"John Atkinson" wrote in message
om
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"S888Wheel" wrote in message

Prove that the suit is actually filed, sockpuppet Wheel.

You will soon be served with a summons.

From what court?

Good grief, Mr. Krueger. Why do you insist on filling up r.a.o.
with postings asking questions that have been answered in the past.
This has been addressed before. The appropriate court is the
one that has jurisdiction where the putative damages were suffered.
In this case, that would be California because that is where Scott
Wheeler ) resides.

I guess John Atkinson thinks that there's only one court in the entire
universe that has jurisdiction in California.

Wow, talk about filling up RAO with nonsense posts...

Lionel said:

Marc Phillips wrote:
Lionel said:


George M. Middius George M. Middius
eorge M. Middius eorge M. Middius
orge M. Middius orge M. Middius
rge M. Middius rge M. Middius
ge M. Middius ge M. Middius
e M. Middius e M. Middius
M. Middius M. Middius
. .
Middius Middius
iddius iddius
ddius ddius
dius dius
ius ius
us us
s s
us us
ius ius
dius dius
ddius ddius
iddius iddius
Middius Middius
. .
M. Middius M. Middius
e M. Middius e M. Middius
ge M. Middius ge M. Middius
rge M. Middius rge M. Middius
orge M. Middius orge M. Middius
eorge M. Middius eorge M. Middius
George M. Middius George M. Middius


Tell me again, Bob, why you think Lionel is a welcome and witty and
refreshing
presence here, you dope.

Boon


Don't be so angry Boon.
This abstract piece of art is the pictural representation of all
Middius' fears.
Do you see what I mean ? ;-)

No one sees what you mean. You are a world-class twit.

Boon

Arny said:

"Marc Phillips" wrote in message


dave said:

Bragging, I guess. Nashville *is* considered one of the more
desirable places to live in America. Heck, even Donna Summer lives
here g.

Having spent considerable time in both Nashville and Detroit, I must
say that I could easily live in Nashville. The music scene is
wonderful, the people are incredibly friendly, and the women are
among the most beautiful in the US. It's also very scenic.

By contrast, Detroit is a ********.

Much the same can be said about the City of Los Angeles, but who but
Phillips would verbally obsess over something this obvious.

You can say that about almost any city in the US. The difference is that
Detroit is famous for being a ********. I lived in Philadelphia for a year,
and Detroit still took my breath away with its ****tiness.

LA, however, is known for being the entertainment capital of the world, and
home to many of the richest people in the world.



It ain't much to look at, the weather is miserable,

Marc Phillips education about N.A. cities with miserable weather is
obviously lacking. Weigh his credibility on this point by the fact that he's
lately been claiming to live in LA.

I've always claimed to live in LA while posting here.

Now it's as if that city has anything
but miserable weather.

Uh, LA is famous for having nice weather, imbecile.


For a long-time wondered why people brag on the weather in San Diego so
much, when it's actually lacking quite a bit. The answer is that San Diego
has far better weather than LA...

Yes, it does. So, ****head, why is the weather in San Diego "lacking quite a
bit"? Not enough black ice on the roads for you?


and I haven't had an intelligent conversation yet with anyone from
Michigan.

Two possible explanations.

(1) One possible explanation is that there are way too many high school
graduates in Michigan, and Marc isn't smart enough to know it, but they are
all talking over his head.

Stupid answer.


(2) Another possible explanation is that the only people Marc ever talks to
when he's in Michigan is pimps, hoe's, bartenders, and drug-dealers from
Detroit.

Stupid answer.


(That includes the girl who once
introduced herself to me memorably by saying "I'm from ****ing
Michigan and ****.")

Evidence that supports what I just speculated as item (2).

And yet you have no idea who this girl is. As usual, you are making **** up
out of thin air, just like your sockpuppets do.


Sure, there's the Motown legacy, but that seems
to be a thing of the past, since the radio there is abysmal,
especially compared to Nashville, which has perhaps the best radio in
the country.

