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#81
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Recommend a Replacement Speaker for JBL Control 12SR?
On 10/02/2017 4:36 AM, Paul wrote:
I'll tell you what else! The tweeter horn is "A Product of Peavey Electronics," with NO crossover in sight, except a 5.6uF cap in series! That *IS* a 6db/oct High pass filter/crossover! The absolute minimum required to stop the horn instantly blowing up of course. I wonder what happened to all the original JBL parts though. I'll probably sell this, and get a new or newer JBL or Mackie cab. I sure hope you don't try to pass it off as a JBL 12SR then. Trevor. |
#82
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Recommend a Replacement Speaker for JBL Control 12SR?
On 10/02/2017 10:59 AM, Mike Rivers wrote:
On 2/9/2017 6:22 PM, Paul wrote: Would getting a cheap speaker crossover on Ebay possibly clean up the sound a bit? Again, it only has a 5.6uF cap in series with the tweeters..... Doubt it. The capacitor protects the tweeter from getting woofed at. The woofer won't reproduce the tweets, so the only other thing you can add to it is an inductor to keeps the tweets from wasting some power trying to drive the woofer, not much to gain there. From his description there may well be something to gain by getting rid of some midrange going to the woofer, which is probably part of the crook midrange he is describing. May well be a big midrange peak with both speakers operating in that band if the woofer isn't naturally rolling off quick enough for such a simple xover network. Add to that the horn is probably far more efficient than the woofer and thus would need to be attenuated, NOT just a capacitor. However having no original JBL parts and no ability to test it properly in it's new guise sounds like an audio nightmare to me. Looks like he is just going to inflict it on some other poor sap. Trevor. |
#83
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Recommend a Replacement Speaker for JBL Control 12SR?
On 2/9/2017 9:26 PM, Trevor wrote:
On 10/02/2017 4:36 AM, Paul wrote: I'll tell you what else! The tweeter horn is "A Product of Peavey Electronics," with NO crossover in sight, except a 5.6uF cap in series! That *IS* a 6db/oct High pass filter/crossover! The absolute minimum required to stop the horn instantly blowing up of course. Of course you are correct, that's a first order high pass filter, -6dB/Octave or -20 dB/decade. But my idea of a proper crossover includes some low pass filtering to the woofer, of which there is absolutely nothing in this cab at all! I wonder what happened to all the original JBL parts though. Probably taken out with the original JBL tweeters, when they blew out! I'll probably sell this, and get a new or newer JBL or Mackie cab. I sure hope you don't try to pass it off as a JBL 12SR then. I won't. I'll probably keep this for my own usage. You don't need high end equipment to have a backyard jam session! |
#84
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Recommend a Replacement Speaker for JBL Control 12SR?
On 2/9/2017 9:39 PM, Trevor wrote:
On 10/02/2017 10:59 AM, Mike Rivers wrote: On 2/9/2017 6:22 PM, Paul wrote: Would getting a cheap speaker crossover on Ebay possibly clean up the sound a bit? Again, it only has a 5.6uF cap in series with the tweeters..... Doubt it. The capacitor protects the tweeter from getting woofed at. The woofer won't reproduce the tweets, so the only other thing you can add to it is an inductor to keeps the tweets from wasting some power trying to drive the woofer, not much to gain there. From his description there may well be something to gain by getting rid of some midrange going to the woofer, which is probably part of the crook midrange he is describing. May well be a big midrange peak with both speakers operating in that band if the woofer isn't naturally rolling off quick enough for such a simple xover network. Add to that the horn is probably far more efficient than the woofer and thus would need to be attenuated, NOT just a capacitor. However having no original JBL parts and no ability to test it properly in it's new guise sounds like an audio nightmare to me. Looks like he is just going to inflict it on some other poor sap. Does anyone have a schematic of the original, sweep-able crossover for this cab? I was not able to find anything on the net... |
#85
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Recommend a Replacement Speaker for JBL Control 12SR?
Paul wrote:
the horn is probably far more efficient than the woofer and thus would need to be attenuated, NOT just a capacitor. However having no original JBL parts and no ability to test it properly in it's new guise sounds like an audio nightmare to me. Looks like he is just going to inflict it on some other poor sap. Does anyone have a schematic of the original, sweep-able crossover for this cab? ** The JBL x-over is not "sweepable". You do not have the original JBL components, so have no need to duplicate the original x-over. Designing a suitable x-over is a job for someone with expertise - so not you. ..... Phil |
#86
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Recommend a Replacement Speaker for JBL Control 12SR?
