not even a little.
Don't even think about it.

If my functioning in society requires me to be installing Windows updates
constantly, perhaps I will become a hermit on a mountaintop.
--scott


I've been running Win7 x64 since the beta release. I disabled updates a few
years back. Something in the update module was stealing 50% CPU and
never completing the update. I figured it had been working fine for years
and I had no hardware upgrades so what is the update supposed to fix?
Never had any security problems either.

I've tried several versions of Win10 and couldn't see a single reason to change.
On top of that my 10 year old AMD X2 and Intel 4 core run better than my sisters
new Toshiba laptops. I could use more speed when working with raw 25mega
pixel photo files but its no biggie.




---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

[Jason[_15_]]

[This followup was posted to rec.audio.pro and a copy was sent to the
cited author.]

In article ,
says...
I can boot-up and down, like lighting, compared to later, ahem, advanced, sluggish OSs.


Win 10 boots MUCH faster than any previous version I've tried. That
said, the "Don't turn off your computer" warning when shutting down
drives me crazy. Fortunately, it doesn't happen very often...but when it
does! In the Win 10 newsgroup, folks have reported on what happens when
they ignore the warning and kill power because the plane is about to
finish boarding. It usually results in a corrupt state that requires
considerable magic to unwind later.