Guess what folks, Marc rates cities by their radio stations. How big of a
"Kick me, I'm shallow and fold easily" sign does Marc have to put on?

Stupid answer, especially when the radio here in LA has been atrocious in the
last few years. But one can find out a lot about the culture of a particular
city by listening to their radio stations. And when you have a city like
Detroit that bases its reputation on its musical heritage, you should be able
to find quality radio, like you do in Nashville.

And your stupid answer above presupposes that I only listed a single criterion
for the quality of a given city, when we all know I didn't.


Is it any surprise that Arny would bash Nashville?

Ironically, Marc's post quotes only Dave Weil who no doubt wants everybody
including Marc to know that he's not Arny.


Krooglish!

BTW, what bad thing did I say about Nashville Marc? Feel free to quote me
bashing it, if you can... FWIW, w
What I actually said about Nashville (not Marc Phillips' paranoid delusion
about what I said) was arguably neutral.

Arguably to you, since you operate under the assumption that you can argue your
way through anything. You can't, we all know it, and that's why you get picked
on all ****ing day.


We all know how
perverse his value system is after all, so take it as a compliment,
dave.

First one might do something really smart like ask me what I think about
Nashville. Cutting right to the chase what I think about Nashville just
ain't much. I hardly think of it at all!

No one smart would ask what you think about Nashville, because they know it
would be based upon lies and insanity. You know, Arny, when you tried to argue
with me about the merits of Oakland County vs. Orange County, you might have
hit bottom in terms of intelligence. I still laugh about some of the idiotic
things you desperately came up with, such as the living quality of an area
being based upon the potential for future development of agriculture, and using
per capita income instead of per capita net worth to determine how well off
residents in an area are.

Are you really going to get your ass kicked again? Wait, don't answer. You
cannot refute the points I made above with any semblance of logic or reason or
facts, and yet I know you will try. You probably got a woodie when you saw I
actually replied to your insipid post, because that's the highlight of your
day. But please don't try to argue point-by-point. It's embarrassing for me
to be seen talking to you when you do.

Boon

Langis said:

Lionel wrote:

George M. Middius George M. Middius
eorge M. Middius eorge M. Middius
orge M. Middius orge M. Middius
rge M. Middius rge M. Middius
ge M. Middius ge M. Middius
e M. Middius e M. Middius
M. Middius M. Middius
. .
Middius Middius
iddius iddius
ddius ddius
dius dius
ius ius
us us
s s
us us
ius ius
dius dius
ddius ddius
iddius iddius
Middius Middius
. .
M. Middius M. Middius
e M. Middius e M. Middius
ge M. Middius ge M. Middius
rge M. Middius rge M. Middius
orge M. Middius orge M. Middius
eorge M. Middius eorge M. Middius
George M. Middius George M. Middius

Do you work in a hotel? A big, empty hotel? ;-)

All play and no work makes Lionel an Internet geek. All play and no work makes
Lionel an Internet geek. All play and no work...

Boon

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

I seriously doubt that any reasonable court will make any judgement but to
throw your case out on the basis of its obvious flaws.

Arny's strategy appears to be "the best defense is no defense at all".




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"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"S888Wheel" wrote in message

You did it? You really filed? I'm impressed.


Yep. I did it. I gave Arny an easy and reasonable means to retract
his libelous posts. He declined and chose to libel me a second time.
Now he has to face a real lawsuit in a ral court.

Where does one find a "ral court" sockpuppet Wheel?


Arny is now solidifying a better defensive strategy,
It is based upon a missing "e".




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Sockpuppet Yustabe said:

I seriously doubt that any reasonable court will make any judgement but to
throw your case out on the basis of its obvious flaws.

Arny's strategy appears to be "the best defense is no defense at all".

Could be he's hoping to a 'Borgie Mind-Trick on the judge.

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
Makes me want to run right out and become an atheist so I can say things
like this...

;-)



No need, you're doing just fine as a 'Christian'.