On 2/9/2017 10:19 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
Paul wrote: the horn is probably far more efficient than the woofer and thus would need to be attenuated, NOT just a capacitor. However having no original JBL parts and no ability to test it properly in it's new guise sounds like an audio nightmare to me. Looks like he is just going to inflict it on some other poor sap. Does anyone have a schematic of the original, sweep-able crossover for this cab? ** The JBL x-over is not "sweepable". There was a pot to adjust the high end roll off, so that's sweepable, you dumb****! You do not have the original JBL components, so have no need to duplicate the original x-over. Designing a suitable x-over is a job for someone with expertise - so not you. **** you, bitch. I've designed RF filters, so this wouldn't be a huge stretch. And if you took your ****ed up head out of your ass, you would realize I was ASKING FOR A ****ING SCHEMATIC, WHICH IS ALREADY DESIGNED, DUMB****! BOY, YOU ARE STUPID! |
#87
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Recommend a Replacement Speaker for JBL Control 12SR?
Paul the Nutter wrote:
Does anyone have a schematic of the original, sweep-able crossover for this cab? ** The JBL x-over is not "sweepable". There was a pot to adjust the high end roll off, ** Wrong. There was an attenuator for tweeter level. so that's sweepable, ** Like hell. you dumb****! ** You are a lying, brain dead pig. You do not have the original JBL components, so have no need to duplicate the original x-over. Designing a suitable x-over is a job for someone with expertise - so not you. **** you, bitch. ** You are worse the a stupid, lying pig. I've designed RF filters, ** No you haven't. so this wouldn't be a huge stretch. ** It's way beyond an asswipe like you. And if you took your ****ed up head out of your ass, you would realize I was ASKING FOR A ****ING SCHEMATIC, WHICH IS ALREADY DESIGNED, DUMB****! ** I pointed out why it is NO use to you. You stupid, lying, ****ing asswipe. ..... Phil |
#88
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Recommend a Replacement Speaker for JBL Control 12SR?
On 2/9/2017 10:57 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
Paul the Nutter wrote: Does anyone have a schematic of the original, sweep-able crossover for this cab? ** The JBL x-over is not "sweepable". There was a pot to adjust the high end roll off, ** Wrong. There was an attenuator for tweeter level. Perhaps. Do you have a sample schematic that shows this? so that's sweepable, ** Like hell. you dumb****! ** You are a lying, brain dead pig. You do not have the original JBL components, so have no need to duplicate the original x-over. Designing a suitable x-over is a job for someone with expertise - so not you. **** you, bitch. ** You are worse the a stupid, lying pig. I've designed RF filters, ** No you haven't. Yes, I have, using ADS and Microwave Office. Edge-coupled filters on alumina stable. Lumped element filters too. 0.5-40 GHz. so this wouldn't be a huge stretch. ** It's way beyond an asswipe like you. Audio frequencies are a cakewalk compared to GHz! And if you took your ****ed up head out of your ass, you would realize I was ASKING FOR A ****ING SCHEMATIC, WHICH IS ALREADY DESIGNED, DUMB****! ** I pointed out why it is NO use to you. You stupid, lying, ****ing asswipe. Hahaha! I know your type well! An old fart, way past his prime, and DESPERATE FOR ATTENTION BECAUSE HE NEVER MADE A MARK ON THE INDUSTRY! Ok, since you are so desperate to show off: Tell us how you would design a crossover, if given the spec sheets for the tweeters and woofer? I'm all ears, BUTT-****ER! |
#89
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Recommend a Replacement Speaker for JBL Control 12SR?
Paul wrote:
** The JBL x-over is not "sweepable". There was a pot to adjust the high end roll off, ** Wrong. There was an attenuator for tweeter level. Perhaps. Do you have a sample schematic that shows this? ** Says so in the data sheet - asswipe. Designing a suitable x-over is a job for someone with expertise - so not you. **** you, bitch. ** You are worse the a stupid, lying pig. I've designed RF filters, ** No you haven't. Yes, I have, using ADS and Microwave Office. ** Yawnnnnnnnnn........ ** It's way beyond an asswipe like you. Audio frequencies are a cakewalk compared to GHz! ** Totally separate topics - asswipe. Audio ain't simple when you are a clueless idiot. And if you took your ****ed up head out of your ass, you would realize I was ASKING FOR A ****ING SCHEMATIC, WHICH IS ALREADY DESIGNED, DUMB****! ** I pointed out why it is NO use to you. You stupid, lying, ****ing asswipe. Hahaha! ** Go **** yourself - asswipe. Ok, since you are so desperate to show off: Tell us how you would design a crossover, if given the spec sheets for the tweeters and woofer? ** I know exactly how to, long as I have the drivers in my possession and can run tests. Spec sheets do not contain adequate info. You stupid, know nothing, bull****ting, TROLLING ASSWIPE !!! ..... Phil |
#90
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Recommend a Replacement Speaker for JBL Control 12SR?
