I research related topic in the past 6 months posting in this group,
but I still can't find which HU are out there. I been out of car-audio
scene for about 5-6 yrs., and lots of things has change.

Gentlemen, after 6 yrs, my CDX-C910 is dying and I've decided
to replace it with something new and, I hope, better. I recall paying
about $800 or $900 for this unit, and this unit sounded ok while
it last.

My budget this time is $1500, but I'm totally lost which unit sounds
the best for this budget. Excellent SQ is really what I look for.
Maybe you have a better suggestion. I particularly don't like units
with lotsa feature and fancy looks other than the usual R - L balance,
bass & treble adj, and an extra 5th output for Subw. Having 4 volt
outs or higher is a plus. I want unit with no built-in amp to drive
speakers.

Currently, the rest of my gear a

McIntosh mc440 (4 ch)
MB Quart Q series
JL Subw paired with 250w amp made by JL
1 farad cap

........... all connected to a separate Optima battery.




Thank you kindly.

If you want sound quality there is no doubt you should have a unit that
plays DVD-Audio, The sound quality is so much better than CD as there is
more than 5 times the room for the sound files it doesnt need to be
compressed. Eclipse, Kenwood, Panasonic and Pioneer make DVD-Audio units and
these are also with built in screens.
"EddieM" wrote in message
m...
I research related topic in the past 6 months posting in this group,
but I still can't find which HU are out there. I been out of car-audio
scene for about 5-6 yrs., and lots of things has change.

Gentlemen, after 6 yrs, my CDX-C910 is dying and I've decided
to replace it with something new and, I hope, better. I recall paying
about $800 or $900 for this unit, and this unit sounded ok while
it last.

My budget this time is $1500, but I'm totally lost which unit sounds
the best for this budget. Excellent SQ is really what I look for.
Maybe you have a better suggestion. I particularly don't like units
with lotsa feature and fancy looks other than the usual R - L balance,
bass & treble adj, and an extra 5th output for Subw. Having 4 volt
outs or higher is a plus. I want unit with no built-in amp to drive
speakers.

Currently, the rest of my gear a

McIntosh mc440 (4 ch)
MB Quart Q series
JL Subw paired with 250w amp made by JL
1 farad cap

.......... all connected to a separate Optima battery.




Thank you kindly.

I believe that the perfect unit for what you are looking for is the Clarion
DRZ9255. Here's a link http://www.cardomain.com/item/CLADRZ9255


"fred flinstone" wrote in message
news:R4v8e.32639$yV3.27769@clgrps12...
If you want sound quality there is no doubt you should have a unit that
plays DVD-Audio, The sound quality is so much better than CD as there is
more than 5 times the room for the sound files it doesnt need to be
compressed. Eclipse, Kenwood, Panasonic and Pioneer make DVD-Audio units
and
these are also with built in screens.
"EddieM" wrote in message
m...
I research related topic in the past 6 months posting in this group,
but I still can't find which HU are out there. I been out of car-audio
scene for about 5-6 yrs., and lots of things has change.

Gentlemen, after 6 yrs, my CDX-C910 is dying and I've decided
to replace it with something new and, I hope, better. I recall paying
about $800 or $900 for this unit, and this unit sounded ok while
it last.

My budget this time is $1500, but I'm totally lost which unit sounds
the best for this budget. Excellent SQ is really what I look for.
Maybe you have a better suggestion. I particularly don't like units
with lotsa feature and fancy looks other than the usual R - L balance,
bass & treble adj, and an extra 5th output for Subw. Having 4 volt
outs or higher is a plus. I want unit with no built-in amp to drive
speakers.

Currently, the rest of my gear a

McIntosh mc440 (4 ch)
MB Quart Q series
JL Subw paired with 250w amp made by JL
1 farad cap

.......... all connected to a separate Optima battery.




Thank you kindly.

If you want sound quality there is no doubt you should have a unit that
plays DVD-Audio, The sound quality is so much better than CD as there is
more than 5 times the room for the sound files it doesnt need to be
compressed. Eclipse, Kenwood, Panasonic and Pioneer make DVD-Audio units
and these are also with built in screens.

Do you honestly believe you can hear a difference in the car?

