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#1
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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MSB Link
For several years I have been running the digital output from my Marantz
CD-67SE through an MSB Link DtoA converter. I noticed that the bass was very "tubby". Today I disconnected the MSB and used the analog output of the Marantz. The "tubby" bass was gone. I can only assume that the MSB was causing the problem. ---MIKE--- In the White Mountains of New Hampshire (44° 15' N - Elevation 1580') |
#2
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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MSB Link
On Aug 23, 3:46*pm, (---MIKE---) wrote:
*The "tubby" bass was gone. *I can only assume that the MSB was causing the problem. Or the D/A converter? I -assume- that: BEFO CD Player -- DA converter -- Amplifier -- Speakers AFTER: CD Player -- Amplifier -- Speakers Or am I missing something? Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA |
#3
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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MSB Link
Peter Wieck asked:
Or am I missing something? No - CD player to Chase switcher to preamp. I just removed the MSB which was between the CD player and the Chase switcher. Apparently the MSB analog section did something that made the bass tubby. ---MIKE--- In the White Mountains of New Hampshire (44° 15' N - Elevation 1580') |
#4
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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MSB Link
---MIKE--- wrote:
For several years I have been running the digital output from my Marantz CD-67SE through an MSB Link DtoA converter. I noticed that the bass was very "tubby". Today I disconnected the MSB and used the analog output of the Marantz. The "tubby" bass was gone. I can only assume that the MSB was causing the problem. You can make other assumptions that are just as reasonable, based on the evidence so far. One is that the difference you heard, was imaginary. -- -S A wise man, therefore, proportions his belief to the evidence. -- David Hume, "On Miracles" (1748) |
#5
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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MSB Link
On 26 Aug 2008 12:43:00 GMT, Steven Sullivan wrote:
---MIKE--- wrote: For several years I have been running the digital output from my Marantz CD-67SE through an MSB Link DtoA converter. I noticed that the bass was very "tubby". Today I disconnected the MSB and used the analog output of the Marantz. The "tubby" bass was gone. I can only assume that the MSB was causing the problem. You can make other assumptions that are just as reasonable, based on the evidence so far. One is that the difference you heard, was imaginary. Oh no! Here we go down this road again sigh --- Rob Tweed Company: M/Gateway Developments Ltd Registered in England: No 3220901 Registered Office: 58 Francis Road,Ashford, Kent TN23 7UR Web-site: http://www.mgateway.com |
#6
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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MSB Link
Rob Tweed wrote:
On 26 Aug 2008 12:43:00 GMT, Steven Sullivan wrote: ---MIKE--- wrote: For several years I have been running the digital output from my Marantz CD-67SE through an MSB Link DtoA converter. I noticed that the bass was very "tubby". Today I disconnected the MSB and used the analog output of the Marantz. The "tubby" bass was gone. I can only assume that the MSB was causing the problem. You can make other assumptions that are just as reasonable, based on the evidence so far. One is that the difference you heard, was imaginary. Oh no! Here we go down this road again sigh Maybe if more audio hobbyists learned about scientific method, there'd be no need to. -- -S A wise man, therefore, proportions his belief to the evidence. -- David Hume, "On Miracles" (1748) |
#7
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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MSB Link
On Aug 28, 5:19*am, Steven Sullivan wrote:
Rob Tweed wrote: On 26 Aug 2008 12:43:00 GMT, Steven Sullivan wrote: ---MIKE--- wrote: For several years I have been running the digital output from my Marantz CD-67SE through an MSB Link DtoA converter. *I noticed that the bass was very "tubby". *Today I disconnected the MSB and used the analog output of the Marantz. *The "tubby" bass was gone. *I can only assume that the MSB was causing the problem. You can make other assumptions that are just as reasonable, based on the evidence so far. One is that the difference you heard, was imaginary. Oh no! Here we go down this road again sigh Maybe if more audio hobbyists learned about scientific method, there'd be no need to. -- -S A wise man, therefore, proportions his belief to the evidence. -- David Hume, "On Miracles" (1748) If audio were only a matter of science, this newsgroup would have no reason to exist. But, in fact, it is as much a matter of taste, prejudice and preference as it is of science. Also, pre-conceived notions, received wisdom and deeply held belief systems. Would any of you have it otherwise? Wouldn't it be boring? So..... pass the ammunition and keep the humor dry! Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA |
#8
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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MSB Link
"Steven Sullivan" wrote in message
---MIKE--- wrote: For several years I have been running the digital output from my Marantz CD-67SE through an MSB Link DtoA converter. I noticed that the bass was very "tubby". Today I disconnected the MSB and used the analog output of the Marantz. The "tubby" bass was gone. I can only assume that the MSB was causing the problem. You can make other assumptions that are just as reasonable, based on the evidence so far. One is that the difference you heard, was imaginary. Or, it could be due to: Level mismatch Not listening to the identical same musical passage during the comparison Excess switch-over delay Any of these could be perceived even though there was no audible fault in the MSB link. |
#9
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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MSB Link
On Aug 27, 9:20 am, Rob Tweed wrote:
On 26 Aug 2008 12:43:00 GMT, Steven Sullivan You can make other assumptions that are just as reasonable, based on the evidence so far. One is that the difference you heard, was imaginary. Oh no! Here we go down this road again sigh Are you suggesting that this is simply not one possible explanation, or are you suggesting that you simply aren't interested in including this as a possible explanation? |
