Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Les Cargill[_4_] Les Cargill[_4_] is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,383
Default compact mixer of decent quality

geoff wrote:
On 7/07/2014 5:37 a.m., Mike Rivers wrote:
On 7/6/2014 9:11 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
That makes the noise issues even worse!
Now instead of something spewing 60 Hz magnetic fields into your quiet
electronics you have something spewing high frequency magnetic fields
AND electrical fields all over.


As I say too often, improved technology doesn't always make things
better, but it always changes how we make things (including making
things with things that employ the new technology). Music isn't any
better if it's recorded with a DAW than with a mixer and tape deck.



Current state-of-the-folklore seems to be that music must be better if
it's recorded on tape. And played on vinyl ....


geoff



I think tape is actually a reaction to Melodyne and a statement about
workflow. They never went through some of the multitracks that were
available from the Olde Dayes. You'd have need a map to navigate the raw
tracks to "Bohemian Rhapsody" so that's not much an example for
workflow purity.

The vinyl thing? Who knows?

--
Les Cargill
  #42   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Mike Rivers[_2_] Mike Rivers[_2_] is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,190
Default compact mixer of decent quality

On 7/9/2014 7:03 PM, Les Cargill wrote:

I think tape is actually a reaction to Melodyne and a statement about
workflow.


What does Melodyne have to do with tape (or not tape)? It's just another
tool.

They never went through some of the multitracks that were
available from the Olde Dayes. You'd have need a map to navigate the raw
tracks to "Bohemian Rhapsody" so that's not much an example for
workflow purity.


Exactly - they made a map, or more like a matrix, as a guide when
mixing. You might have a tambourine on the trombone track when the brass
section isn't playing. Usually the way that was handled was to split the
track to two mixer channels (there were always more mixer channels than
there were tracks - otherwise how else would you track an orchestra?),
set up level, panning, EQ, and effects for the trombone, the other for
the tambourine, and un-mute the right one at the right place (or else do
the mix over again).

The vinyl thing? Who knows?


The people who love vinyl the most have all partially lost their hearing
and eyesight.


--
For a good time, visit http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com
  #43   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Les Cargill[_4_] Les Cargill[_4_] is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,383
Default compact mixer of decent quality

Mike Rivers wrote:
On 7/9/2014 7:03 PM, Les Cargill wrote:

I think tape is actually a reaction to Melodyne and a statement about
workflow.


What does Melodyne have to do with tape (or not tape)? It's just another
tool.


Melodyne is mentioned in every interview I have read
where people say why they want to use tape.

They never went through some of the multitracks that were
available from the Olde Dayes. You'd have need a map to navigate the raw
tracks to "Bohemian Rhapsody" so that's not much an example for
workflow purity.


Exactly - they made a map, or more like a matrix, as a guide when
mixing. You might have a tambourine on the trombone track when the brass
section isn't playing. Usually the way that was handled was to split the
track to two mixer channels (there were always more mixer channels than
there were tracks - otherwise how else would you track an orchestra?),
set up level, panning, EQ, and effects for the trombone, the other for
the tambourine, and un-mute the right one at the right place (or else do
the mix over again).

The vinyl thing? Who knows?


The people who love vinyl the most have all partially lost their hearing
and eyesight.



--
Les Cargill

  #44   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Mike Rivers[_2_] Mike Rivers[_2_] is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,190
Default compact mixer of decent quality

On 7/10/2014 8:57 AM, Les Cargill wrote:

Melodyne is mentioned in every interview I have read
where people say why they want to use tape.


Every interview? Really? How strange. Melodyne makes a program called
Capstan (quite expensive) that, in some cases, can reduce flutter. Maybe
nutty tape people are buying it and using it when they digitize their
tapes. When I think of Melodyne (as a product) I think of their musical
pitch correction and "Audio DNA" polyphonic editor.

The Plangent process really works and removes both frequency modulation
and amplitude modulation ("scrape flutter"), but it's for people with a
budget for commercial reissues, not for home enjoyment, except for
wealthy audiophiles.





