Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
gjsmo gjsmo is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 135
Default DIY multi-track with cassette recorders?

I was thinking about making an 8-track simultaneous recorder with the
standard double tape-decks you see. I've got about 4, and they seem
cheap enough.

Anyways, besides needing preamps, is this feasible? I'd have to
synchronize everything - probably with some electronics or just on the
computer later.

Any ideas?
  #2   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Mark Mark is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 966
Default DIY multi-track with cassette recorders?

On Aug 8, 7:24*pm, gjsmo wrote:
I was thinking about making an 8-track simultaneous recorder with the
standard double tape-decks you see. I've got about 4, and they seem
cheap enough.

Anyways, besides needing preamps, is this feasible? I'd have to
synchronize everything - probably with some electronics or just on the
computer later.

Any ideas?


why bother, get a used Alesis ADAT
cassette quality is terrible at best.
Mark
  #3   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
polymod polymod is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 584
Default DIY multi-track with cassette recorders?


"Mark" wrote in message
...
On Aug 8, 7:24 pm, gjsmo wrote:
I was thinking about making an 8-track simultaneous recorder with the
standard double tape-decks you see. I've got about 4, and they seem
cheap enough.

Anyways, besides needing preamps, is this feasible? I'd have to
synchronize everything - probably with some electronics or just on the
computer later.

Any ideas?


why bother, get a used Alesis ADAT
cassette quality is terrible at best.


Got to agree with Mark. I did the multiple cassette thing back in the 70's.
Unless you're going to do a white noise project, I'd look around at what's
out now

Poly


  #4   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
alex alex is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 180
Default DIY multi-track with cassette recorders?

Il 09/08/2010 1.24, gjsmo ha scritto:
I was thinking about making an 8-track simultaneous recorder with the
standard double tape-decks you see. I've got about 4, and they seem
cheap enough.

Anyways, besides needing preamps, is this feasible? I'd have to
synchronize everything - probably with some electronics or just on the
computer later.

Any ideas?

no idea what your model is but i know that was some doubledeck with a
single motor for both decks in order to keep the same speed during
dubbing. The problem is that even if you can get the same speed for both
decks the audio cassette had no sync system at all.
So it will almost impossible to you to "resynchronize" the two cassette
for the playback. You may sacrifice a track on each deck for sync
purpuse using something like smpte but is very hard to implement from
scratch. and you have to control the speed of each motor.
A much better hobby will be the use of an old vhs recorder toghether
with some part of the tapedeck electronics, expecially if you have more
than one of the same type. Theoretically, if you arrange two autoreverse
not-rotating cassette heads inside the vcr you're almost done ;-). I
suggest you to mount each head on a different support mechnism because
this way you'll be able to calibrate the azimuth. I think that the
regular vhs erasing head will be ok, so no need for those in the
cassette decks.
then you can try to speedup the transport mechanism because the vcr
speed of 1 inch/sec will give you a very small audio bandwidth, limited
to 10kHz at most. 38 inch/sec is commonly used for pro audio in analog
tape recorders, while audio cassette speed was a little less than 2
inch/sec (4.75 cm/sec).
once adjusted the speed you will need to recalibrate the bias current
taking into account the new speed and the new tape type.
The vhs is good becuse at an average-good speed of 4 inch/sec will give
you around one hour of recording using an E240 tape.

good luck, send me your first recording once done and look he
http://www.phys.huji.ac.il/~springer/DigitalNeedle/

alex

  #5   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Peter Larsen[_3_] Peter Larsen[_3_] is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,295
Default DIY multi-track with cassette recorders?

gjsmo wrote:

I was thinking about making an 8-track simultaneous recorder with the
standard double tape-decks you see. I've got about 4, and they seem
cheap enough.


For the fun of doing it?

Anyways, besides needing preamps, is this feasible? I'd have to
synchronize everything - probably with some electronics or just on the
computer later.


Any ideas?


Over the counter 8 track simultanous recording is budget-friendly these
days.

Kind regards

Peter Larsen





  #6   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Arny Krueger Arny Krueger is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 17,262
Default DIY multi-track with cassette recorders?

"gjsmo" wrote in message


I was thinking about making an 8-track simultaneous
recorder with the standard double tape-decks you see.
I've got about 4, and they seem cheap enough.


Analog tape at 1 7/8 ips 1/8 track is sooo lame, dude. 1/2 track 15 ips is
really pretty good, but just keeping it in media is way off your probable
budget.

If you want 8 tracks on a budget with really good performance, slip an
M-Audio Delta 1010LT into some old desktop computer that you find somewhere.

If you roust around, there are inexpensive 8-channel mic preamps to be had.

Or, bite the bullet and get a true 8-channel record and play stand-alone
digital workstation. Maybe $400? Actually, this is probably the
high-performance, high-convenience, reasonably high quality way to go. Good
brands include Zoom.


  #7   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 16,853
Default DIY multi-track with cassette recorders?

gjsmo wrote:
I was thinking about making an 8-track simultaneous recorder with the
standard double tape-decks you see. I've got about 4, and they seem
cheap enough.


