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---MIKE--- ---MIKE--- is offline
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For several years I have been running the digital output from my Marantz
CD-67SE through an MSB Link DtoA converter. I noticed that the bass was
very "tubby". Today I disconnected the MSB and used the analog output
of the Marantz. The "tubby" bass was gone. I can only assume that the
MSB was causing the problem.


---MIKE---
In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
(44° 15' N - Elevation 1580')



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Peter Wieck Peter Wieck is offline
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On Aug 23, 3:46*pm, (---MIKE---) wrote:

*The "tubby" bass was gone. *I can only assume that the
MSB was causing the problem.


Or the D/A converter? I -assume- that:

BEFO CD Player -- DA converter -- Amplifier -- Speakers

AFTER: CD Player -- Amplifier -- Speakers

Or am I missing something?

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
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---MIKE--- ---MIKE--- is offline
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Peter Wieck asked:

Or am I missing something?


No - CD player to Chase switcher to preamp. I just removed the MSB
which was between the CD player and the Chase switcher. Apparently the
MSB analog section did something that made the bass tubby.


---MIKE---
In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
(44° 15' N - Elevation 1580')



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Steven Sullivan Steven Sullivan is offline
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---MIKE--- wrote:
For several years I have been running the digital output from my Marantz
CD-67SE through an MSB Link DtoA converter. I noticed that the bass was
very "tubby". Today I disconnected the MSB and used the analog output
of the Marantz. The "tubby" bass was gone. I can only assume that the
MSB was causing the problem.


You can make other assumptions that are just as reasonable, based on
the evidence so far.

One is that the difference you heard, was imaginary.

--
-S
A wise man, therefore, proportions his belief to the evidence. -- David Hume, "On Miracles"
(1748)
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Rob Tweed Rob Tweed is offline
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On 26 Aug 2008 12:43:00 GMT, Steven Sullivan wrote:

---MIKE--- wrote:
For several years I have been running the digital output from my Marantz
CD-67SE through an MSB Link DtoA converter. I noticed that the bass was
very "tubby". Today I disconnected the MSB and used the analog output
of the Marantz. The "tubby" bass was gone. I can only assume that the
MSB was causing the problem.


You can make other assumptions that are just as reasonable, based on
the evidence so far.

One is that the difference you heard, was imaginary.


Oh no! Here we go down this road again sigh

---

Rob Tweed
Company: M/Gateway Developments Ltd
Registered in England: No 3220901
Registered Office: 58 Francis Road,Ashford, Kent TN23 7UR

Web-site: http://www.mgateway.com


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Steven Sullivan Steven Sullivan is offline
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Rob Tweed wrote:
On 26 Aug 2008 12:43:00 GMT, Steven Sullivan wrote:


---MIKE--- wrote:
For several years I have been running the digital output from my Marantz
CD-67SE through an MSB Link DtoA converter. I noticed that the bass was
very "tubby". Today I disconnected the MSB and used the analog output
of the Marantz. The "tubby" bass was gone. I can only assume that the
MSB was causing the problem.


You can make other assumptions that are just as reasonable, based on
the evidence so far.

One is that the difference you heard, was imaginary.


Oh no! Here we go down this road again sigh


Maybe if more audio hobbyists learned about scientific method,
there'd be no need to.


--
-S
A wise man, therefore, proportions his belief to the evidence. -- David Hume, "On Miracles"
(1748)

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Peter Wieck Peter Wieck is offline
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On Aug 28, 5:19*am, Steven Sullivan wrote:
Rob Tweed wrote:
On 26 Aug 2008 12:43:00 GMT, Steven Sullivan wrote:
---MIKE--- wrote:
For several years I have been running the digital output from my Marantz
CD-67SE through an MSB Link DtoA converter. *I noticed that the bass was
very "tubby". *Today I disconnected the MSB and used the analog output
of the Marantz. *The "tubby" bass was gone. *I can only assume that the
MSB was causing the problem.


You can make other assumptions that are just as reasonable, based on
the evidence so far.


One is that the difference you heard, was imaginary.

Oh no! Here we go down this road again sigh


Maybe if more audio hobbyists learned about scientific method,
there'd be no need to.

--
-S
A wise man, therefore, proportions his belief to the evidence. -- David Hume, "On Miracles"
(1748)


If audio were only a matter of science, this newsgroup would have no
reason to exist. But, in fact, it is as much a matter of taste,
prejudice and preference as it is of science. Also, pre-conceived
notions, received wisdom and deeply held belief systems.

Would any of you have it otherwise? Wouldn't it be boring?

So..... pass the ammunition and keep the humor dry!

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

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Arny Krueger Arny Krueger is offline
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"Steven Sullivan" wrote in message

---MIKE--- wrote:
For several years I have been running the digital output
from my Marantz CD-67SE through an MSB Link DtoA
converter. I noticed that the bass was very "tubby".
Today I disconnected the MSB and used the analog output
of the Marantz. The "tubby" bass was gone. I can only
assume that the MSB was causing the problem.


You can make other assumptions that are just as
reasonable, based on the evidence so far.


One is that the difference you heard, was imaginary.


