[gjsmo]

On Aug 17, 8:55*pm, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
gjsmo wrote:
On Aug 17, 7:48=A0pm, Cyberserf wrote:
LOL...how relevant....You can get a used Presonus Firebox (6i-10o) for
under $200...seriously...analog is soooo anal.

Why? Any reason? It would work fine for me, if it was cheaper.

I love it, and I use it all the time, but figure $2k for a good 8-track 1"
setup with clean heads and a couple reels of tape, minimum. *And really
it's the tape costs that will kill you.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Alright, fine. It's more expensive. Doesn't mean it's anal.

[[email protected]]

On 2010-08-17 said:
I've actually got some good enough mics for what I want to do. Would
it help you understanding my situation if I said I'm in high school?
Yeah. I just bought a $1500 computer, but I've only got the one, and
it's not going to be in the band room. I've got 2 MXL condensers, a
Behringer XENYX 802 mixer and a Boss BR-600, which I'm currently
using. I actually really like it, auto punches are SO easy (besides
the 300 or so FX presets). Problem is, it's only 2-track recording
(but 8-track playback).
So I found these cassette recorders at a recycling place, and got
them for literally nothing. They apparently came from the local
university. They work good enough, so I figured it can't be hard,
right? Now the best idea with them seems to be mounting them inside
a VCR. Seems like it might be hard, but I'm up to it. Sort of.
I still think you'd be happier with an adat for the band
room though. Eventually get you something for the computer
to import your tracks.


Best part of it is, when you're ready to mix those tracks
and want a pro control room with pro ears to help you out,
Adat litepipe is everywhere man, and I"m serious. ÿwere I
doing what I presume you're doing that's the way I"d go.
I did the narrow formats, cassette, 2 tracks on 1/4 inch
back in the '70's capturing stuff in garages, church
basements and wherever grin. ÿIT was just as much fun
then. ÿBouncing tracks between two different two-track
machines, and formats, etc. ÿYeah lots of fun.
IN all seriousness, at the level you're playing at the adat
would be your best tool. ÿwhen/if something merits further
production with facilities you haven't got bring in your
adat, hook up the litepipe to dump your tracks to the daw or
a machine with a higher track count, you're off to the
races. ÿNO funny file format conversion hoops to jump, etc.
I guess that's my question, though a bit sarcastic in asking
it the way I did. ÿWhat's not to like about the adat right
now? ÿYOu answered that one.
Sounds good. What's not to like about ADAT? well... seems like it
gets as many horror stories as endorsments.
RIght, but those "horror stories" are from people at a pro
level. RIght now, where you're wanting to capture
multitrack all at once for you and your colleagues, the
adat's a good fit for you right now. eventually get an
interface for your computer that handles adat litepipe, dump
your tracks to it. IF you find you're really into better
bang for the buck many good a/d converters use the adat
litepipe standard, so you can always improve on the a/d
conversion when money and desires both coincide. If it's
the orphaned s-vhs format that owrries you, a computer
interface that uses adat litepipe lets you dump tracks and
archive, etc.

AT this stage, you're wanting something that doesn't become
just something you discard when you upgrade, because, as you
say, you're in high school and funds are limited. Being
adat based means you build other digital parts of the
equation to handle adat litepipe format. LItepipe's going
to be around awhile, and if you decide an upgrade of the
recorder platform itself is in order you've got a migration
path with the litepipe and easy portability of your work to
the new machine. Analog is always going to be a real
compromise at the level you can afford to work at right now,
where saving your shekels and going into a used adat right
now is actually longterm your better move, with a built-in
upgrade path without a bunch of headaches. Run the adats
for a couple of years, capture some good tracks with your
bandmates. IF money allows because you've found some gigs
or a better part-time gig, then you can look for a used
Alesis hd-24, litepipe i/o, 24 tracks at your current
sampling rate, lower track counts at higher sr and bit
depths.
Regards,




Richard webb,

replace anything before at with elspider
ON site audio in the southland: see www.gatasound.com

[Scott Dorsey]

gjsmo wrote:
On Aug 17, 8:55=A0pm, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
gjsmo wrote:
On Aug 17, 7:48=3DA0pm, Cyberserf wrote:
LOL...how relevant....You can get a used Presonus Firebox (6i-10o) for
under $200...seriously...analog is soooo anal.

Why? Any reason? It would work fine for me, if it was cheaper.

I love it, and I use it all the time, but figure $2k for a good 8-track 1=
"
setup with clean heads and a couple reels of tape, minimum. =A0And really
it's the tape costs that will kill you.

Alright, fine. It's more expensive. Doesn't mean it's anal.