They don't sound good and they don't synch.

Anyways, besides needing preamps, is this feasible? I'd have to
synchronize everything - probably with some electronics or just on the
computer later.

Any ideas?


If you want to synch multiple tapes, you either need a pilot tone on one
track (which means each tape machine has only one track of audio) or you
need sprocket holes.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  #8   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 16,853
Default DIY multi-track with cassette recorders?

Peter Larsen wrote:
gjsmo wrote:

I was thinking about making an 8-track simultaneous recorder with the
standard double tape-decks you see. I've got about 4, and they seem
cheap enough.


For the fun of doing it?


Ping-ponging might be fun. Anything involving synchronizing tape machines
isn't fun. Trust me.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  #10   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Cyberserf[_2_] Cyberserf[_2_] is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 67
Default DIY multi-track with cassette recorders?

On Aug 9, 11:26*am, wrote:
On 2010-08-09 (ScottDorsey) said:
* *Peter Larsen wrote:
* * I was thinking about making an 8-track simultaneous recorder
* *with the *standard double tape-decks you see. I've got about 4,
* *and they seem *cheap enough.
* *For the fun of doing it?
* *Ping-ponging might be fun. *Anything involving synchronizing tape
* *machines isn't fun. *Trust me.
AGreed, and wondering why anybody would want to even think
about doing this.

Regards,

Richard webb,

replace anything before at with elspider
Remote audio in the southland: seewww.gatasound.com


LOL...you'd be amazed at some of the things I thing of...not to say
I'd do them (still out of jail, so gotta watch out). But, seriously, I
remember reading about the first "flanger" with some guys tapping the
reel to give it a wow and mess with the phase of the signal coming
from two other recorders. The where pushing the envelope. Sure, we
have state of the art...today (I'm sure they also thought they were
playing with the state of the art yesterday (and they were)). There is
little doubt that, by and large, we can do more easily (and at a far
smaller cost) what was done yesterday (witness the size of the first
computer compared to a BlackBerry). Nevertheless, it is my firm belief
(this is religion here, so be careful) that experimenting really must
be at least a part of discovering a new sound and new ways of doing
things...As Einstein once stated, "If we knew what we were doing, it
wouldn't be called research , would it?" I'm not saying such an
experiment would be easy (heck, I have a hard enough time pressing
play and record simultaneously on one machine, much less eight), nor
might it be particularly fruitful, but then, did you know that
Zubrowka Vodka and apple juice taste just like apple pie with a little
cinnamon in it? True story!

Cheers, CS



  #11   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Cyberserf[_2_] Cyberserf[_2_] is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 67
Default DIY multi-track with cassette recorders?

On Aug 9, 1:21*pm, Cyberserf wrote:
On Aug 9, 11:26*am, wrote:



On 2010-08-09 (ScottDorsey) said:
* *Peter Larsen wrote:
* * I was thinking about making an 8-track simultaneous recorder
* *with the *standard double tape-decks you see. I've got about 4,
* *and they seem *cheap enough.
* *For the fun of doing it?
* *Ping-ponging might be fun. *Anything involving synchronizing tape
* *machines isn't fun. *Trust me.
AGreed, and wondering why anybody would want to even think
about doing this.


Regards,


Richard webb,


replace anything before at with elspider
Remote audio in the southland: seewww.gatasound.com


LOL...you'd be amazed at some of the things I thing of...not to say
I'd do them (still out of jail, so gotta watch out). But, seriously, I
remember reading about the first "flanger" with some guys tapping the
reel to give it a wow and mess with the phase of the signal coming
from two other recorders. The where pushing the envelope. Sure, we
have state of the art...today (I'm sure they also thought they were
playing with the state of the art yesterday (and they were)). There is
little doubt that, by and large, *we can do more easily (and at a far
smaller cost) what was done yesterday (witness the size of the first
computer compared to a BlackBerry). Nevertheless, it is my firm belief
(this is religion here, so be careful) that experimenting really must
be at least a part of discovering a new sound and new ways of doing
things...As Einstein once stated, "If we knew what we were doing, it
wouldn't be called research , would it?" I'm not saying such an
experiment would be easy (heck, I have a hard enough time pressing
play and record simultaneously on one machine, much less eight), nor
might it be particularly fruitful, but then, did you know that
Zubrowka Vodka and apple juice taste just like apple pie with a little
cinnamon in it? True story!

Cheers, CS


Crap...kinda kills it when I screw up the opening line...meant to say
"...some of the things I THINK of..." ...not THING of...which makes
very little sense in any context sigh...time for more apple pie.

-CS
  #12   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Mike Rivers Mike Rivers is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,744
Default DIY multi-track with cassette recorders?

Arny Krueger wrote:
Analog tape at 1 7/8 ips 1/8 track is sooo lame, dude.


Maybe he's into "lo-fi" recording. If he didn't think so
before, he'll think so after.