On 2/9/2017 11:52 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
I've designed RF filters, ** No you haven't. Yes, I have, using ADS and Microwave Office. ** Yawnnnnnnnnn........ Haha! Never used either program, right? BWHAHA! ** It's way beyond an asswipe like you. Audio frequencies are a cakewalk compared to GHz! ** Totally separate topics - asswipe. Audio ain't simple when you are a clueless idiot. And if you took your ****ed up head out of your ass, you would realize I was ASKING FOR A ****ING SCHEMATIC, WHICH IS ALREADY DESIGNED, DUMB****! ** I pointed out why it is NO use to you. You stupid, lying, ****ing asswipe. Hahaha! ** Go **** yourself - asswipe. Ok, since you are so desperate to show off: Tell us how you would design a crossover, if given the spec sheets for the tweeters and woofer? ** I know exactly how to, long as I have the drivers in my possession and can run tests. Spec sheets do not contain adequate info. OK, THEN TELL US HOW YOU DO IT, MR. KNOW-IT-ALL! CAN'T CAN YOU! THAT'S BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW ****! HAHA! |
#91
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Recommend a Replacement Speaker for JBL Control 12SR?
On 2/9/2017 9:39 PM, Trevor wrote:
On 10/02/2017 10:59 AM, Mike Rivers wrote: On 2/9/2017 6:22 PM, Paul wrote: Would getting a cheap speaker crossover on Ebay possibly clean up the sound a bit? Again, it only has a 5.6uF cap in series with the tweeters..... Doubt it. The capacitor protects the tweeter from getting woofed at. The woofer won't reproduce the tweets, so the only other thing you can add to it is an inductor to keeps the tweets from wasting some power trying to drive the woofer, not much to gain there. From his description there may well be something to gain by getting rid of some midrange going to the woofer, which is probably part of the crook midrange he is describing. May well be a big midrange peak with both speakers operating in that band if the woofer isn't naturally rolling off quick enough for such a simple xover network. Add to that the horn is probably far more efficient than the woofer and thus would need to be attenuated, NOT just a capacitor. However having no original JBL parts and no ability to test it properly in it's new guise sounds like an audio nightmare to me. Looks like he is just going to inflict it on some other poor sap. I imagine this site is too simplistic: http://www.apicsllc.com/apics/Misc/filter2.html |
#92
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Recommend a Replacement Speaker for JBL Control 12SR?
Paul the Criminal ****wit Troll wrote:
I've designed RF filters, ** No you haven't. Yes, I have, using ADS and Microwave Office. ** Yawnnnnnnnnn........ Haha! ** Go straight to hell - ****wit. The software did the design - not you, asswipe !! Ok, since you are so desperate to show off: Tell us how you would design a crossover, if given the spec sheets for the tweeters and woofer? ** I know exactly how to, long as I have the drivers in my possession and can run tests. Spec sheets do not contain adequate info. OK, THEN TELL US HOW YOU DO IT, MR. KNOW-IT-ALL! ** What the ****ing hell for ????? You would have NO way of knowing if what I posted was correct or not. Go **** your ugly, retarded mother - asswipe. ...... Phil |
#93
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Recommend a Replacement Speaker for JBL Control 12SR?
On 10/02/2017 4:04 PM, Paul wrote:
On 2/9/2017 9:26 PM, Trevor wrote: On 10/02/2017 4:36 AM, Paul wrote: I'll tell you what else! The tweeter horn is "A Product of Peavey Electronics," with NO crossover in sight, except a 5.6uF cap in series! That *IS* a 6db/oct High pass filter/crossover! The absolute minimum required to stop the horn instantly blowing up of course. Of course you are correct, that's a first order high pass filter, -6dB/Octave or -20 dB/decade. But my idea of a proper crossover includes some low pass filtering to the woofer, of which there is absolutely nothing in this cab at all! JBL themselves made speakers with no crossover components to the woofer. In the right circumstances it is actually a benefit. I'd be more worried that the horn HP filter is only 6dB/oct. that rarely works well IME. Especially with no sign of any attempt to match speaker sensitivities. Unlikely the woofer is as efficient as the horn. Trevor. |
#94
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Recommend a Replacement Speaker for JBL Control 12SR?
On 10/02/2017 5:41 PM, Paul wrote:
On 2/9/2017 10:57 PM, Phil Allison wrote: Does anyone have a schematic of the original, sweep-able crossover for this cab? ** The JBL x-over is not "sweepable". There was a pot to adjust the high end roll off, ** Wrong. There was an attenuator for tweeter level. Perhaps. Do you have a sample schematic that shows this? so that's sweepable, ** Like hell. you dumb****! ** You are a lying, brain dead pig. You do not have the original JBL components, so have no need to duplicate the original x-over. Designing a suitable x-over is a job for someone with expertise - so not you. **** you, bitch. ** You are worse the a stupid, lying pig. I've designed RF filters, ** No you haven't. Yes, I have, using ADS and Microwave Office. Edge-coupled filters on alumina stable. Lumped element filters too. 0.5-40 GHz. so this wouldn't be a huge stretch. ** It's way beyond an asswipe like you. Audio frequencies are a cakewalk compared to GHz! And if you took your ****ed up head out of your ass, you would realize I was ASKING FOR A ****ING SCHEMATIC, WHICH IS ALREADY DESIGNED, DUMB****! ** I pointed out why it is NO use to you. You stupid, lying, ****ing asswipe. Hahaha! I know your type well! An old fart, way past his prime, and DESPERATE FOR ATTENTION BECAUSE HE NEVER MADE A MARK ON THE INDUSTRY! Ok, since you are so desperate to show off: Tell us how you would design a crossover, if given the spec sheets for the tweeters and woofer? You have the spec sheets for YOUR tweeter and Woofer? And they show ALL necessary information and measurements to properly design a suitable crossover? Or you are able to make those proper measurements yourself? Sounds unlikely to me or you wouldn't have asked the question you did in the first place! Trevor. |
#95
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Recommend a Replacement Speaker for JBL Control 12SR?