Oh, it's anal too. That's part of the point in using it, that it forces
you into a particular way of working that does not include chopping everything
up note for note. (Okay, if you're crazy you CAN chop things up note for
note but it better be paying time and a half at minimum.)
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Cyberserf[_2_]]

On Aug 17, 8:50*pm, gjsmo wrote:
On Aug 17, 7:48*pm, Cyberserf wrote:

LOL...how relevant....You can get a used Presonus Firebox (6i-10o) for
under $200...seriously...analog is soooo anal.

Why? Any reason? It would work fine for me, if it was cheaper.

I was mostly tongue in cheek there...anal-log...get it...it's a joke
son, stop looking so stunned. Seriously, it is a bit of an expense to
get into a good analog rig and you are limited by what you can
afford...doing the deed "in the box" opens up a ton of possibilities
with little or no added expense...need a mini moog, download a free
VSTi and play it...need to double a track to fatten it up...copy the
track and paste it...unlimited tracks at your finger tips with no
bleed from track to track...much better noise floor and
headroom...want a different reverb on that vocal, download a free VSTe
and get all convoluted...audio an midi in the same box...multiple
mixes are a breeze and if you get a good DAW controller, you can have
fader automation without breaking the bank...pitch correction and ease
of editing (without a razor in sight) are all selling features....the
interfaces are dirt cheap (about the price of two reel of Quantegy
456...cheaper if you buy used), the software is great and the sound
can be amazingly warm...almost as warm as an anal log ;-)

Don't get me wrong, a nice analog setup with a Neve desk and Studer
A827, some virgin 2 inch, great preamps, some nice outboards and good
microphones in a great room is wonderful thing...but it isn't an
entry level rig.

There is a lot out there that is very good....an ADAT would be a quick
entry but a firewire setup would really let you grow.

-CS

[gjsmo]

Well, at least something seems affordable.
Is there anywhere else to get an ADAT machine other than eBay? I found
one at http://cgi.ebay.com/Tascam-DA-88-Mul...efaultDomain_0
..

[Arny Krueger]

"gjsmo" wrote in message

On Aug 17, 7:48 pm, Cyberserf wrote:
LOL...how relevant....You can get a used Presonus
Firebox (6i-10o) for under $200...seriously...analog is
soooo anal.

Why? Any reason? It would work fine for me, if it was
cheaper.

I guess your time is worth nothing, and mediocre or worse results are your
goal.

This is 2010. Good digital is very easy and relatively inexpensive.

Or perhaps you are enjoying gettting your 15 minutes of fame on RAP by
continuing to pursue a bad idea.

[Arny Krueger]

"gjsmo" wrote in message

Well, at least something seems affordable.
Is there anywhere else to get an ADAT machine other than
eBay? I found
one at
http://cgi.ebay.com/Tascam-DA-88-Mul...efaultDomain_0
.

ADAT is only a little less stupid than cassette tape, unless you've got an
archive of ADAT tapes you want to transcribe to some other format.

[Scott Dorsey]

gjsmo wrote:
Well, at least something seems affordable.
Is there anywhere else to get an ADAT machine other than eBay? I found
one at http://cgi.ebay.com/Tascam-DA-88-Mul...efaultDomain_0
.

That's not an ADAT, that's a DTRS. Media are more expensive, running time
is longer, support is probably better but the hardware is trickier to align.

Be aware that these machines require annual alignment and cleaning and that
will run you around $250/year. Same for the ADATs as well.

None of these machines are in current production because PC recording systems
are just so cheap that they have knocked that whole market sector out.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[philicorda[_9_]]

On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 16:14:10 -0700, gjsmo wrote:

snip
Save a few shekels if you have to, and get the adat. Immediate quality
improvement, and still works as you're used to working.

I honestly don't think there's much that sounds better than these
cassette recorders without getting top-of-the-line equipment. Seriously,
they sound really good. I've listened to them on my studio headphones,
and Sennheiser earbuds, and they're great. You don't have to believe me,
but they do.

Do any of your tape decks let you monitor off tape while recording?

If I wanted to get an authentic cassette tape sound, I'd record onto the
ADAT, and then pass stereo pairs though the tape machine, monitoring off
tape, and record them into a cheap computer with a M-audio 24/96 sound
card and Reaper.

This would give the cassette tape sound, but also let you sync the tracks
properly together on the computer afterwards. You would also be able to
make clean overdub recordings by going directly into the sound card.

Pretty much any computer of the sort people throw out will do 16 tracks,
so the only cost would be the ADAT and the sound card.


Oh... and about being in high school. I'm smarter than you might think -
I built a calculator from bare chips once. Of course, it only worked in
binary, but... I'm not bad at programming either (C++).