--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson
  #13   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
GregS[_3_] GregS[_3_] is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 664
Default DIY multi-track with cassette recorders?

In article , Cyberserf wrote:
On Aug 9, 11:26=A0am, wrote:
On 2010-08-09 (ScottDorsey) said:
=A0 =A0Peter Larsen wrote:
=A0 =A0 I was thinking about making an 8-track simultaneous recorder
=A0 =A0with the =A0standard double tape-decks you see. I've got about =

4,
=A0 =A0and they seem =A0cheap enough.
=A0 =A0For the fun of doing it?
=A0 =A0Ping-ponging might be fun. =A0Anything involving synchronizing ta=


They
about doing this.

Regards,

Richard webb,

replace anything before at with elspider
Remote audio in the southland: seewww.gatasound.com


LOL...you'd be amazed at some of the things I thing of...not to say
I'd do them (still out of jail, so gotta watch out). But, seriously, I
remember reading about the first "flanger" with some guys tapping the
reel to give it a wow and mess with the phase of the signal coming


Touching the "flange", I guess thats why they call it flanging.

I remember some DJ's in the 80 used to flange two records of the same song.

greg


from two other recorders. The where pushing the envelope. Sure, we
have state of the art...today (I'm sure they also thought they were
playing with the state of the art yesterday (and they were)). There is
little doubt that, by and large, we can do more easily (and at a far
smaller cost) what was done yesterday (witness the size of the first
computer compared to a BlackBerry). Nevertheless, it is my firm belief
(this is religion here, so be careful) that experimenting really must
be at least a part of discovering a new sound and new ways of doing
things...As Einstein once stated, "If we knew what we were doing, it
wouldn't be called research , would it?" I'm not saying such an
experiment would be easy (heck, I have a hard enough time pressing
play and record simultaneously on one machine, much less eight), nor
might it be particularly fruitful, but then, did you know that
Zubrowka Vodka and apple juice taste just like apple pie with a little
cinnamon in it? True story!

Cheers, CS

  #14   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Richard Webb[_3_] Richard Webb[_3_] is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 533
Default DIY multi-track with cassette recorders?

Cyberserf writes:
LOL...you'd be amazed at some of the things I thing of...not to say
I'd do them (still out of jail, so gotta watch out). But, seriously,
I remember reading about the first "flanger" with some guys tapping
the reel to give it a wow and mess with the phase of the signal
coming from two other recorders. The where pushing the envelope.
Sure, we have state of the art...today (I'm sure they also thought
they were playing with the state of the art yesterday (and they
were)). There is little doubt that, by and large, we can do more
easily (and at a far smaller cost) what was done yesterday (witness
the size of the first computer compared to a BlackBerry).
Nevertheless, it is my firm belief (this is religion here, so be
careful) that experimenting really must be at least a part of
discovering a new sound and new ways of doing things...As Einstein
once stated, "If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called
research , would it?"

True enough, but that's the way you *had* to do it then
possibly. But heck, I think I'd rather just go at creating
something with easier to use tools.
DId plenty of that sort of thing when I was a kid, poor
man's multitracking, play back the one machine through
mixer, mix the added sounds in, hope for the best.


Regards,
Richard
.... Remote audio in the southland: See www.gatasound.com
--
| Remove .my.foot for email
| via Waldo's Place USA Fidonet-Internet Gateway Site
| Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own.
  #15   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
gjsmo gjsmo is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 135
Default DIY multi-track with cassette recorders?

Weird - you say that the quality is gonna be bad.
It really isn't that bad. Nothing an EQ won't fix (and type IV tapes,
I'm using type I). Ok, I'm kidding, EQ is bad.

Seriously, I just got 2 Tascam 112's and 2 112R's. Been recording some
drum covers (just 2-track for now), and they sound pretty good.
I was thinking of just sending a predetermined length 440 tone to the
tapes at the beginning of the recording session, and bringing them
into the computer after that. Or see below.
I honestly don't have the money for a computer studio. Oh, I've got a
computer (actually, more like 5). The newest one... is still in pieces
and just got delivered today. But the interface is too much money,
when I got 4 Tascam decks for free.

They have a "remote" input, but I was thinking of just adding wires to
the buttons (all digital switches) and using a relay/transistors to
"push" play/record/whatever at the same time on all of them. The only
problem I can see is that there's 2 models.
I did have an idea to speed up the tapes... maybe with the pitch
control (or some mods to the pitch control)?
The double decks aren't going to be used, now that I have this. I'm
going to use an old RTR recorder (or more likely, my BR-600 - 8-
tracks, stereo recording) for the final mix.

I'll upload something... later this week, when I get to it. It'll just
be a drum cover, but they don't sound bad.
And the hiss... Dolby NR C seems to take care of that.


  #16   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Mark Mark is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 966
Default DIY multi-track with cassette recorders?


