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Ever heard an exotic high-dollar turntable playing LP's? Hugedifference? No?



 
 
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  #41  
Old August 9th 18, 09:58 AM posted to rec.audio.pro
Trevor
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Default Ever heard an exotic high-dollar turntable playing LP's? Hugedifference? No?

On 9/08/2018 9:04 AM, Pamela wrote:
> I've never understood this properly but on a linear arm turntable,
> wouldn't there still be a lateral force experienced by the stylus
> (which some sensor then picks up and activates the arm servo)?


Of course. Should be no more than with any other turntable/arm combo though.

> Isn't that lateral force going to introduce at least some audio
> distortion?


The lateral force by itself should not introduce very much distortion,
and no more than any other turntable (probably less). It's an
unavoidable consequence of dragging a rock through vinyl. What you do
gain is the stylus is always at the proper angle to the groove, or so
close as makes no difference. Whether you introduce other problems
though is another matter. Funny though that some people forget the lathe
cutter head suffers from these same problems and is already embedded on
the disc. :-)



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  #42  
Old August 9th 18, 01:20 PM posted to rec.audio.pro
Scott Dorsey
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Default Ever heard an exotic high-dollar turntable playing LP's?Huge difference? No?

Ralph Barone > wrote:
>
>Thanks for the history lesson Scott. Did anyone ever plot the equivalent of
>the Fletcher-Munson curves for cocaine?


Not that I can find, and I did a bunch of medline searches a decade ago.
If anyone knows of any research on how marijuana or cocaine changes hearing
perception (not research on long-term changes in hearing.. there are plenty
of those) I'd love to see some.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  #43  
Old August 9th 18, 01:25 PM posted to rec.audio.pro
Scott Dorsey
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Default Ever heard an exotic high-dollar turntable playing LP's? Hugedifference? No?

In article >, Trevor > wrote:
>On 9/08/2018 9:04 AM, Pamela wrote:
>> I've never understood this properly but on a linear arm turntable,
>> wouldn't there still be a lateral force experienced by the stylus
>> (which some sensor then picks up and activates the arm servo)?

>
>Of course. Should be no more than with any other turntable/arm combo though.


My arm has an anti-skate mechanism that adds adjustable amount of lateral
force to keep the stylus centered perfectly in the groove. You can't do
that with a linear-tracking arm... the inner edge of the groove -has- to
have more force on it in order to push the arm down the support rod. (The
servo control reduces the amount of force needed but it just helps what is
already there).

>> Isn't that lateral force going to introduce at least some audio
>> distortion?

>
>The lateral force by itself should not introduce very much distortion,
>and no more than any other turntable (probably less). It's an
>unavoidable consequence of dragging a rock through vinyl. What you do
>gain is the stylus is always at the proper angle to the groove, or so
>close as makes no difference. Whether you introduce other problems
>though is another matter. Funny though that some people forget the lathe
>cutter head suffers from these same problems and is already embedded on
>the disc. :-)


The lathe cutter is driven mechanically by a leadscrew. It is always
centered in the groove because it's making the groove.

With an Edison cylinder, the playback stylus is ALSO moved down the record
by a leadscrew, so with that configuration you CAN get perfect centering.
You can't do that with an LP though, because the pitch varies.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  #44  
Old August 9th 18, 02:11 PM posted to rec.audio.pro
Trevor
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Posts: 2,709
Default Ever heard an exotic high-dollar turntable playing LP's? Hugedifference? No?

On 9/08/2018 10:25 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
> In article >, Trevor > wrote:
>> On 9/08/2018 9:04 AM, Pamela wrote:
>>> I've never understood this properly but on a linear arm turntable,
>>> wouldn't there still be a lateral force experienced by the stylus
>>> (which some sensor then picks up and activates the arm servo)?

>>
>> Of course. Should be no more than with any other turntable/arm combo though.

>
> My arm has an anti-skate mechanism that adds adjustable amount of lateral
> force to keep the stylus centered perfectly in the groove.


You do realise the arm *HAS* to have some force from the groove wall in
order for it to follow the groove and move toward the centre of the
record right? It's NOT telepathic with an alien external force doing the
job for it! :-) The anti-skating mechanism is just to make sure the
forces are of the correct magnitude to provide the desired result.


> You can't do
> that with a linear-tracking arm... the inner edge of the groove -has- to
> have more force on it in order to push the arm down the support rod. (The
> servo control reduces the amount of force needed but it just helps what is
> already there).


Yep, SAME as with a normal arm except there is NO servo to help. In fact
the air bearing linear tracking arms with no servo are very similar to a
standard pivoted arm in that respect.


>
>>> Isn't that lateral force going to introduce at least some audio
>>> distortion?

>>
>> The lateral force by itself should not introduce very much distortion,
>> and no more than any other turntable (probably less). It's an
>> unavoidable consequence of dragging a rock through vinyl. What you do
>> gain is the stylus is always at the proper angle to the groove, or so
>> close as makes no difference. Whether you introduce other problems
>> though is another matter. Funny though that some people forget the lathe
>> cutter head suffers from these same problems and is already embedded on
>> the disc. :-)

>
> The lathe cutter is driven mechanically by a leadscrew. It is always
> centered in the groove because it's making the groove.