On 10/02/2017 6:08 PM, Paul wrote:
On 2/9/2017 9:39 PM, Trevor wrote: On 10/02/2017 10:59 AM, Mike Rivers wrote: On 2/9/2017 6:22 PM, Paul wrote: Would getting a cheap speaker crossover on Ebay possibly clean up the sound a bit? Again, it only has a 5.6uF cap in series with the tweeters..... Doubt it. The capacitor protects the tweeter from getting woofed at. The woofer won't reproduce the tweets, so the only other thing you can add to it is an inductor to keeps the tweets from wasting some power trying to drive the woofer, not much to gain there. From his description there may well be something to gain by getting rid of some midrange going to the woofer, which is probably part of the crook midrange he is describing. May well be a big midrange peak with both speakers operating in that band if the woofer isn't naturally rolling off quick enough for such a simple xover network. Add to that the horn is probably far more efficient than the woofer and thus would need to be attenuated, NOT just a capacitor. However having no original JBL parts and no ability to test it properly in it's new guise sounds like an audio nightmare to me. Looks like he is just going to inflict it on some other poor sap. I imagine this site is too simplistic: http://www.apicsllc.com/apics/Misc/filter2.html Short answer, yes, for your purpose. Trevor |
#96
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Recommend a Replacement Speaker for JBL Control 12SR?
On 2/10/2017 12:12 AM, Phil Allison wrote:
Paul the Criminal ****wit Troll wrote: I've designed RF filters, ** No you haven't. Yes, I have, using ADS and Microwave Office. ** Yawnnnnnnnnn........ Haha! ** Go straight to hell - ****wit. The software did the design - not you, asswipe !! HEY ****TARD, THE SOFTWARE DOESN'T KNOW IT'S OWN LIMITATIONS...THE USER HAS TO KNOW THAT, AND HOW TO USE THE PROGRAM. THAT TAKES KNOWLEDGE, ****-WIT! AND WHAT DUMB-**** IS GOING TO CALCULATE AND OPTIMIZE BY HAND, A 2.5D FINITE ELEMENT ANALYSIS, CONFORMAL MESH? ONLY A ****TARD THAT WANTS TO WASTE HIS TIME, AND THE COMPANY'S TIME! BUT YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THE **** I'M TALKING ABOUT ANYWAYS, SO **** OFF! Ok, since you are so desperate to show off: Tell us how you would design a crossover, if given the spec sheets for the tweeters and woofer? ** I know exactly how to, long as I have the drivers in my possession and can run tests. Spec sheets do not contain adequate info. OK, THEN TELL US HOW YOU DO IT, MR. KNOW-IT-ALL! ** What the ****ing hell for ????? You would have NO way of knowing if what I posted was correct or not. Go **** your ugly, retarded mother - asswipe. I'LL **** ON YOUR MOMMA'S GRAVE FIRST, AND THEN **** DOWN YOUR THROAT, BITCH MOTHER-****ER! GO BACK TO ****ING YOUR DADDY'S PUSSY, YOU FAGGOT-ASS ****-FACE! |
#97
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Recommend a Replacement Speaker for JBL Control 12SR?
