Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Trevor Trevor is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,820
Default Ever heard an exotic high-dollar turntable playing LP's? Hugedifference? No?

On 9/08/2018 9:04 AM, Pamela wrote:
I've never understood this properly but on a linear arm turntable,
wouldn't there still be a lateral force experienced by the stylus
(which some sensor then picks up and activates the arm servo)?


Of course. Should be no more than with any other turntable/arm combo though.

Isn't that lateral force going to introduce at least some audio
distortion?


The lateral force by itself should not introduce very much distortion,
and no more than any other turntable (probably less). It's an
unavoidable consequence of dragging a rock through vinyl. What you do
gain is the stylus is always at the proper angle to the groove, or so
close as makes no difference. Whether you introduce other problems
though is another matter. Funny though that some people forget the lathe
cutter head suffers from these same problems and is already embedded on
the disc. :-)



  #42   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 16,853
Default Ever heard an exotic high-dollar turntable playing LP's?Huge difference? No?

Ralph Barone wrote:

Thanks for the history lesson Scott. Did anyone ever plot the equivalent of
the Fletcher-Munson curves for cocaine?


Not that I can find, and I did a bunch of medline searches a decade ago.
If anyone knows of any research on how marijuana or cocaine changes hearing
perception (not research on long-term changes in hearing.. there are plenty
of those) I'd love to see some.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  #43   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 16,853
Default Ever heard an exotic high-dollar turntable playing LP's? Hugedifference? No?

In article , Trevor wrote:
On 9/08/2018 9:04 AM, Pamela wrote:
I've never understood this properly but on a linear arm turntable,
wouldn't there still be a lateral force experienced by the stylus
(which some sensor then picks up and activates the arm servo)?


Of course. Should be no more than with any other turntable/arm combo though.


My arm has an anti-skate mechanism that adds adjustable amount of lateral
force to keep the stylus centered perfectly in the groove. You can't do
that with a linear-tracking arm... the inner edge of the groove -has- to
have more force on it in order to push the arm down the support rod. (The
servo control reduces the amount of force needed but it just helps what is
already there).

Isn't that lateral force going to introduce at least some audio
distortion?


The lateral force by itself should not introduce very much distortion,
and no more than any other turntable (probably less). It's an
unavoidable consequence of dragging a rock through vinyl. What you do
gain is the stylus is always at the proper angle to the groove, or so
close as makes no difference. Whether you introduce other problems
though is another matter. Funny though that some people forget the lathe
cutter head suffers from these same problems and is already embedded on
the disc. :-)


The lathe cutter is driven mechanically by a leadscrew. It is always
centered in the groove because it's making the groove.

With an Edison cylinder, the playback stylus is ALSO moved down the record
by a leadscrew, so with that configuration you CAN get perfect centering.
You can't do that with an LP though, because the pitch varies.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  #44   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Trevor Trevor is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,820
Default Ever heard an exotic high-dollar turntable playing LP's? Hugedifference? No?

On 9/08/2018 10:25 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
In article , Trevor wrote:
On 9/08/2018 9:04 AM, Pamela wrote:
I've never understood this properly but on a linear arm turntable,
wouldn't there still be a lateral force experienced by the stylus
(which some sensor then picks up and activates the arm servo)?


Of course. Should be no more than with any other turntable/arm combo though.


My arm has an anti-skate mechanism that adds adjustable amount of lateral
force to keep the stylus centered perfectly in the groove.


You do realise the arm *HAS* to have some force from the groove wall in
order for it to follow the groove and move toward the centre of the
record right? It's NOT telepathic with an alien external force doing the
job for it! :-) The anti-skating mechanism is just to make sure the
forces are of the correct magnitude to provide the desired result.


You can't do
that with a linear-tracking arm... the inner edge of the groove -has- to
have more force on it in order to push the arm down the support rod. (The
servo control reduces the amount of force needed but it just helps what is
already there).


Yep, SAME as with a normal arm except there is NO servo to help. In fact
the air bearing linear tracking arms with no servo are very similar to a
standard pivoted arm in that respect.



Isn't that lateral force going to introduce at least some audio
distortion?