Or, it could be due to:

Level mismatch

Not listening to the identical same musical passage during the
comparison

Excess switch-over delay

Any of these could be perceived even though there was no audible fault in
the MSB link.

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[email protected] dpierce.cartchunk.org@gmail.com is offline
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On Aug 27, 9:20 am, Rob Tweed wrote:
On 26 Aug 2008 12:43:00 GMT, Steven Sullivan
You can make other assumptions that are just as
reasonable, based on the evidence so far.
One is that the difference you heard, was imaginary.


Oh no! Here we go down this road again sigh


Are you suggesting that this is simply not one
possible explanation, or are you suggesting that
you simply aren't interested in including this
as a possible explanation?
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Sonnova Sonnova is offline
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On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 17:26:15 -0700, Arny Krueger wrote
(in article ):

"Steven Sullivan" wrote in message

---MIKE--- wrote:
For several years I have been running the digital output
from my Marantz CD-67SE through an MSB Link DtoA
converter. I noticed that the bass was very "tubby".
Today I disconnected the MSB and used the analog output
of the Marantz. The "tubby" bass was gone. I can only
assume that the MSB was causing the problem.


You can make other assumptions that are just as
reasonable, based on the evidence so far.


One is that the difference you heard, was imaginary.


Or, it could be due to:

Level mismatch

Not listening to the identical same musical passage during the
comparison

Excess switch-over delay

Any of these could be perceived even though there was no audible fault in
the MSB link.


What you say is true. Of course, it could well be that the MSB is not flat in
the upper-bass region causing tubby-sounding bass. I have a friend with an
MSB DAC and compared to my Sonic Frontiers DAC-2/D2D-1 I find the bass a bit
on the "hollow" side as well. This may not be a coincidence.
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Steven Sullivan Steven Sullivan is offline
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Peter Wieck wrote:
On Aug 28, 5:19?am, Steven Sullivan wrote:
Rob Tweed wrote:
On 26 Aug 2008 12:43:00 GMT, Steven Sullivan wrote:
---MIKE--- wrote:
For several years I have been running the digital output from my Marantz
CD-67SE through an MSB Link DtoA converter. ?I noticed that the bass was
very "tubby". ?Today I disconnected the MSB and used the analog output
of the Marantz. ?The "tubby" bass was gone. ?I can only assume that the
MSB was causing the problem.


You can make other assumptions that are just as reasonable, based on
the evidence so far.


One is that the difference you heard, was imaginary.
Oh no! Here we go down this road again sigh


Maybe if more audio hobbyists learned about scientific method,
there'd be no need to.

--
-S
A wise man, therefore, proportions his belief to the evidence. -- David Hume, "On Miracles"
(1748)


If audio were only a matter of science,
this newsgroup would have no
reason to exist.


True in a sense. This newsgroup *stands out* among audio fora as one of the few to tolerate a
healthy disrespect for claims of audio 'fact' that are based on subjective impression and
credulity (the norm for 'audiophile' documentation) or pseudoscientific marketing babble.
So, yes, if audiophile culture gave scientific methods the respect they deserve, then RAHE
would have no particular reason to exist...any number of other fora would suffice.

But, in fact, it is as much a matter of taste,
prejudice and preference as it is of science.


One can 'prefer' a certain color of rabbits' foot, but that doesn't make
them any more able to influence 'luck'.

Also, pre-conceived
notions, received wisdom and deeply held belief systems.
Would any of you have it otherwise?


Yes.

Wouldn't it be boring?


No; if 'audio' were to devote itself more to issues that
truly have audible impact on home reproduction...
issues that are far from 'solved' by science...it would be far
*more* interesting.

Instead, much of 'audio' is devoted to ludicrously serious
discussion of the cut and quality of the emperor's new clothes.

--
-S
A wise man, therefore, proportions his belief to the evidence. -- David Hume, "On Miracles"
(1748)
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Arny Krueger Arny Krueger is offline
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"Sonnova" wrote in message

On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 17:26:15 -0700, Arny Krueger wrote
(in article ):

"Steven Sullivan" wrote in message

---MIKE--- wrote:
For several years I have been running the digital
output from my Marantz CD-67SE through an MSB Link DtoA
converter. I noticed that the bass was very "tubby".
Today I disconnected the MSB and used the analog output
of the Marantz. The "tubby" bass was gone. I can only
assume that the MSB was causing the problem.

You can make other assumptions that are just as
reasonable, based on the evidence so far.


One is that the difference you heard, was imaginary.


Or, it could be due to:

Level mismatch

Not listening to the identical same musical passage
during the comparison

Excess switch-over delay

Any of these could be perceived even though there was no
audible fault in the MSB link.


What you say is true. Of course, it could well be that
the MSB is not flat in the upper-bass region causing
tubby-sounding bass. I have a friend with an MSB DAC and
compared to my Sonic Frontiers DAC-2/D2D-1 I find the
bass a bit on the "hollow" side as well. This may not be
a coincidence.


That could be resolved pretty quickly and cheaply using a modern computer
with the current quality of internal audio interfaces with a digital output
and the audio Rightmark program. Now that we've cast the problem as a
difference, and not just about absolute flatness of response, the modest FR
of the audio interface in the computer would not be a serious issue.


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