"Kirby" wrote in message


I believe that the perfect unit for what you are looking for is the Clarion
DRZ9255. Here's a link http://www.cardomain.com/item/CLADRZ9255



Thanks for this link Kirby ! This model sure is a contender and I'll
definitely check them out from the nearest Clarion dealer. I got
called in to work right now so ... I'll be back later.


Eddie
San Jose, CA

I know for a fact that you can. I have had the Panasonic 909 when it came
out and now have the Pioneer 7500. If you have crap speakers and amps does
it really matter what HU you have? The system is as only good as the weakest
link. I notice this person has higher end speakers and amps and if you have
these items why not go for it, worst case scenario you can play dvd's.
"MZ" wrote in message
...
If you want sound quality there is no doubt you should have a unit that
plays DVD-Audio, The sound quality is so much better than CD as there is
more than 5 times the room for the sound files it doesnt need to be
compressed. Eclipse, Kenwood, Panasonic and Pioneer make DVD-Audio units
and these are also with built in screens.

Do you honestly believe you can hear a difference in the car?

All that money for a headunit!!! tell me whats the point?? I'm sure a
headunit in the price range of 500-600 would sound practically the same!!!

"fred flinstone" wrote in message
news:BRz8e.36817$vt1.4089@edtnps90...
I know for a fact that you can. I have had the Panasonic 909 when it came
out and now have the Pioneer 7500. If you have crap speakers and amps does
it really matter what HU you have? The system is as only good as the
weakest link. I notice this person has higher end speakers and amps and if
you have these items why not go for it, worst case scenario you can play
dvd's.
"MZ" wrote in message
...
If you want sound quality there is no doubt you should have a unit that
plays DVD-Audio, The sound quality is so much better than CD as there is
more than 5 times the room for the sound files it doesnt need to be
compressed. Eclipse, Kenwood, Panasonic and Pioneer make DVD-Audio units
and these are also with built in screens.

Do you honestly believe you can hear a difference in the car?

All that money for a headunit!!! tell me whats the point?? I'm sure a
headunit in the price range of 500-600 would sound practically the same!!!

Practically? No. It WILL sound the same. But that's not what most people
want to hear, so this post will go unnoticed.

Whoa, watch who you're replying to. I never said what you attributed to me.

"John Smith" wrote in message
.. .
Good old CD audio, is NOT compressed. MP3 or WMA is compressed audio.


"MZ" wrote in message
...
The sound quality is so much better than CD as there is more than 5
times
the room for the sound files it doesnt need to be compressed.

Good old CD audio, is NOT compressed. MP3 or WMA is compressed audio.


"MZ" wrote in message
...
The sound quality is so much better than CD as there is more than 5 times
the room for the sound files it doesnt need to be compressed.

"fred flinstone" wrote in message



I know for a fact that you can. I have had the Panasonic 909 when it came out
and now have the Pioneer 7500. If you have crap speakers and amps does it
really matter what HU you have? The system is as only good as the weakest
link. I notice this person has higher end speakers and amps and if you have
these items why not go for it, worst case scenario you can play dvd's.

Hi Fred, thanks for the suggestion but sadly, dvd video is not something I
wish to pursue at this time. I think they're cool though. I'm more into
music
just as much as when home or out on the road.

Yesterday, someone told me to look into some Nak and so, I been eyeing
the model CD 700ll. It got awesome specs, that is, if true.

Here's a look, just click on in-car entertainment:

http://www.nakamichi.com/home.html


Has anyone "heard" this baby?


As I mentioned earlier btw, I had the sony cdx-c910 and it never skip on me
in 6 or 7 years. I like that.

"Yesterday, someone told me to look into some Nak and so, I been eyeing
the model CD 700ll. It got awesome specs, that is, if true."

I was just going to suggest the Nak. I had the CD-700 and liked it a lot.
You mentioned wanting a unit that didn't have a lot of gimmicks...well this
is definitely up your alley. I heard the CD-700II was EXTREMELY hard to
come by though. My understanding is that the differences between the
original and the II are primarly in the transport. The original unit had
some quicks (as did mine) in that it skipped quite a lot and was very picky
when playing CDs with any sort of scratches on them, etc. "Supposedly" the
II solved those problems. But I heard through the grapevine that Nak only
made a few of these and of those few only a handful made their way into the
USA. If you can get your hands on one let us know. I'd be interested to
see how easy (or difficult) it would be for you to acquire one.

