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lanstrad lanstrad is offline
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Default Yamaha console (ideally 02R v2 type or DM2000)... : use of 2TR-IN D2

Hi guys,

Thought I could ask this here.

I have an old Yamaha 02R version 2 and this is first time I make use of the 2TR-IN digital input at back that can be routed to stereo input channels 19/20 of that board.

I connected a Roland module (XV5080) digital output to that input, and used a BNC cable to ensure correct wordlock to be transmitted (between audio interface, console and that unit).

Everything works, except I wonder why the Yamaha console keeps asking me if I want to refuse that signal every time I launch all the gear... This is not a major issue (except first time as I had not seen it and started all kind of useless troubleshooting because signal was not coming ...)

So every time I launch, I need to ''cancel'' that warning (options are to either execute that refusal or cancel...)

Is there a way to simply stop that warning on the console ?

Thanks,
Rob
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Neil[_9_] Neil[_9_] is offline
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Default Yamaha console (ideally 02R v2 type or DM2000)... : use of 2TR-IND2

On 5/23/2015 11:40 AM, lanstrad wrote:
Hi guys,

Thought I could ask this here.

I have an old Yamaha 02R version 2 and this is first time I make use
of the 2TR-IN digital input at back that can be routed to stereo
input channels 19/20 of that board.

I connected a Roland module (XV5080) digital output to that input,
and used a BNC cable to ensure correct wordlock to be transmitted
(between audio interface, console and that unit).

Everything works, except I wonder why the Yamaha console keeps asking
me if I want to refuse that signal every time I launch all the
gear... This is not a major issue (except first time as I had not
seen it and started all kind of useless troubleshooting because
signal was not coming ...)

So every time I launch, I need to ''cancel'' that warning (options
are to either execute that refusal or cancel...)

Is there a way to simply stop that warning on the console ?

Thanks, Rob

Probably not. /What are you using to generate your wordclock?


--
best regards,

Neil
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Neil[_9_] Neil[_9_] is offline
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Default Yamaha console (ideally 02R v2 type or DM2000)... : use of 2TR-IND2

On 5/23/2015 11:40 AM, lanstrad wrote:
Hi guys,

Thought I could ask this here.

I have an old Yamaha 02R version 2 and this is first time I make use
of the 2TR-IN digital input at back that can be routed to stereo
input channels 19/20 of that board.

I connected a Roland module (XV5080) digital output to that input,
and used a BNC cable to ensure correct wordlock to be transmitted
(between audio interface, console and that unit).

Everything works, except I wonder why the Yamaha console keeps asking
me if I want to refuse that signal every time I launch all the
gear... This is not a major issue (except first time as I had not
seen it and started all kind of useless troubleshooting because
signal was not coming ...)

So every time I launch, I need to ''cancel'' that warning (options
are to either execute that refusal or cancel...)

Is there a way to simply stop that warning on the console ?

Thanks, Rob

Probably not. What are you using to generate the clock? Have you tried
it without, just to see if it syncs, or do you need a specific time code?

--
best regards,

Neil
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Mike Mike is offline
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Default Yamaha console (ideally 02R v2 type or DM2000)... : use of 2TR-IN D2

On Saturday, May 23, 2015 at 11:40:37 AM UTC-4, lanstrad wrote:

I have an old Yamaha 02R version 2 and this is first time I make use of the 2TR-IN digital input at back that can be routed to stereo input channels 19/20 of that board.

I connected a Roland module (XV5080) digital output to that input, and used a BNC cable to ensure correct wordlock to be transmitted (between audio interface, console and that unit).

Everything works, except I wonder why the Yamaha console keeps asking me if I want to refuse that signal every time I launch all the gear...


I can remember some gear from that era that got cranky about the order of digital inputs that come into it. If it sees that an external word clock signal is present before it knows to sync to that rather than its internal clock, it might complain. Same if it sees that a digital audio stream is present before it knows whether it's synchronized.

I see that the XV-5080 has a word clock input, but not a word clock output. Are you clocking the synth from the 02R? Does the 02R have an option either to use the external S/PDIF input as the word clock source? Or, alternatively, an option to re-clock the S/PDIF input to match the console's clock? (that might be called sample rate conversion, which it is) I assume they're both set to the same nominal sample rate.

I don't really know the specifics of either of those two devices, but perhaps you can make it start up cleanly by turning on the console first, letting it boot fully, and then turning on the synth.
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Neil Gould Neil Gould is offline
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Default Yamaha console (ideally 02R v2 type or DM2000)... : use of 2TR-IN D2

Mike wrote:
On Saturday, May 23, 2015 at 11:40:37 AM UTC-4, lanstrad wrote:

I have an old Yamaha 02R version 2 and this is first time I make use
of the 2TR-IN digital input at back that can be routed to stereo
input channels 19/20 of that board.