On 2/10/2017 12:38 AM, Trevor wrote:
On 10/02/2017 5:41 PM, Paul wrote: On 2/9/2017 10:57 PM, Phil Allison wrote: Does anyone have a schematic of the original, sweep-able crossover for this cab? ** The JBL x-over is not "sweepable". There was a pot to adjust the high end roll off, ** Wrong. There was an attenuator for tweeter level. Perhaps. Do you have a sample schematic that shows this? so that's sweepable, ** Like hell. you dumb****! ** You are a lying, brain dead pig. You do not have the original JBL components, so have no need to duplicate the original x-over. Designing a suitable x-over is a job for someone with expertise - so not you. **** you, bitch. ** You are worse the a stupid, lying pig. I've designed RF filters, ** No you haven't. Yes, I have, using ADS and Microwave Office. Edge-coupled filters on alumina stable. Lumped element filters too. 0.5-40 GHz. so this wouldn't be a huge stretch. ** It's way beyond an asswipe like you. Audio frequencies are a cakewalk compared to GHz! And if you took your ****ed up head out of your ass, you would realize I was ASKING FOR A ****ING SCHEMATIC, WHICH IS ALREADY DESIGNED, DUMB****! ** I pointed out why it is NO use to you. You stupid, lying, ****ing asswipe. Hahaha! I know your type well! An old fart, way past his prime, and DESPERATE FOR ATTENTION BECAUSE HE NEVER MADE A MARK ON THE INDUSTRY! Ok, since you are so desperate to show off: Tell us how you would design a crossover, if given the spec sheets for the tweeters and woofer? You have the spec sheets for YOUR tweeter and Woofer? And they show ALL necessary information and measurements to properly design a suitable crossover? Or you are able to make those proper measurements yourself? Sounds unlikely to me or you wouldn't have asked the question you did in the first place! No ****, Sherlock! Gee....maybe if I knew the answer myself, I wouldn't ask the question? How would YOU design a crossover? |
#98
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Recommend a Replacement Speaker for JBL Control 12SR?
On 2/10/2017 12:41 AM, Trevor wrote:
On 10/02/2017 6:08 PM, Paul wrote: On 2/9/2017 9:39 PM, Trevor wrote: On 10/02/2017 10:59 AM, Mike Rivers wrote: On 2/9/2017 6:22 PM, Paul wrote: Would getting a cheap speaker crossover on Ebay possibly clean up the sound a bit? Again, it only has a 5.6uF cap in series with the tweeters..... Doubt it. The capacitor protects the tweeter from getting woofed at. The woofer won't reproduce the tweets, so the only other thing you can add to it is an inductor to keeps the tweets from wasting some power trying to drive the woofer, not much to gain there. From his description there may well be something to gain by getting rid of some midrange going to the woofer, which is probably part of the crook midrange he is describing. May well be a big midrange peak with both speakers operating in that band if the woofer isn't naturally rolling off quick enough for such a simple xover network. Add to that the horn is probably far more efficient than the woofer and thus would need to be attenuated, NOT just a capacitor. However having no original JBL parts and no ability to test it properly in it's new guise sounds like an audio nightmare to me. Looks like he is just going to inflict it on some other poor sap. I imagine this site is too simplistic: http://www.apicsllc.com/apics/Misc/filter2.html Short answer, yes, for your purpose. Ok, what is the long answer? What order filter should I use and why? Linkwitz-Riley, Butterworth, or Bessel? How do you pick the optimum crossover frequency? |
#99
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Recommend a Replacement Speaker for JBL Control 12SR?
Paul the PSYCHOPATHIC ****wit Troll wrote: I've designed RF filters, ** No you haven't. Yes, I have, using ADS and Microwave Office. ** Yawnnnnnnnnn........ Haha! ** Go straight to hell - ****wit. The software did the design - not you, asswipe !! HEY ****TARD, ** Go **** your ugly, autistic whore mother. ** I know exactly how to, long as I have the drivers in my possession and can run tests. Spec sheets do not contain adequate info. OK, THEN TELL US HOW YOU DO IT, MR. KNOW-IT-ALL! ** What the ****ing hell for ????? You would have NO way of knowing if what I posted was correct or not. Go **** your ugly, retarded mother - asswipe. I'LL **** ON YOUR MOMMA'S GRAVE FIRST, ** Then **** your ugly, ****wit whore mother. For good luck. ..... Phil |
#100
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Recommend a Replacement Speaker for JBL Control 12SR?
Paul the Psycho TROLL wrote:
Short answer, yes, for your purpose. Ok, what is the long answer? What order filter should I use and why? Linkwitz-Riley, Butterworth, or Bessel? How do you pick the optimum crossover frequency? ** Designing such a x-over network is an engineering problem to be analysed and solved with the particular components on hand in a well equipped, audio electronics workshop environment - not a series of simple dumb Qs to be answered. But the brain dead **** asking here could not understand or even believe that fact even if it were given a thousand centuries to do so. Only thing the vile POS is any good at is ****ing his ugly mum. ..... Phil |
#101
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Recommend a Replacement Speaker for JBL Control 12SR?
On 2/10/2017 12:49 AM, Paul wrote:
There was a pot to adjust the high end roll off, so that's sweepable, you dumb****! "Sweepable" usually refers to variable frequency, not variable level. What was originally there was simply a volume control for the tweeter. Try this: http://www.parts-express.com/speaker...8-ohm--260-265 You don't really need a 100 watt attenuator for the tweeter, but it's an off-the-shelf part that comes with instructions. Parts Express is a good source for off-the-shelf crossovers as well as parts to build your own. -- For a good time, call http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com |
#102
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Recommend a Replacement Speaker for JBL Control 12SR?