The lateral force by itself should not introduce very much distortion,
and no more than any other turntable (probably less). It's an
unavoidable consequence of dragging a rock through vinyl. What you do
gain is the stylus is always at the proper angle to the groove, or so
close as makes no difference. Whether you introduce other problems
though is another matter. Funny though that some people forget the lathe
cutter head suffers from these same problems and is already embedded on
the disc. :-)


The lathe cutter is driven mechanically by a leadscrew. It is always
centered in the groove because it's making the groove.


Right, and that leadscrew causes no jitter, no "rumble" or any other
groove anomolies right? :-) There are *always* problems, just different
ones, or ones people simply choose to ignore! :-(

  #45   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Mike Rivers[_2_] Mike Rivers[_2_] is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,190
Default Ever heard an exotic high-dollar turntable playing LP's? Hugedifference? No?

On 8/9/2018 9:11 AM, Trevor wrote:
There are *always* problems, just different ones, or ones people simply
choose to ignore! :-(


Not choose to ignore, choose to accept (or for the uninitiated, not
notice). If everyone wanted the highest quality record player, there
would be no cheap record players, and cheap people wouldn't play
records. That's not good.

--

For a good time, call http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com


  #46   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
PStamler PStamler is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 882
Default Ever heard an exotic high-dollar turntable playing LP's? Hugedifference? No?

On Saturday, August 4, 2018 at 6:49:05 PM UTC-5, Trevor wrote:

I am not sure if you think you are telling us something we haven't been
well aware of for the last 2-3 decades?

Good point, but I was mostly writing to show that those of us who collect and use vinyl are under no illusions about its inherent wonderfulness.
  #47   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
geoff geoff is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,812
Default Ever heard an exotic high-dollar turntable playing LP's? Hugedifference? No?

On 10/08/2018 12:20 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Ralph Barone wrote:

Thanks for the history lesson Scott. Did anyone ever plot the equivalent of
the Fletcher-Munson curves for cocaine?


Not that I can find, and I did a bunch of medline searches a decade ago.
If anyone knows of any research on how marijuana or cocaine changes hearing
perception (not research on long-term changes in hearing.. there are plenty
of those) I'd love to see some.
--scott



I'd guess pot enables (enabled ?) one to hear hidden lyrical meanings
and musical tones and subtle nuances that are really amaaazing. But
possibly not actually there.

Dunno about coke, but if one heard something in some way differently one
probably wouldn't care anyway.

geoff
  #48   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Trevor Trevor is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,820
Default Ever heard an exotic high-dollar turntable playing LP's? Hugedifference? No?

On 10/08/2018 2:39 AM, Mike Rivers wrote:
On 8/9/2018 9:11 AM, Trevor wrote:
There are *always* problems, just different ones, or ones people
simply choose to ignore! :-(


Not choose to ignore, choose to accept (or for the uninitiated, not
notice).


A fairly subtle difference, but fair enough.


If everyone wanted the highest quality record player, there
would be no cheap record players, and cheap people wouldn't play
records. That's not good.


Why not? Less people ruining records on cheap turntables for no logical
reason would be a good thing IMO.
  #49   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
John Williamson John Williamson is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,753
Default Ever heard an exotic high-dollar turntable playing LP's? Hugedifference? No?

On 10/08/2018 08:12, Trevor wrote:
On 10/08/2018 2:39 AM, Mike Rivers wrote:


If everyone wanted the highest quality record player, there would be
no cheap record players, and cheap people wouldn't play records.
That's not good.


Why not? Less people ruining records on cheap turntables for no logical
reason would be a good thing IMO.


Because many people buying records to play on cheap turntables is what
pays for the recording and manufacture. The way the cheapskates then
often go on to buy the same recordings on CD or as an MP3 download, due
to their disappointment with the quality of vinyl playback, is also a
help towards the set up costs.

If only audiophiles bought vinyl, the market would be so small you'd be
paying five or six times the current price for an LP, assuming it was
actually financially worth making them in the first place.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.
  #50   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Trevor Trevor is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,820
Default Ever heard an exotic high-dollar turntable playing LP's? Hugedifference? No?

On 10/08/2018 5:35 PM, John Williamson wrote:
On 10/08/2018 08:12, Trevor wrote:
On 10/08/2018 2:39 AM, Mike Rivers wrote:


If everyone wanted the highest quality record player, there would be
no cheap record players, and cheap people wouldn't play records.
That's not good.


Why not? Less people ruining records on cheap turntables for no
logical reason would be a good thing IMO.


