In article ,
"Schizoid Man" wrote:

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message

Clyde Slick wrote:

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message

Here's a working link:

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/hifi200...onkrueger.html

Eddies link worked last night. I got the page form that link and
read
it last night.

Prove it.

It did, actually.

Worked for me too. Doesn't work now.

Stephen

****-for-Brains tries to pull a shred of victory from a haystack of
humiliation and defeat.

The picture of me in question

It's not in question. You look more like a lizard than usual.

No response from Krooger. Admission of lizardness noted.

major sucessful attack on your credibility, Middius.

snicker

Shall we compare credibility, O ****ful One? When the video comes online,
we can see if your bite is as bad as your bark. How many times did you
accuse JA of "fraud" to his face? Zero, you say?

snicker

In , Schizoid Man wrote :


"Lionel" wrote in message

Apart Middius and his delusion of grandeur, this meeting is a funny
setback for all the RAO's moronic spectators who were waiting for a
wrestling fight.

You hit the nail on the head, Lionel.

I'm glad but not surprised that you agree with that.

On Sun, 1 May 2005 05:49:41 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

Schizoid Man wrote:
"John Atkinson" wrote in message

EddieM wrote:

I read that your powerpoint presentation got bungled up, what
was that all about?

That was my fault. To save Mr. Krueger the inconvenience of having
to bring a PC, I had arranged to use one of my company's laptops.
Unfortunately, the Windows password had been changed, I had not
been given the new one, and my division's IT rep was on vacation.
Wes Phillips offered his iBook for Arny to use, but we did not have
a VGA adaptor for that computer's video output. I had the
appropriate
DVI-VGA adaptor for my PowerBook, but I was already using that
computer to record the debate.

Care to upload the PowerPoint, Arny?

This is a text-only newsgroup. I'll see if I can work something out.

It's not like you have a website or anything...

On Sun, 01 May 2005 11:26:27 GMT, Richard
wrote:

"Clyde Slick" wrote:



Eddies link worked last night. I got the page form that link and read it
last night


Not for me! I got the same error message when trying to access it
today as then:

The page cannot be found
The page you are looking for might have been removed, had its name
changed, or is temporarily unavailable.

It was broken then and remains broken but the one Arny Krueger posted
works.

It worked for me as well, as it provided the quote that I used in my
post regarding the debate yesterday. It was the only link that I had
available to me.

"Richard" wrote

I got the message
"The page you are looking for had its name changed."
It was broken then and remains broken.


But it wasn't broken when it was first posted - was it, Richard?
You have a thing for Arny Krueger?

"Arny Krueger" wrote

.....There's a reason why almost every SET demo I heard
was based on a recording of a solo or a very small group......

The fact that so many worship at this phoney altar of Luddite SET
technology is a testimonial to the fact that many high enders
apparently don't really listen to gear like us DBT folks do.

"listen to gear" ???

If they like that kind of music played on that kind of gear, what's
the harm? Maybe that kind of distortion has some kind of
calming psychological effect.


A companion from the BAS...

Boston Audio Society? Malesweski?


Anyway, thanks for the story. We look forward to the video.

George M. Middius wrote:
****-for-Brains tries to pull a shred of victory from a haystack of
humiliation and defeat.

The picture of me in question

It's not in question. You look more like a lizard than usual.

No response from Krooger. Admission of lizardness noted.

major sucessful attack on your credibility, Middius.

snicker

Shall we compare credibility, O ****ful One? When the video comes
online,
we can see if your bite is as bad as your bark. How many times did
you
accuse JA of "fraud" to his face? Zero, you say?

snicker


Yeah, "George", let's compare Arny's credibility to yours. Arny went to
NYC and had a public face-to-face with Atkinson. Will you have a public
face-to-face with Arny Krueger?
Will you call him "****ful One", "Turdborg", "Mr.
****","****-for-brains", "pedophile", etc., to his face?

snicker

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
George M. Middius wrote:
The Big **** stinks up the joint.

****borg returns to his old pooping grounds.

The picture of me in question

It's not in question. You look more like a lizard than usual.

So Middius, how many times did you say here that there was no way
that I was going to do this debate?

I'm surprised you showed up,

Under states the fact that my appearance is a major sucessful attack
on your credibility, Middius.



Who is Under?



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The Little **** said:

Will you call me "****ful One", "Turdborg", "Mr.
****","****-for-brains", "pedophile", etc., to my face?

Absolutely. Just tell me where and when to find you.

Clyde Slick said:

Under states

Who is Under?

That might be Arnii's code name for Thing. As in, under Arnii's pooper.

wrote

Yeah, "George", let's compare Arny's credibility to yours. Arny went to
NYC and had a public face-to-face with Atkinson. Will you have a public
face-to-face with Arny Krueger?


How about you, tubby? Will you back up your RAO bravado in a
face-to-face? Come to think of it, your RAO bravado has really been
toned down lately? Do we have Lisa to thank? Or have you joined
an Ozark church group?

Why so little from you? Are you on the $9.95 AOL plan now?

What's your email address, babe?

In , dave weil wrote :

On Sun, 01 May 2005 11:26:27 GMT, Richard
wrote:

"Clyde Slick" wrote:



Eddies link worked last night. I got the page form that link and read it
last night


Not for me! I got the same error message when trying to access it
today as then:

The page cannot be found
The page you are looking for might have been removed, had its name
changed, or is temporarily unavailable.

It was broken then and remains broken but the one Arny Krueger posted
works.