They have a "remote" input, but I was thinking of just adding wires to
the buttons (all digital switches) and using a relay/transistors to
"push" play/record/whatever at the same time on all of them.


that's the easy part...

the hard part will be that the speed accuracy is such that they will
not stay in sync for very long...

try it manually before you spend too much time and effort on the
project..

again, if you want to put effort into something for fun, I suggest a
used Alesis ADAT from ebay for $50

Mark

  #17   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Ben Bradley[_2_] Ben Bradley[_2_] is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 81
Default DIY multi-track with cassette recorders?

I recall in the early '70's as a teen dreaming of making my own
multitrack with a old 1/4" tape recorder I had - if only I had had
four heads from 8-track cartridge players to use. Yes the tracks would
be offset and I could only play back a tape on that machine, and I
needed erase heads if I was going re-record individual tracks ...

On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 19:58:36 -0700 (PDT), Mark
wrote:


They have a "remote" input, but I was thinking of just adding wires to
the buttons (all digital switches) and using a relay/transistors to
"push" play/record/whatever at the same time on all of them.


Now that we've all told you what it's going to do, you could go
ahead and try it as some "art" project to see exactly what happens. It
would be hilarious to listen to, once anyway. Maybe you could even
apply for some Government "stimulus" money to do it. Video the
process, you could be the next Youtube star...


that's the easy part...

the hard part will be that the speed accuracy is such that they will
not stay in sync for very long...

try it manually before you spend too much time and effort on the
project..


This very thing was a common question on alt.music.4-track (and
perhaps here on RAP too) - how do you transfer a recording from a
4-track cassette multitracker to a computer two tracks (through the
average computer stereo line input) at a time? You can transfer the
tracks to the computer, load them in a DAW and align their starting
times, but they'll be off well before the end of the song. Even
reel-to-reels don't play back twice with the speed close enough both
times. You just gotta transfer all tracks at once.


again, if you want to put effort into something for fun, I suggest a
used Alesis ADAT from ebay for $50


From what I've read over the years, ADATs have their own level of
frustration.

My suggestion would be use your current computer, a USB interface
with the most channels you'd want to record simultaneously, and
Audacity.


Mark


  #18   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
gjsmo gjsmo is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 135
Default DIY multi-track with cassette recorders?

I certainly don't want an ADAT, and like I've said, I don't have the
money for a good computer interface.
So I guess I'm left with using VHS or some other wide, single tape
with multiple heads.

Or... I had an idea about synchronizing the motors. What if I modded
the recorders so the motors all ran off of a separate power supply?
I've got one that I can use to test it, and later I can just build
one. Seems like it would work. I'd have to switch the power along with
the recorders, but that's no problem. The point here is cheap multi-
track, not awesome sound. However, these still sound good.

Where's a good place to get 1in+ tape? And is it possible to use all 4
channels on the reversible decks (forward and back)?
  #19   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Mike Rivers Mike Rivers is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,744
Default DIY multi-track with cassette recorders?

gjsmo wrote:
I certainly don't want an ADAT,

Why not? It's a standard, it works, and the newer they are,
the better they sound. Even the worst ADAT sounded better
than the best 4-track cassette recorder.

and like I've said, I don't have the
money for a good computer interface.


Then you should either:
(a) Use what you can afford. Surely it won't be the weakest
link in your chaing
(b) Get some more money to buy what you want
(c) Get into some other line of work. You will never stop
spending money on audio gear

Where's a good place to get 1in+ tape?


Get your Google on. Look for ATR tape or RMGI tape. There
are several distributors. I know ATR has 1" tape, and I
believe RMGI does as well.

And is it possible to use all 4
channels on the reversible decks (forward and back)?


Most have only 2-track heads (covering half the width of the
tape), so you wouldn't be able to record a four track project.


--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson
  #20   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
William Sommerwerck William Sommerwerck is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,718
Default DIY multi-track with cassette recorders?

I have a TEAC multi-channel recorder that uses Hi8 tape, if anyone's
interested. It was updated/upgraded a few years ago.




  #21   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
John Williamson John Williamson is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,753
Default DIY multi-track with cassette recorders?

gjsmo wrote:
I certainly don't want an ADAT, and like I've said, I don't have the
money for a good computer interface.
So I guess I'm left with using VHS or some other wide, single tape
with multiple heads.

Or... I had an idea about synchronizing the motors. What if I modded
the recorders so the motors all ran off of a separate power supply?
I've got one that I can use to test it, and later I can just build
one. Seems like it would work. I'd have to switch the power along with
the recorders, but that's no problem. The point here is cheap multi-
track, not awesome sound. However, these still sound good.

Where's a good place to get 1in+ tape? And is it possible to use all 4
channels on the reversible decks (forward and back)?


If you don't mind building a bit of stuff, a reversing deck with a 4 gap
head will let you use all four tracks at once. You'll either need two
sets of electronics as used by the original makers or you'll need to
build four sets of playback and record amplifiers, and get hold of a
full width erase head, or, preferably, a four gap erase head.

To synchronise in a DAW after the fact, use one track for sync, giving
you three tracks of usable sound per machine.