Because many people buying records to play on cheap turntables is what
pays for the recording and manufacture. The way the cheapskates then
often go on to buy the same recordings on CD or as an MP3 download, due
to their disappointment with the quality of vinyl playback, is also a
help towards the set up costs.

If only audiophiles bought vinyl, the market would be so small you'd be
paying five or six times the current price for an LP, assuming it was
actually financially worth making them in the first place.


Since I haven't bought any vinyl for 30 years, I'm hardly worried! :-)
The idea of someone paying 3 or 4 times the price of a CD to play it on
a crappy turntable does amuse me though. :-)




  #51   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 16,853
Default Ever heard an exotic high-dollar turntable playing LP's? Hugedifference? No?

John Williamson wrote:

If only audiophiles bought vinyl, the market would be so small you'd be
paying five or six times the current price for an LP, assuming it was
actually financially worth making them in the first place.


Which is what the market was like in the 1990s. It was a very limited
audiophile market, and the only records being pressed were special audiophile
pressings at five or six (or ten) times the current market rate. The
current craze has dropped prices a lot (although there are a lot of pretty
crappy-sounding discs being issued these days which would never have sold in
the 1990s too).
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  #52   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Ty Ford[_2_] Ty Ford[_2_] is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 102
Default Ever heard an exotic high-dollar turntable playing LP's? Hugedifference? No?

On Saturday, August 4, 2018 at 7:49:05 PM UTC-4, Brassplyer wrote:
Ever heard an exotic turntable in action? Do you have one? Do you feel the difference between it and say a correctly set up Technics SL1200MK2 is night and day?


Audio technica makes a line of what I would consider high end cartridges. I'd like to see some sales figures. When I questioned one of their folks about it at NAB, he said, "You have no idea!!!" in a way that made me think they too were surprised by the market. At the top of their line is a $5K USD cartridge. Holy crap!!!

https://www.audio-technica.com/cgi-b...s..pl?lang=eng
  #53   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Les Cargill[_4_] Les Cargill[_4_] is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,383
Default Ever heard an exotic high-dollar turntable playing LP's? Hugedifference? No?

Scott Dorsey wrote:
Ralph Barone wrote:

Thanks for the history lesson Scott. Did anyone ever plot the equivalent of
the Fletcher-Munson curves for cocaine?


Not that I can find, and I did a bunch of medline searches a decade ago.
If anyone knows of any research on how marijuana or cocaine changes hearing
perception (not research on long-term changes in hearing.. there are plenty
of those) I'd love to see some.
--scott


I'd think you could use Don Felder's first solo record as a data source.

--
Les Cargill
  #54   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
gray_wolf gray_wolf is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 38
Default Ever heard an exotic high-dollar turntable playing LP's? Hugedifference? No?

On 8/6/2018 7:18 AM, Phil W wrote:
Trevor:
On 6/08/2018 2:04 AM, John Williamson wrote:
On 05/08/2018 16:40, Don Pearce wrote:
On 5 Aug 2018 10:08:06 -0400, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
Go to a high end show and listen to some of the systems there, they are often
all over the place.Â* Very clean sounding systems next to horribly honky ones.
--scott


Yep, some of them are so good they come up to level about 5% of that
of a cheap CD player.



About as good as a 64kbps mp3 file, then?


Only if you add wow, flutter, rumble, tics, pops, distortion etc. to that MP3
file. Once did that to a 128kbs MP3 to see how many people preferred it to the
CD it was taken from (without telling them what I was playing of course) No
surprise there were a few. :-)


Izotope´s old "Vinyl" plug-in is still around and has even been "renewed"
somehow some years ago... so, there´s also a bit of "vintage digital" for those,
who are mainly after "vintage" whatever...


https://www.izotope.com/en/company/p...cts/vinyl.html

I had thought of using Vinyl to alter some pristine files and call them 'Before'
and name the originals as 'After' and send them to my audio geek buddies to show
off my restoration skills.
I don't think many would figure out how it was done. Never did get around to
doing it though.


  #55   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
geoff geoff is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,812
Default Ever heard an exotic high-dollar turntable playing LP's? Hugedifference? No?

On 30/08/2018 8:28 PM, gray_wolf wrote:
On 8/6/2018 7:18 AM, Phil W wrote:
Trevor:
On 6/08/2018 2:04 AM, John Williamson wrote:
On 05/08/2018 16:40, Don Pearce wrote:
On 5 Aug 2018 10:08:06 -0400, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
Go to a high end show and listen to some of the systems there,
they are often
all over the place.Â* Very clean sounding systems next to horribly
honky ones.
--scott

Yep, some of them are so good they come up to level about 5% of that
of a cheap CD player.