It worked for me as well, as it provided the quote that I used in my
post regarding the debate yesterday. It was the only link that I had
available to me.

It was working for me too !!!
After it didn't work anymore !!!
Now I don't know if it still not working !!!

:-D

In . com,
wrote :

Yeah, "George", let's compare Arny's credibility to yours. Arny went to
NYC and had a public face-to-face with Atkinson. Will you have a public
face-to-face with Arny Krueger?
Will you call him "****ful One", "Turdborg", "Mr.
****","****-for-brains", "pedophile", etc., to his face?

Are you waiting for an answer ? ;-)

"Arny Krueger" said:

snip

Stuff happens.


Well, kudos anyway for showing up.
Too bad about the PP presentation.
Any chance that it'll become available somewhere?

--

"Audio as a serious hobby is going down the tubes."
- Howard Ferstler, 25/4/2005

"8hz" dave wrote :


Care to upload the PowerPoint, Arny?

This is a text-only newsgroup. I'll see if I can work something out.

It's not like you have a website or anything...

This was clearly suggested by : "I'll see if I can work something out", eh
idiot ?

(Seems that our Dave "Fat Tick" Weil is still desperately looking for
attention from Arnold Krueger).

;-)

Lionel wrote:
In . com,
wrote :

Yeah, "George", let's compare Arny's credibility to yours. Arny
went to
NYC and had a public face-to-face with Atkinson. Will you have a
public
face-to-face with Arny Krueger?
Will you call him "****ful One", "Turdborg", "Mr.
****","****-for-brains", "pedophile", etc., to his face?

Are you waiting for an answer ? ;-)


"George" already answered....by changing the subject. What a surprise!
;-)

On Sun, 01 May 2005 16:28:58 +0200, Lionel
wrote:

"8hz" dave wrote :


Care to upload the PowerPoint, Arny?

This is a text-only newsgroup. I'll see if I can work something out.

It's not like you have a website or anything...

This was clearly suggested by : "I'll see if I can work something out", eh
idiot ?

Awww, poor Lionel, back to the name-calling. Frankly, the suggestion
is one of uncertainty.

(Seems that our Dave "Fat Tick" Weil is still desperately looking for
attention from Arnold Krueger).

Oh, I know that Arnold is too scared of me to respond to me directly.
He just waits on your knee-jerk (emphasis on the final part of that)
response to allow him to get in a flaccid response to my points.

Attention from Arnold isn't even on the radar. As far as I'm
concerned, his fear is enough.

In article , says...


Schizoid Man wrote:
"John Atkinson" wrote in message

EddieM wrote:

I read that your powerpoint presentation got bungled up, what
was that all about?

That was my fault. To save Mr. Krueger the inconvenience of having
to bring a PC, I had arranged to use one of my company's laptops.
Unfortunately, the Windows password had been changed, I had not
been given the new one, and my division's IT rep was on vacation.
Wes Phillips offered his iBook for Arny to use, but we did not have
a VGA adaptor for that computer's video output. I had the
appropriate
DVI-VGA adaptor for my PowerBook, but I was already using that
computer to record the debate.

Care to upload the PowerPoint, Arny?

This is a text-only newsgroup. I'll see if I can work something out.

The (generally) standard way to do this is to convert it to PDF and post
it on some web site somewhere. There are free PDF converters if you need
one - just search for them. Good luck.

whosbest54
--
The flamewars are over...if you want it.

Unofficial rec.audio.opinion Usenet Group Brief User Guide:
http://members.aol.com/whosbest54/

Unofficial rec.music.beatles Usenet Group Brief User Guide:
http://members.aol.com/whosbest54/rmb.html

In , dave weil wrote :

On Sun, 01 May 2005 16:28:58 +0200, Lionel
wrote:

"8hz" dave wrote :


Care to upload the PowerPoint, Arny?

This is a text-only newsgroup. I'll see if I can work something out.

It's not like you have a website or anything...

This was clearly suggested by : "I'll see if I can work something out", eh
idiot ?

Awww, poor Lionel, back to the name-calling.

When the qualificative applies to you it isn't name-calling... only
desperate honesty. ;-)

Frankly, the suggestion
is one of uncertainty.

Thank you for confirming that *idiot* was an euphemism only.

(Seems that our Dave "Fat Tick" Weil is still desperately looking for
attention from Arnold Krueger).

Oh, I know that Arnold is too scared of me to respond to me directly.

Do you remember what you have written recently about "the dullest knives" ?

:-D

In article ,
says...


Here's a working link:

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/hifi200...onkrueger.html

This is all I've seen of the debate other than the posts to this
thread. If there will be audio or video posted to this site, that
would be nice.

John, I suggest you correct the spelling of Arny's first name in the
text. Obviously the name tag in the photo can't be changed, so I
suggest you crop the photo to leave it out and add captions to the
pics.

My views on the announced topic of the debate have been posted to my
web page for years and are generally in line with Arny's. Those views
aren't modified in any way by what I've read in this thread or on the
above web page.

Nor are my views changed in any way by the way Arny and a number of
other posters choose to behave at times in this newsgroup. For
example, Arny recently replied to a post of mine pointing out that he's
a major contributor to this newsgroup despite his distain for the group
because he likes to annoy other posters.

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/.../3985e2253d970
b59?dmode=source&hl=en

or

http://tinyurl.com/7eysu

John, your story about what you did with your amps in your 20's was
interesting, but your decision making wasn't based on any scientific
method, but on your opinion/feelings. Not that there's anything wrong
with that, if that's what you want to do and it makes you happy. I
choose to rely on more scientific methods to decern _real_ differences
in equipment. And, as I say on my web page, often those differences
aren't important, even if they exist.

whosbest54
--
The flamewars are over...if you want it.