Tony


--
2001 Nissan Maxima SE Anniversary Edition
Eclipse CD8454 Head Unit, Phoenix Gold ZX475ti, ZX450 and ZX500 Amplifiers,
Phoenix Gold EQ-232 30-Band EQ, Dynaudio System 360 Tri-Amped In Front and
Focal 130HCs For Rear Fill, 2 Soundstream EXACT10s In Aperiodic Enclosure

2001 Chevy S10 ZR2
Pioneer DEH-P9600MP (Just gettin' started)

"EddieM" wrote in message
m...

"fred flinstone" wrote in message



I know for a fact that you can. I have had the Panasonic 909 when it came
out and now have the Pioneer 7500. If you have crap speakers and amps does
it really matter what HU you have? The system is as only good as the
weakest link. I notice this person has higher end speakers and amps and if
you have these items why not go for it, worst case scenario you can play
dvd's.

Hi Fred, thanks for the suggestion but sadly, dvd video is not something I
wish to pursue at this time. I think they're cool though. I'm more into
music
just as much as when home or out on the road.

Yesterday, someone told me to look into some Nak and so, I been eyeing
the model CD 700ll. It got awesome specs, that is, if true.

Here's a look, just click on in-car entertainment:

http://www.nakamichi.com/home.html


Has anyone "heard" this baby?


As I mentioned earlier btw, I had the sony cdx-c910 and it never skip on
me
in 6 or 7 years. I like that.

"Chris" wrote in message



All that money for a headunit!!! tell me whats the point?? I'm sure a
headunit in the price range of 500-600 would sound practically the same!!!

Hi Chris, there's quite noticeable, discernable diff., at least to me.
I willingly admit that this is most likely due to ear training and familiarity
with my own gear ... which I've been humbly acclimatized listening to
over a period of time. Throw in a different head unit anytime and I will
know if it's a step up or down. With today's high quality HU in car audio,
it's the subtle nuance(s) in detail that I first come to notice differences.
It's not about accuracy but rather more likely unit sounding right or wrong
in combination with the rest of your gear.

How about from the Sony fans in the group, does anyone know any new
models that replace their well-receive C-90 ? It's funny 'cause this
model came out a few months after I bought the cdx-c910 else, I would
have bought it. Oh well, c-90 discontinued now.

"Tony F" wrote in message



"Yesterday, someone told me to look into some Nak and so, I been eyeing
the model CD 700ll. It got awesome specs, that is, if true."

I was just going to suggest the Nak. I had the CD-700 and liked it a lot.
You mentioned wanting a unit that didn't have a lot of gimmicks...well this
is definitely up your alley. I heard the CD-700II was EXTREMELY hard to
come by though. My understanding is that the differences between the
original and the II are primarly in the transport. The original unit had
some quicks (as did mine) in that it skipped quite a lot and was very picky
when playing CDs with any sort of scratches on them, etc. "Supposedly" the
II solved those problems. But I heard through the grapevine that Nak only
made a few of these and of those few only a handful made their way into the
USA. If you can get your hands on one let us know. I'd be interested to
see how easy (or difficult) it would be for you to acquire one.

Tony

Owww! Thanks for telling Tony. I'm gonna make some call tommorow
and I'll report to the group on this model's availability here in Silicon
Valley.

Do you about how much it cost ?

"MZ" wrote in message



Whoa, watch who you're replying to. I never said what you attributed to me.



lol! No harm done. Reputation intact.

EddieM wrote:
"Tony F" wrote in message



"Yesterday, someone told me to look into some Nak and so, I been
eyeing
the model CD 700ll. It got awesome specs, that is, if true."

