wrote:

Howard Ferstler wrote:
Clyde Slick wrote:

I have been to his house
I saw his highly coveted awards.
maybe he was just 'borrowing' someone elses house!
You are an idiot!

And I am supposed to believe YOU?

Why not? Art hasn't plagiarized anyone that we know of nor has he
published fraudulant DBTs. Not everyone is as dishonest as you.

Or as published, either, particularly compared to you,
tweako.

Howard Ferstler

Howard Ferstler wrote:
wrote:

Howard Ferstler wrote:
wrote:

OK you are a plagiarist and an idiot.
Read it and weep.
Main Entry: pla=B7gia=B7rize
Pronunciation: 'plA-j&-"rIz also -jE-&-
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): -rized; -riz=B7ing
Etymology: plagiary
Date: 1716
transitive senses
: to steal and pass off (the ideas or words of another) as one's
own :
use (another's production) without crediting the source
intransitive senses
: to commit literary theft : present as new and original an idea or
product derived from an existing source
- pla=B7gia=B7riz=B7er noun

Pronunciation Key

=A9 2001 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated
Merriam-Webster Privacy Policy
Doesn't say anything about being printed or published. Gosh a some
writer you are. You are a plagiarist who doesn't know the meaning
of
the word plagiarist. Haw haw haw.

And yet I am still in print, tweako, which is more than I
can say for you. And, no, posting on RAO is not being "in
print."


I'm not a writer so it really doesn't say anything at all. My work is
very much in print and actually generating quite a bit of revenue which
is definitely more than I can say for you. we are still waiting on the
sales figures of your books.




The world awaits your
compilation of the articles in question.

The world, by and large, has no interest and has no idea who the
hell
you are.

But obviously you do, given that you post rebuttals to my
comments on a regular basis.


Just as you continue to try to rebut my comments.



I think that your world kind of
revolves around mine, tweako.


No, I think your world revolves around my hobby. Sad.





Anyway, why do my editors keep publishing my stuff?



Desperation? Stupidity?




Actually, a high-end (yes, high end) speaker manufacturer
recently told me that after I reviewed his speakers he got
loads of messages asking for more info, and sales increased.


Yeah, and the moon is made of green cheese.



What's more, although the review appeared months ago
(actually, over a year ago), he told me that recently
somebody read my review in a hi-fi shop (the tattered
magazine copy apparently was kept on hand in a file) and
contacted the manufacturer about obtaining some speakers.



Yeah right.




So goes my fame in the world of audio. Haw, haw, hawwwww..

That casts a doubt on
anything you claim to write yourself.

Which is why I urge all of my readers to do their own DBT
work,

Really? You urge others to do DBTs because you are not
trust-worthy?
OK.....

No.

That's what you said. Make up your mind dimbulb.



Because nobody should take someone else's word for
something as subjective as sound differences between amps or
between wires. The very best way to be sure is to do the
comparing yourself. The articles were just starting-point
guides.

in order to see if they can hear what they say they
can hear when the blindfolds are not in place.

I have done that. You didn't like the results. Deal with it.

Not level matched properly, almost for sure.


Wrong. But I didn't corrupt the data like you did.





Remember, even if I were a published plagiarist,

You are. Think about it.

Yeah? Well tell us where the published items are located.


I knew asking you to think about it was asking too much. Right over
your head. You are a plagiarist who has been published. that makes you
a published plagiarist. You are also a raving idiot.




the
important point for YOU is to discover if your beliefs about
wires and amps can be substantiated - if only to benefit you
and nobody else.

Been there done that.

Bunk. You are a fake, tweako.



Howard not everyone is like you. deal with it.



Scott Wheeler

wrote:

Howard Ferstler wrote:
Clyde Slick wrote:

Look, stupid, all the guy posting here needs to do is steal
the real person's name.

Once again I am flattered that you think other people would want to be
me.

You miss the point, tweako.

In any case, what does being a makeup artist, or even an
Oscar winner, have to do with the guy being an expert on
audio?

Nothing. No one said it did. To bad you are too stupid to follow the
thread. By the way, I didn't win the Oscar. I was just nominated.

Cut the crap. You are a sockpuppet who is making use of
someone else's name.

At least I hope so. If you are the real McCoy, then you are
basically telling the whole world that a "famous" guy like
you is an idiot.

Not a very smart thing to do, tweako.

Howard Ferstler

Howard Ferstler wrote:
MINe 109 wrote:

In article ,
Howard Ferstler wrote:

And the moon is made of green cheese. At least people can
check publication records or the books and magazines
themselves to see that the texts I say I have published have
really been published.

Try a different sockpuppet handle, pal. The one you are
using now is worn out.

This is really despicable, Howard.

Says you. If this guy is who he says he is, the situation is
even worse. All of us would like to believe that famous
people (who are not murderers, at least) are smarter than
average and have level heads. That this guy does not tells
me one of two things:

1. Being famous does not make you smart.

2. The guy who posts here is borrowing a famous-person's
name.

If it is number 1, the guy is a disappointment, because we
want famous people to be smart; if it is number 2, you tell
me what is "really despicable."

Howard Ferstler

You really are amazingly stupid.



Scott Wheeler

Howard Ferstler wrote:
wrote:

Sander deWaal wrote:
"Howard Ferstler" said:

wrote:
Just because you are a phoney doesn't mean everyone else is
too.

At least I can prove that I have stuff in print (check
Amazon; check the newsstands). On the other hand, all we
have from you, Mr. Phony, are unsubstantiated and over
inflated statements about your accomplishments.

Bunk.


And how do we know you're not some kind of anonymous coward who
uses
the handle "Howard Ferstler" on usenet? ;-)

That's easy. He is as inept in print as he is on RAO.

And yet my editors keep printing my stuff and a publishing
outfit like Routledge actually looked me up to do the
technical editing and audio-notables biographical work for
the second edition of The Encyclopedia of Recorded Sound.

Howard Ferstler

The worst published writer in the world is still published. Think about
it. some of the worst hacks in the world still manage to get there
products to market. What were the sales of your books again Howard? Haw
haw haw.


Scott Wheeler

Howard Ferstler wrote:
wrote:

Howard Ferstler wrote:

Could be. However, I would have to be pretty crazy to own
all four of this individual's books, as well as a copy of
the $275 Encyclopedia of Recorded Sound that he helped to
edit.