Unofficial rec.audio.opinion Usenet Group Brief User Guide:
http://members.aol.com/whosbest54/

Unofficial rec.music.beatles Usenet Group Brief User Guide:
http://members.aol.com/whosbest54/rmb.html

George "Betty Boop" Middius wrote:

No response from Krooger. Admission of lizardness noted.


Since Jim Morrison it's not an insult anymore...


major sucessful attack on your credibility, Middius.

snicker

Shall we compare credibility, O ****ful One? When the video comes online,
we can see if your bite is as bad as your bark. How many times did you
accuse JA of "fraud" to his face? Zero, you say?

Why to accuse JA to be a "fraud", eh George ?
...When the debate has proven that it's true !

;-)




----------
Sent via SPRACI - http://www.spraci.com/ - Parties,Raves,Clubs,Festivals

----------
Sent via SPRACI - http://www.spraci.com/ - Parties,Raves,Clubs,Festivals

In , whosbest54 wrote :

John, your story about what you did with your amps in your 20's was
interesting, but your decision making wasn't based on any scientific
method, but on your opinion/feelings.

How to be a hero without few magic legend ?

;-)

"Richard" wrote in message
...

Since I do not know Arny,

You are better off that way.



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"Lionel" wrote in message
...
In , whosbest54 wrote :

John, your story about what you did with your amps in your 20's was
interesting, but your decision making wasn't based on any scientific
method, but on your opinion/feelings.

How to be a hero without few magic legend ?

;-)

Maybe you can relate a poignant tale from the sewers.



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"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
EddieM wrote:
Arny Krueger wrote

EddieM wrote:

Victor Martell wrote

Could you be so kind as to post a blow by blow of the
proceedings?

Eddie can't get *anything* right, even the simplist thing.

It worked last night.

So you say.

Here's a working link:

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/hifi200...onkrueger.html

The picture of me in question was no doubt taken during Harry
Lavo's
108 minute, more or less, marathon

declaration-of-his-beliefs-about-audio-life-God-and-the-meaning-of-soy
-sauce, which he tried to pass off as a question. Why Atkinson
didn't
stop him I know not. Harry is an even bigger boor and bore in
person
than he is on RAHE. ;-(

On second thought, maybe Atkinson needed the comic relief that Harry's
blather provided. Harry kept me from making a couple of critical
points, and Atkinson needed any help he could get.

I read that your powerpoint presentation got bungled up, what
was that all about?

Atkinson promised me a working computer and projector. He was a
standard video interconnect cable short of a working set. I manage a
bunch of video projectors at my church - that exact cable accompanies
every projector that needs it and I have a spare on hand.

As improvrished as the show was for presentation technology - someone
probably stole the cable.

Atkinson was a no-show with the promised presentation technology. He
seemed to leave everything to the last minute. He apologized but he
screwed up because he did not have his act together.

Stuff happens.

The presentation infrastructure failure was not a major bump in my
road. It was not unexpected. I already had working plan "B" ready to
execute. I executed it and moved on.

My plan "B" was to install the Powerpoint Viewer on the PC in the
press room and run it off so I still had something to speak from. I
knew I was in the back woods of presentation technology when I saw
that neither Powerpoint nor anything like it was already on that
computer. But, I was prepared, I brought my own copy of Powerpoint on
my USB flash drive. I consider PowerPoint and Word to be part of the
minimal configuration of a business computer.

I don't blame Atkinson - the whole show was a major disappointment to
me, based on exactly what failed him, on the grounds of presentation
technology. So, the gross failure of Atkinson's presentation
technology was just a reflection of the backwards context he was
working in.

Back on the topic of audio, I heard a lot of really bad-sounding crap
masquerading as audio gear. For example the Bosendorfer speakers were
really horrid, but nobody seems to have the guts to say so, right out.

Also, it's really pathetic to see so many people trying to wring
something new out of a 6 1/2 woofer and a dome tweeter and still get
it wrong.

I had never heard a modern SET, so I was unprepared for how horrid
they sound with the more complex music. There's a reason why almost
every SET demo I heard was based on a recording of a solo or a very
small group - when somone screwed up and played something a tiny bit
complex the SETs I heard (and I think I visited *every* room) tended
to load up with grunge on massed instruments and voices.

The fact that so many worship at this phoney altar of Luddite SET
technology is a testimonial to the fact that many high enders
apparently don't really listen to gear like us DBT folks do.

Frankly, faced with a choice between listening to good vinyl and your
typical SET, I'd take the vinyl in a heartbeat, tics, pops, and and
tracking distortion included.

A companion from the BAS said that he thought he saw more SETs than
ever. We agreed that this is an example of the depths that good sound
at the show has sunk to.

I walked into one room (I think it was Manley) and saw the glowing
signs that something was probably going to be sonically awry. Instead
I actually heard pretty fair sound. I looked again and noticed that
the output tubes were in pairs. Huzzah, someone had rediscovered 1933
technology. Push-pull can work! Do you realize how sad this is?

But far worse IMO, I saw a lot of really bad amateurish sales
presentations. Most of the advertising agencies must have sent not
their "A" teams but their "zzzzz" teams. If they had used high school
students to run their sales presentations, there would have at least
been some enthusiasm. IME some of the brighter high school students
actually get AV.