I was just going to suggest the Nak. I had the CD-700 and liked it
a lot.
You mentioned wanting a unit that didn't have a lot of
gimmicks...well this
is definitely up your alley. I heard the CD-700II was EXTREMELY
hard to
come by though. My understanding is that the differences between
the
original and the II are primarly in the transport. The original
unit had
some quicks (as did mine) in that it skipped quite a lot and was
very picky
when playing CDs with any sort of scratches on them, etc.
"Supposedly" the
II solved those problems. But I heard through the grapevine that
Nak only
made a few of these and of those few only a handful made their way
into the
USA. If you can get your hands on one let us know. I'd be
interested to
see how easy (or difficult) it would be for you to acquire one.

Tony

Owww! Thanks for telling Tony. I'm gonna make some call tommorow
and I'll report to the group on this model's availability here in
Silicon
Valley.

Do you about how much it cost ?

I've seen them brand new for $1700, but like Tony said, they are
difficult to find. One store on the web who has it is Audio Cubes. They
want $2300 for it.

http://www.audiocubes2.com/product/N...e3 0005087d2f

"MZ" wrote in message
...
All that money for a headunit!!! tell me whats the point?? I'm sure a
headunit in the price range of 500-600 would sound practically the
same!!!

Practically? No. It WILL sound the same. But that's not what most
people want to hear, so this post will go unnoticed.




Note the 487K freq responce on the top end.

HAHAHA they "upconvert?" it 96K so the lowpass filter can be higher? But it
will still not read 96K media? What a useless joke!

Chad

"Sm704" wrote
EddieM wrote:



Do you know about how much it cost ?


I've seen them brand new for $1700, but like Tony said, they are
difficult to find. One store on the web who has it is Audio Cubes. They
want $2300 for it.

http://www.audiocubes2.com/product/N...i_CD-700II_CD_
Player.html?osCsid=a437cdac29eb4c1d99f3e30005087d2 f



Yo Sm, yeah I just been calling here about 5 car stereo dealers so far,
and none could get me this Nak HU. One guy told me they don't have
any US distributor. He sounded knowledgeable so it must be true.

Anyway another sales rep. told me about the upcoming Sony HU yet
to be release. This model is CDX-R5515X and it suppose to be
targeting folks into SQ.

Anybody knows more about this ?

"Hi Chris, there's quite noticeable, discernable diff., at least to me....

How about from the Sony fans in the group, does anyone know any new models
that replace their well-receive C-90 ?"

Funny. I have my Eclipse CD8454 now. At only $600 or so it sounds the same
(or better) as my C90 did...which I owned for a couple of years. The
Eclipse has TONS more options for install flexibility, not to mention a
READABLE display in the daytime!! The time alignment alone is worth its
weight in gold, in my opinion.

Tony



--
2001 Nissan Maxima SE Anniversary Edition
Eclipse CD8454 Head Unit, Phoenix Gold ZX475ti, ZX450 and ZX500 Amplifiers,
Phoenix Gold EQ-232 30-Band EQ, Dynaudio System 360 Tri-Amped In Front and
Focal 130HCs For Rear Fill, 2 Soundstream EXACT10s In Aperiodic Enclosure

2001 Chevy S10 ZR2
Pioneer DEH-P9600MP (Just gettin' started)

"I've seen them brand new for $1700, but like Tony said, they are difficult
to find. One store on the web who has it is Audio Cubes. They want $2300 for
it."

That's because it's "high performance"!!! I can't believe they put that in
there! That makes me LAUGH!!

Tony



--
2001 Nissan Maxima SE Anniversary Edition
Eclipse CD8454 Head Unit, Phoenix Gold ZX475ti, ZX450 and ZX500 Amplifiers,
Phoenix Gold EQ-232 30-Band EQ, Dynaudio System 360 Tri-Amped In Front and
Focal 130HCs For Rear Fill, 2 Soundstream EXACT10s In Aperiodic Enclosure

2001 Chevy S10 ZR2
Pioneer DEH-P9600MP (Just gettin' started)

EddieM wrote



I research related topic in the past 6 months posting in this group,
but I still can't find which HU are out there. I been out of car-audio
scene for about 5-6 yrs., and lots of things has change.



Here's an excellent post I found while surfing the net. Likely
helpful to those looking for good quality HU.