That goes for anyone. I wonder if anyone has ever actually
purchased
all of your garbage. What a waste of money that would be.

Actually, before Amazon got tired of the pile up of space,
there were scads of pro and con commentaries about all four
of my books on their various customer-comment sites.


Good lord, your books don't even rank at Amazon? That is sad.



Yep, the books were being purchased, even by my enemies.



What were the sales again? Haw haw haw.




Well, some of the negative posts were no doubt put there by
guys like you, who had never read the books, but decided to
do a bit of childish vandalism.


Not everyone is like you Howard.



How do I know? Because they
claimed that I said things in the books that I did not say.



So says the fraud and plagiarist.




Scott Wheeler

Howard Ferstler wrote:
wrote:

Howard Ferstler wrote:
wrote:

Just because you are a phoney doesn't mean everyone else is
too.

At least I can prove that I have stuff in print (check
Amazon; check the newsstands). On the other hand, all we
have from you, Mr. Phony, are unsubstantiated and over
inflated statements about your accomplishments.

Bunk.

Are you trying to convince us that you are so stupid that you
cannot
even do a basic internet search? If so consider it a point proven.
You
are too stupid to do a simple basic internet search.

Anybody can steal a name, tweako, including you.

Besides, if you really were this guy your situation would be
even worse. What could be worse than someone putting forth
idiotic ideas like yours and not using a sockpuppet handle
to make sure people did not discover how dumb he is.


That is a question you really need to ask yourself. Who was dumb enough
to admit they corrupted the data on their own published DBT? Who was
dumb enough to present plagiarized work as an example of the quality of
their own work on RAO?




Heck, the real Scott Wheeler ought to be mortified by the
stuff you post here, the fact that you are claiming to be
him, and the fact that you hang around RAO so much. Gee, the
real Scott Wheeler at least has a job.


Actually two at the moment.




Invent a new name, tweako.

Howard Ferstler



Get in touch with reality nut job.




Scott Wheeler

wrote:

Howard Ferstler wrote:

And yet I am still in print, tweako, which is more than I
can say for you. And, no, posting on RAO is not being "in
print."

I'm not a writer

News flash!

so it really doesn't say anything at all. My work is
very much in print and actually generating quite a bit of revenue which
is definitely more than I can say for you. we are still waiting on the
sales figures of your books.

Bunk. You are a name-stealing sockpuppet.

The world awaits your
compilation of the articles in question.

The world, by and large, has no interest and has no idea who the
hell
you are.

But obviously you do, given that you post rebuttals to my
comments on a regular basis.

Just as you continue to try to rebut my comments.

I am retired. I sent off a bunch of articles to my publisher
yesterday, and now I am playing games with the nitwits on
RAO, including you, tweako.

I think that your world kind of
revolves around mine, tweako.

No, I think your world revolves around my hobby. Sad.

Tweako, I would not consider delusional behavior a hobby if
I were you.

Anyway, why do my editors keep publishing my stuff?

Desperation? Stupidity?

Keep believing that, tweako. They are at least pros, whereas
you are a sockpuppet.

Actually, a high-end (yes, high end) speaker manufacturer
recently told me that after I reviewed his speakers he got
loads of messages asking for more info, and sales increased.

Yeah, and the moon is made of green cheese.

What's more, although the review appeared months ago
(actually, over a year ago), he told me that recently
somebody read my review in a hi-fi shop (the tattered
magazine copy apparently was kept on hand in a file) and
contacted the manufacturer about obtaining some speakers.

Yeah right.

The magazines keep accepting my articles, tweako. In
addition, the people at Routledge actually came to me and
asked if I would do the technical article editing and
writing for the second edition of The Encyclopedia of
Recorded Sound. They like me, tweako.

Which is why I urge all of my readers to do their own DBT
work,

Really? You urge others to do DBTs because you are not
trust-worthy?
OK.....

No.

That's what you said. Make up your mind dimbulb.

Hey, the following sentence belongs with the word no. Learn
to edit, tweako.

Because nobody should take someone else's word for
something as subjective as sound differences between amps or
between wires. The very best way to be sure is to do the
comparing yourself. The articles were just starting-point
guides.

in order to see if they can hear what they say they
can hear when the blindfolds are not in place.

I have done that. You didn't like the results. Deal with it.

Not level matched properly, almost for sure.

Wrong. But I didn't corrupt the data like you did.

I'll bet you level matched with an SPL meter. Heck, I'll bet
you really did not level match at all. You just assumed that
your golden ears could sort out the level problems and spot
the real differences. Trust me, tweako, that you heard
differences automatically tells me that you blew the
comparison.

Remember, even if I were a published plagiarist,

You are. Think about it.

Yeah? Well tell us where the published items are located.

I knew asking you to think about it was asking too much. Right over
your head. You are a plagiarist who has been published. that makes you
a published plagiarist. You are also a raving idiot.

And published, tweako.

PS: learn to type.

the
important point for YOU is to discover if your beliefs about
wires and amps can be substantiated - if only to benefit you
and nobody else.

Been there done that.

Bunk. You are a fake, tweako.

Howard not everyone is like you. deal with it.

I do, and happily so. I would go nuts if I discovered that I
was as deluded as you guys are, tweako.

The next thing we know, you will actually begin to believe
that you are the real Scott Wheeler. From there, it is on to
genuine identity theft and then on to the slammer.

Howard Ferstler

wrote:

Howard Ferstler wrote:
wrote:

Sander deWaal wrote:
"Howard Ferstler" said:

wrote:
Just because you are a phoney doesn't mean everyone else is
too.

At least I can prove that I have stuff in print (check
Amazon; check the newsstands). On the other hand, all we
have from you, Mr. Phony, are unsubstantiated and over
inflated statements about your accomplishments.

Bunk.


And how do we know you're not some kind of anonymous coward who
uses
the handle "Howard Ferstler" on usenet? ;-)

That's easy. He is as inept in print as he is on RAO.

And yet my editors keep printing my stuff and a publishing
outfit like Routledge actually looked me up to do the
technical editing and audio-notables biographical work for
the second edition of The Encyclopedia of Recorded Sound.

Howard Ferstler

The worst published writer in the world is still published. Think about
it. some of the worst hacks in the world still manage to get there
products to market. What were the sales of your books again Howard? Haw
haw haw.

Learn to write.