How did you prepared in as far as flexing some muscles for this
Debate?

Like I said, I had a plan A and a plan B. Plan B worked and that was
that. My major problem was staying awake while Atkinson, Fremer and
others recounted what should have been forgotten memories of what
should have been their audio childhood.

If you look at our listening technology the PCABX and the LTT of today
is not the ABX of 10 years ago. We have been refining our evaluation
technology for over 30 years. High end evaluation is locked in a
broken groove - nothing has changed in decades.

What was your opponent's greatest strength?

Atkinson demonstrated no strengths. He obviously had nothing of
substance prepared. He looked harried and tired. His critical examples
were decades old. He misstated the outcome of one of his own
experiments.

There was a rumor that Stereophile was going to be renamed by
Primedia.

And, Atkinson had that master of charm - the Fremer idiot-child, on
his side. Michael threw a major fit after the end of the debate. He
obviously lives in the past far more than the rest. But anybody who
reads his articles in SP should know that.

Well, did you had fun yesterday?

I hate to see so much failure and mediocrity, even when I don't I
agree with the core ideals.

The Hilton is still a great venue and the hotel staff seemed to be
really working hard to support the show. All of the service people I
had contact in Manhattan and Queens were great. Maybe all the
unfriendly New Yorkers died in 9/11, no they were innocents that can't
be it. The people I met were nicer than they were the last time I
stayed in Manhattan. BTW, the well-known hotel I stayed in then is no
longer. I hope this does not bode ill for the Hilton. ;-)

I wanted to give the vendors and their advertising agencies lots of
points for professionalism and performance even though many of the
products were sonic crap. But a few bright spots aside, this was a
very dreary show. Can we say same-old, same-old?

How's the food?

Food is not a big thing in my life. I ate at a few different places
that were far from the top. The food was a reasonable value, it kept
me healthy and that was that.

Did you met any luminaries?

I met a few people I know from other Usenet groups. I met a few people
from Primedia. I never really even met Atkinson.

Which one did you find the most interesting?

I was surprised by all the bad-sounding high-end gear and all the
amateurish sales presentations and news conferences.

I did learn one thing, though. After seeing a number of high end audio
systems with cables the size of gas station pneumatic hoses, I figured
out that they were needed to inflate the prices.




Dear Arny,

First of all I applaud you for showing up. However this post of yours
demonstrates clearly that your bark is much more impressive when you're
behind a keyboard than when you're live in front of people. During your
appearance you looked like an insecure aging man who was suffering from
painful hemorroids. I realize you were in a hostile territory but your
bravado here set certain expectations that you totally failed to fulfill. It
IS okay to be a small-timer, Arny, but it is not okay to brag to be
something else when you fail in the spotlight . :-)

At any rate now that your cover is blown I would expect you to display
appropriate humility in the future toward your fellow small-timers.

However I agree with some of your observations. Lavo was a self-absorbed
babbling idiot who obviously is big on himself. Many of the rooms sounded
quite mediocre given the price of the systems - makes you wonder why people
buy some of that stuff. And the Bösendorfer speakers' failure to perform was
sadly comparable to yours.

Finally, as far as the botched "presentation" goes...although John Atkinson
accepted the blame for it, I disagree. What kind of idiot does not take his
own laptop and a projector with him under those circumstances? DUH! Just in
case you have fallen off the tech wagon, :-) I have a powerful traveling
setup that weighs less than 10 lbs and it goes everywhere I go on business.
You get no pity points from me for that. It just shows that you're a shoddy
amateur.

On a positive note, I was surprised to see you in a suit. It looked very
nice on you but somebody needs to teach you how to wear an open shirt. Maybe
you should ask John Atkinson. :-)

Cheers,

Margaret

In , Clyde Slick wrote :


"Lionel" wrote in message
...
In , whosbest54 wrote :

John, your story about what you did with your amps in your 20's was
interesting, but your decision making wasn't based on any scientific
method, but on your opinion/feelings.

How to be a hero without few magic legend ?

;-)

Maybe you can relate a poignant tale from the sewers.

Once upon a time an ugly, sickly and shy rambling knight named Art Sackman
has paid 5 Euros for a small bottle of water in CDG airport...

:-D

"Margaret von B." wrote in message
...


On a positive note, I was surprised to see you in a suit. It looked very
nice on you but somebody needs to teach you how to wear an open shirt.
Maybe you should ask John Atkinson. :-)


Arny looked quite the 70's Luddite.
If irony danced to disco!



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"Lionel" wrote in message
...
In , Clyde Slick wrote :


"Lionel" wrote in message
...
In , whosbest54 wrote :

John, your story about what you did with your amps in your 20's was
interesting, but your decision making wasn't based on any scientific
method, but on your opinion/feelings.

How to be a hero without few magic legend ?

;-)

Maybe you can relate a poignant tale from the sewers.

Once upon a time an ugly, sickly and shy rambling knight named Art Sackman
has paid 5 Euros for a small bottle of water in CDG airport...

:-D

Yes, the lack of choice was appalling.



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In , Margaret von B. wrote :


"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
EddieM wrote:
Arny Krueger wrote

EddieM wrote:

Victor Martell wrote

Could you be so kind as to post a blow by blow of the
proceedings?

Eddie can't get *anything* right, even the simplist thing.

It worked last night.

So you say.