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Marc Phillips wrote:
Lionel said:


Marc Phillips wrote:

Lionel said:



George M. Middius George M. Middius
eorge M. Middius eorge M. Middius
orge M. Middius orge M. Middius
rge M. Middius rge M. Middius
ge M. Middius ge M. Middius
e M. Middius e M. Middius
M. Middius M. Middius
. .
Middius Middius
iddius iddius
ddius ddius
dius dius
ius ius
us us
s s
us us
ius ius
dius dius
ddius ddius
iddius iddius
Middius Middius
. .
M. Middius M. Middius
e M. Middius e M. Middius
ge M. Middius ge M. Middius
rge M. Middius rge M. Middius
orge M. Middius orge M. Middius
eorge M. Middius eorge M. Middius
George M. Middius George M. Middius


Tell me again, Bob, why you think Lionel is a welcome and witty and

refreshing

presence here, you dope.

Boon



Don't be so angry Boon.
This abstract piece of art is the pictural representation of all
Middius' fears.
Do you see what I mean ? ;-)


No one sees what you mean. You are a world-class twit.

Boon


;-)

Oh. What is the address. I don't drink much but if it's good
quality I could be persuaded to order a glass with dinner. :^)

Don't hold your breath for an answer to this question. Weil
guards the ID of his alleged employer pretty tightly. It's
probably within driving distance of Nashville, but after that
you're on your own and things will probably stay that way
forever.

I was only being facetious, Arny.

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message
...

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

I seriously doubt that any reasonable court will make any judgement but
to
throw your case out on the basis of its obvious flaws.

Arny's strategy appears to be "the best defense is no defense at all".

You're externalizing again. Your best responses to my posts are the ones
that you never post. Otherwise, you just dig yourself a deeper hole. Like
Weil you should give up while you're only this far behind.

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message
...

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

I seriously doubt that any reasonable court will make any judgement
but
to
throw your case out on the basis of its obvious flaws.

Arny's strategy appears to be "the best defense is no defense at all".

You're externalizing again. Your best responses to my posts are the ones
that you never post. Otherwise, you just dig yourself a deeper hole. Like
Weil you should give up while you're only this far behind.


If I was wrong, please explain by accurately describing your defensive
strategy against Wheeler's suit.

I was only going by what you earlier said, that you need not have a defense
because you are confidant the judge will throw it out without
your having to present a defense.




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"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message
...

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message
...

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

I seriously doubt that any reasonable court will make any judgement
but
to
throw your case out on the basis of its obvious flaws.

Arny's strategy appears to be "the best defense is no defense at all".

You're externalizing again. Your best responses to my posts are the ones
that you never post. Otherwise, you just dig yourself a deeper hole.
Like
Weil you should give up while you're only this far behind.

If I was wrong, please explain by accurately describing your defensive
strategy against Wheeler's suit.

When you admit you're wrong and sockpuppet Wheel gets his just deserts, I'll
consider it.

I was only going by what you earlier said, that you need not have a
defense
because you are confidant the judge will throw it out without
your having to present a defense.

First things first.

Apparently non-believers go to hell, so you would
think He (She) would making Himself (Herself)
known...

Correct. He (being omnipotent) could decide to use those who believe to
spread the message, too. He could even say something like: "Go therefore
and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father
and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I
have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age."

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message
...

If I was wrong, please explain by accurately describing your defensive
strategy against Wheeler's suit.

When you admit you're wrong and sockpuppet Wheel gets his just deserts,
I'll
consider it.


Quit spinning and address the issue. What is your defense?
I have given you a chance to correct any error I may have made
and you have not responded.

I was only going by what you earlier said, that you need not have a
defense
because you are confidant the judge will throw it out without
your having to present a defense.

First things first.


Good move! I hope you realize that if you lose the first
battle by default, the war is over.