[Mike Rivers]

gjsmo wrote:

Is there anywhere else to get an ADAT machine other than eBay?

Sure, but I don't think you can get one on Amazon any more.
g

Ask here or any other audio forum like Gearslutz.com,
harmonycentral.com or prosoundweb.com. There are people
there who have an ADAT or three in a closet and don't have
the heart to throw it away, but would be pleased to find
someone interested in putting it to good use.

eBay may be the easiest place to find someone selling an
ADAT, but it also may be someone who doesn't have any idea
of what it is or whether it works. Better to get it from
someone who is actually actively working with audio
regardless of whether he's currently using the ADAT or not.

--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

[[email protected]]

On 2010-08-18 said:
Is there anywhere else to get an ADAT machine other than eBay? I

WHat you found there was not an adat, but a da88 it sounds
like. Different tape format. I actually preferred the da88
to the adat, but the adat litepipe has survived to modern
digital interfaces for moving tracks between systems, where
the TAscam is essentially orphaned at this point afaik. THe
Tascam was the better unit, and found some adoption in the
film sound world for stems, but Adat was the ubiquitous
format out there in project studios everywhere, so adat's
litepipe transport has survived, and is widely implemented
and supported in other gear.

Because of that, and because you're probably going to want
to upgrade as your skills needs and resources dictate, I'd
keep looking for an actual adat.





Richard webb,

replace anything before at with elspider
ON site audio in the southland: see www.gatasound.com

[gjsmo]

On Aug 18, 9:28*am, philicorda wrote:
On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 16:14:10 -0700, gjsmo wrote:

snip

Save a few shekels if you have to, and get the adat. Immediate quality
improvement, and still works as you're used to working.

I honestly don't think there's much that sounds better than these
cassette recorders without getting top-of-the-line equipment. Seriously,
they sound really good. I've listened to them on my studio headphones,
and Sennheiser earbuds, and they're great. You don't have to believe me,
but they do.

Do any of your tape decks let you monitor off tape while recording?

At least 5 that I'm sure of, I'd have to check the others.

If I wanted to get an authentic cassette tape sound, I'd record onto the
ADAT, and then pass stereo pairs though the tape machine, monitoring off
tape, and record them into a cheap computer with a M-audio 24/96 sound
card and Reaper.

This would give the cassette tape sound, but also let you sync the tracks
properly together on the computer afterwards. You would also be able to
make clean overdub recordings by going directly into the sound card.

Not a bad idea. I could use more that 2 tracks at once, actually.
Depends on how ADAT sounds.

[[email protected]]

On Sunday, August 8, 2010 at 4:24:09 PM UTC-7, gjsmo wrote:
I was thinking about making an 8-track simultaneous recorder with the
standard double tape-decks you see. I've got about 4, and they seem
cheap enough.

Anyways, besides needing preamps, is this feasible? I'd have to
synchronize everything - probably with some electronics or just on the
computer later.

Any ideas?

I have been working on a prototype for an 4/8 track out of a couple old cassette 4 tracks and an old hifi stereo VCR. I replaced the cassette deck with the vhs system. They work and sound excellent as stand alone 4 tracks. The trick is figuring out a controller to sync both 4 tracks up together to go on 1 single vhs tape.
I got the idea years ago when I was taking college recording/production classes with Brian Rose. He used a vhs system in one of our classes. he showed us how to modify the head to use the entire width of the vhs tape.

However, It is WAY WAY WAY more trouble than it's worth...especially now that the audio workstations they have now are really affordable. Unless you just like to build stuff out of crap like me....

[Scott Dorsey]

wrote:

I have been working on a prototype for an 4/8 track out of a couple old cas=
sette 4 tracks and an old hifi stereo VCR. I replaced the cassette deck wit=
h the vhs system. They work and sound excellent as stand alone 4 tracks. Th=
e trick is figuring out a controller to sync both 4 tracks up together to g=
o on 1 single vhs tape.

I'm not sure what you mean by a controller? I gather you are using the
existing cassette 4-track heads and stacking them up on across the VHS tape?

Akai at one point made a 12-track machine that used videotape cartridges
but with standard audio tape in them. The particles on videotapes are too
fine for audio work; they sacrifice noise floor for frequency response which
is why VHS audio tracks sound so poor.

I got the idea years ago when I was taking college recording/production cla=
sses with Brian Rose. He used a vhs system in one of our classes. he showed=
us how to modify the head to use the entire width of the vhs tape.

Which head?

However, It is WAY WAY WAY more trouble than it's worth...especially now th=
at the audio workstations they have now are really affordable. Unless you j=
ust like to build stuff out of crap like me....

They have medication for that now, you know.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."