[year:2005]

" ...If you want to go for the ultimate though, there are several:
Alpine F#1 Status (7990R) including PXA-H900, Nakamichi
CDA 700 II, Denon HU (forgot its model number). Anything
that has 24 bit/96 kHz DAC, great chassis construction,
no-compromise build quality, high S/N ratio, low THD, high
output voltage, and excellent sound reproduction even by
audiophile standards is usually the best HU out there..."


"... Each company has its flagship HU, just decide which brand
you prefer and go from there. Assuming you have the cash to
buy it... "


Author: Anonymous.

" ...If you want to go for the ultimate though, there are several:
Alpine F#1 Status (7990R) including PXA-H900, Nakamichi
CDA 700 II, Denon HU (forgot its model number). Anything
that has 24 bit/96 kHz DAC, great chassis construction,
no-compromise build quality, high S/N ratio, low THD, high
output voltage, and excellent sound reproduction even by
audiophile standards is usually the best HU out there..."

That only describes virtually every head unit on the market today. HU
preouts have remarkably low THD and high S/N, and since build quality and
the DAC contribute to these two parameters, that's a redundancy. See, the
thing that people either don't realize or intentionally ignore is that the
cheaper units provide specs that either rival or exceed the expensive units.
I have no idea where else people are attributing "SQ" to, if it's not
distortion, freq response measurements, or noise specs. Output voltage is
not essential to sound quality, as most amps can easily accept low output
voltages these days - and the whole 'noise induced in the cables' crap is
too minor to consider.

"MZ" wrote in message
...
" ...If you want to go for the ultimate though, there are several:
Alpine F#1 Status (7990R) including PXA-H900, Nakamichi
CDA 700 II, Denon HU (forgot its model number). Anything
that has 24 bit/96 kHz DAC, great chassis construction,
no-compromise build quality, high S/N ratio, low THD, high
output voltage, and excellent sound reproduction even by
audiophile standards is usually the best HU out there..."

That only describes virtually every head unit on the market today. HU
preouts have remarkably low THD and high S/N, and since build quality and
the DAC contribute to these two parameters, that's a redundancy. See, the
thing that people either don't realize or intentionally ignore is that the
cheaper units provide specs that either rival or exceed the expensive
units.
I have no idea where else people are attributing "SQ" to, if it's not
distortion, freq response measurements, or noise specs. Output voltage is
not essential to sound quality, as most amps can easily accept low output
voltages these days - and the whole 'noise induced in the cables' crap is
too minor to consider.



And to add CD's are still PCM16/44.1 24/96 to me is a waste of money unless
it reads data off of DVD. Now DSP units that run 24/96 is a different story
in my eyes.

Chad

You might find this "listening test" interesting.

http://www.nearfieldaudio.co.uk/foru...opic.php?t=125

Three very respected members of the UK car audio scene give their
impressions of the high end models from Pioneer, Alpine, Clarion, and
Nakamichi.

The actual comments on the results start on page 3 of the thread. Some
preliminary info and background on how the test was conducted is
interspersed in the first 2 pages.

They make a point of saying that this represents their impressions in a
particular setting, not meant to be definitive.

This only thread I've seen that compares all the leading high-end HU's at
the same time in the same setting.

The problem with this test, of course, was that it didn't conform to double
blind testing standards. There was no mention that any attempt was made to
make it a blind test, and by not doing so, subjective tests simply do not
work. In addition, there's no mention that strict controls were implemented
to ensure that signal amplitudes were normalized. Also, it appears that all
the built-in processors were not turned off for all of the tests. All of
this introduces some concerns that are common in subjective tests of this
nature. There's also some question about just how relevant testing is when
done outside of the car, but that's another topic altogether.


"Carl Drake Jr via CarKB.com" wrote in message
...
You might find this "listening test" interesting.

http://www.nearfieldaudio.co.uk/foru...opic.php?t=125

Three very respected members of the UK car audio scene give their
impressions of the high end models from Pioneer, Alpine, Clarion, and
Nakamichi.

The actual comments on the results start on page 3 of the thread. Some
preliminary info and background on how the test was conducted is
interspersed in the first 2 pages.

They make a point of saying that this represents their impressions in a
particular setting, not meant to be definitive.

This only thread I've seen that compares all the leading high-end HU's at
the same time in the same setting.