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"Langis" wrote in message
...
"Robert L. Bass" wrote:

Apparently non-believers go to hell, so you would think He (She) would
making Himself (Herself) known, rather than keeping us all in suspense
by dancing in the shadows. To put it another way, it's bollox.


I asked specific questions about the status of deceased non-believers, and
he still has not answered the questions.




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Sockpuppet Yustabe said:

I asked specific questions about the status of deceased non-believers, and
he still has not answered the questions.

You'd think he'd have some "facts" about that too.

"George M. Middius" wrote in message
...


Sockpuppet Yustabe said:

I asked specific questions about the status of deceased non-believers,
and
he still has not answered the questions.

You'd think he'd have some "facts" about that too.



Maybe he's been there.




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Robert, please do many of us (quite possibly the majority) a favor and
shut up or take your discussion elsewhere. Stop beating people over the
head with your jesus stuff. Just turn the other cheek and walk away.



Robert L. Bass wrote:
Apparently non-believers go to hell, so you would
think He (She) would making Himself (Herself)
known...


Correct. He (being omnipotent) could decide to use those who believe to
spread the message, too. He could even say something like: "Go therefore
and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father
and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I
have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age."

I asked specific questions about the status of
deceased non-believers, and he still has not
answered the questions.

Sorry, I must have overlooked that post. Deceased non-believers who never
did anything wrong in their lives are in heaven. Others may be located
elsewhere.

"Robert L. Bass" wrote in message
...
I asked specific questions about the status of
deceased non-believers, and he still has not
answered the questions.

Sorry, I must have overlooked that post. Deceased non-believers who never
did anything wrong in their lives are in heaven. Others may be located
elsewhere.



Therefore, murderers who later accept Jesus as Savior
go to heaven, while nonbeleivers who littered the highways
burn in hell?




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Therefore, murderers who later accept Jesus as Savior
go to heaven, while nonbeleivers who littered the highways
burn in hell?

There's no mention of littering that I have found in Scripture. There is
mention of repentance though.

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message
...

If I was wrong, please explain by accurately describing your
defensive strategy against Wheeler's suit.

When you admit you're wrong and sockpuppet Wheel gets his just
deserts,
I'll
consider it.


Quit spinning and address the issue. What is your defense?
I have given you a chance to correct any error I may have made
and you have not responded.

I was only going by what you earlier said, that you need not have a
defense
because you are confidant the judge will throw it out without
your having to present a defense.

First things first.


Good move! I hope you realize that if you lose the first
battle by default, the war is over.


Doohhhhhhhhhhhhhh...........

"Robert L. Bass" wrote in message

Therefore, murderers who later accept Jesus as Savior
go to heaven, while nonbeleivers who littered the highways
burn in hell?

There's no mention of littering that I have found in Scripture.
There is mention of repentance though.

Nice answer, especially given that you're talking to a guy who desperately
wants to avoid taking *any* responsibility for his actions.

Nice answer, especially given that you're talking to a guy
who desperately wants to avoid taking *any* responsibility
for his actions.

I've found that to be a fairly common problem. Listen to the argument over
almost any traffic accident. Everyone insists it was the other guy's fault.
Sit in a court room some day as I recently did (as a witness) in a DUI case.
Every defendant has a story to tell that explains his actions or denies them
entirely. Of course, some are truly innocent -- but all?!?

It's the same story in USENET flame wars. Everyone insists that the whole
thing is the other guy's fault. I disagree with something you or Dave says
so I make a snide comment. You take offense and crack right back. I don't
like your reply and the war is on. Sometimes the resulting flame fest lasts
for years, effectively destroying a newsgroup.

Imagine what would happen if everyone just said, "Look, I don't agree with
your ideas but I was wrong to call you a [fill in the blank]. I apologize
for my part of the problem." Those two simple words, "I'm sorry," seem to
be the hardest things for any of us (myself included) to say. Why is that?