You could even get two four track cassette heads and mount them onto a
quarter inch deck. As long as you're not planning to exchange tapes with
anyone else, staggering the head gaps won't cause a problem unless
you're editing by physically cutting the tape.

If all you want is cheap analogue multitrack, then something like a
second hand cassette portstudio may well be available for next to
nothing, but even the cheapest digital multitrack setup will sound
better than *any* cassette setup. Most of the cassette portastudio type
units will record two tracks at a time onto a four track standard
cassette tape at 3.75 ips. They also let you use bouncing and mixing
down to get up to ten (mixed after recording) tracks onto one cassette
without losing too much quality or using external facilities. I've seen
an eight track, quarter inch deck in one of the local music stores
recently looking unwanted and sorry for itself.

Synchronising cassette deck motors wuld be about as effective as
shuffling the deckchairs on the Titanic. Even if the motors are in
perfect sync, the mechanical tolerances on the capstans and tape
mechanisms are so bad that the best you can hope for is for all the
tracks in a three minute song to end within half a second or so of each
other, even when played back on the recording deck.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.
  #22   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 16,853
Default DIY multi-track with cassette recorders?

gjsmo wrote:
I certainly don't want an ADAT, and like I've said, I don't have the
money for a good computer interface.


The computer interfaces are dirt cheap these days, way cheaper than just
about any alternatives. Cheaper than buying a single decent tape head.

So I guess I'm left with using VHS or some other wide, single tape
with multiple heads.


Akai made a machine like that once.

Or... I had an idea about synchronizing the motors. What if I modded
the recorders so the motors all ran off of a separate power supply?


Doesn't work because the tape slips. Even if the motors all run at the
exact same speed (or you have one motor physically driving multiple tapes
with a long capstan), they won't stay synched. Been there, done that.

Where's a good place to get 1in+ tape?


Any studio supply house. I personally recommend Tape Warehouse in Atlanta.
Note that a single reel of 1" tape will cost you more than an M-Audio computer
interface.

And is it possible to use all 4
channels on the reversible decks (forward and back)?


You'd have to replace the deck electronics, but the transport would be
usable.

Have you considered just getting an 8-track cassette portastudio?
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  #23   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 16,853
Default DIY multi-track with cassette recorders?

In article ,
William Sommerwerck wrote:
I have a TEAC multi-channel recorder that uses Hi8 tape, if anyone's
interested. It was updated/upgraded a few years ago.


Which model? DA-88 series or one of the instrumentation ones?
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  #24   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
gjsmo gjsmo is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 135
Default DIY multi-track with cassette recorders?

On Aug 13, 12:21*pm, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
gjsmo wrote:
I certainly don't want an ADAT, and like I've said, I don't have the
money for a good computer interface.


The computer interfaces are dirt cheap these days, way cheaper than just
about any alternatives. *Cheaper than buying a single decent tape head.

So I guess I'm left with using VHS or some other wide, single tape
with multiple heads.


Akai made a machine like that once.

Or... I had an idea about synchronizing the motors. What if I modded
the recorders so the motors all ran off of a separate power supply?


Doesn't work because the tape slips. *Even if the motors all run at the
exact same speed (or you have one motor physically driving multiple tapes
with a long capstan), they won't stay synched. *Been there, done that.

Where's a good place to get 1in+ tape?


Any studio supply house. *I personally recommend Tape Warehouse in Atlanta.
Note that a single reel of 1" tape will cost you more than an M-Audio computer
interface.

And is it possible to use all 4
channels on the reversible decks (forward and back)?


You'd have to replace the deck electronics, but the transport would be
usable.

Have you considered just getting an 8-track cassette portastudio?
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."


Following this...
Can you recommend a good 4 to 8-track simultaneous STANDALONE recorder
- that can be obtained for under $200? Can be tape, or digital.
Something like a BR-600 with 8-track simultaneous maybe. Yeah, that'd
be nice.
Doesn't have to be amazing. Edits can be painful if they need to be,
I'm willing to do it just for simultaneous 8-track.
  #25   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
gjsmo gjsmo is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 135
Default DIY multi-track with cassette recorders?

Wait. What about this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/FOSTEX-MR16-HD-C...efaultDomain_0

It'll do... Stereo drums + guitar + bass. Vocals and extra stuff
later.

Come to think of it, 4-track simultaneous is enough, really. Just 8
(or 12 or 16) total tracks is needed.


  #26   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 16,853
Default DIY multi-track with cassette recorders?

gjsmo wrote:
Following this...
Can you recommend a good 4 to 8-track simultaneous STANDALONE recorder
- that can be obtained for under $200? Can be tape, or digital.


You might find a DA-38 in that price range. It actually sounds pretty
good.

You can certainly find a Tascam 238 in that price range. It doesn't sound
very good, but it's more or less what you'e asking for.

Doesn't have to be amazing. Edits can be painful if they need to be,
I'm willing to do it just for simultaneous 8-track.