Quote:
"They make a point of saying that this represents their impressions in a
particular setting, not meant to be definitive."

They made no claims that it was other than their subjective impressions of
the headunits and clearly explained their methodology.
They make no claims to it being anything other than what it was.

It is valid for what it is. The opinions of three respected car audio
enthusiasts.
And that is what the original post asked for, the opinions of others.

Blind tests are interesting exercises but in the end, still boil down to
the opinions of that set of listeners.
How often have I seen replies that say "go listen for yourself".
We all hear differently and have varying opinions of what "sounds good" to
us.

They made no claims that it was other than their subjective impressions of
the headunits and clearly explained their methodology.
They make no claims to it being anything other than what it was.

It is valid for what it is. The opinions of three respected car audio
enthusiasts.
And that is what the original post asked for, the opinions of others.

Right. After reading that thread in its entirety, I felt that it was
necessary to emphasize that it was the opinions of listeners, and not facts.
I think that point is noteworthy.


Blind tests are interesting exercises but in the end, still boil down to
the opinions of that set of listeners.
How often have I seen replies that say "go listen for yourself".
We all hear differently and have varying opinions of what "sounds good" to
us.

Noise averages out. That's essentially the entire concept behind
implementing blind tests to answer a question. The noise, in this case, is
bias. This stems from not just what you think of when you hear the word
bias, but rather an integration of information across several sensory
modalities - you visually see the item, you're aware that this is the one,
and you remember what you may have felt about the item when you listened to
it 10 minutes ago. It isn't just about preconceived notions - it's about
being able to use your other senses to correlate auditory information with
the right stimulus. You've heard the saying that our ears are playing
tricks on us. Indeed, all our senses "play tricks on us", because they're
purposefully trying to generate something useful for us from external
stimuli at the expense of accurate reproduction.

So I'm not bringing up this point as simply nitpicking, or trying to
introduce some sort of loophole or something. I'm bringing this up because
it is absolutely essential to conduct listening tests in a blind environment
so that you can isolate things down to just *hearing*, and remove all the
cognitive crap from the equation. And, while it's true that it's still
based on opinions, nonsense opinions will filter out because you'll no
longer have any cue to correlate your impressions with.

For example, if you think a certain head unit sounds "warmer" than the
others, and I think it sounds "harsh", these are two almost entirely
different opinions of the same piece. But if we listened to two different
head units in a blind test ten times, and you were able to pick out the same
one each time as the "warm" one and I called it the "harsh" one each time,
then although it may be tough to put a finger on exactly what the best way
to characterize them would be, we would at least know that there was indeed
a real difference between them. And the only reason we know this is because
it was a blind test, and that the probability that you'd guess the correct
one 10 times out of 10 is one in a thousand.

I read the comparison thread in its entirety and found it very interesting.
I myself have a theory on comparing just about any new piece of car audio
equipment. I have to own the piece for a period of weeks or months to get a
really good sense of it's sonic capabilities. Then, with the sudden
replacement of a new piece, I am more able to make a comparsion...once again
after the specified time period. I don't like listening to a particular
component for a very brief period of time and making judgements about it,
even when comparing to another.

Which brings me to my next question. I asked this same question several
months ago on rec.audio.car and didn't receive a single reply. If all
modern head units sound very similar (to which I am inclined to agree with),
then when did they NOT sound similar?

I ask this question for this reason. Many years ago (1995?) I owned an
Alpine CDA-7939 head unit. It was their top of the line HU at the time. I
owned it for about a year if I remember correctly. I then purchased an
Eclipse 5303R (1996?) for almost half the price and was BLOWN AWAY by it.
The vocals were incredibly warmer and the separation of the individual
instruments were night and day. With the Eclipse, I could pick apart each
instrument across my dash wheas the Alpine lumped them all together. I
owned the Eclipse for 2-3 years, I can't remember. Then I went out and
bought a 3-way Dynaudio component set (the system 360). The speakers showed
EVERY sonic flaw in the Eclipse that I hadn't heard before through my 6.5"
Diamond Audio component set. I then went out and purchased a Nakamichi
CD-700 (1999?). HOLY crap!! Best damn sound I've ever heard up 'til that
point. Smooooooooooth! As far as staging, it sounded very similar to the
Eclipse I believe. I owned that for at least a year and replaced it with a
Sony CDX-C90 (2001?). VERY nice unit that I cannot say one way or another
if I could tell much differences between it and the Nak, but it had other
ergonomic issues I didn't care for. I currently own an Eclipse CD-8454
(2004) and absolutely love it. I can't say for certain, but I'm fairly sure
I don't really hear a lot of differences between it, the Sony, and the Nak
(thus supporting my belief that modern HUs sound very similar) - which, I
might add, I've recently adopted from several people here on rec.audio.car
that I have a lot of faith in. It's by far the most versatile of the
group, which is the main reason I purchased it.