No flame here, Arny. I agree with a lot of what you say about audio and I
suspect you're a likeable guy in person. I disagree with you about some of
the personal taunts -- not that they're unprovoked but that they're
counter-productive. I disagree with the others who flame you for the same
reasons. If you guys can ever decide to make peace (hint: requires
consumption of a significant portion of crow) it will be a good thing. In
the meantime I refuse to join the war.

"Robert L. Bass" wrote in message


Nice answer, especially given that you're talking to a guy
who desperately wants to avoid taking *any* responsibility
for his actions.

I've found that to be a fairly common problem. Listen to the
argument over almost any traffic accident. Everyone insists it was
the other guy's fault. Sit in a court room some day as I recently did
(as a witness) in a DUI case. Every defendant has a story to tell
that explains his actions or denies them entirely. Of course, some
are truly innocent -- but all?!?

In RAO this argument is kinda flipped around. For years a number of people
have repeatedly claimed that I'm personally responsible for *everything*
that is wrong with RAO.

It's the same story in USENET flame wars. Everyone insists that the
whole thing is the other guy's fault.

I've already offered to share some blame, but that's not good enough for all
of the RAO trolls. They've said in so many words that they aren't going to
be happy until I not only abandon RAO, but also commit suicide right away.
Any number of specific means of suicide have been suggested any number of
times.

I disagree with something you
or Dave says so I make a snide comment.

Well, there are several forms of suicide comment, of course.

You take offense and crack right back.

Only when this gets repeated enough to irritate me.

I don't like your reply and the war is on. Sometimes
the resulting flame fest lasts for years, effectively destroying a
newsgroup.

Welcome to RAO!

Imagine what would happen if everyone just said, "Look, I don't agree
with your ideas but I was wrong to call you a [fill in the blank]. I
apologize for my part of the problem."

That's about as unlikely as things get on Usenet.

Those two simple words, "I'm
sorry," seem to be the hardest things for any of us (myself included)
to say. Why is that?

That's pretty well known to most of us I think.

No flame here, Arny. I agree with a lot of what you say about audio
and I suspect you're a likeable guy in person. I disagree with you
about some of the personal taunts -- not that they're unprovoked but
that they're counter-productive.

Sure its counter productive, that's the whole point. The history of RAO is
that maybe 5-6 years ago it was a wild and wooly place, but there were a
fair number of intelligent discussions of audio. At some point certain
people became dissatisfied with the direction things were going and decided
to do everything they could to force certain people away. Frankly I'm just
about the only person on their "hit list" that still stops by.

I disagree with the others who
flame you for the same reasons. If you guys can ever decide to make
peace (hint: requires consumption of a significant portion of crow)
it will be a good thing. In the meantime I refuse to join the war.

I think that staying clear of RAO is a good thing to do, particularly for
people who aren't yet involved in any of its long term disputes.

Arny Krueger wrote:

I've already offered to share some blame, but that's not good enough for all
of the RAO trolls. They've said in so many words that they aren't going to
be happy until I not only abandon RAO, but also commit suicide right away.
Any number of specific means of suicide have been suggested any number of
times.

So, why do you persist in posting to RAO? Everyone else has abandoned it.
It's all flames. There's nothing coherent going on over there. All that
posting there has ever bought you (or anyone else) is grief. This being said,
I don't understand why you not only persist in posting there but continuing
to crosspost junk there into other audio groups.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message


Arny Krueger wrote:

I've already offered to share some blame, but that's not good enough
for all of the RAO trolls. They've said in so many words that they
aren't going to be happy until I not only abandon RAO, but also
commit suicide right away. Any number of specific means of suicide
have been suggested any number of times.

So, why do you persist in posting to RAO?

A fair question.

Some newbies stumble into it. I often try to help them find more productive
places when they become frustrated with it.

Everyone else has abandoned it.

Pretty much. I am among the few remaining who post there, and are interested
in audio.

It's all flames.

Some exceptions.

There's nothing coherent going on over there.

Precious little, yes.

All that posting there has ever bought you (or anyone
else) is grief.

Pretty close to the way things have been for the last few years. I guess I'm
too sentimental about the days when a lot of audio was discussed there.