Here's a working link:

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/hifi200...onkrueger.html

The picture of me in question was no doubt taken during Harry
Lavo's
108 minute, more or less, marathon

declaration-of-his-beliefs-about-audio-life-God-and-the-meaning-of-soy
-sauce, which he tried to pass off as a question. Why Atkinson
didn't
stop him I know not. Harry is an even bigger boor and bore in
person
than he is on RAHE. ;-(

On second thought, maybe Atkinson needed the comic relief that Harry's
blather provided. Harry kept me from making a couple of critical
points, and Atkinson needed any help he could get.

I read that your powerpoint presentation got bungled up, what
was that all about?

Atkinson promised me a working computer and projector. He was a
standard video interconnect cable short of a working set. I manage a
bunch of video projectors at my church - that exact cable accompanies
every projector that needs it and I have a spare on hand.

As improvrished as the show was for presentation technology - someone
probably stole the cable.

Atkinson was a no-show with the promised presentation technology. He
seemed to leave everything to the last minute. He apologized but he
screwed up because he did not have his act together.

Stuff happens.

The presentation infrastructure failure was not a major bump in my
road. It was not unexpected. I already had working plan "B" ready to
execute. I executed it and moved on.

My plan "B" was to install the Powerpoint Viewer on the PC in the
press room and run it off so I still had something to speak from. I
knew I was in the back woods of presentation technology when I saw
that neither Powerpoint nor anything like it was already on that
computer. But, I was prepared, I brought my own copy of Powerpoint on
my USB flash drive. I consider PowerPoint and Word to be part of the
minimal configuration of a business computer.

I don't blame Atkinson - the whole show was a major disappointment to
me, based on exactly what failed him, on the grounds of presentation
technology. So, the gross failure of Atkinson's presentation
technology was just a reflection of the backwards context he was
working in.

Back on the topic of audio, I heard a lot of really bad-sounding crap
masquerading as audio gear. For example the Bosendorfer speakers were
really horrid, but nobody seems to have the guts to say so, right out.

Also, it's really pathetic to see so many people trying to wring
something new out of a 6 1/2 woofer and a dome tweeter and still get
it wrong.

I had never heard a modern SET, so I was unprepared for how horrid
they sound with the more complex music. There's a reason why almost
every SET demo I heard was based on a recording of a solo or a very
small group - when somone screwed up and played something a tiny bit
complex the SETs I heard (and I think I visited *every* room) tended
to load up with grunge on massed instruments and voices.

The fact that so many worship at this phoney altar of Luddite SET
technology is a testimonial to the fact that many high enders
apparently don't really listen to gear like us DBT folks do.

Frankly, faced with a choice between listening to good vinyl and your
typical SET, I'd take the vinyl in a heartbeat, tics, pops, and and
tracking distortion included.

A companion from the BAS said that he thought he saw more SETs than
ever. We agreed that this is an example of the depths that good sound
at the show has sunk to.

I walked into one room (I think it was Manley) and saw the glowing
signs that something was probably going to be sonically awry. Instead
I actually heard pretty fair sound. I looked again and noticed that
the output tubes were in pairs. Huzzah, someone had rediscovered 1933
technology. Push-pull can work! Do you realize how sad this is?

But far worse IMO, I saw a lot of really bad amateurish sales
presentations. Most of the advertising agencies must have sent not
their "A" teams but their "zzzzz" teams. If they had used high school
students to run their sales presentations, there would have at least
been some enthusiasm. IME some of the brighter high school students
actually get AV.

How did you prepared in as far as flexing some muscles for this
Debate?

Like I said, I had a plan A and a plan B. Plan B worked and that was
that. My major problem was staying awake while Atkinson, Fremer and
others recounted what should have been forgotten memories of what
should have been their audio childhood.

If you look at our listening technology the PCABX and the LTT of today
is not the ABX of 10 years ago. We have been refining our evaluation
technology for over 30 years. High end evaluation is locked in a
broken groove - nothing has changed in decades.

What was your opponent's greatest strength?

Atkinson demonstrated no strengths. He obviously had nothing of
substance prepared. He looked harried and tired. His critical examples
were decades old. He misstated the outcome of one of his own
experiments.

There was a rumor that Stereophile was going to be renamed by
Primedia.

And, Atkinson had that master of charm - the Fremer idiot-child, on
his side. Michael threw a major fit after the end of the debate. He
obviously lives in the past far more than the rest. But anybody who
reads his articles in SP should know that.

Well, did you had fun yesterday?

I hate to see so much failure and mediocrity, even when I don't I
agree with the core ideals.

The Hilton is still a great venue and the hotel staff seemed to be
really working hard to support the show. All of the service people I
had contact in Manhattan and Queens were great. Maybe all the
unfriendly New Yorkers died in 9/11, no they were innocents that can't
be it. The people I met were nicer than they were the last time I
stayed in Manhattan. BTW, the well-known hotel I stayed in then is no
longer. I hope this does not bode ill for the Hilton. ;-)

I wanted to give the vendors and their advertising agencies lots of
points for professionalism and performance even though many of the
products were sonic crap. But a few bright spots aside, this was a
very dreary show. Can we say same-old, same-old?

How's the food?

Food is not a big thing in my life. I ate at a few different places
that were far from the top. The food was a reasonable value, it kept
me healthy and that was that.

Did you met any luminaries?

I met a few people I know from other Usenet groups. I met a few people
from Primedia. I never really even met Atkinson.

Which one did you find the most interesting?

I was surprised by all the bad-sounding high-end gear and all the
amateurish sales presentations and news conferences.