--
For a good time, visit http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com
  #45   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 16,853
Default compact mixer of decent quality

In article , Mike Rivers wrote:
On 7/10/2014 8:57 AM, Les Cargill wrote:

Melodyne is mentioned in every interview I have read
where people say why they want to use tape.


Every interview? Really? How strange. Melodyne makes a program called
Capstan (quite expensive) that, in some cases, can reduce flutter. Maybe
nutty tape people are buying it and using it when they digitize their
tapes. When I think of Melodyne (as a product) I think of their musical
pitch correction and "Audio DNA" polyphonic editor.

The Plangent process really works and removes both frequency modulation
and amplitude modulation ("scrape flutter"), but it's for people with a
budget for commercial reissues, not for home enjoyment, except for
wealthy audiophiles.


The last I heard, the Plangent system didn't work in realtime and was still
based on some heavy Matlab code for the demodulation. It's amazing, though,
the change in sound is considerable. Then again, the blending and blur that
it removes is part of the reason why people still use tape today.

I have never even heard of Melodyne before...
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."


  #46   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Mike Rivers[_2_] Mike Rivers[_2_] is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,190
Default compact mixer of decent quality

On 7/11/2014 9:08 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:

The last I heard, the Plangent system didn't work in realtime and was still
based on some heavy Matlab code for the demodulation. It's amazing, though,
the change in sound is considerable. Then again, the blending and blur that
it removes is part of the reason why people still use tape today.


Obviously it's not a simple task. Celemony's (the company that makes
Melodyne) Capstan program also crunches numbers in its own good time.
It's $4,458 to buy and a 5-day rental for all the flutter you can remove
is $199.

I have never even heard of Melodyne before...


That's what you use when you don't want to use Auto-Tune. It has some
neat tricks when it's smart enough, and the audio is clean enough. You
can run it against a chord, it'll show you all of the notes in the
chord, and you can change the pitch of an individual note, like change a
chord from major to minor. I think PreSonus is bundling a light version
of it with their mixers and audio interfaces now, maybe as part of their
Studio One DAW program.



--
For a good time, visit http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com
  #47   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Les Cargill[_4_] Les Cargill[_4_] is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,383
Default compact mixer of decent quality

Mike Rivers wrote:
On 7/10/2014 8:57 AM, Les Cargill wrote:

Melodyne is mentioned in every interview I have read
where people say why they want to use tape.


Every interview? Really? How strange.


No, small sample size plus somebody I know.

Melodyne makes a program called
Capstan (quite expensive) that, in some cases, can reduce flutter. Maybe
nutty tape people are buying it and using it when they digitize their
tapes. When I think of Melodyne (as a product) I think of their musical
pitch correction and "Audio DNA" polyphonic editor.


So that enables you to "autotune" rhythm, phrasing and duration as
well as pitch. It is to recorded sound what MIDI editing is to just the
notes.


There's a backlash.


The Plangent process really works and removes both frequency modulation
and amplitude modulation ("scrape flutter"), but it's for people with a
budget for commercial reissues, not for home enjoyment, except for
wealthy audiophiles.



For sure.





--
Les Cargill

  #48   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Les Cargill[_4_] Les Cargill[_4_] is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,383
Default compact mixer of decent quality

Scott Dorsey wrote:
In article , Mike Rivers wrote:
On 7/10/2014 8:57 AM, Les Cargill wrote:

Melodyne is mentioned in every interview I have read
where people say why they want to use tape.


Every interview? Really? How strange. Melodyne makes a program called
Capstan (quite expensive) that, in some cases, can reduce flutter. Maybe
nutty tape people are buying it and using it when they digitize their
tapes. When I think of Melodyne (as a product) I think of their musical
pitch correction and "Audio DNA" polyphonic editor.

The Plangent process really works and removes both frequency modulation
and amplitude modulation ("scrape flutter"), but it's for people with a
budget for commercial reissues, not for home enjoyment, except for
wealthy audiophiles.


The last I heard, the Plangent system didn't work in realtime and was still
based on some heavy Matlab code for the demodulation. It's amazing, though,
the change in sound is considerable. Then again, the blending and blur that
it removes is part of the reason why people still use tape today.