In article , Trevor wrote:
On 9/02/2017 1:17 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote: In article , Paul wrote: They could then establish a Mean Time before Failure (MTBF), and say statistically that you could use this speaker with this amp, and expect an average of this many hours of usage before blowing the speaker. The only person who has ever even made a stab at that sort of thing is Wolfgang Klippel. Klippel has done more to establish statistical quality control of speaker drivers than anyone else ever, I suspect. Is Dick Pierce still with us? He is, he still even posts to Usenet now and then. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#103
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Recommend a Replacement Speaker for JBL Control 12SR?
In article , Paul wrote:
On 2/9/2017 10:19 PM, Phil Allison wrote: ** The JBL x-over is not "sweepable". There was a pot to adjust the high end roll off, so that's sweepable, you dumb****! Actually, it's not. "Sweepable" implies the turnover frequency can be changed, not the amplitude. You do not have the original JBL components, so have no need to duplicate the original x-over. Designing a suitable x-over is a job for someone with expertise - so not you. **** you, bitch. I've designed RF filters, so this wouldn't be a huge stretch. RF filters are comparatively easily since the loads aren't crazy. The problem with crossover design is that your load impedances are crazy and in the case of the woofer the load impedance depends on the cabinet. There is a good introduction to the process in the Vance Dickason Loudspeaker Cookbook. Note that if you have a woofer in a box not designed for it, trying to make a crossover work properly is probably futile anyway. And if you took your ****ed up head out of your ass, you would realize I was ASKING FOR A ****ING SCHEMATIC, WHICH IS ALREADY DESIGNED, DUMB****! The problem is that design will only work with the drivers for which it's intended. Put in different drivers, the load impedances are all different, the efficiencies are different, and so the crossover needs to be different. This stuff is actually designed together as a system. BOY, YOU ARE STUPID! Phil is frequently offensive and occasionally wrong but I wouldn't call him stupid. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#104
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Recommend a Replacement Speaker for JBL Control 12SR?
In article , Trevor wrote:
On 10/02/2017 5:41 PM, Paul wrote: Ok, since you are so desperate to show off: Tell us how you would design a crossover, if given the spec sheets for the tweeters and woofer? You have the spec sheets for YOUR tweeter and Woofer? And they show ALL necessary information and measurements to properly design a suitable crossover? Or you are able to make those proper measurements yourself? Sounds unlikely to me or you wouldn't have asked the question you did in the first place! The spec sheets for the driver don't tell you anything useful at all. Well, the impedance curve on the tweeter might, but the one on the woofer or on a midrange driver isn't going to tell you much because once you put it into a cabinet the impedance curve is going to change. You have actually build the low end cabinet as a system, then measure the impedance curve and start working from there. You _also_ need to fine tune the crossover by actually measuring the system as a whole, in part because you can't really model the degree of phase shift accurately enough to completely predict the response over the crossover region where signal is coming from both drivers. A very good, extremely elementary introduction to the practice of crossover design can be found in Vance Dickason's _Loudspeaker Cookbook_ although you should be careful to realize that this is really just the tip of the iceberg. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#105
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Recommend a Replacement Speaker for JBL Control 12SR?
On 2/10/2017 5:00 AM, Mike Rivers wrote:
On 2/10/2017 12:49 AM, Paul wrote: There was a pot to adjust the high end roll off, so that's sweepable, you dumb****! "Sweepable" usually refers to variable frequency, not variable level. What was originally there was simply a volume control for the tweeter. Try this: http://www.parts-express.com/speaker...8-ohm--260-265 You don't really need a 100 watt attenuator for the tweeter, but it's an off-the-shelf part that comes with instructions. Parts Express is a good source for off-the-shelf crossovers as well as parts to build your own. We have those for RF too: https://www.microwaves101.com/calcul...tor-calculator |
#106
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Recommend a Replacement Speaker for JBL Control 12SR?
On 2/10/2017 4:23 AM, Phil Allison wrote:
Paul the PSYCHOPATHIC ****wit Troll wrote: I've designed RF filters, ** No you haven't. Yes, I have, using ADS and Microwave Office. ** Yawnnnnnnnnn........ Haha! ** Go straight to hell - ****wit. The software did the design - not you, asswipe !! HEY ****TARD, ** Go **** your ugly, autistic whore mother. ** I know exactly how to, long as I have the drivers in my possession and can run tests. Spec sheets do not contain adequate info. OK, THEN TELL US HOW YOU DO IT, MR. KNOW-IT-ALL! ** What the ****ing hell for ????? You would have NO way of knowing if what I posted was correct or not. Go **** your ugly, retarded mother - asswipe. I'LL **** ON YOUR MOMMA'S GRAVE FIRST, ** Then **** your ugly, ****wit whore mother. For good luck. Zzzzzz......zzzzzzz.....zzzzzzz....... |
#107
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Recommend a Replacement Speaker for JBL Control 12SR?