Howard Ferstler

Howard Ferstler wrote:
wrote:

Howard Ferstler wrote:

And the moon is made of green cheese.

Gosh, you think the basic facts of my life and occupation are
fabricated lies designed to impress people? I am flattered.

Well, don't be, tweako. I did not say that the basic facts
of Scott Wheeler's life and occupation were fabricated. I
said that you are not the real Scott Wheeler. You are a name
stealer.


Same thing in effect. Are you really too stupid to know this?




However, if you Scott Wheeler, then you have committed a
serious blunder, because "famous people" should avoid making
fools of themselves in public.


I guess that gives you a license to continue to make a fool of
yourself.




Scott Wheeler

wrote:

Howard Ferstler wrote:

Actually, before Amazon got tired of the pile up of space,
there were scads of pro and con commentaries about all four
of my books on their various customer-comment sites.

Good lord, your books don't even rank at Amazon? That is sad.

Actually, my third book, The Home Theater Companion, had one
of the most active pages on the site for a while. (I think
the book still sells well used.) They don't rank much now,
because three of the four are out of print. I think the
Digital Audio Music List is still on the A-R Editions web
site. They sell to academic and music libraries, and they
keep their stuff in print for a long time.

Yep, the books were being purchased, even by my enemies.

What were the sales again? Haw haw haw.

I did OK, tweako, particularly with book number three. At
least I had the fortitude to get the things into print. That
takes more steam than demonstrating bad typing, bad
spelling, and bad grammar skills on RAO like you do.

Well, some of the negative posts were no doubt put there by
guys like you, who had never read the books, but decided to
do a bit of childish vandalism.

Not everyone is like you Howard.

Certainly that is the case with you, tweako. At least I use
my real name.

Howard Ferstler

wrote:

Howard Ferstler wrote:

Invent a new name, tweako.

Get in touch with reality nut job.

And get a real job, tweako.

Howard Ferstler

"Lionel" wrote in message
...
Clyde Slick a écrit :
"Lionel" wrote in message
...

Clyde Slick a écrit :

"Lionel" wrote in message
.. .


Don't say thank you to a guy who disdains you, Dave.
You are now openly and stupidly supporting Sackman's xenophobic
propaganda. This gives us a precise idea of the filth in which you are
swimming now.



I am not fearful of foreigner's. It's just that
I don't like the arrogant, corrupt, and dishonest people in France.

You are not only a stupid xenophobe you are also a dangerous liar.
Your past posts are full of disdainful and calumnious declaration about
France and French in *general*...

In the '20s France has welcome a lot of Russian Jewish emigrants who were
fleeding the Soviets' savagery.
Their past and today testimonials totally dismiss you.

Your recent comments are just an other demonstration of your pathologic
jingoist xenophobia and are certainly the consequence of your total lack
of personality.

The weaker is the personality the stronger is the propention to the
caricatural generalizations... :-(



**** off, asshole.
You are a liar and an idiot.
I am not Xenophobic. My negative attitude
is directed only against France.

No in fact your negative attitude is directed only against *you*. You are
the only one to ignore that and this is very funny. The more you speak the
more you are ridiculous. ;-)


What are you babbling about this time?
Talk about ridiculous.


I'm not even a
Francophobe, because I'm not really scared of your ilk,
just annoyed and disgusted by them.

I understand and I share your point of view.
In fact Hitler wasn't really anti-semitic you know, he was just "annoyed"
and "disgusted" by Jewish people.
In the end he has murdered 6 millions of innocents so I'm not persuaded of
the importance of the nuance, sorry.


Chill. Don't worry, I'm not about
to round you up for a concentration camp.
In the meantime, work on your appreciation of nuance.



----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
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wrote:

Howard Ferstler wrote:

However, if you are Scott Wheeler, then you have committed a
serious blunder, because "famous people" should avoid making
fools of themselves in public.

I guess that gives you a license to continue to make a fool of
yourself.

Trust me. No outsider can be a fool when he comes to this
place you call home.

Get a life, tweako. Posting baloney on RAO on Sunday evening
is not a life. I can do it, because I am retired and have
spare time to burn. (At least once I get my audio-writing
work done for the month.) However, a big-time operative such
as yourself should find something more constructive to do
than defend a belief system that rationalizes your
viewpoints about your toys.

Howard Ferstler

An unknown entity stealing the identity of "Howard Ferstler"
wrote in message
...

Look, stupid, all the guy posting here needs to do is steal
the real person's name.

In any case, what does being a makeup artist, or even an
Oscar winner, have to do with the guy being an expert on
audio? He can be as deluded as the next idiot, including
you.





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Howard Ferstler wrote:
wrote:

Howard Ferstler wrote:

However, if you are Scott Wheeler, then you have committed a
serious blunder, because "famous people" should avoid making
fools of themselves in public.

I guess that gives you a license to continue to make a fool of
yourself.

Trust me. No outsider can be a fool when he comes to this
place you call home.


You are just babbling now.




Get a life, tweako.


I got one. You can't handle that fact. Hence your denial of my
identity.


Posting baloney on RAO on Sunday evening
is not a life.


Indeed, But we already knew you had no life.


I can do it, because I am retired and have
spare time to burn.


You are such an idiot. It is Sunday evening. Most of us are off Sunday
evenings. You've been making posts on Usenet for years in mass
quanities. You are pretty much calling the quality of your own life
into question here. Does anyone dispute that you have no life? I don't.


(At least once I get my audio-writing
work done for the month.) However, a big-time operative such
as yourself should find something more constructive to do
than defend a belief system that rationalizes your
viewpoints about your toys.



You overrate the quanity of time I spend here. You out do me by an
order of magnitude. But then your life does seem to revolve around my
posts these days and you are not a very bright person. Your mistake is
not surprising.



Scott Wheeler

"Howard Ferstler" wrote in message
...
wrote:

Howard Ferstler wrote:
wrote:

Just because you are a phoney doesn't mean everyone else is too.

At least I can prove that I have stuff in print (check
Amazon; check the newsstands). On the other hand, all we
have from you, Mr. Phony, are unsubstantiated and over
inflated statements about your accomplishments.

Bunk.

Are you trying to convince us that you are so stupid that you cannot
even do a basic internet search? If so consider it a point proven. You
are too stupid to do a simple basic internet search.

Anybody can steal a name, tweako, including you.