This being said, I don't understand why you not only
persist in posting there but continuing to crosspost junk there into
other audio groups.

I try to seal off the crossposts. It's dirty work but someone probably has
to do it. I've done that to this particular thread any number of times, but
it keeps growing so many branches. After this post...

"Langis" wrote in message


"Arny Krueger" wrote:

I think that staying clear of RAO is a good thing to do

Practice what you preach.

Perhaps in due time...

I've found that to be a fairly common problem. Listen to the
argument over almost any traffic accident. Everyone insists it was
the other guy's fault. Sit in a court room some day as I recently did
(as a witness) in a DUI case. Every defendant has a story to tell
that explains his actions or denies them entirely. Of course, some
are truly innocent -- but all?!?

In RAO this argument is kinda flipped around. For years a number of people
have repeatedly claimed that I'm personally responsible for *everything*
that is wrong with RAO.

That's SOP with folks who like to carry flame wars. Fill the forum with
abuse and then blame the object of said abuse for what they've posted.
Fortunately, almost any visitor with a little common sense can see what's
happening right away.

It's the same story in USENET flame wars. Everyone insists
that the whole thing is the other guy's fault.

I've already offered to share some blame, but that's not good
enough for all of the RAO trolls....

If that is the case I suggest you simply filter them. I haven't seen a post
from Middius since I kill-filed him. Once in a while I see a post where
someone quotes and replies to him. Unless the post is of particular
interest I hit [f5] and it's gone in a flash.

They've said in so many words that they aren't going to
be happy until I not only abandon RAO, but also commit
suicide right away.

People who post that sort of trash get their jollies from watching you
respond. If you filter them most get really bored with the thing after a
while. Only the truly insane carry on a vendetta long after the object of
their vitriol stops responding. After a while their actions start to annoy
so many people that they become the outcasts.

Any number of specific means of suicide have been suggested
any number of times.

None of which means squat to you unless you let it. Who are these people
that you should even care what they say, let alone what they think? They're
obviously not a part of your real life or they would be more circumspect
about what they say.

I disagree with something you
or Dave says so I make a snide comment.

Well, there are several forms of suicide comment, of course.

Did you misread the above? I said "snide" not suicide. Ignore dummies and
concentrate on replying to serious queries. Life's too much fun to waste it
worrying about what some USENET troll suggests.

You take offense and crack right back.

Only when this gets repeated enough to irritate me.

If you filter them you won't see it. Then they're just shouting at the
wall. :^)

I don't like your reply and the war is on. Sometimes
the resulting flame fest lasts for years, effectively destroying a
newsgroup.

Welcome to RAO!

This is common to many newsgroups. There are lots of people who can't find
a vent for their anger and frustration in real life so they use the talk
tough where they feel safe in the relative anonymity of the Internet. It's
analogous to road rage. The difference is some character on a newsgroup
isn't driving a 2-tom Buick toward you. He's just plining away on a
keyboard in his bedroom.

Imagine what would happen if everyone just said, "Look, I don't agree
with your ideas but I was wrong to call you a [fill in the blank]. I
apologize for my part of the problem."

That's about as unlikely as things get on Usenet.

Sad, isn't it?

Those two simple words, "I'm
sorry," seem to be the hardest things for any of us (myself included)
to say. Why is that?

That's pretty well known to most of us I think.

Yup, but sometimes it bears repeating.

No flame here, Arny. I agree with a lot of what you say about audio
and I suspect you're a likeable guy in person. I disagree with you
about some of the personal taunts -- not that they're unprovoked but
that they're counter-productive.

Sure its counter productive, that's the whole point. The history
of RAO is that maybe 5-6 years ago it was a wild and wooly
place, but there were a fair number of intelligent discussions of
audio. At some point certain people became dissatisfied with
the direction things were going and decided to do everything
they could to force certain people away. Frankly I'm just
about the only person on their "hit list" that still stops by.

