[[email protected]]

In my quest for ways to increase my earning potential (and to stay in
the
recording business!) a friend suggested that I look into becoming an
audio
forensics dude. Do any of you folks have experience, strength and/or
hope
to share? He pointed me in the direction of these guys:

http://www.tracertek.com/index.asp?P...ROD&ProdID=122

They make software that is supposed to be comparable to the mega-buck
software
that the big kids (whoever they are!) use and they also offer training
in
using their system. Unfortunately it's PC only (I'm a Mac dude), but
we have an HP laptop
that I could use w/ Windows XP-Pro and I have a MOTU 828 MK. II, which
might
work...

Any thoughts?

Gantt

[tmaki]

wrote:
In my quest for ways to increase my earning potential a friend suggested that I look into becoming an
audio forensics dude.

http://www.tracertek.com/index.asp?P...ROD&ProdID=122

They make software that is supposed to be comparable to the mega-buck
software that the big kids (whoever they are!)


Wes Dooley is one. But I certainly wouldn't classify Wes as
a kid or "dude" with any inflection.

He's written a bit that you might find thought-provoking,
challenging, daunting, discouraging, or perhaps encouraging
depending where you are on the "dude" scale:

http://www.wesdooley.com/aea/FAREC.html

Good luck...dude.



TM

[Eeyore]

" wrote:

In my quest for ways to increase my earning potential (and to stay in
the recording business!) a friend suggested that I look into becoming an

audio forensics dude.

And where would you expect to pick up this kind of work, given that you
have no experience in it ?

Graham

[Scott Dorsey]

wrote:
Any thoughts?

Forensic audio work is very different than audio production, and a whole
lot of it has to do with managing legal issues.

I suggest you read the basic writeup in the latest JAES which talks about
some of the current research being done. Go to AES show and meet some of
the people on the forensic audio committee. Get an apprenticeship for a
couple of years.

It's a very weird sort of thing, but it does involve some audio. Most of
the required skillset, though, isn't related to the technology. And a lot
of technology is very different than what you'll find in a typical studio.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[[email protected]]

Phrases like "the big kids" and "Mac dude" are expressions that I use
to lighten things up a little in my posts. I don't post here much
and, apparently, my style doesn't go over well with some of you
folks. While I am, no doubt, nowhere near Wes Dooley's level in the
audio industry, I have been working and making my living recording and
mixing music for the last 20 years. I'm 56 years old and my studio
has slowed down enough to make be realize that I need to broaden my
horizons if I'm going to be able to continue to support my wife and
two children. I will follow your link and I appreciate any and all
information I can gather while researching this. Your sarcasm isn't
necessary.

Thanks,

Gantt

On May 5, 9:49*pm, Tmaki wrote:

Wes Dooley is one. But I certainly wouldn't classify Wes as
a kid or "dude" with any inflection.

He's written a bit that you might find thought-provoking,
challenging, daunting, discouraging, or perhaps encouraging
depending where you are on the "dude" scale:

http://www.wesdooley.com/aea/FAREC.html

Good luck...dude.

TM

[[email protected]]

A good question. Scott's suggestion to find someone to work with and
learn from seems like a very good one. I also have friends in law
enforcement who can hopefully give me some guidence.

Thanks,

Gantt

On May 5, 9:53*pm, Eeyore
wrote:


And where would you expect to pick up this kind of work, given that you
have no experience in it ?

Graham

[tmaki]

wrote:
Phrases like "the big kids" and "Mac dude" are expressions that I use
to lighten things up a little in my posts.

"Dude" always conjures up an image of something out of
"Wayne's World" or "Dumb and Dumber". Hard to imagine a
56-yr-old man in terms of "dude". I'm 58, been in the
business 37 years, and kind of consider any kind of "-dude"
not a serious player. But you might be the exception.

I use sarcasm to lighten things up a little in my posts.

Apparently, my style doesn't go over well with some of you
folks.

Carry on...


TM

[[email protected]]

Let's start over.

Thanks for the Wes Dooley link. I'm going to print it out and read it
later. I may, indeed, get discouraged from this idea, but I'll learn
something new, one way or the other.