Edits aren't possible on these machines. You dub to 2-track, then
razor-blade the 2-track.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  #27   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Mike Rivers Mike Rivers is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,744
Default DIY multi-track with cassette recorders?

gjsmo wrote:
..
Can you recommend a good 4 to 8-track simultaneous STANDALONE recorder
- that can be obtained for under $200? Can be tape, or digital.


New? You've got to be kidding. This stuff is cheap, but not
that cheap. It may be possible with some old clunker, but
you really should care more about sound quality than what
you can get in an 8-track recorder at that price. If that's
all you can afford right now, maybe you should think about
saving a little money and getting something that you can
actually be productive with.

By STANDALONE, I assume you mean a recorder/mixer that has
connections for mic or line input sources, headphones or
speakers for monitoring and playback, and mixing capability.
If you just want a used 8-track recorder, there should be
plenty of used ADATs for under $200.


--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson
  #28   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
gjsmo gjsmo is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 135
Default DIY multi-track with cassette recorders?

On Aug 16, 2:38*pm, Mike Rivers wrote:
New? You've got to be kidding.


No. I never said new, actually. Used is fine, just reasonable
quality.

By STANDALONE, I assume you mean a recorder/mixer that has
connections for mic or line input sources, headphones or
speakers for monitoring and playback, and mixing capability.


Mixing would be great. Don't need it though, I've got a dedicated
mixer already. But I (obviously) want to record multi-track.

I guess maybe an ADAT would be okay. Not too crazy about it, but...
Can you notice any sort of digital artifacts in ADAT? Bottom line,
does it sound more analog-y or digital-y?
  #29   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Cyberserf[_2_] Cyberserf[_2_] is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 67
Default DIY multi-track with cassette recorders?

On Aug 16, 4:36*pm, gjsmo wrote:
On Aug 16, 2:38*pm, Mike Rivers wrote:

New? You've got to be kidding.


No. I never said new, actually. Used is fine, just reasonable
quality.

By STANDALONE, I assume you mean a recorder/mixer that has
connections for mic or line input sources, headphones or
speakers for monitoring and playback, and mixing capability.


Mixing would be great. Don't need it though, I've got a dedicated
mixer already. But I (obviously) want to record multi-track.

I guess maybe an ADAT would be okay. Not too crazy about it, but...
Can you notice any sort of digital artifacts in ADAT? Bottom line,
does it sound more analog-y or digital-y?


Gooorrrrnnnn...now there's a Woody sounding word....LOL.

-CS
  #30   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Mike Rivers Mike Rivers is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,744
Default DIY multi-track with cassette recorders?

gjsmo wrote:

I guess maybe an ADAT would be okay. Not too crazy about it, but...
Can you notice any sort of digital artifacts in ADAT? Bottom line,
does it sound more analog-y or digital-y?


It sounds pretty much like what goes into it. It won't add
that warm analog glow to a recording in a bad room with a
poor mic or preamp, but it won't add any flutter or hiss
either.

--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson


  #31   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
[email protected] 0junk4me@bellsouth.net is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,027
Default DIY multi-track with cassette recorders?


Mike Rivers writes:
gjsmo wrote:
I guess maybe an ADAT would be okay. Not too crazy about it, but..
. Can you notice any sort of digital artifacts in ADAT? Bottom
line, does it sound more analog-y or digital-y?

It sounds pretty much like what goes into it. It won't add
that warm analog glow to a recording in a bad room with a
poor mic or preamp, but it won't add any flutter or hiss
either.

I can't see where anybody wanting to gang a bunch of cheapo
cassette recorder together to do a diy multitrack would find
anything objectionable in the adat converters.

WIth a small mixer and your adat, and some mics, you can get
to the fun of recording, then as your ear becomes better
trained make improvements as you need them and they make
sense.





Richard webb,

replace anything before at with elspider
ON site audio in the southland: see www.gatasound.com


  #33   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 16,853
Default DIY multi-track with cassette recorders?

I guess maybe an ADAT would be okay. Not too crazy about it, but...
Can you notice any sort of digital artifacts in ADAT? Bottom line,
does it sound more analog-y or digital-y?


The ADAT is almost singlehandedly responsible for the bad reputation that
digital recording has in some circles. It's pretty nasty.

But man, it's a big step up from an 8-track cassette.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  #34   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
[email protected] 0junk4me@bellsouth.net is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,027
Default DIY multi-track with cassette recorders?


On 2010-08-17 said:
I can't see where anybody wanting to gang a bunch of cheapo
cassette recorder together to do a diy multitrack would find
anything objectionable in the adat converters.

Yeah, but the cassettes are ANALOG, man, ANALOG!!!!

LIke he'd know the difference. yeah right. SOunds to me
like he'd do fine with the adats. either get the adats and
then start recording, or maybe find a hobby he would
actually understand. I suggest maybe playing with his toes.






Richard webb,

replace anything before at with elspider
ON site audio in the southland: see www.gatasound.com


  #35   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
gjsmo gjsmo is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 135
Default DIY multi-track with cassette recorders?