I connected a Roland module (XV5080) digital output to that input,
and used a BNC cable to ensure correct wordlock to be transmitted
(between audio interface, console and that unit).

Everything works, except I wonder why the Yamaha console keeps
asking me if I want to refuse that signal every time I launch all
the gear...


I can remember some gear from that era that got cranky about the
order of digital inputs that come into it. If it sees that an
external word clock signal is present before it knows to sync to that
rather than its internal clock, it might complain. Same if it sees
that a digital audio stream is present before it knows whether it's
synchronized.

I see that the XV-5080 has a word clock input, but not a word clock
output. Are you clocking the synth from the 02R?

Good point. Just run the SP/DIF of the XV into the O2R and it will sync
properly, no word clock required.
--
best regards,

Neil




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lanstrad lanstrad is offline
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Default Yamaha console (ideally 02R v2 type or DM2000)... : use of 2TR-IN D2

Hi again,

Thanks to both for your replies.

Actually i just found a quick fix which is the order of firing up things: if i first start the XV unit and let it boot completely, then after launch the yamaha and RME interface, i don't get the problem.

Indeed i might have avoided this (maybe) without BNC cable as i realized the xv unit was set to its internal clock, then i set it to external (incoming) and then i have installed the bnc cable....
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Neil Gould Neil Gould is offline
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Default Yamaha console (ideally 02R v2 type or DM2000)... : use of 2TR-IN D2

lanstrad wrote:
Hi again,

Thanks to both for your replies.

Actually i just found a quick fix which is the order of firing up
things: if i first start the XV unit and let it boot completely, then
after launch the yamaha and RME interface, i don't get the problem.

Indeed i might have avoided this (maybe) without BNC cable as i
realized the xv unit was set to its internal clock, then i set it to
external (incoming) and then i have installed the bnc cable....

Glad you found a solution. I have a similar setup, with an RME interface
connecting to a Yamaha AW4416, which is structurally very closely related to
the O2R. I never had a problem using external S/PDIF units feeding the 4416
and passing through the RME to the computer. I do use Word Clock when doing
a lot of looping, but that's rare and more complex than what you're trying
to do.
--
best regards,

Neil



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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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Default Yamaha console (ideally 02R v2 type or DM2000)... : use of 2TR-IN D2

Neil Gould wrote:

Good point. Just run the SP/DIF of the XV into the O2R and it will sync
properly, no word clock required.


BUT... when it does sync, the whole thing will reset and the audio will
blip! That's the point of having the master clock running.

This console is from the days when there was no internal rate conversion
going on typically... everything had to be clocked together.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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Mike Rivers[_2_] Mike Rivers[_2_] is offline
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Default Yamaha console (ideally 02R v2 type or DM2000)... : use of 2TR-IND2

On 5/25/2015 4:49 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
This console is from the days when there was no internal rate conversion
going on typically... everything had to be clocked together.


I peeked. Indeed there is no sample rate conversion option, however, the
coax S/PDIF inputs can go to two different paths. If this input is
selected by the monitor source switch, that path is self-synchronizing
and is independent of the mix bus sample rate. For example, you can be
recording at 48 kHz and listen to the digital output of a CD player
(44.1 kHz) without changing the console sample rate.

The other path for the S/PDIF input is to assign it to a couple of mix
channels. If you do that, the word clocks of the source and the console
have to be synchronized. Since this is what Rob is doing, word clock
sync is indeed necessary, in whatever direction is practical.

The reason why I thought that his 02R might have sample rate conversion
on the input is that the Mackie d8b, which actually came out earlier
than the 02Rv2, and maybe even before the original 02R had sample rate
conversion on the digital input as a switch-selectable option. The
Yamaha 02R96 had sample rate conversion available on the digital inputs.

As he has discovered, turn-on sequence can be fussy.



--
For a good time, visit http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com
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Neil Gould Neil Gould is offline
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Default Yamaha console (ideally 02R v2 type or DM2000)... : use of 2TR-IN D2

Scott Dorsey wrote:
Neil Gould wrote:

Good point. Just run the SP/DIF of the XV into the O2R and it will
sync properly, no word clock required.


BUT... when it does sync, the whole thing will reset and the audio
will blip! That's the point of having the master clock running.

This console is from the days when there was no internal rate
conversion going on typically... everything had to be clocked
together. --scott

I have never had a "blip" or sync problem running a single S/PDIF device
into my AW-4416, even when passing through to the DAW's RME card via the
AW's digital outputs. If one has multiple digital devices feeding the O2R,
they would need to be clocked together to keep things in sync, but that
would require them to have a clock input, which the OP's device lacks.
--
best regards,

Neil





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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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Default Yamaha console (ideally 02R v2 type or DM2000)... : use of 2TR-IN D2

Neil Gould wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote:
Neil Gould wrote:

Good point. Just run the SP/DIF of the XV into the O2R and it will
sync properly, no word clock required.