On 2/10/2017 7:29 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
In article , Paul wrote: On 2/9/2017 10:19 PM, Phil Allison wrote: ** The JBL x-over is not "sweepable". There was a pot to adjust the high end roll off, so that's sweepable, you dumb****! Actually, it's not. "Sweepable" implies the turnover frequency can be changed, not the amplitude. You do not have the original JBL components, so have no need to duplicate the original x-over. Designing a suitable x-over is a job for someone with expertise - so not you. **** you, bitch. I've designed RF filters, so this wouldn't be a huge stretch. RF filters are comparatively easily since the loads aren't crazy. Not completely true, as antenna loads are not always a nice 50 Ohms, and are dependent on the environment. And the parasitic inductances and capacitances become critical when you get into the higher GHz range, especially over 20GHz or so. Also, in the case of microwave edge-coupled filters, the enclosure you put them in becomes a waveguide, and must be designed as such. |
#108
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Recommend a Replacement Speaker for JBL Control 12SR?
On Friday, February 10, 2017 at 11:56:18 AM UTC-5, Paul wrote:
On 2/10/2017 7:29 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote: In article , Paul wrote: On 2/9/2017 10:19 PM, Phil Allison wrote: ** The JBL x-over is not "sweepable". There was a pot to adjust the high end roll off, so that's sweepable, you dumb****! Actually, it's not. "Sweepable" implies the turnover frequency can be changed, not the amplitude. You do not have the original JBL components, so have no need to duplicate the original x-over. Designing a suitable x-over is a job for someone with expertise - so not you. **** you, bitch. I've designed RF filters, so this wouldn't be a huge stretch. RF filters are comparatively easily since the loads aren't crazy. Not completely true, as antenna loads are not always a nice 50 Ohms, and are dependent on the environment. And the parasitic inductances and capacitances become critical when you get into the higher GHz range, especially over 20GHz or so. Once built a LC circuit (with variable capacitor) to replace crystal on CB set. First attempt failed. But, what was I using, typical coax audio cable for connection. Replaced it with RG58U (small diameter) coax cable and we were up and running. That's only, what, 27 MHz. Jack Also, in the case of microwave edge-coupled filters, the enclosure you put them in becomes a waveguide, and must be designed as such. |
#109
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Recommend a Replacement Speaker for JBL Control 12SR?
On 2/10/2017 10:40 AM, JackA wrote:
On Friday, February 10, 2017 at 11:56:18 AM UTC-5, Paul wrote: On 2/10/2017 7:29 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote: In article , Paul wrote: On 2/9/2017 10:19 PM, Phil Allison wrote: ** The JBL x-over is not "sweepable". There was a pot to adjust the high end roll off, so that's sweepable, you dumb****! Actually, it's not. "Sweepable" implies the turnover frequency can be changed, not the amplitude. You do not have the original JBL components, so have no need to duplicate the original x-over. Designing a suitable x-over is a job for someone with expertise - so not you. **** you, bitch. I've designed RF filters, so this wouldn't be a huge stretch. RF filters are comparatively easily since the loads aren't crazy. Not completely true, as antenna loads are not always a nice 50 Ohms, and are dependent on the environment. And the parasitic inductances and capacitances become critical when you get into the higher GHz range, especially over 20GHz or so. Once built a LC circuit (with variable capacitor) to replace crystal on CB set. First attempt failed. But, what was I using, typical coax audio cable for connection. Replaced it with RG58U (small diameter) coax cable and we were up and running. That's only, what, 27 MHz. That's still the HF (high frequency) range, so would need RF coax, as you found out.... |
#110
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Recommend a Replacement Speaker for JBL Control 12SR?
On 2/10/2017 7:34 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
In article , Trevor wrote: On 10/02/2017 5:41 PM, Paul wrote: Ok, since you are so desperate to show off: Tell us how you would design a crossover, if given the spec sheets for the tweeters and woofer? You have the spec sheets for YOUR tweeter and Woofer? And they show ALL necessary information and measurements to properly design a suitable crossover? Or you are able to make those proper measurements yourself? Sounds unlikely to me or you wouldn't have asked the question you did in the first place! The spec sheets for the driver don't tell you anything useful at all. Well, the impedance curve on the tweeter might, but the one on the woofer or on a midrange driver isn't going to tell you much because once you put it into a cabinet the impedance curve is going to change. You have actually build the low end cabinet as a system, then measure the impedance curve and start working from there. You _also_ need to fine tune the crossover by actually measuring the system as a whole, in part because you can't really model the degree of phase shift accurately enough to completely predict the response over the crossover region where signal is coming from both drivers. A very good, extremely elementary introduction to the practice of crossover design can be found in Vance Dickason's _Loudspeaker Cookbook_ although you should be careful to realize that this is really just the tip of the iceberg. --scott Some interesting reading he http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi...asurement.html |
#111
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Recommend a Replacement Speaker for JBL Control 12SR?