On Aug 17, 12:17*pm, wrote:
On 2010-08-17 said:
* * I can't see where anybody wanting to gang a bunch of cheapo
* * cassette recorder together to do a diy multitrack would find
* * anything objectionable in the adat converters.
* *Yeah, but the cassettes are ANALOG, man, ANALOG!!!!
LIke he'd know the difference. *yeah right. *SOunds to me
like he'd do fine with the adats. *either get the adats and
then start recording, or maybe find a hobby he would
actually understand. *I suggest maybe playing with his toes.

Richard webb,

replace anything before at with elspider
ON site audio in the southland: seewww.gatasound.com


uh.. yeah, whatever.
Explain the perfect recording I did (1st take, too) on an old, crummy
Technics cassette recorder. Turned out so much better than my digital
recordings.
I'd send it to you, but I can't find the tape .
I'd be plenty happy with an analog recorder. Or an ADAT, till I get
some money.


  #36   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
[email protected] 0junk4me@bellsouth.net is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,027
Default DIY multi-track with cassette recorders?


On 2010-08-17 said:
Explain the perfect recording I did (1st take, too) on an old,
crummy Technics cassette recorder. Turned out so much better than
my digital recordings.
I'd send it to you, but I can't find the tape .
I'd be plenty happy with an analog recorder. Or an ADAT, till I get
some money.


Understood. THe data is actually a fair bargain for you,
concentrate your efforts on the rest of the signal chain,
reasonable mics that you might not have, and your work. A
better fit than narrow format analog or cassette and I"m
being totally up front serious with you. Enough like analog
in the user interface, you spend your time making music and
capturing sound, not troubleshooting a complex daw.

Best part of it is, when you're ready to mix those tracks
and want a pro control room with pro ears to help you out,
Adat litepipe is everywhere man, and I"m serious. were I
doing what I presume you're doing that's the way I"d go.

I did the narrow formats, cassette, 2 tracks on 1/4 inch
back in the '70's capturing stuff in garages, church
basements and wherever grin. IT was just as much fun
then. Bouncing tracks between two different two-track
machines, and formats, etc. Yeah lots of fun.

IN all seriousness, at the level you're playing at the adat
would be your best tool. when/if something merits further
production with facilities you haven't got bring in your
adat, hook up the litepipe to dump your tracks to the daw or
a machine with a higher track count, you're off to the
races. NO funny file format conversion hoops to jump, etc.
I guess that's my question, though a bit sarcastic in asking
it the way I did. What's not to like about the adat right
now? YOu answered that one.

Save a few shekels if you have to, and get the adat.
Immediate quality improvement, and still works as you're
used to working.



Richard webb,

replace anything before at with elspider
ON site audio in the southland: see
www.gatasound.com


  #37   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
gjsmo gjsmo is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 135
Default DIY multi-track with cassette recorders?

On Aug 17, 6:05*pm, wrote:
Understood. *THe data is actually a fair bargain for you,
concentrate your efforts on the rest of the signal chain,
reasonable mics that you might not have, and your work. *A
better fit than narrow format analog or cassette and I"m
being totally up front serious with you. *Enough like analog
in the user interface, you spend your time making music and
capturing sound, not troubleshooting a complex daw.


I've actually got some good enough mics for what I want to do. Would
it help you understanding my situation if I said I'm in high school?
Yeah. I just bought a $1500 computer, but I've only got the one, and
it's not going to be in the band room. I've got 2 MXL condensers, a
Behringer XENYX 802 mixer and a Boss BR-600, which I'm currently
using. I actually really like it, auto punches are SO easy (besides
the 300 or so FX presets). Problem is, it's only 2-track recording
(but 8-track playback).

So I found these cassette recorders at a recycling place, and got them
for literally nothing. They apparently came from the local university.
They work good enough, so I figured it can't be hard, right? Now the
best idea with them seems to be mounting them inside a VCR. Seems like
it might be hard, but I'm up to it. Sort of.


Best part of it is, when you're ready to mix those tracks
and want a pro control room with pro ears to help you out,
Adat litepipe is everywhere man, and I"m serious. *were I
doing what I presume you're doing that's the way I"d go.

I did the narrow formats, cassette, 2 tracks on 1/4 inch
back in the '70's capturing stuff in garages, church
basements and wherever grin. *IT was just as much fun
then. *Bouncing tracks between two different two-track
machines, and formats, etc. *Yeah lots of fun.

IN all seriousness, at the level you're playing at the adat
would be your best tool. *when/if something merits further
production with facilities you haven't got bring in your
adat, hook up the litepipe to dump your tracks to the daw or
a machine with a higher track count, you're off to the
races. *NO funny file format conversion hoops to jump, etc.
I guess that's my question, though a bit sarcastic in asking
it the way I did. *What's not to like about the adat right
now? *YOu answered that one.


Sounds good. What's not to like about ADAT? well... seems like it gets
as many horror stories as endorsments.

Save a few shekels if you have to, and get the adat.
Immediate quality improvement, and still works as you're
used to working.