I have never even heard of Melodyne before...
--scott



http://www.celemony.com/en/melodyne/what-is-melodyne

--
Les Cargill
  #49   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
William Sommerwerck William Sommerwerck is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,718
Default compact mixer of decent quality

"Les Cargill" wrote in message ...

I have never even heard of Melodyne before...

http://www.celemony.com/en/melodyne/what-is-melodyne


Fascinating. I can't help but think "a German Harry Partch".

One of his points is that everything already exists /as an idea/, even if it
hasn't been physically expressed. (I'd go further and say everything exists
/only/ as an idea, but that's another issue.) When I'm trying to solve a
problem, I keep in mind that, if there's an answer, it already exists. I
cannot actually create anything; I can only discover (dis-cover) it.

When he's asked how it was that he came up with his approach to analysis, he
says he doesn't know. In fact, his work and experiences up to that point had
prepared him to recognize something that (probably) no one else had noticed
before.

  #50   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Sean Conolly Sean Conolly is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 638
Default compact mixer of decent quality

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
...
On 7/11/2014 9:08 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:

The last I heard, the Plangent system didn't work in realtime and was
still
based on some heavy Matlab code for the demodulation. It's amazing,
though,
the change in sound is considerable. Then again, the blending and blur
that
it removes is part of the reason why people still use tape today.


Obviously it's not a simple task. Celemony's (the company that makes
Melodyne) Capstan program also crunches numbers in its own good time. It's
$4,458 to buy and a 5-day rental for all the flutter you can remove is
$199.

I have never even heard of Melodyne before...


That's what you use when you don't want to use Auto-Tune. It has some neat
tricks when it's smart enough, and the audio is clean enough. You can run
it against a chord, it'll show you all of the notes in the chord, and you
can change the pitch of an individual note, like change a chord from major
to minor. I think PreSonus is bundling a light version of it with their
mixers and audio interfaces now, maybe as part of their Studio One DAW
program.


I can see how Melodyne would be very attractive for a project studio doing
demos for people who really need it. I know a young lady who got her parents
to pay for a lot of studio time and ended up with a really nice sounding
demo. But having heard her in person I would have advised that they save
their money - she's a terrible singer and the studio probably used Melodyne
and a lot of time to fix it all up.

Sean




  #51   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Les Cargill[_4_] Les Cargill[_4_] is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,383
Default compact mixer of decent quality

William Sommerwerck wrote:
"Les Cargill" wrote in message ...

I have never even heard of Melodyne before...

http://www.celemony.com/en/melodyne/what-is-melodyne


Fascinating. I can't help but think "a German Harry Partch".


Exactly. Musique concrete. IMO, it's only German because the
plugin business found more of a home there.

Bomb Factory, all that started in the US but did not remain.

One of his points is that everything already exists /as an idea/, even
if it hasn't been physically expressed. (I'd go further and say
everything exists /only/ as an idea, but that's another issue.)


Gets kinda bootstrappey. Skyhook-ey.

When I'm
trying to solve a problem, I keep in mind that, if there's an answer, it
already exists. I cannot actually create anything; I can only discover
(dis-cover) it.


You could possibly build it from scratch but I doubt you have the budget
for it...

When he's asked how it was that he came up with his approach to
analysis, he says he doesn't know. In fact, his work and experiences up
to that point had prepared him to recognize something that (probably) no
one else had noticed before.


It's a phenomenal piece of work but it's caused as much despair as
anything else but that's possibly observer bias on my part.

--
Les Cargill
  #52   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
hank alrich hank alrich is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,736
Default compact mixer of decent quality

Nate Najar wrote:

lets say under $1000 give or take for 4-8 mic channels. I don't need
built in effects or multiple foldback sends. compact, good sound and a
built in power supply are the name of the game.


Have you seen Bob O's comments at PRW regarding him being suprised to
find a well known and well respected classical recordist in Nashville
tracking a large ensemble using a Mackie Onyx? The man said he was
surprised how very good it all sounded.