I did learn one thing, though. After seeing a number of high end audio
systems with cables the size of gas station pneumatic hoses, I figured
out that they were needed to inflate the prices.




Dear Arny,

First of all I applaud you for showing up. However this post of yours
demonstrates clearly that your bark is much more impressive when you're
behind a keyboard than when you're live in front of people. During your
appearance you looked like an insecure aging man who was suffering from
painful hemorroids. I realize you were in a hostile territory but your
bravado here set certain expectations that you totally failed to fulfill.
It IS okay to be a small-timer, Arny, but it is not okay to brag to be
something else when you fail in the spotlight . :-)

At any rate now that your cover is blown I would expect you to display
appropriate humility in the future toward your fellow small-timers.

However I agree with some of your observations. Lavo was a self-absorbed
babbling idiot who obviously is big on himself. Many of the rooms sounded
quite mediocre given the price of the systems - makes you wonder why
people buy some of that stuff. And the Bösendorfer speakers' failure to
perform was sadly comparable to yours.

Finally, as far as the botched "presentation" goes...although John
Atkinson accepted the blame for it, I disagree. What kind of idiot does
not take his own laptop and a projector with him under those
circumstances? DUH! Just in case you have fallen off the tech wagon, :-) I
have a powerful traveling setup that weighs less than 10 lbs and it goes
everywhere I go on business.

Because you are a professional Maggy. This equipment is part of your panoply
of sales-droïd.

You get no pity points from me for that. It
just shows that you're a shoddy amateur.

Amateur ? Sounds to me that it is for this quality that Arnold has been
invited by John Atkinson who is a professional.
Are you sure to have correctly understood the prose and cons of this
debate ?
This was a debate between amateurs and professionals Maggy, nothing else...

On a positive note, I was surprised to see you in a suit. It looked very
nice on you but somebody needs to teach you how to wear an open shirt.
Maybe you should ask John Atkinson. :-)

And Arnold can teach John how to manipulate a razor.

In conclusion if you attended to the debate your above report his as
indigent as your understanding of its origin.

You're welcome.

Richard [sic] said:

But it wasn't broken when it was first posted - was it, Richard?
You have a thing for Arny Krueger?

I can only tell you that, for whatever reason, it did not work for me
yesterday and that is a fact.

There were two different links. Are you aware of that, or did Krooger
enlist you as a soldier in his "debating trade" army?

Exactly what kind of "thing" would you be referring to Tom or is this
some kind of homophobic reference?

Another newbie......

Since I do not know Arny,

You don't? Well, I guess you can have some latitude if that's the case.

Inane comments like yours from individuals, who obviously have
psychological "issues", are cognitively challenged or both are why I
seldom respond to this group.

Now you're talking about Krooger again. He's mentally ill. Perhaps this is
another thing you didn't know.

p.s. Tom PLONK!

Recovering from an infection of Kroopologism isn't easy. You might want to
reconsider plonking Tom, because he's one of the few who shook it off.

wrote:

Yeah, "George", let's compare Arny's credibility to yours. Arny went
to NYC and had a public face-to-face with Atkinson. Will you have a
public face-to-face with Arny Krueger?
Will you call him "****ful One", "Turdborg", "Mr.
****","****-for-brains", "pedophile", etc., to his face?

snicker

First, George would have to become part of the real world.

In article ,
whosbest54 wrote:

And, as I say on my web page, often those differences
aren't important, even if they exist.

And sometimes they're important even if they don't exist...

Stephen

In , MINe 109 wrote :

In article ,
whosbest54 wrote:

And, as I say on my web page, often those differences
aren't important, even if they exist.

And sometimes they're important even if they don't exist...

:-)

Margaret von B. wrote:

First of all I applaud you for showing up. However this post of
yours
demonstrates clearly that your bark is much more impressive when
you're behind a keyboard than when you're live in front of people.

I take it that you were present at the HE2005 debate?

During your appearance you looked like an insecure aging man who was
suffering from painful hemorroids.

That must have been during Harry's defecation sequence.

I realize you were in a hostile
territory but your bravado here set certain expectations that you
totally failed to fulfill.

Why don't you ask Atkinson if I made a secret of my opinion of the
quality of the other presentations that I attended?

It IS okay to be a small-timer, Arny, but
it is not okay to brag to be something else when you fail in the
spotlight . :-)

What failure?

At any rate now that your cover is blown I would expect you to
display
appropriate humility in the future toward your fellow small-timers.

I didn't notice any females in the room during the presentation.

However I agree with some of your observations. Lavo was a
self-absorbed babbling idiot who obviously is big on himself. Many
of
the rooms sounded quite mediocre given the price of the systems -
makes you wonder why people buy some of that stuff. And the
Bösendorfer speakers' failure to perform was sadly comparable to
yours.

OK Maggies, let's talk about your failure to identify yourself to me,
oh vacuously brave one.

Finally, as far as the botched "presentation" goes...although John
Atkinson accepted the blame for it, I disagree. What kind of idiot
does not take his own laptop and a projector with him under those
circumstances?

One who is under the impression that he is not flying off the edge of
the civilized world.

DUH! Just in case you have fallen off the tech wagon,
:-) I have a powerful traveling setup that weighs less than 10 lbs
and it goes everywhere I go on business. You get no pity points from
me for that. It just shows that you're a shoddy amateur.

It just shows that I'm too much of a trusting soul.

On a positive note, I was surprised to see you in a suit. It looked
very nice on you but somebody needs to teach you how to wear an open
shirt. Maybe you should ask John Atkinson. :-)

For the record I wasn't wearing a suit. Any real woman or gay man who
was actually in the room would know that. Thanks for proving yourself
to be a liar again, Maggie.