#11
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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MSB Link
On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 17:26:15 -0700, Arny Krueger wrote
(in article ): "Steven Sullivan" wrote in message ---MIKE--- wrote: For several years I have been running the digital output from my Marantz CD-67SE through an MSB Link DtoA converter. I noticed that the bass was very "tubby". Today I disconnected the MSB and used the analog output of the Marantz. The "tubby" bass was gone. I can only assume that the MSB was causing the problem. You can make other assumptions that are just as reasonable, based on the evidence so far. One is that the difference you heard, was imaginary. Or, it could be due to: Level mismatch Not listening to the identical same musical passage during the comparison Excess switch-over delay Any of these could be perceived even though there was no audible fault in the MSB link. What you say is true. Of course, it could well be that the MSB is not flat in the upper-bass region causing tubby-sounding bass. I have a friend with an MSB DAC and compared to my Sonic Frontiers DAC-2/D2D-1 I find the bass a bit on the "hollow" side as well. This may not be a coincidence. |
#12
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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MSB Link
Peter Wieck wrote:
On Aug 28, 5:19?am, Steven Sullivan wrote: Rob Tweed wrote: On 26 Aug 2008 12:43:00 GMT, Steven Sullivan wrote: ---MIKE--- wrote: For several years I have been running the digital output from my Marantz CD-67SE through an MSB Link DtoA converter. ?I noticed that the bass was very "tubby". ?Today I disconnected the MSB and used the analog output of the Marantz. ?The "tubby" bass was gone. ?I can only assume that the MSB was causing the problem. You can make other assumptions that are just as reasonable, based on the evidence so far. One is that the difference you heard, was imaginary. Oh no! Here we go down this road again sigh Maybe if more audio hobbyists learned about scientific method, there'd be no need to. -- -S A wise man, therefore, proportions his belief to the evidence. -- David Hume, "On Miracles" (1748) If audio were only a matter of science, this newsgroup would have no reason to exist. True in a sense. This newsgroup *stands out* among audio fora as one of the few to tolerate a healthy disrespect for claims of audio 'fact' that are based on subjective impression and credulity (the norm for 'audiophile' documentation) or pseudoscientific marketing babble. So, yes, if audiophile culture gave scientific methods the respect they deserve, then RAHE would have no particular reason to exist...any number of other fora would suffice. But, in fact, it is as much a matter of taste, prejudice and preference as it is of science. One can 'prefer' a certain color of rabbits' foot, but that doesn't make them any more able to influence 'luck'. Also, pre-conceived notions, received wisdom and deeply held belief systems. Would any of you have it otherwise? Yes. Wouldn't it be boring? No; if 'audio' were to devote itself more to issues that truly have audible impact on home reproduction... issues that are far from 'solved' by science...it would be far *more* interesting. Instead, much of 'audio' is devoted to ludicrously serious discussion of the cut and quality of the emperor's new clothes. -- -S A wise man, therefore, proportions his belief to the evidence. -- David Hume, "On Miracles" (1748) |
#13
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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MSB Link
"Rob Tweed" wrote in message
On 29 Aug 2008 00:26:38 GMT, wrote: On Aug 27, 9:20 am, Rob Tweed wrote: On 26 Aug 2008 12:43:00 GMT, Steven Sullivan You can make other assumptions that are just as reasonable, based on the evidence so far. One is that the difference you heard, was imaginary. Oh no! Here we go down this road again sigh Are you suggesting that this is simply not one possible explanation, or are you suggesting that you simply aren't interested in including this as a possible explanation? No, I just think this "is it real or imaginary" argument has been done to death. The issue remains huge as long as people don't lift a finger to resolve it. There are two ways out, both pretty viable for many people. (1) Actually do a proper level-matched, time-synched, bias-controlled listening test. (2) Do a technical test that sheds light on the problem. As I detail in my response to another post in this thread, option (2) is far from being out of the reach of the average audiophile. |
#14
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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MSB Link
"Sonnova" wrote in message
On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 17:26:15 -0700, Arny Krueger wrote (in article ): "Steven Sullivan" wrote in message ---MIKE--- wrote: For several years I have been running the digital output from my Marantz CD-67SE through an MSB Link DtoA converter. I noticed that the bass was very "tubby". Today I disconnected the MSB and used the analog output of the Marantz. The "tubby" bass was gone. I can only assume that the MSB was causing the problem. You can make other assumptions that are just as reasonable, based on the evidence so far. One is that the difference you heard, was imaginary. Or, it could be due to: Level mismatch Not listening to the identical same musical passage during the comparison Excess switch-over delay Any of these could be perceived even though there was no audible fault in the MSB link. What you say is true. Of course, it could well be that the MSB is not flat in the upper-bass region causing tubby-sounding bass. I have a friend with an MSB DAC and compared to my Sonic Frontiers DAC-2/D2D-1 I find the bass a bit on the "hollow" side as well. This may not be a coincidence. That could be resolved pretty quickly and cheaply using a modern computer with the current quality of internal audio interfaces with a digital output and the audio Rightmark program. Now that we've cast the problem as a difference, and not just about absolute flatness of response, the modest FR of the audio interface in the computer would not be a serious issue. |
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