I have a 10 year old son who calls me "dude" all the time. He thinks
it's funny. Ah well.

Thanks,

Gantt

On May 5, 10:17*pm, Tmaki wrote:
wrote:
Phrases like "the big kids" and "Mac dude" are expressions that I use
to lighten things up a little in my posts.

"Dude" always conjures up an image of something out of
"Wayne's World" or "Dumb and Dumber". Hard to imagine a
56-yr-old man in terms of "dude". I'm 58, been in the
business 37 years, and kind of consider any kind of "-dude"
not a serious player. But you might be the exception.

I use sarcasm to lighten things up a little in my posts.

Apparently, my style doesn't go over well with some of you
folks.

Carry on...

TM

[tmaki]

wrote:
Let's start over.

No sweat...

Thanks for the Wes Dooley link. I'm going to print it out and read it
later. I may, indeed, get discouraged from this idea, but I'll learn
something new, one way or the other.

He also makes reference to other publications that
could/would be useful. You might also contact the National
Court Reporters Association. There are similar issues in
their field, and it could help broaden your perspective.

I've done my share of forensic audio work over the years,
and I never fail to get a little nervous when a law
enforcement agency or attorney calls needing something done.
It's not so bad if it's a P.I. or individual needing a
telephone answering machine tape cleaned up. And the
occasional deposition, board meeting or arbitration hearing
is a lot less stressful, but a lot more boring.

The realization that you may indeed have someone's future in
your hands can be sobering. Adhering to proper procedure and
rules pertaining to evidence is almost more important than
the technical process.


I have a 10 year old son who calls me "dude" all the time. He thinks
it's funny. Ah well.


Hey, my 50-, 55-, and 60-year-old friends and I call each
other "Dude" in just about every other sentence. We call
each other "Hoser" and "Douche-bag", too. (Our wives and
ladies just roll their eyes...) Didn't mean to be hard on
you. Trying to visualize a courtroom, "Your Honor, the tape
presented as evidence was electronically enhanced and was
certified as genuine by Forensic Audio Dude here in town. We
could call Mr. Dude at FAD to give personal testimony to
that effect if it pleases the Court."

Good luck. It's a fascinating branch of the industry and can
be very entertaining. You get exposed to quite a different
cross-section of human behavior.



TM

[Paul Stamler]

wrote in message
...
A good question. Scott's suggestion to find someone to work with and
learn from seems like a very good one. I also have friends in law
enforcement who can hopefully give me some guidence.

I think that'd be a good way to go. I'd also add that, like most things in
audio, the person handling the software is really more crucial than the
software. That said, the stuff from Tracertek seems useful, although clunky
in its user interface. The big guys, by the way, tend to use things like
Cedar. I've used the Tracertek products for cleaning up 78s rather than
forensic work, and it's useful there if you use it with restraint. That
might not be the M.O. for forensics, though.

Peace,
Paul

[[email protected]]

I just finished reading Wes Dooley's white paper. So far I'm more
intrigued than discouraged but I can see that the water is deep and
different! I'm going to go looking for an Forensic Audio person in
the DC/Maryland area.

Gantt

On May 5, 9:49*pm, Tmaki wrote:

http://www.wesdooley.com/aea/FAREC.html

TM

[Glenn Dowdy[_2_]]

"Tmaki" wrote in message
...


Hey, my 50-, 55-, and 60-year-old friends and I call each other "Dude" in
just about every other sentence. We call each other "Hoser" and
"Douche-bag", too. (Our wives and ladies just roll their eyes...) Didn't
mean to be hard on you. Trying to visualize a courtroom, "Your Honor, the
tape presented as evidence was electronically enhanced and was certified
as genuine by Forensic Audio Dude here in town. We could call Mr. Dude at
FAD to give personal testimony to that effect if it pleases the Court."

The Dude abides.

Glenn D.

[tmaki]

wrote:
I just finished reading Wes Dooley's white paper. I'm going to go looking for an Forensic Audio person in
the DC/Maryland area.


Something tells me you won't have any difficulty finding
somebody in that area.

My step-daughter works in the Fraud and Criminal
Investigation department of the IRS. Want me to ask her who
they use?