"Lionel" wrote in message
...
In , Margaret von B. wrote :


"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
EddieM wrote:
Arny Krueger wrote

EddieM wrote:

Victor Martell wrote

Could you be so kind as to post a blow by blow of the
proceedings?

Eddie can't get *anything* right, even the simplist thing.

It worked last night.

So you say.

Here's a working link:

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/hifi200...onkrueger.html

The picture of me in question was no doubt taken during Harry
Lavo's
108 minute, more or less, marathon

declaration-of-his-beliefs-about-audio-life-God-and-the-meaning-of-soy
-sauce, which he tried to pass off as a question. Why Atkinson
didn't
stop him I know not. Harry is an even bigger boor and bore in
person
than he is on RAHE. ;-(

On second thought, maybe Atkinson needed the comic relief that Harry's
blather provided. Harry kept me from making a couple of critical
points, and Atkinson needed any help he could get.

I read that your powerpoint presentation got bungled up, what
was that all about?

Atkinson promised me a working computer and projector. He was a
standard video interconnect cable short of a working set. I manage a
bunch of video projectors at my church - that exact cable accompanies
every projector that needs it and I have a spare on hand.

As improvrished as the show was for presentation technology - someone
probably stole the cable.

Atkinson was a no-show with the promised presentation technology. He
seemed to leave everything to the last minute. He apologized but he
screwed up because he did not have his act together.

Stuff happens.

The presentation infrastructure failure was not a major bump in my
road. It was not unexpected. I already had working plan "B" ready to
execute. I executed it and moved on.

My plan "B" was to install the Powerpoint Viewer on the PC in the
press room and run it off so I still had something to speak from. I
knew I was in the back woods of presentation technology when I saw
that neither Powerpoint nor anything like it was already on that
computer. But, I was prepared, I brought my own copy of Powerpoint on
my USB flash drive. I consider PowerPoint and Word to be part of the
minimal configuration of a business computer.

I don't blame Atkinson - the whole show was a major disappointment to
me, based on exactly what failed him, on the grounds of presentation
technology. So, the gross failure of Atkinson's presentation
technology was just a reflection of the backwards context he was
working in.

Back on the topic of audio, I heard a lot of really bad-sounding crap
masquerading as audio gear. For example the Bosendorfer speakers were
really horrid, but nobody seems to have the guts to say so, right out.

Also, it's really pathetic to see so many people trying to wring
something new out of a 6 1/2 woofer and a dome tweeter and still get
it wrong.

I had never heard a modern SET, so I was unprepared for how horrid
they sound with the more complex music. There's a reason why almost
every SET demo I heard was based on a recording of a solo or a very
small group - when somone screwed up and played something a tiny bit
complex the SETs I heard (and I think I visited *every* room) tended
to load up with grunge on massed instruments and voices.

The fact that so many worship at this phoney altar of Luddite SET
technology is a testimonial to the fact that many high enders
apparently don't really listen to gear like us DBT folks do.

Frankly, faced with a choice between listening to good vinyl and your
typical SET, I'd take the vinyl in a heartbeat, tics, pops, and and
tracking distortion included.

A companion from the BAS said that he thought he saw more SETs than
ever. We agreed that this is an example of the depths that good sound
at the show has sunk to.

I walked into one room (I think it was Manley) and saw the glowing
signs that something was probably going to be sonically awry. Instead
I actually heard pretty fair sound. I looked again and noticed that
the output tubes were in pairs. Huzzah, someone had rediscovered 1933
technology. Push-pull can work! Do you realize how sad this is?

But far worse IMO, I saw a lot of really bad amateurish sales
presentations. Most of the advertising agencies must have sent not
their "A" teams but their "zzzzz" teams. If they had used high school
students to run their sales presentations, there would have at least
been some enthusiasm. IME some of the brighter high school students
actually get AV.

How did you prepared in as far as flexing some muscles for this
Debate?

Like I said, I had a plan A and a plan B. Plan B worked and that was
that. My major problem was staying awake while Atkinson, Fremer and
others recounted what should have been forgotten memories of what
should have been their audio childhood.

If you look at our listening technology the PCABX and the LTT of today
is not the ABX of 10 years ago. We have been refining our evaluation
technology for over 30 years. High end evaluation is locked in a
broken groove - nothing has changed in decades.

What was your opponent's greatest strength?

Atkinson demonstrated no strengths. He obviously had nothing of
substance prepared. He looked harried and tired. His critical examples
were decades old. He misstated the outcome of one of his own
experiments.

There was a rumor that Stereophile was going to be renamed by
Primedia.

And, Atkinson had that master of charm - the Fremer idiot-child, on
his side. Michael threw a major fit after the end of the debate. He
obviously lives in the past far more than the rest. But anybody who
reads his articles in SP should know that.

Well, did you had fun yesterday?

I hate to see so much failure and mediocrity, even when I don't I
agree with the core ideals.

The Hilton is still a great venue and the hotel staff seemed to be
really working hard to support the show. All of the service people I
had contact in Manhattan and Queens were great. Maybe all the
unfriendly New Yorkers died in 9/11, no they were innocents that can't
be it. The people I met were nicer than they were the last time I
stayed in Manhattan. BTW, the well-known hotel I stayed in then is no
longer. I hope this does not bode ill for the Hilton. ;-)

I wanted to give the vendors and their advertising agencies lots of
points for professionalism and performance even though many of the
products were sonic crap. But a few bright spots aside, this was a
very dreary show. Can we say same-old, same-old?