Besides, if you really were this guy your situation would be
even worse. What could be worse than someone putting forth
idiotic ideas like yours and not using a sockpuppet handle
to make sure people did not discover how dumb he is.

Heck, the real Scott Wheeler ought to be mortified by the
stuff you post here, the fact that you are claiming to be
him, and the fact that you hang around RAO so much. Gee, the
real Scott Wheeler at least has a job.

Stop this Howard.
You are looking quite ridiulous.



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Howard Ferstler wrote:
John Atkinson wrote:
Howard Ferstler wrote:
John Atkinson wrote:
Regarding Mr. Ferstler's plaintive cry for testing, both
Michael Fremer and I did take part in a series of public
amplifier tests at the 1988 AES convention. Our results
revealed statistically significant identification (to
the 95% confidence limit, if I remember correctly) but were
dismissed by skeptics on the gounds that we were just "lucky
coins."

Or, on a more practical level, you zeroed in on the click
noises generated by the ABX device.

What click noises, Mr. Ferstler? The switching in these tests,
organized by the AES, was silent.

No response from Mr. Ferstler.

you and your crew take a test like that, possibly pass by the
skins of your teeth, and then use that as justification for
proclaiming that amps that cost ten grand more than cheaper
versions are worth the cost. To me, that is spouting propaganda
to satisfy your knuckleheaded readers - who would dump the
magazine in a flash if you fessed up.

What is it about the phrase "statistically significant" that
you don't understand, Mr. Ferstler?

No response from Mr. Ferstler. Perhaps he didn't understand the
question.

In any case, I was merely instancing these tests to prove Arny
Krueger and you wrong when you both implied that "me and my crew"
would never take part in public blind tests of amplifiers. I have,
they have, Arny was wrong, you were wrong, end of story.

No response from Mr. Ferstler.

Oh, yes. Remember to not only bring up the subject of Howard
Ferstler when you visit Floyd and Sean...

Why are you obsessed with this planned visit of mine to Harman,
Mr. Ferstler? I mentioned it once briefly in passing. By
contrast, you have now referred to it more than 20 times.

With an attached amendment stating that you would bring up
my supposed perfidious behavior when you arrived at Harman.

You misuse the word "supposed," Mr. Ferstler. In every case I
mentioned you were caught with your figurative hand in the cookie
jar. You faked your test data, you presneted someone else's work
as your own, you fabricated supposedly factual text, and you
admitted pulling your critical punches in a published review.

I felt obligated to get Floyd and Sean ready to deal with
you.

"Deal with me"? I had assumed that I was going to learn something
about their work in loudspeaker design and measurement. Now you've
given me something to look forward to, Mr. Ferstler.

You got this ball rolling, John, and now I have decided to give
it a few kicks myself.

Was it by chance a "wrecking ball," Mr. Ferstler? :-)

By contrast, you have now referred to it more than 20 times. You
have claimed that you know Floyd Toole and Sean Olive; when was
the last time you actually met these gentlemen?

I have never met either of them...

So that's that, then, Mr. Ferstler.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

wrote in message
oups.com...



I guess that gives you a license to continue to make a fool of
yourself.


No, its his Professional Audio Clown license that allows him
to make a fool of himself.



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Howard Ferstler wrote:
wrote:

Howard Ferstler wrote:

And yet I am still in print, tweako, which is more than I
can say for you. And, no, posting on RAO is not being "in
print."

I'm not a writer

News flash!




Maybe for you. Try to keep up.




so it really doesn't say anything at all. My work is
very much in print and actually generating quite a bit of revenue
which
is definitely more than I can say for you. we are still waiting on
the
sales figures of your books.

Bunk. You are a name-stealing sockpuppet.



Once again I am flattered that you can not deal with the reality of my
career.





The world awaits your
compilation of the articles in question.

The world, by and large, has no interest and has no idea who
the
hell
you are.

But obviously you do, given that you post rebuttals to my
comments on a regular basis.

Just as you continue to try to rebut my comments.

I am retired. I sent off a bunch of articles to my publisher
yesterday, and now I am playing games with the nitwits on
RAO, including you, tweako.


IOW you are just playing the part of court jester on RAO because you
have nothing else in your life. Sad.




I think that your world kind of
revolves around mine, tweako.

No, I think your world revolves around my hobby. Sad.

Tweako, I would not consider delusional behavior a hobby if
I were you.


You will never be me. You will always be an insiginificant hack. Ooh
the truth is harsh sometimes. You are obsessed with hobbyists like me.
You went so far as to say we make you squirm. I suggest you take
control of your emotions and deal with the fact that some of us are
audiophiles for the purpose of enjoying our favorite music at it's
sonic best.





Anyway, why do my editors keep publishing my stuff?

Desperation? Stupidity?

Keep believing that, tweako. They are at least pros, whereas
you are a sockpuppet.


Pros? They barely have any circulation. They are the bottom of the
barrel.





Actually, a high-end (yes, high end) speaker manufacturer
recently told me that after I reviewed his speakers he got
loads of messages asking for more info, and sales increased.

Yeah, and the moon is made of green cheese.

What's more, although the review appeared months ago
(actually, over a year ago), he told me that recently
somebody read my review in a hi-fi shop (the tattered
magazine copy apparently was kept on hand in a file) and
contacted the manufacturer about obtaining some speakers.

Yeah right.

The magazines keep accepting my articles, tweako.


They clearly can not afford competent writers. With their circulation
this comes as no surprise.



In
addition, the people at Routledge actually came to me and
asked if I would do the technical article editing and
writing for the second edition of The Encyclopedia of
Recorded Sound. They like me, tweako.


They are obviously in the same financial situation. They also can not
afford competent writers for all their material.




Which is why I urge all of my readers to do their own DBT
work,

Really? You urge others to do DBTs because you are not
trust-worthy?
OK.....

No.

That's what you said. Make up your mind dimbulb.

Hey, the following sentence belongs with the word no. Learn
to edit, tweako.


The only correct editing of your work would be total rejection of it. I
am being kind.




Because nobody should take someone else's word for
something as subjective as sound differences between amps or
between wires. The very best way to be sure is to do the
comparing yourself. The articles were just starting-point
guides.

in order to see if they can hear what they say they
can hear when the blindfolds are not in place.

I have done that. You didn't like the results. Deal with it.