I know what you mean. The oly question for you is are you going to continue
to allow them to get to you or will you just filter them and enjoy chatting
with people who actually want to discuss audio?

I disagree with the others who
flame you for the same reasons. If you guys can ever decide to make
peace (hint: requires consumption of a significant portion of crow)
it will be a good thing. In the meantime I refuse to join the war.

I think that staying clear of RAO is a good thing to do, particularly
for people who aren't yet involved in any of its long term disputes.

I can go there, spot who is serious and who is just picking fights in one or
two minutes and set my filters one minute later. After that the newsgroup
is a pleasant, useful (though much quieter) place.

Robert L. Bass said:

It's the same story in USENET flame wars. Everyone insists that the whole
thing is the other guy's fault.

You're the one who's too stupid to understand the difference between
facts and beliefs.

"Robert L. Bass" wrote in message

I've found that to be a fairly common problem. Listen to the
argument over almost any traffic accident. Everyone insists it was
the other guy's fault. Sit in a court room some day as I recently
did (as a witness) in a DUI case. Every defendant has a story to
tell that explains his actions or denies them entirely. Of course,
some are truly innocent -- but all?!?

In RAO this argument is kinda flipped around. For years a number of
people have repeatedly claimed that I'm personally responsible for
*everything* that is wrong with RAO.

That's SOP with folks who like to carry flame wars. Fill the forum
with abuse and then blame the object of said abuse for what they've
posted.

Right.

Fortunately, almost any visitor with a little common sense
can see what's happening right away.

It's the same story in USENET flame wars. Everyone insists
that the whole thing is the other guy's fault.

I've already offered to share some blame, but that's not good
enough for all of the RAO trolls....

If that is the case I suggest you simply filter them. I haven't seen
a post from Middius since I kill-filed him. Once in a while I see a
post where someone quotes and replies to him. Unless the post is of
particular interest I hit [f5] and it's gone in a flash.

You haven't missed much.

They've said in so many words that they aren't going to
be happy until I not only abandon RAO, but also commit
suicide right away.

People who post that sort of trash get their jollies from watching you
respond. If you filter them most get really bored with the thing
after a while.

The RAO trolls are IME quite a bit more persistent than that.

Only the truly insane carry on a vendetta long after
the object of their vitriol stops responding.

Good point. I guess that means we have some truly insane people around here.

After a while their
actions start to annoy so many people that they become the outcasts.

RAO is arguably an extraordinary collection of outcasts.

Any number of specific means of suicide have been suggested
any number of times.

None of which means squat to you unless you let it. Who are these
people that you should even care what they say, let alone what they
think? They're obviously not a part of your real life or they would
be more circumspect about what they say.

Good point.

I disagree with something you
or Dave says so I make a snide comment.

Well, there are several forms of suicide comment, of course.

Did you misread the above? I said "snide" not suicide. Ignore
dummies and concentrate on replying to serious queries. Life's too
much fun to waste it worrying about what some USENET troll suggests.

Good point.

You take offense and crack right back.

Only when this gets repeated enough to irritate me.

If you filter them you won't see it. Then they're just shouting at
the wall. :^)

To show the level of insanity around here, a group of us banded together and
ignored Singh, Middius and a few others for well over a year. No change in
their behavior.

I don't like your reply and the war is on. Sometimes
the resulting flame fest lasts for years, effectively destroying a
newsgroup.

Welcome to RAO!

This is common to many newsgroups.

I've never seen it anyplace else in the audio groups on RAO.

There are lots of people who
can't find a vent for their anger and frustration in real life so
they use the talk tough where they feel safe in the relative
anonymity of the Internet. It's analogous to road rage. The
difference is some character on a newsgroup isn't driving a 2-tom
Buick toward you. He's just plining away on a keyboard in his
bedroom.

Right.

Imagine what would happen if everyone just said, "Look, I don't
agree with your ideas but I was wrong to call you a [fill in the
blank]. I apologize for my part of the problem."