About as good as a 64kbps mp3 file, then?

Only if you add wow, flutter, rumble, tics, pops, distortion etc. to
that MP3 file. Once did that to a 128kbs MP3 to see how many people
preferred it to the CD it was taken from (without telling them what I
was playing of course) No surprise there were a few. :-)


Izotope´s old "Vinyl" plug-in is still around and has even been
"renewed" somehow some years ago... so, there´s also a bit of "vintage
digital" for those, who are mainly after "vintage" whatever...


https://www.izotope.com/en/company/p...cts/vinyl.html


I had thought of using Vinyl to alter some pristine files and call them
'Before' and name the originals as 'After' and send them to my audio
geek buddies to show off my restoration skills.
I don't think many would figure out how it was done. Never did get
around to doing it though.



Well ... I've listened extensively ( a while ago) to Linn LP12, and have
owned Mitchell Focus, Garrard 301/SME plinth+arm, and now have Thorens
something-or-other with SME3 and Audio Technica 30 something-or-other
moving-coil cartridge.

The Garrard was probably least good (probably due to idler-wheel drive),
but was the most lucrative to sell ! The Mitchell was striking (all
sheet-glass).

Comparing CD to LP doesn't seem remotely close on any, possibly due to
different mastering and outroight different media technical media (even
after the LP 'artifacts' are taken into account).

geoff


  #56   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
geoff geoff is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,812
Default Ever heard an exotic high-dollar turntable playing LP's? Hugedifference? No?

On 30/08/2018 11:28 PM, geoff wrote:
On 30/08/2018 8:28 PM, gray_wolf wrote:
On 8/6/2018 7:18 AM, Phil W wrote:
Trevor:
On 6/08/2018 2:04 AM, John Williamson wrote:
On 05/08/2018 16:40, Don Pearce wrote:
On 5 Aug 2018 10:08:06 -0400, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
Go to a high end show and listen to some of the systems there,
they are often
all over the place.Â* Very clean sounding systems next to horribly
honky ones.
--scott

Yep, some of them are so good they come up to level about 5% of that
of a cheap CD player.


About as good as a 64kbps mp3 file, then?

Only if you add wow, flutter, rumble, tics, pops, distortion etc. to
that MP3 file. Once did that to a 128kbs MP3 to see how many people
preferred it to the CD it was taken from (without telling them what
I was playing of course) No surprise there were a few. :-)

Izotope´s old "Vinyl" plug-in is still around and has even been
"renewed" somehow some years ago... so, there´s also a bit of
"vintage digital" for those, who are mainly after "vintage" whatever...


https://www.izotope.com/en/company/p...cts/vinyl.html


I had thought of using Vinyl to alter some pristine files and call
them 'Before' and name the originals as 'After' and send them to my
audio geek buddies to show off my restoration skills.
I don't think many would figure out how it was done. Never did get
around to doing it though.



Well ... I've listened extensively ( a while ago) to Linn LP12, and have
owned Mitchell Focus, Garrard 301/SME plinth+arm, and now have Thorens
something-or-other with SME3 and Audio Technica 30 something-or-other
moving-coil cartridge.

The Garrard was probably least good (probably due to idler-wheel drive),
but was the most lucrative to sell !Â* The Mitchell was striking (all
sheet-glass).

Comparing CD to LP doesn't seem remotely close on any, possibly due to
different mastering and outroight different media technical media (even
after the LP 'artifacts' are taken into account).

geoff



.... but record the LP and play back on CD, and it sound exactly the same
as the LP did.

geoff
Reply
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Phallacy Of High Dollar Cartridges [email protected] Audio Opinions 15 January 16th 09 12:42 PM
Anyone heard this $300K turntable? [email protected] Audio Opinions 92 July 28th 07 11:16 PM
Anyone heard this $300K turntable? [email protected] Pro Audio 99 July 28th 07 11:16 PM
anyone heard of sanyo P5 turntable kiwianalog Tech 8 November 21st 06 01:51 PM
High End Drivers...anyone heard of these? Owl Tech 2 March 25th 05 07:59 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:50 PM.

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 AudioBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about Audio and hi-fi"