Not level matched properly, almost for sure.

Wrong. But I didn't corrupt the data like you did.

I'll bet you level matched with an SPL meter.


You would lose that bet.



Heck, I'll bet
you really did not level match at all.


Why do you keep assuming everyone is as incopetent and dishonest as
you?


You just assumed that
your golden ears could sort out the level problems and spot
the real differences. Trust me,



LOL trust a fraud and plagiarist? I think not.


tweako, that you heard
differences automatically tells me that you blew the
comparison.


IOW you don't like the results.




Remember, even if I were a published plagiarist,

You are. Think about it.

Yeah? Well tell us where the published items are located.

I knew asking you to think about it was asking too much. Right over
your head. You are a plagiarist who has been published. that makes
you
a published plagiarist. You are also a raving idiot.

And published, tweako.


Learn to read dimbulb. I said you were a plagiarist who has been
published.




PS: learn to type.



Learn to tell the truth.





the
important point for YOU is to discover if your beliefs about
wires and amps can be substantiated - if only to benefit you
and nobody else.

Been there done that.

Bunk. You are a fake, tweako.

Howard not everyone is like you. deal with it.

I do, and happily so.


Then why do you squirm?


I would go nuts if I discovered that I
was as deluded as you guys are, tweako.


Looks like you may have already discovered it. You clearly are nuts.




The next thing we know, you will actually begin to believe
that you are the real Scott Wheeler. From there, it is on to
genuine identity theft and then on to the slammer.



Yep, nuts.


Scott Wheeler

Howard Ferstler wrote:
wrote:

Howard Ferstler wrote:

Actually, before Amazon got tired of the pile up of space,
there were scads of pro and con commentaries about all four
of my books on their various customer-comment sites.

Good lord, your books don't even rank at Amazon? That is sad.

Actually, my third book, The Home Theater Companion, had one
of the most active pages on the site for a while. (I think
the book still sells well used.)


Riiiight that is why it doesn't rank now. You just can't stop lying can
you?



They don't rank much now,
because three of the four are out of print.


Plenty of out of print books still rank. I'm still waiting for your
sales figures. Haw haw haw.



I think the
Digital Audio Music List is still on the A-R Editions web
site. They sell to academic and music libraries, and they
keep their stuff in print for a long time.



Sales figures? Haw haw haw.





Yep, the books were being purchased, even by my enemies.

What were the sales again? Haw haw haw.

I did OK, tweako, particularly with book number three.


Liar. Prove it. Cite the sales figures.



At
least I had the fortitude to get the things into print.


I have plenty of my work in print dork. My stuff actually sells too.
Imagine that.




That
takes more steam than demonstrating bad typing, bad
spelling, and bad grammar skills on RAO like you do.


Is this some sort of dimensia taking hold?




Well, some of the negative posts were no doubt put there by
guys like you, who had never read the books, but decided to
do a bit of childish vandalism.

Not everyone is like you Howard.

Certainly that is the case with you, tweako. At least I use
my real name.


So do I, idiot.



Scott Wheeler

Howard Ferstler wrote:
wrote:

Howard Ferstler wrote:
wrote:

Sander deWaal wrote:
"Howard Ferstler" said:

wrote:
Just because you are a phoney doesn't mean everyone else
is
too.

At least I can prove that I have stuff in print (check
Amazon; check the newsstands). On the other hand, all we
have from you, Mr. Phony, are unsubstantiated and over
inflated statements about your accomplishments.

Bunk.


And how do we know you're not some kind of anonymous coward
who
uses
the handle "Howard Ferstler" on usenet? ;-)

That's easy. He is as inept in print as he is on RAO.

And yet my editors keep printing my stuff and a publishing
outfit like Routledge actually looked me up to do the
technical editing and audio-notables biographical work for
the second edition of The Encyclopedia of Recorded Sound.

Howard Ferstler

The worst published writer in the world is still published. Think
about
it. some of the worst hacks in the world still manage to get there
products to market. What were the sales of your books again Howard?
Haw
haw haw.

Learn to write.


Learn to read.


Scott Wheeler

Howard Ferstler wrote:
wrote:

Howard Ferstler wrote:

Invent a new name, tweako.

Get in touch with reality nut job.

And get a real job, tweako.



I already have two? That isn't enough?



Scott Wheeler

"Howard Ferstler" wrote in message
...

: Bunk. You are a name-stealing sockpuppet.
:
:Trust me, tweako, that you heard
: differences automatically tells me that you blew the
: comparison. [%]
:
: I do, and happily so. I would go nuts if I discovered that I
: was as deluded as you guys are, tweako.
:
: The next thing we know, you will actually begin to believe
: that you are the real Scott Wheeler. From there, it is on to
: genuine identity theft and then on to the slammer.
:
: Howard Ferstler

..........
% yep, that's how science works - Ferstler 'science', that is ;-)

hm, the rest of this post seems to be a continuation of some earlier
'work', let's see.. got it:
http://groups.google.nl/groups?hl=nl...ta=gr oup%3Dr
ec.audio.opinion
Howard Ferstler wrote:



I am beginning to think that maybe all but Chuck Ross are Zipser. Wolfgang
Goldberg, for sure, and possibly Fear3000 - aka "Felix.". Also a chance
that Briggs, Middius, Duraybito, Singh, Leeds, and Rothmann are also him, as
well. Or, else one of them is the original, with even Zipser being
somebody's invention. Whether we are dealing with a genuine split
personality or just someone with devious motives remains to be seen. It is
hard to believe that so many different people could have such strange ideas.


This is about the funniest thing I have ever read. Hey Howie, if you
were such a brilliant researcher, then why don't you perform some
basic research to find out if some of these people really exist. I,
for one, can be found through many references - if you know where to
look. Zipser is even easier to find. Oh, and by the way, the name is
spelled ROTHMAN, there is no double "n" at the end - our family name
does not hail from Germany. Rather it is an Americanization (courtesy
of Ellis Island) of a Ukranian/Russian name that roughly translates to
Reutman.

The other amazing thing is how you find the ideas of others to be so
"strange". The really odd part is that most who read your commments
have no idea that what you really find strange is not our views on
audio, but rather those we hold about life, consumer spending,
lifestyle issues, etc. Being the quasi-depression era child you are,
you have a hard time understanding how people can spend disposable
income in what you consider to be a reckless manner.