That's about as unlikely as things get on Usenet.

Sad, isn't it?

Those two simple words, "I'm
sorry," seem to be the hardest things for any of us (myself
included) to say. Why is that?

That's pretty well known to most of us I think.

Yup, but sometimes it bears repeating.

No flame here, Arny. I agree with a lot of what you say about audio
and I suspect you're a likeable guy in person. I disagree with you
about some of the personal taunts -- not that they're unprovoked but
that they're counter-productive.

Sure its counter productive, that's the whole point. The history
of RAO is that maybe 5-6 years ago it was a wild and wooly
place, but there were a fair number of intelligent discussions of
audio. At some point certain people became dissatisfied with
the direction things were going and decided to do everything
they could to force certain people away. Frankly I'm just
about the only person on their "hit list" that still stops by.

I know what you mean. The only question for you is are you going to
continue to allow them to get to you or will you just filter them and
enjoy chatting with people who actually want to discuss audio?

Filtering is proven not to work, as I described above.

I disagree with the others who
flame you for the same reasons. If you guys can ever decide to make
peace (hint: requires consumption of a significant portion of crow)
it will be a good thing. In the meantime I refuse to join the war.

I think that staying clear of RAO is a good thing to do, particularly
for people who aren't yet involved in any of its long term disputes.

I can go there, spot who is serious and who is just picking fights in
one or two minutes and set my filters one minute later. After that
the newsgroup is a pleasant, useful (though much quieter) place.

For me the solution is to simply do most of my reading and posting on the
Usenet groups that are not inhabited with so many crazies as RAO.

The RAO trolls are IME quite a bit more persistent than that.

So what? If you filter them they can persist until Jesus returns and it
won't affect you at all.

Only the truly insane carry on a vendetta long after
the object of their vitriol stops responding.

Good point. I guess that means we have some truly insane
people around here.

That might include us too, according to some folks. :^)

After a while their actions start to annoy so many
people that they become the outcasts.

RAO is arguably an extraordinary collection of outcasts.

From what little I've seen it's no worse than many other unbridled ALT and
REC newsgroups. It makes no difference to me.

If you filter them you won't see it. Then they're just shouting at
the wall. :^)

To show the level of insanity around here, a group of us banded
together and ignored Singh, Middius and a few others for well
over a year. No change in their behavior.

Filters are not meant to change the offendors' behavior. Their puropose is
to enhance your enjoyment of USENET. I couldn't care less if these guys
call me every name in the book, suggest I perform physically impossible acts
of contortionism and accuse my ancestors of beastiality. Why should it
matter to you if someone you believe is insane acts crazy?

I've never seen it anyplace else in the audio groups on RAO.

Browse around a bit. This sort of thing is endemic to USENET. Get over it.
You've got much better things to do than worry about what someone you don't
like thinks.

Filtering is proven not to work, as I described above.

That depends on what you are trying to accomplish. If you expect to change
someone else's behavior, you're right. It won't work. If you want to
improve your own experience in USENET it works like a charm. One two
keystrokes and poof! They're gone.

On Mon, 6 Oct 2003 18:37:06 -0400, "Robert L. Bass"
wrote:

I think that staying clear of RAO is a good thing to do, particularly
for people who aren't yet involved in any of its long term disputes.

I can go there, spot who is serious and who is just picking fights in one or
two minutes and set my filters one minute later. After that the newsgroup
is a pleasant, useful (though much quieter) place.

Why are you having a dialog with Arnold then?

On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 01:13:35 -0400, "Robert L. Bass"
wrote:

Oh absolutely! I mean comeon guys, who CARES
what Denon did in the 1970s!!!! Does that all matter,
especially considering my original post asked for
opinions over one Denon model vs a Yamaha one?

Welcome to USENET. :^)

Sorry to jump in here; nothing really to add, but just wanted to say I
was a part of the longest freakin' thread in usenet history! But then
I just went back and read some of the posts; and I thought I was
off-topic!