BUT... when it does sync, the whole thing will reset and the audio
will blip! That's the point of having the master clock running.

This console is from the days when there was no internal rate
conversion going on typically... everything had to be clocked
together. --scott

I have never had a "blip" or sync problem running a single S/PDIF device
into my AW-4416, even when passing through to the DAW's RME card via the
AW's digital outputs. If one has multiple digital devices feeding the O2R,
they would need to be clocked together to keep things in sync, but that
would require them to have a clock input, which the OP's device lacks.


You only have the blip when the sync signal changes and the machine needs
to resync. If you have a DAT machine as your source, putting in a new tape
and pressing play may cause a blip on other unrelated channels IF you don't
have the DAT machine locked to master sync and you have the console locking
to the incoming sync on the AES/EBU line.

The AW-4416 is a very different creature than Yamaha's conventional consoles
from that era, though. I never actually used one and I'm curious how it
behaves. For all I know it might resample everything.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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Neil Gould Neil Gould is offline
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Default Yamaha console (ideally 02R v2 type or DM2000)... : use of 2TR-IN D2

Scott Dorsey wrote:
Neil Gould wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote:
Neil Gould wrote:

Good point. Just run the SP/DIF of the XV into the O2R and it will
sync properly, no word clock required.

BUT... when it does sync, the whole thing will reset and the audio
will blip! That's the point of having the master clock running.

This console is from the days when there was no internal rate
conversion going on typically... everything had to be clocked
together. --scott

I have never had a "blip" or sync problem running a single S/PDIF
device into my AW-4416, even when passing through to the DAW's RME
card via the AW's digital outputs. If one has multiple digital
devices feeding the O2R, they would need to be clocked together to
keep things in sync, but that would require them to have a clock
input, which the OP's device lacks.


You only have the blip when the sync signal changes and the machine
needs to resync. If you have a DAT machine as your source, putting
in a new tape and pressing play may cause a blip on other unrelated
channels IF you don't have the DAT machine locked to master sync and
you have the console locking to the incoming sync on the AES/EBU line.

Well, again, your source needs to have a clock input for any of that to be
relevant. If it only has clock out, it's unlikely to be a good source for
master sync anyway.

The AW-4416 is a very different creature than Yamaha's conventional
consoles from that era, though. I never actually used one and I'm
curious how it behaves. For all I know it might resample everything.

The AW is in the same family as an O2R, and most of the I/O modules
available for them are interchangeble, which implies a common circuitry to a
point. The menu structure and options are similar too, except that the AW
has recording options. I would expect that them to behave similarly, and
have not experienced otherwise, though I've not had need to try the example
you gave.
--
best regards,

Neil



--scott



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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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Default Yamaha console (ideally 02R v2 type or DM2000)... : use of 2TR-IN D2

Neil Gould wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote:

You only have the blip when the sync signal changes and the machine
needs to resync. If you have a DAT machine as your source, putting
in a new tape and pressing play may cause a blip on other unrelated
channels IF you don't have the DAT machine locked to master sync and
you have the console locking to the incoming sync on the AES/EBU line.

Well, again, your source needs to have a clock input for any of that to be
relevant. If it only has clock out, it's unlikely to be a good source for
master sync anyway.


Right, that is the problem. Say you have a consumer DAT machine, for instance,
and it has no clock input so the _only way_ to use it digitally into the
console is to use it as the master.

CD players are the worst, though, since nearly anything you can do with the
player controls will cause the clock to drop out or shift.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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Neil[_9_] Neil[_9_] is offline
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Default Yamaha console (ideally 02R v2 type or DM2000)... : use of 2TR-IND2

On 5/27/2015 11:35 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Neil Gould wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote:

You only have the blip when the sync signal changes and the machine
needs to resync. If you have a DAT machine as your source, putting
in a new tape and pressing play may cause a blip on other unrelated
channels IF you don't have the DAT machine locked to master sync and
you have the console locking to the incoming sync on the AES/EBU line.

Well, again, your source needs to have a clock input for any of that to be
relevant. If it only has clock out, it's unlikely to be a good source for
master sync anyway.


Right, that is the problem. Say you have a consumer DAT machine, for instance,
and it has no clock input so the _only way_ to use it digitally into the
console is to use it as the master.

CD players are the worst, though, since nearly anything you can do with the
player controls will cause the clock to drop out or shift.
--scott

There's only so much one can do with consumer-level equipment. The up
side is that most of it is a lot better than the previous generations,
but one has to know the system limitations to get the most out of it.

--
best regards,

Neil
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