How's the food?

Food is not a big thing in my life. I ate at a few different places
that were far from the top. The food was a reasonable value, it kept
me healthy and that was that.

Did you met any luminaries?

I met a few people I know from other Usenet groups. I met a few people
from Primedia. I never really even met Atkinson.

Which one did you find the most interesting?

I was surprised by all the bad-sounding high-end gear and all the
amateurish sales presentations and news conferences.

I did learn one thing, though. After seeing a number of high end audio
systems with cables the size of gas station pneumatic hoses, I figured
out that they were needed to inflate the prices.




Dear Arny,

First of all I applaud you for showing up. However this post of yours
demonstrates clearly that your bark is much more impressive when you're
behind a keyboard than when you're live in front of people. During your
appearance you looked like an insecure aging man who was suffering from
painful hemorroids. I realize you were in a hostile territory but your
bravado here set certain expectations that you totally failed to fulfill.
It IS okay to be a small-timer, Arny, but it is not okay to brag to be
something else when you fail in the spotlight . :-)

At any rate now that your cover is blown I would expect you to display
appropriate humility in the future toward your fellow small-timers.

However I agree with some of your observations. Lavo was a self-absorbed
babbling idiot who obviously is big on himself. Many of the rooms sounded
quite mediocre given the price of the systems - makes you wonder why
people buy some of that stuff. And the Bösendorfer speakers' failure to
perform was sadly comparable to yours.

Finally, as far as the botched "presentation" goes...although John
Atkinson accepted the blame for it, I disagree. What kind of idiot does
not take his own laptop and a projector with him under those
circumstances? DUH! Just in case you have fallen off the tech wagon, :-)
I
have a powerful traveling setup that weighs less than 10 lbs and it goes
everywhere I go on business.

Squeak squeak squeak.....

Ah, it is Arny's self-appointed little gerbil. :-)

Margaret

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
Margaret von B. wrote:

First of all I applaud you for showing up. However this post of
yours
demonstrates clearly that your bark is much more impressive when
you're behind a keyboard than when you're live in front of people.

I take it that you were present at the HE2005 debate?


What a waste of time that was!

During your appearance you looked like an insecure aging man who was
suffering from painful hemorroids.

That must have been during Harry's defecation sequence.


No. That seemed to be the default expression. In fact, a doctor friend of
mine remarked that you come across like a person who is on Zoloft. I hope
he's wrong because I have nothing against you.

I realize you were in a hostile
territory but your bravado here set certain expectations that you
totally failed to fulfill.

Why don't you ask Atkinson if I made a secret of my opinion of the
quality of the other presentations that I attended?


There we go again. Too bad you didn't execute during the debate so the rest
of us could have witnessed it.

It IS okay to be a small-timer, Arny, but
it is not okay to brag to be something else when you fail in the
spotlight . :-)

What failure?


Failure to hold your own. You lost.

At any rate now that your cover is blown I would expect you to
display
appropriate humility in the future toward your fellow small-timers.

I didn't notice any females in the room during the presentation.


Really, Mr. Deer-in-the-headlights? :-)

However I agree with some of your observations. Lavo was a
self-absorbed babbling idiot who obviously is big on himself. Many
of
the rooms sounded quite mediocre given the price of the systems -
makes you wonder why people buy some of that stuff. And the
Bösendorfer speakers' failure to perform was sadly comparable to
yours.

OK Maggies, let's talk about your failure to identify yourself to me,
oh vacuously brave one.


Your expression wasn't exactly inviting. And I left before the end of the
nonevent anyway.

Finally, as far as the botched "presentation" goes...although John
Atkinson accepted the blame for it, I disagree. What kind of idiot
does not take his own laptop and a projector with him under those
circumstances?

One who is under the impression that he is not flying off the edge of
the civilized world.


Excuses excuses excuses - as usual.

DUH! Just in case you have fallen off the tech wagon,
:-) I have a powerful traveling setup that weighs less than 10 lbs
and it goes everywhere I go on business. You get no pity points from
me for that. It just shows that you're a shoddy amateur.

It just shows that I'm too much of a trusting soul.


It shows you're a fool. That's all.

On a positive note, I was surprised to see you in a suit. It looked
very nice on you but somebody needs to teach you how to wear an open
shirt. Maybe you should ask John Atkinson. :-)

For the record I wasn't wearing a suit. Any real woman or gay man who
was actually in the room would know that. Thanks for proving yourself
to be a liar again, Maggie.


I guess I wasn't looking closely enough. I always thought that you look like
Jeffrey Dahmer and it scares me. And when you make statements like above, I
get even more scared. BTW, I'm serious. Just pull up Dahmer's picture and
imagine him in his early sixties or late fifties.

Perhaps if you are nicer to me I will one day introduce myself to you
without the presence of my Wolfhounds. :-)

Cheers,

Margaret

"Margaret von B." wrote:


Ah, it is Arny's self-appointed little gerbil. :-)

You prefer to be an hypocrit old whore, eh "Margaret" ?




----------
Sent via SPRACI - http://www.spraci.com/ - Parties,Raves,Clubs,Festivals

Lionel_Chapuis wrote in message
...
"Margaret von B." wrote:


Ah, it is Arny's self-appointed little gerbil. :-)

You prefer to be an hypocrit old whore, eh "Margaret" ?
squeak squeak squeak

:-)

Margaret