:-)



TM

[Arny Krueger]

wrote in message

In my quest for ways to increase my earning potential
(and to stay in the
recording business!) a friend suggested that I look into
becoming an audio
forensics dude. Do any of you folks have experience,
strength and/or hope
to share? He pointed me in the direction of these guys:

http://www.tracertek.com/index.asp?P...ROD&ProdID=122

They make software that is supposed to be comparable to
the mega-buck software
that the big kids (whoever they are!) use and they also
offer training in
using their system. Unfortunately it's PC only (I'm a
Mac dude), but we have an HP laptop
that I could use w/ Windows XP-Pro and I have a MOTU 828
MK. II, which might
work...

Any thoughts?

I would think that the trick would be to have connections with law
enforcement agencies and lawyers who need this sort of work done.

[[email protected]]

That would be awesome! You can email me w/ whatever you discover -
ganttmann at comcast dot net.

Thanks!

Gantt

On May 6, 11:44*am, Tmaki wrote:

My step-daughter works in the Fraud and Criminal
Investigation department of the IRS. Want me to ask her who
they use?

:-)

TM

[William Sommerwerck]

Other than the money... Do you have any true interest in doing this work? Do
you feel a calling for it?

If not... why bother?

[[email protected]]

Other than the money? I don't know. The research I've done so far
has been intriguing. Do I feel a calling for it? I've always known
that what I love doing the most is playing guitar. In spite of having
spent the better part of the last 44 years practicing, learning and
playing every chance I got, I can't make anything that resembles a
living playing guitar. I may just not be good enough. I may not live
in an area that has the kind of opportunities that translate into
making a decent living. Who knows? The facts are that I have a
family to support, I have 20 years of experience as an audio
professional and I'm looking for ways to increase my earning power.
Not too long ago I was contemplating becoming a Cisco certified
network engineer. I have no idea where this will all lead!

Gantt

On May 6, 8:38*pm, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:
Other than the money... Do you have any true interest in doing this work? Do
you feel a calling for it?

If not... why bother?

[Mogens V.]

wrote:
Other than the money? I don't know. The research I've done so far
has been intriguing. Do I feel a calling for it? I've always known
that what I love doing the most is playing guitar. In spite of having
spent the better part of the last 44 years practicing, learning and
playing every chance I got, I can't make anything that resembles a
living playing guitar. I may just not be good enough. I may not live
in an area that has the kind of opportunities that translate into
making a decent living. Who knows? The facts are that I have a
family to support, I have 20 years of experience as an audio
professional and I'm looking for ways to increase my earning power.
Not too long ago I was contemplating becoming a Cisco certified
network engineer. I have no idea where this will all lead!

If you're looking for serious income increase, just obtaining a Cisco
CCNA will greatly boost your chance for a very decent job. Work a year
or two like that, while aquiring a CCNP, and you'll make serious money.

No pun at all intended against music, audio or your forensics plans


On May 6, 8:38 pm, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:

Other than the money... Do you have any true interest in doing this work? Do
you feel a calling for it?

If not... why bother?


--
Kind regards,
Mogens V.

[Scott Dorsey]

Mogens V. wrote:
wrote:
Other than the money? I don't know. The research I've done so far
has been intriguing. Do I feel a calling for it? I've always known
that what I love doing the most is playing guitar. In spite of having
spent the better part of the last 44 years practicing, learning and
playing every chance I got, I can't make anything that resembles a
living playing guitar. I may just not be good enough. I may not live
in an area that has the kind of opportunities that translate into
making a decent living. Who knows? The facts are that I have a
family to support, I have 20 years of experience as an audio
professional and I'm looking for ways to increase my earning power.
Not too long ago I was contemplating becoming a Cisco certified
network engineer. I have no idea where this will all lead!

If you're looking for serious income increase, just obtaining a Cisco
CCNA will greatly boost your chance for a very decent job. Work a year
or two like that, while aquiring a CCNP, and you'll make serious money.

Yeah, but don't you actually have to use IOS? You couldn't pay me enough
money to deal with that stuff...
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Mogens V.]