Fess up, Howie, that is your real problem, isn't it? [B. Rothman]...all of the
'sockpuppets' here, now ghosts of SZ, Howard ?

In article ,
Howard Ferstler wrote:

MINe 109 wrote:

In article ,
Howard Ferstler wrote:

And the moon is made of green cheese. At least people can
check publication records or the books and magazines
themselves to see that the texts I say I have published have
really been published.

Try a different sockpuppet handle, pal. The one you are
using now is worn out.

This is really despicable, Howard.

Says you.

You have a consistent record of attacking your repliers by claiming they
are fake despite evidence to the contrary. Worse, you published this
pipe dream of circular logic.

It's one thing if you're just having some fun on RAO, but you're way
past the point of being excused on that count.

If this guy is who he says he is, the situation is
even worse. All of us would like to believe that famous
people (who are not murderers, at least) are smarter than
average and have level heads.

And agree with you implicitly, right?

That this guy does not tells me one of two things:

1. Being famous does not make you smart.

Ditto being published. Say, weren't those Armor-All and $1.25 tweaks
published?

2. The guy who posts here is borrowing a famous-person's
name.

If it is number 1, the guy is a disappointment, because we
want famous people to be smart; if it is number 2, you tell
me what is "really despicable."

Your behavior.

Stephen

You're a chicken **** coward, Richie.

You're a 55 year old bicycle repairman failure
that lives at home with his old mommy and daddy.

This is your pathetic website:
http://www.ozarkbicycleservice.com

The address and phone number are your daddy's.

You're an ugly, tubby, throwback hippy liberal.

And you have a ready collection of Internet porn.

Accuse away.............

Clyde Slick a écrit :
"Lionel" wrote in message
...

Clyde Slick a écrit :

"Lionel" wrote in message
...


Clyde Slick a écrit :


"Lionel" wrote in message
. ..



Don't say thank you to a guy who disdains you, Dave.
You are now openly and stupidly supporting Sackman's xenophobic
propaganda. This gives us a precise idea of the filth in which you are
swimming now.



I am not fearful of foreigner's. It's just that
I don't like the arrogant, corrupt, and dishonest people in France.

You are not only a stupid xenophobe you are also a dangerous liar.
Your past posts are full of disdainful and calumnious declaration about
France and French in *general*...

In the '20s France has welcome a lot of Russian Jewish emigrants who were
fleeding the Soviets' savagery.
Their past and today testimonials totally dismiss you.

Your recent comments are just an other demonstration of your pathologic
jingoist xenophobia and are certainly the consequence of your total lack
of personality.

The weaker is the personality the stronger is the propention to the
caricatural generalizations... :-(



**** off, asshole.
You are a liar and an idiot.
I am not Xenophobic. My negative attitude
is directed only against France.

No in fact your negative attitude is directed only against *you*. You are
the only one to ignore that and this is very funny. The more you speak the
more you are ridiculous. ;-)



What are you babbling about this time?
Talk about ridiculous.

That's right you are not ridiculous, you are disgusting.

I'm not even a
Francophobe, because I'm not really scared of your ilk,
just annoyed and disgusted by them.

I understand and I share your point of view.
In fact Hitler wasn't really anti-semitic you know, he was just "annoyed"
and "disgusted" by Jewish people.
In the end he has murdered 6 millions of innocents so I'm not persuaded of
the importance of the nuance, sorry.



Chill. Don't worry, I'm not about
to round you up for a concentration camp.

Yes I agree, not you, at least not in a first time.
You are not enough intelligent and enterprising, you are a
hatemonger that true but you are mainly a *follower*.

In the meantime, work on your appreciation of nuance.

There's no nuance, no difference between you above discourse
and the most extremist propaganda.
We can easily find the same opinions in neo-nazi propaganda
or on the al qaida websites... They are using exactly the
same words and same arguments than you. Zero difference.

Do you want to make a quick survey with me ?

Tom a écrit :

You're a chicken **** coward, Richie.

You're a 55 year old bicycle repairman failure

Don't like sport Tom ? A 55 year old cycling enthusiast is
rarely a failure. Bike is a very stringent and difficult
sport, you know.

"Howard Ferstler" wrote in message

wrote:

Howard Ferstler wrote:
Clyde Slick wrote:

I have been to his house
I saw his highly coveted awards.
maybe he was just 'borrowing' someone elses house!
You are an idiot!

And I am supposed to believe YOU?

Why not? Art hasn't plagiarized anyone that we know of nor has he
published fraudulant DBTs. Not everyone is as dishonest as you.

Or as published, either, particularly compared to you,
tweako.

Better qualify that to read "published in audio". Scotty may have published
something about working with latex in a makeup artists magazine someplace.
BTW Howard, did you hear the one about the maketup artist who hung himself?

"Sander deWaal" wrote in message

"Howard Ferstler" said:


I make this point, because you are at liberty to ask me what
each book says about something on any page within any of
them. I will tell you about what is on each page (say, page
80 or each or page 150 of each, whatever) and you can then
determine if the guy here who is behaving as a Ferstler
sockpuppet is the real Ferstler instead. I would assume that
only the "real" Howard Ferstler would have all of those
books on hand.

Or a library nearby, or just a fan of such huge proportions* that not
only he uses Howard's name on Usenet, but he also has his collective
work in print on the shelf. ;-)

I'm sure you can, and I can't verify it since I don't have any of the
tomes nearby (not even in the local library, you will note).

IOW Sander's judgements of Ferstler's work are totally bogus.

"John Atkinson" wrote in message
oups.com

Regarding Mr. Ferstler's plaintive cry for testing, both
Michael Fremer and I did take part in a series of public
amplifier tests at the 1988 AES convention. Our results
revealed statistically significant identification (to
the 95% confidence limit, if I remember correctly) but were
dismissed by skeptics on the gounds that we were just "lucky
coins."

"Lucky coins"? That seems like a pretty good description of listening tests
that can only muster 95% confidence.

As I recall, the purpose of these tests was to justify the existence of a
number of high end ragazines, the SP RCL, and in some sense a big chunk of
the high end audio industry. A task that big needs a tad more support.

"Lionel" wrote in message
...
Clyde Slick a écrit :
"Lionel" wrote in message
...

Clyde Slick a écrit :

"Lionel" wrote in message
.. .


Clyde Slick a écrit :


"Lionel" wrote in message
.. .