Right, and that leadscrew causes no jitter, no "rumble" or any other
groove anomolies right? :-) There are *always* problems, just different
ones, or ones people simply choose to ignore! :-(

  #45  
Old August 9th 18, 05:39 PM posted to rec.audio.pro
Mike Rivers[_2_]
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Posts: 1,964
Default Ever heard an exotic high-dollar turntable playing LP's? Hugedifference? No?

On 8/9/2018 9:11 AM, Trevor wrote:
> There are *always* problems, just different ones, or ones people simply
> choose to ignore! :-(


Not choose to ignore, choose to accept (or for the uninitiated, not
notice). If everyone wanted the highest quality record player, there
would be no cheap record players, and cheap people wouldn't play
records. That's not good.

--

For a good time, call http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com
  #46  
Old August 9th 18, 08:44 PM posted to rec.audio.pro
PStamler
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Posts: 872
Default Ever heard an exotic high-dollar turntable playing LP's? Hugedifference? No?

On Saturday, August 4, 2018 at 6:49:05 PM UTC-5, Trevor wrote:

I am not sure if you think you are telling us something we haven't been
well aware of for the last 2-3 decades?

Good point, but I was mostly writing to show that those of us who collect and use vinyl are under no illusions about its inherent wonderfulness.
  #47  
Old August 9th 18, 10:30 PM posted to rec.audio.pro
geoff
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Default Ever heard an exotic high-dollar turntable playing LP's? Hugedifference? No?

On 10/08/2018 12:20 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
> Ralph Barone > wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for the history lesson Scott. Did anyone ever plot the equivalent of
>> the Fletcher-Munson curves for cocaine?

>
> Not that I can find, and I did a bunch of medline searches a decade ago.
> If anyone knows of any research on how marijuana or cocaine changes hearing
> perception (not research on long-term changes in hearing.. there are plenty
> of those) I'd love to see some.
> --scott
>



I'd guess pot enables (enabled ?) one to hear hidden lyrical meanings
and musical tones and subtle nuances that are really amaaazing. But
possibly not actually there.

Dunno about coke, but if one heard something in some way differently one
probably wouldn't care anyway.

geoff
  #48  
Old August 10th 18, 08:12 AM posted to rec.audio.pro
Trevor
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Default Ever heard an exotic high-dollar turntable playing LP's? Hugedifference? No?

On 10/08/2018 2:39 AM, Mike Rivers wrote:
> On 8/9/2018 9:11 AM, Trevor wrote:
>> There are *always* problems, just different ones, or ones people
>> simply choose to ignore! :-(

>
> Not choose to ignore, choose to accept (or for the uninitiated, not
> notice).


A fairly subtle difference, but fair enough.


> If everyone wanted the highest quality record player, there
> would be no cheap record players, and cheap people wouldn't play
> records. That's not good.


Why not? Less people ruining records on cheap turntables for no logical
reason would be a good thing IMO.
  #49  
Old August 10th 18, 08:35 AM posted to rec.audio.pro
John Williamson
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Default Ever heard an exotic high-dollar turntable playing LP's? Hugedifference? No?

On 10/08/2018 08:12, Trevor wrote:
> On 10/08/2018 2:39 AM, Mike Rivers wrote:


>> If everyone wanted the highest quality record player, there would be
>> no cheap record players, and cheap people wouldn't play records.
>> That's not good.

>
> Why not? Less people ruining records on cheap turntables for no logical
> reason would be a good thing IMO.


Because many people buying records to play on cheap turntables is what
pays for the recording and manufacture. The way the cheapskates then
often go on to buy the same recordings on CD or as an MP3 download, due
to their disappointment with the quality of vinyl playback, is also a
help towards the set up costs.

If only audiophiles bought vinyl, the market would be so small you'd be
paying five or six times the current price for an LP, assuming it was
actually financially worth making them in the first place.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.
  #50  
Old August 10th 18, 10:34 AM posted to rec.audio.pro
Trevor
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Posts: 2,709
Default Ever heard an exotic high-dollar turntable playing LP's? Hugedifference? No?

On 10/08/2018 5:35 PM, John Williamson wrote:
> On 10/08/2018 08:12, Trevor wrote:
>> On 10/08/2018 2:39 AM, Mike Rivers wrote:

>
>>> If everyone wanted the highest quality record player, there would be
>>> no cheap record players, and cheap people wouldn't play records.
>>> That's not good.

>>
>> Why not? Less people ruining records on cheap turntables for no
>> logical reason would be a good thing IMO.

>
> Because many people buying records to play on cheap turntables is what
> pays for the recording and manufacture. The way the cheapskates then
> often go on to buy the same recordings on CD or as an MP3 download, due
> to their disappointment with the quality of vinyl playback, is also a
> help towards the set up costs.
>
> If only audiophiles bought vinyl, the market would be so small you'd be
> paying five or six times the current price for an LP, assuming it was
> actually financially worth making them in the first place.


Since I haven't bought any vinyl for 30 years, I'm hardly worried! :-)
The idea of someone paying 3 or 4 times the price of a CD to play it on
a crappy turntable does amuse me though. :-)


 




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