Scott Dorsey wrote:
Mogens V. wrote:

wrote:

Other than the money? I don't know. The research I've done so far
has been intriguing. Do I feel a calling for it? I've always known
that what I love doing the most is playing guitar. In spite of having
spent the better part of the last 44 years practicing, learning and
playing every chance I got, I can't make anything that resembles a
living playing guitar. I may just not be good enough. I may not live
in an area that has the kind of opportunities that translate into
making a decent living. Who knows? The facts are that I have a
family to support, I have 20 years of experience as an audio
professional and I'm looking for ways to increase my earning power.
Not too long ago I was contemplating becoming a Cisco certified
network engineer. I have no idea where this will all lead!

If you're looking for serious income increase, just obtaining a Cisco
CCNA will greatly boost your chance for a very decent job. Work a year
or two like that, while aquiring a CCNP, and you'll make serious money.


Yeah, but don't you actually have to use IOS? You couldn't pay me enough
money to deal with that stuff...
--scott

Yes you do. The trick is of cause to get into a business actually using
Cisco who'll preferably pay for the cert, or, once you at least have
access to work with it, selfstudy. I took the two one-week cources, but
started on a new job three days later, so to read up on it and actually
study, I use Dynamips which runs actual IOS's in a virtual setup.
You'll need real IOS images, which is where Cisco makes the money
Or search the c.u.s NG for which 4-5 routers/switches to shop used.

IOW, when not having a Cisco job, it's a matter of paying to get there
and stay focused/dedicated, knowing income will follow.

--
Kind regards,
Mogens V.

[Mogens V.]

Mogens V. wrote:
You'll need real IOS images, which is where Cisco makes the money
Or search the c.u.s NG for which 4-5 routers/switches to shop used.

Typo, I meant the c.d.s.c NG..

--
Kind regards,
Mogens V.

[[email protected]]

You know, I'm still open to the idea of being a network engineer by
day, recording engineer by night and a guitar player on the weekends.
My concern about getting the Cisco training is that, at 56 years of
age, I'd have a hard time getting the security clearances that, I've
been told, are key to making really good money.

I'm also wide open to any and all suggestions and ideas about how to
find other ways of using my experience playing and recording music to
earn more money in this somewhat subdued economy.

gantt

On May 8, 12:33*pm, "Mogens V."
wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote:
Mogens V. wrote:

wrote:

Other than the money? *I don't know. *The research I've done so far
has been intriguing. *Do I feel a calling for it? *I've always known
that what I love doing the most is playing guitar. *In spite of having
spent the better part of the last 44 years practicing, learning and
playing every chance I got, I can't make anything that resembles a
living playing guitar. *I may just not be good enough. *I may not live
in an area that has the kind of opportunities that translate into
making a decent living. *Who knows? *The facts are that I have a
family to support, I have 20 years of experience as an audio
professional and I'm looking for ways to increase my earning power.
Not too long ago I was contemplating becoming a Cisco certified
network engineer. I have no idea where this will all lead!

If you're looking for serious income increase, just obtaining a Cisco
CCNA will greatly boost your chance for a very decent job. Work a year
or two like that, while aquiring a CCNP, and you'll make serious money.

Yeah, but don't you actually have to use IOS? *You couldn't pay me enough
money to deal with that stuff...
--scott

Yes you do. The trick is of cause to get into a business actually using
Cisco who'll preferably pay for the cert, or, once you at least have
access to work with it, selfstudy. I took the two one-week cources, but
started on a new job three days later, so to read up on it and actually
study, I use Dynamips which runs actual IOS's in a virtual setup.
You'll need real IOS images, which is where Cisco makes the money
Or search the c.u.s NG for which 4-5 routers/switches to shop used.

IOW, when not having a Cisco job, it's a matter of paying to get there
and stay focused/dedicated, knowing income will follow.

--
Kind regards,
Mogens V.

[sTeeVee]

On May 9, 9:23*am, "
wrote:
You know, I'm still open to the idea of being a network engineer by
day, recording engineer by night and a guitar player on the weekends.
My concern about getting the Cisco training is that, at 56 years of
age, I'd have a hard time getting the security clearances that, I've
been told, are key to making really good money.