Don't say thank you to a guy who disdains you, Dave.
You are now openly and stupidly supporting Sackman's xenophobic
propaganda. This gives us a precise idea of the filth in which you
are swimming now.



I am not fearful of foreigner's. It's just that
I don't like the arrogant, corrupt, and dishonest people in France.

You are not only a stupid xenophobe you are also a dangerous liar.
Your past posts are full of disdainful and calumnious declaration about
France and French in *general*...

In the '20s France has welcome a lot of Russian Jewish emigrants who
were fleeding the Soviets' savagery.
Their past and today testimonials totally dismiss you.

Your recent comments are just an other demonstration of your pathologic
jingoist xenophobia and are certainly the consequence of your total
lack of personality.

The weaker is the personality the stronger is the propention to the
caricatural generalizations... :-(



**** off, asshole.
You are a liar and an idiot.
I am not Xenophobic. My negative attitude
is directed only against France.

No in fact your negative attitude is directed only against *you*. You are
the only one to ignore that and this is very funny. The more you speak
the more you are ridiculous. ;-)



What are you babbling about this time?
Talk about ridiculous.

That's right you are not ridiculous, you are disgusting.

I'm not even a
Francophobe, because I'm not really scared of your ilk,
just annoyed and disgusted by them.

I understand and I share your point of view.
In fact Hitler wasn't really anti-semitic you know, he was just "annoyed"
and "disgusted" by Jewish people.
In the end he has murdered 6 millions of innocents so I'm not persuaded
of the importance of the nuance, sorry.



Chill. Don't worry, I'm not about
to round you up for a concentration camp.

Yes I agree, not you, at least not in a first time.
You are not enough intelligent and enterprising, you are a hatemonger that
true but you are mainly a *follower*.

In the meantime, work on your appreciation of nuance.

There's no nuance, no difference between you above discourse and the most
extremist propaganda.
We can easily find the same opinions in neo-nazi propaganda or on the al
qaida websites... They are using exactly the same words and same arguments
than you. Zero difference.

Do you want to make a quick survey with me ?

You are a complete idiot.
A moron.



----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

"Lionel" wrote

Tom a écrit :

You're a chicken **** coward, Richie.

You're a 55 year old bicycle repairman failure

Don't like sport Tom ? A 55 year old cycling enthusiast is rarely a
failure. Bike is a very stringent and difficult sport, you know.

I'm aware of that. I'm sure Richie is an enthusiast.
However, he's an ugly tub of lard, so I don't think he rides
very hard..... Also, he's living at home with his daddy. If he
were slightly successful - , he would have a place of his own.
He'a all the things that he accuses other people of being.
He calls me a failure. I believe you call that transference.
He knows he's a failure, so it's the worst thing he can hope
for me. He calls me "Tammy". This shows he has a big
problem with his manhood. More transference.
This also explains his extreme anger, resentment and
vengeance.

BTW, I love sports. If you went to all the websites, Richie
provided the world, you saw a picture of me windsurfing
on the Columbia River in The Gorge. If you went to one
of the websites I provided, you saw a picture of Richie
fixing a bicycle - not riding. Windsurfing is very big in France.
If you know anything, you know that The Gorge is the high
wind Mecca for the world's windsurfers. I'm going on a
windsurfing vacation next month. shhhh. don't tell Richie.
he'll be more ****ed and jealous.

Arny Krueger wrote:
"John Atkinson" wrote in message
oups.com
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message

"Howard Ferstler" wrote in message

I still think it would be cool if John and some of his
associates and Arny and some of his supporters openly
participated in an open and public, level-matched DBT...

That is way too risky to the reputations of the usual list of
suspects, to ever happen

I reinstated this statement of yours, Mr. Krueger, because it is
the point of yours that I was proving incorrect with the following
text:

Regarding Mr. Ferstler's plaintive cry for testing, both
Michael Fremer and I did take part in a series of public
amplifier tests at the 1988 AES convention. Our results
revealed statistically significant identification (to
the 95% confidence limit, if I remember correctly) but were
dismissed by skeptics on the gounds that we were just "lucky
coins."

"Lucky coins"? That seems like a pretty good description of
listening tests that can only muster 95% confidence.

Regardless of your opinion of the statistics of these test
results, Mr. Krueger, the fact that Michael Fremer and I _did_
take part in a public blind listening test of amplifiers,
regardless of the "risk to our reputations" proves your
statement above incorrect.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

"John Atkinson" wrote in message
oups.com
Arny Krueger wrote:
"John Atkinson" wrote in message
oups.com
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message

"Howard Ferstler" wrote in message


I still think it would be cool if John and some of his
associates and Arny and some of his supporters openly
participated in an open and public, level-matched DBT...

That is way too risky to the reputations of the usual list of
suspects, to ever happen

Note that had I meant to say that it had never happened, I would have said
that it never happened. Instead, I used words that are oriented towards a
future event. One obvious clue that the sentence is incomplete is the
absence of a period. I apparently got distracted by say a phone call, and
never finished the sentence properly. Had I finished the sentence I intented
to write I would have typed the word again, followed by a period.

I reinstated this statement of yours, Mr. Krueger, because it is
the point of yours that I was proving incorrect with the following
text:

Regarding Mr. Ferstler's plaintive cry for testing, both
Michael Fremer and I did take part in a series of public
amplifier tests at the 1988 AES convention. Our results
revealed statistically significant identification (to
the 95% confidence limit, if I remember correctly) but were
dismissed by skeptics on the gounds that we were just "lucky
coins."

"Lucky coins"? That seems like a pretty good description of
listening tests that can only muster 95% confidence.

Regardless of your opinion of the statistics of these test
results, Mr. Krueger, the fact that Michael Fremer and I _did_
take part in a public blind listening test of amplifiers,
regardless of the "risk to our reputations" proves your
statement above incorrect.

Rather than quibble over my typing error Atkinson, I'll say that you've
corrected me, which in some sense you have. The post was made with an
obvious error in typing.

However Fremer's letter as posted at
http://www.stereophile.com/features/113/index6.html
claims that he did hear a difference, which is a speculative claim at best.

It's pretty clear what actually happened, Atkinson. You and Fremer realized
that deprived of visual cues and obvious audible cues like improper
level-matching, hearing differences between good amps is not the trivial
thing that you've devoted most of your lives to asserting to the general
public. By limiting the number of trials attempted, you created a
questionable situation which you've tried to exploit by various means for
almost 10 years.