I honestly don't think there's much that sounds better than these
cassette recorders without getting top-of-the-line equipment.
Seriously, they sound really good. I've listened to them on my studio
headphones, and Sennheiser earbuds, and they're great. You don't have
to believe me, but they do.

Oh... and about being in high school. I'm smarter than you might think
- I built a calculator from bare chips once. Of course, it only worked
in binary, but... I'm not bad at programming either (C++).

  #38   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Cyberserf[_2_] Cyberserf[_2_] is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 67
Default DIY multi-track with cassette recorders?

On Aug 17, 6:14*pm, gjsmo wrote:
On Aug 17, 6:05*pm, wrote:

Understood. *THe data is actually a fair bargain for you,
concentrate your efforts on the rest of the signal chain,
reasonable mics that you might not have, and your work. *A
better fit than narrow format analog or cassette and I"m
being totally up front serious with you. *Enough like analog
in the user interface, you spend your time making music and
capturing sound, not troubleshooting a complex daw.


I've actually got some good enough mics for what I want to do. Would
it help you understanding my situation if I said I'm in high school?
Yeah. I just bought a $1500 computer, but I've only got the one, and
it's not going to be in the band room. I've got 2 MXL condensers, a
Behringer XENYX 802 mixer and a Boss BR-600, which I'm currently
using. I actually really like it, auto punches are SO easy (besides
the 300 or so FX presets). Problem is, it's only 2-track recording
(but 8-track playback).

So I found these cassette recorders at a recycling place, and got them
for literally nothing. They apparently came from the local university.
They work good enough, so I figured it can't be hard, right? Now the
best idea with them seems to be mounting them inside a VCR. Seems like
it might be hard, but I'm up to it. Sort of.



Best part of it is, when you're ready to mix those tracks
and want a pro control room with pro ears to help you out,
Adat litepipe is everywhere man, and I"m serious. *were I
doing what I presume you're doing that's the way I"d go.


I did the narrow formats, cassette, 2 tracks on 1/4 inch
back in the '70's capturing stuff in garages, church
basements and wherever grin. *IT was just as much fun
then. *Bouncing tracks between two different two-track
machines, and formats, etc. *Yeah lots of fun.


IN all seriousness, at the level you're playing at the adat
would be your best tool. *when/if something merits further
production with facilities you haven't got bring in your
adat, hook up the litepipe to dump your tracks to the daw or
a machine with a higher track count, you're off to the
races. *NO funny file format conversion hoops to jump, etc.
I guess that's my question, though a bit sarcastic in asking
it the way I did. *What's not to like about the adat right
now? *YOu answered that one.


Sounds good. What's not to like about ADAT? well... seems like it gets
as many horror stories as endorsments.

Save a few shekels if you have to, and get the adat.
Immediate quality improvement, and still works as you're
used to working.


I honestly don't think there's much that sounds better than these
cassette recorders without getting top-of-the-line equipment.
Seriously, they sound really good. I've listened to them on my studio
headphones, and Sennheiser earbuds, and they're great. You don't have
to believe me, but they do.

Oh... and about being in high school. I'm smarter than you might think
- I built a calculator from bare chips once. Of course, it only worked
in binary, but... I'm not bad at programming either (C++).


LOL...how relevant....You can get a used Presonus Firebox (6i-10o) for
under $200...seriously...analog is soooo anal.

-CS
  #39   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
gjsmo gjsmo is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 135
Default DIY multi-track with cassette recorders?

On Aug 17, 7:48*pm, Cyberserf wrote:
LOL...how relevant....You can get a used Presonus Firebox (6i-10o) for
under $200...seriously...analog is soooo anal.


Why? Any reason? It would work fine for me, if it was cheaper.
  #40   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 16,853
Default DIY multi-track with cassette recorders?

gjsmo wrote:
On Aug 17, 7:48=A0pm, Cyberserf wrote:
LOL...how relevant....You can get a used Presonus Firebox (6i-10o) for
under $200...seriously...analog is soooo anal.


Why? Any reason? It would work fine for me, if it was cheaper.


I love it, and I use it all the time, but figure $2k for a good 8-track 1"
setup with clean heads and a couple reels of tape, minimum. And really
it's the tape costs that will kill you.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Reply
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
FA: Last 2 Hours! Pioneer Multi-Cassette Changer CT-M5R (6 cassette) AV Surplus Marketplace 1 December 5th 04 11:34 PM
FA: Last 4 Hours! Pioneer Multi-Cassette Changer CT-M5R (6 cassette) AV Surplus Marketplace 0 December 5th 04 08:43 PM
FA: 1-INCH 16-TRACK OTARI MX70 MULTI TRACK ANALOG TAPE RECORDER LR Steve Puntolillo Marketplace 1 October 24th 04 06:58 AM
FA: 1-INCH 16-TRACK OTARI MX70 MULTI TRACK ANALOG TAPE RECORDER LR Steve Puntolillo Pro Audio 1 October 24th 04 06:58 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:12 PM.

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 AudioBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about Audio and hi-fi"