On Friday, February 10, 2017 at 1:11:23 PM UTC-5, Paul wrote:
On 2/10/2017 10:40 AM, JackA wrote: On Friday, February 10, 2017 at 11:56:18 AM UTC-5, Paul wrote: On 2/10/2017 7:29 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote: In article , Paul wrote: On 2/9/2017 10:19 PM, Phil Allison wrote: ** The JBL x-over is not "sweepable". There was a pot to adjust the high end roll off, so that's sweepable, you dumb****! Actually, it's not. "Sweepable" implies the turnover frequency can be changed, not the amplitude. You do not have the original JBL components, so have no need to duplicate the original x-over. Designing a suitable x-over is a job for someone with expertise - so not you. **** you, bitch. I've designed RF filters, so this wouldn't be a huge stretch. RF filters are comparatively easily since the loads aren't crazy. Not completely true, as antenna loads are not always a nice 50 Ohms, and are dependent on the environment. And the parasitic inductances and capacitances become critical when you get into the higher GHz range, especially over 20GHz or so. Once built a LC circuit (with variable capacitor) to replace crystal on CB set. First attempt failed. But, what was I using, typical coax audio cable for connection. Replaced it with RG58U (small diameter) coax cable and we were up and running. That's only, what, 27 MHz. That's still the HF (high frequency) range, so would need RF coax, as you found out.... RF? Really Fine? :-) Jack |
#112
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Recommend a Replacement Speaker for JBL Control 12SR?
"Paul" wrote in message news 12" Woofer cone distorts badly, due to torn paper cone: http://www.jblpro.com/pub/obsolete/Control_12sr.pdf I believe the tweeter is fine. Can anyone recommend a replacement woofer? I've never tried re-coning: Is it relatively successful the first time? I am good with my hands. Thanks for any good feedback..... Blimey, after all that, I think we need a good laugh. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XSC_UG5_kU Gareth. |
#113
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Recommend a Replacement Speaker for JBL Control 12SR?
Paul the Schizo Troll wrote:
RF filters are comparatively easily since the loads aren't crazy. Not completely true, ** But a very fair comment. Not that a pig ignorant, mother****ing scumbag like you would know the difference. ..... Phil |
#114
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Recommend a Replacement Speaker for JBL Control 12SR?
On 11/02/2017 1:24 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
In article , Trevor wrote: On 9/02/2017 1:17 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote: In article , Paul wrote: They could then establish a Mean Time before Failure (MTBF), and say statistically that you could use this speaker with this amp, and expect an average of this many hours of usage before blowing the speaker. The only person who has ever even made a stab at that sort of thing is Wolfgang Klippel. Klippel has done more to establish statistical quality control of speaker drivers than anyone else ever, I suspect. Is Dick Pierce still with us? He is, he still even posts to Usenet now and then. He was by far my favorite poster 10-20 years ago. Sadly haven't seen a post from him in quite a while, so I'm glad to hear he is OK. Trevor. |
#115
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Recommend a Replacement Speaker for JBL Control 12SR?
On 11/02/2017 1:34 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
In article , Trevor wrote: On 10/02/2017 5:41 PM, Paul wrote: Ok, since you are so desperate to show off: Tell us how you would design a crossover, if given the spec sheets for the tweeters and woofer? You have the spec sheets for YOUR tweeter and Woofer? And they show ALL necessary information and measurements to properly design a suitable crossover? Or you are able to make those proper measurements yourself? Sounds unlikely to me or you wouldn't have asked the question you did in the first place! The spec sheets for the driver don't tell you anything useful at all. Usually don't, which is why I specified able to make the proper measurements required. Well, the impedance curve on the tweeter might, but the one on the woofer or on a midrange driver isn't going to tell you much because once you put it into a cabinet the impedance curve is going to change. You have actually build the low end cabinet as a system, then measure the impedance curve and start working from there. Not necessarily true for a two way system. By the time the woofer reaches above 1kHz, the cabinets affect on it will usually be minimal. You certainly are NOT going to be crossing over a horn tweeter with a 6dB/oct network below 1kHz! You _also_ need to fine tune the crossover by actually measuring the system as a whole, in part because you can't really model the degree of phase shift accurately enough to completely predict the response over the crossover region where signal is coming from both drivers. When you're simply throwing unknown drivers into a box not designed for them, you are probably not going to worry about minor details! Almost *anything* would be an improvement over one capacitor, just getting the sensitivities of the two drivers matched would be huge start. :-) Trevor. |
#116
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Recommend a Replacement Speaker for JBL Control 12SR?
Try on ebay. There art two available now. JBL part 119HS-1. I got one to replace the SW of mine.
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#117
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Recommend a Replacement Speaker for JBL Control 12SR?
In article ,
wrote: Try on ebay. There art two available now. JBL part 119HS-1. I got one to replace the SW of mine. Too late... later in the thread they were determined not to be Control 12s at all. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
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