I'd look at these, personally, if I'm needing to hang with that budget.
Maybe carry an RNP where I needed more preamps.

http://mackie.com/products/onyx1220i/

--
shut up and play your guitar * HankAlrich.Com
HankandShaidriMusic.Com
YouTube.Com/WalkinayMusic
  #53   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
hank alrich hank alrich is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,736
Default compact mixer of decent quality

Mike Rivers wrote:

I agree with you about the external power supply, but I don't understand
why you're having the headroom problem.


I understand that. I meet it often, and sometimes it's more than
operator ignorance. Some of this kit comes with fanciful specs that
don't hold up well under fire. ****ty preamps abound and dialing back
the input sensitivity only goes so far. Wish it were otherwise.

--
shut up and play your guitar * HankAlrich.Com
HankandShaidriMusic.Com
YouTube.Com/WalkinayMusic
  #54   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Trevor Trevor is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,820
Default compact mixer of decent quality


"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
...
On 7/9/2014 2:57 AM, Trevor wrote:
The music going in may not be better, but the audio quality coming out
can
be!


So who cares? Probably the people who don't actually listen to the music.


And those of us that do.

Trevor.


  #55   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Trevor Trevor is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,820
Default compact mixer of decent quality


"Les Cargill" wrote in message
...
Mike Rivers wrote:
What does Melodyne have to do with tape (or not tape)? It's just another
tool.


Melodyne is mentioned in every interview I have read
where people say why they want to use tape.


Just more proof they don't have a clue then.

Trevor.




  #56   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
[email protected] thekmanrocks@gmail.com is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,742
Default compact mixer of decent quality

geoff wrote: "Current state-of-the-folklore seems to be that music must be better if
it's recorded on tape. And played on vinyl .... "


That's because the format intended to supercede those is being used in totally the wrong way.


Plus this: http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/thread...oo-hot.350381/ The title should be amended to include DVD players and cable/sat boxes.
  #57   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Gray_Wolf Gray_Wolf is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 121
Default compact mixer of decent quality

On Sat, 12 Jul 2014 06:00:28 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:

"Les Cargill" wrote in message ...

I have never even heard of Melodyne before...

http://www.celemony.com/en/melodyne/what-is-melodyne


Fascinating. I can't help but think "a German Harry Partch".

One of his points is that everything already exists /as an idea/, even if it
hasn't been physically expressed. (I'd go further and say everything exists
/only/ as an idea, but that's another issue.) When I'm trying to solve a
problem, I keep in mind that, if there's an answer, it already exists. I
cannot actually create anything; I can only discover (dis-cover) it.

When he's asked how it was that he came up with his approach to analysis, he
says he doesn't know. In fact, his work and experiences up to that point had
prepared him to recognize something that (probably) no one else had noticed
before.


Does anyone have an idea how he sorts this stuff out? I have a feeling
basic FFT won't do it.

  #58   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Nate Najar Nate Najar is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 594
Default compact mixer of decent quality

Well ****. That was easy. H pad was just the ticket. Cheap too.
  #59   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Les Cargill[_4_] Les Cargill[_4_] is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,383
Default compact mixer of decent quality

Nate Najar wrote:
Well ****. That was easy. H pad was just the ticket. Cheap too.



See?

--
Les Cargill
  #60   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 16,853
Default compact mixer of decent quality

Nate Najar wrote:
Well ****. That was easy. H pad was just the ticket. Cheap too.


Now get a dozen more, because someday you will need them all.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Reply
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Nakamichi RCA plugs...decent quality? Mesaman High End Audio 11 March 21st 07 11:47 PM
Nakamichi RCA plugs...decent quality? Mesaman Marketplace 0 March 16th 07 02:54 PM
A&H compact mixer series - who uses/has used them? Bernhard Ess Pro Audio 1 March 15th 04 05:04 PM
compact mixer - which one ? StrideR Audio Opinions 1 January 24th 04 05:38 PM
best quality compact mp3 player/recorder? kramer Pro Audio 8 August 31st 03 09:27 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:27 AM.

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 AudioBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about Audio and hi-fi"