I'm also wide open to any and all suggestions and ideas about how to
find other ways of using my experience playing and recording music to
earn more money in this somewhat subdued economy.

gantt

On May 8, 12:33*pm, "Mogens V."
wrote:



Scott Dorsey wrote:
Mogens V. wrote:

wrote:

Other than the money? *I don't know. *The research I've done so far
has been intriguing. *Do I feel a calling for it? *I've always known
that what I love doing the most is playing guitar. *In spite of having
spent the better part of the last 44 years practicing, learning and
playing every chance I got, I can't make anything that resembles a
living playing guitar. *I may just not be good enough. *I may not live
in an area that has the kind of opportunities that translate into
making a decent living. *Who knows? *The facts are that I have a
family to support, I have 20 years of experience as an audio
professional and I'm looking for ways to increase my earning power.
Not too long ago I was contemplating becoming a Cisco certified
network engineer. I have no idea where this will all lead!

If you're looking for serious income increase, just obtaining a Cisco
CCNA will greatly boost your chance for a very decent job. Work a year
or two like that, while aquiring a CCNP, and you'll make serious money..

Yeah, but don't you actually have to use IOS? *You couldn't pay me enough
money to deal with that stuff...
--scott

Yes you do. The trick is of cause to get into a business actually using
Cisco who'll preferably pay for the cert, or, once you at least have
access to work with it, selfstudy. I took the two one-week cources, but
started on a new job three days later, so to read up on it and actually
study, I use Dynamips which runs actual IOS's in a virtual setup.
You'll need real IOS images, which is where Cisco makes the money
Or search the c.u.s NG for which 4-5 routers/switches to shop used.

IOW, when not having a Cisco job, it's a matter of paying to get there
and stay focused/dedicated, knowing income will follow.

--
Kind regards,
Mogens V.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

In another life, I did some forensic engineering work for the vaunted
Bolt Beranek and Newman - now Ascentech of Cambridge MA. In order to
turn your interest in forensic audio into an income stream, you will
have to create a credibility stream first - meaning, you will have to
establish your reputation. To have the veracity and weight in a court
setting, you will have to be credible to a wide range of court-related
individuals, not the least of which are attorneys you will work for,
opposing attorneys, judges, opposing forensic experts, district
attorneys, attorneys general (I was grilled by an assistant attorney
general in one such situation) and other high-powered individuals.
Your involvement will have to be broader than just using a piece of
software to analyze the contents of a digital audio file. Even if you
are only analyzing audio files, you will have to do so within the
broader context of a court case. Only a broad background will allow
you to do that in a convincing and accurate way. So, you may wish to
find out what acoustical consulting firms are doing this kind of work
and take a position with them for some period of time until such time
that you can seriously establish your reputation. Then, you can start
your own practice and use it for one of several income streams.

Good luck,
-Steve Greene

[[email protected]]

Thanks, Steve. That makes good sense. I'm going to do some research
about local companies that do FA work

Gantt

On May 28, 5:53*pm, sTeeVee wrote:

- Show quoted text -

In another life, I did some forensic engineering work for the vaunted
Bolt Beranek and Newman - now Ascentech of Cambridge MA. In order to
turn your interest in forensic audio into an income stream, you will
have to create a credibility stream first - meaning, you will have to
establish your reputation. To have the veracity and weight in a court
setting, you will have to be credible to a wide range of court-related
individuals, not the least of which are attorneys you will work for,
opposing attorneys, judges, opposing forensic experts, district
attorneys, attorneys general (I was grilled by an assistant attorney
general in one such situation) and other high-powered individuals.
Your involvement will have to be broader than just using a piece of
software to analyze the contents of a digital audio file. Even if you
are only analyzing audio files, you will have to do so within the
broader context of a court case. Only a broad background will allow
you to do that in a convincing and accurate way. So, you may wish to
find out what acoustical consulting firms are doing this kind of work
and take a position with them for some period of time until such time
that you can seriously establish your reputation. Then, you can start
your own practice and use it for one of several income streams.

Good luck,
-Steve Greene