Clyde "Sack'Ô'****" Slick a écrit :

"Lionel" wrote in message
...

Clyde Slick a écrit :

"Lionel" wrote in message
...


Clyde Slick a écrit :


"Lionel" wrote in message
. ..



Clyde Slick a écrit :



"Lionel" wrote in message
. ..




Don't say thank you to a guy who disdains you, Dave.
You are now openly and stupidly supporting Sackman's xenophobic
propaganda. This gives us a precise idea of the filth in which you
are swimming now.



I am not fearful of foreigner's. It's just that
I don't like the arrogant, corrupt, and dishonest people in France.

You are not only a stupid xenophobe you are also a dangerous liar.
Your past posts are full of disdainful and calumnious declaration about
France and French in *general*...

In the '20s France has welcome a lot of Russian Jewish emigrants who
were fleeding the Soviets' savagery.
Their past and today testimonials totally dismiss you.

Your recent comments are just an other demonstration of your pathologic
jingoist xenophobia and are certainly the consequence of your total
lack of personality.

The weaker is the personality the stronger is the propention to the
caricatural generalizations... :-(



**** off, asshole.
You are a liar and an idiot.
I am not Xenophobic. My negative attitude
is directed only against France.

No in fact your negative attitude is directed only against *you*. You are
the only one to ignore that and this is very funny. The more you speak
the more you are ridiculous. ;-)



What are you babbling about this time?
Talk about ridiculous.

That's right you are not ridiculous, you are disgusting.


I'm not even a
Francophobe, because I'm not really scared of your ilk,
just annoyed and disgusted by them.

I understand and I share your point of view.
In fact Hitler wasn't really anti-semitic you know, he was just "annoyed"
and "disgusted" by Jewish people.
In the end he has murdered 6 millions of innocents so I'm not persuaded
of the importance of the nuance, sorry.



Chill. Don't worry, I'm not about
to round you up for a concentration camp.

Yes I agree, not you, at least not in a first time.
You are not enough intelligent and enterprising, you are a hatemonger that
true but you are mainly a *follower*.


In the meantime, work on your appreciation of nuance.

There's no nuance, no difference between you above discourse and the most
extremist propaganda.
We can easily find the same opinions in neo-nazi propaganda or on the al
qaida websites... They are using exactly the same words and same arguments
than you. Zero difference.

Do you want to make a quick survey with me ?


You are a complete idiot.
A moron.

No problem IMHO it's better than to be a seed of fanatic
racist, xenophobe and fascist like you are Sackman.

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
: "John Atkinson" wrote in message
:
: I still think it would be cool if John and some of his
: associates and Arny and some of his supporters openly
: participated in an open and public, level-matched DBT...
:
: That is way too risky to the reputations of the usual list of
: suspects, to ever happen
:
: Note that had I meant to say that it had never happened, I would have said
: that it never happened. Instead, I used words that are oriented towards a
: future event. One obvious clue that the sentence is incomplete is the
: absence of a period. I apparently got distracted

sorry, Arn, "to ever happen" strongly implies, no, actually *means* :
- has not happened AND will not happen -
Kroologique, again, eh ;-) ?

Rudy

"Lionel" wrote in message
...
Clyde "Sack'Ô'****" Slick a écrit :

"Lionel" wrote in message
...

Clyde Slick a écrit :

"Lionel" wrote in message
.. .


Clyde Slick a écrit :


"Lionel" wrote in message
.. .



Clyde Slick a écrit :



"Lionel" wrote in message
...




Don't say thank you to a guy who disdains you, Dave.
You are now openly and stupidly supporting Sackman's xenophobic
propaganda. This gives us a precise idea of the filth in which you
are swimming now.



I am not fearful of foreigner's. It's just that
I don't like the arrogant, corrupt, and dishonest people in France.

You are not only a stupid xenophobe you are also a dangerous liar.
Your past posts are full of disdainful and calumnious declaration
about France and French in *general*...

In the '20s France has welcome a lot of Russian Jewish emigrants who
were fleeding the Soviets' savagery.
Their past and today testimonials totally dismiss you.

Your recent comments are just an other demonstration of your
pathologic jingoist xenophobia and are certainly the consequence of
your total lack of personality.

The weaker is the personality the stronger is the propention to the
caricatural generalizations... :-(



**** off, asshole.
You are a liar and an idiot.
I am not Xenophobic. My negative attitude
is directed only against France.

No in fact your negative attitude is directed only against *you*. You
are the only one to ignore that and this is very funny. The more you
speak the more you are ridiculous. ;-)



What are you babbling about this time?
Talk about ridiculous.

That's right you are not ridiculous, you are disgusting.


I'm not even a
Francophobe, because I'm not really scared of your ilk,
just annoyed and disgusted by them.

I understand and I share your point of view.
In fact Hitler wasn't really anti-semitic you know, he was just
"annoyed" and "disgusted" by Jewish people.
In the end he has murdered 6 millions of innocents so I'm not persuaded
of the importance of the nuance, sorry.



Chill. Don't worry, I'm not about
to round you up for a concentration camp.

Yes I agree, not you, at least not in a first time.
You are not enough intelligent and enterprising, you are a hatemonger
that true but you are mainly a *follower*.


In the meantime, work on your appreciation of nuance.

There's no nuance, no difference between you above discourse and the most
extremist propaganda.
We can easily find the same opinions in neo-nazi propaganda or on the al
qaida websites... They are using exactly the same words and same
arguments than you. Zero difference.

Do you want to make a quick survey with me ?


You are a complete idiot.
A moron.

No problem IMHO it's better than to be a seed of fanatic racist, xenophobe
and fascist like you are Sackman.

**** off, asshole.
You are a moron and an idiot.
Try doing something productive like stealing food
out of the mouths of Iraqi children.



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Clyde Slick wrote:

snipped

Try doing something productive like stealing food
out of the mouths of Iraqi children.



Why not do it the American way: kill their families.

wrote in message
oups.com...

Clyde Slick wrote:

snipped

Try doing something productive like stealing food
out of the mouths of Iraqi children.



Why not do it the American way: kill their families.



We are not their assassinating families, nor are we there
to steal the the money that was supposed to
be going for food and medical aid for children.



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