Anyway...people can tell me what they want, but I definitely heard what I
heard with the aforementioned decks. The more time that went by the less
and less of a difference I heard between the decks each time I switched.
I'd like to attribute this to the fact that the guts inside those units are
fairly similar. So I'm guessing that many years ago decks were FAR from
equal as opposed to today. And that's my thought for the day.

Any thoughts anyone?

Tony


--
2001 Nissan Maxima SE Anniversary Edition
Eclipse CD8454 Head Unit, Phoenix Gold ZX475ti, ZX450 and ZX500 Amplifiers,
Phoenix Gold EQ-232 30-Band EQ, Dynaudio System 360 Tri-Amped In Front and
Focal 130HCs For Rear Fill, 2 Soundstream EXACT10s In Aperiodic Enclosure

2001 Chevy S10 ZR2
Pioneer DEH-P9600MP (Just gettin' started)

See what I mean? Again, I asked the question and not a SINGLE person has
responded!! What's up with that?

Tony


--
2001 Nissan Maxima SE Anniversary Edition
Eclipse CD8454 Head Unit, Phoenix Gold ZX475ti, ZX450 and ZX500 Amplifiers,
Phoenix Gold EQ-232 30-Band EQ, Dynaudio System 360 Tri-Amped In Front and
Focal 130HCs For Rear Fill, 2 Soundstream EXACT10s In Aperiodic Enclosure

2001 Chevy S10 ZR2
Pioneer DEH-P9600MP (Just gettin' started)

See what I mean? Again, I asked the question and not a SINGLE person has
responded!! What's up with that?

What's your question? I don't know what to tell you...

"What's your question? I don't know what to tell you..."

Did my last post not come up? The question is in there somewhere. Here it
is again:


I read the comparison thread in its entirety and found it very interesting.
I myself have a theory on comparing just about any new piece of car audio
equipment. I have to own the piece for a period of weeks or months to get a
really good sense of it's sonic capabilities. Then, with the sudden
replacement of a new piece, I am more able to make a comparsion...once again
after the specified time period. I don't like listening to a particular
component for a very brief period of time and making judgements about it,
even when comparing to another.

Which brings me to my next question. I asked this same question several
months ago on rec.audio.car and didn't receive a single reply. If all
modern head units sound very similar (to which I am inclined to agree with),
then when did they NOT sound similar?

I ask this question for this reason. Many years ago (1995?) I owned an
Alpine CDA-7939 head unit. It was their top of the line HU at the time. I
owned it for about a year if I remember correctly. I then purchased an
Eclipse 5303R (1996?) for almost half the price and was BLOWN AWAY by it.
The vocals were incredibly warmer and the separation of the individual
instruments were night and day. With the Eclipse, I could pick apart each
instrument across my dash wheas the Alpine lumped them all together. I
owned the Eclipse for 2-3 years, I can't remember. Then I went out and
bought a 3-way Dynaudio component set (the system 360). The speakers showed
EVERY sonic flaw in the Eclipse that I hadn't heard before through my 6.5"
Diamond Audio component set. I then went out and purchased a Nakamichi
CD-700 (1999?). HOLY crap!! Best damn sound I've ever heard up 'til that
point. Smooooooooooth! As far as staging, it sounded very similar to the
Eclipse I believe. I owned that for at least a year and replaced it with a
Sony CDX-C90 (2001?). VERY nice unit that I cannot say one way or another
if I could tell much differences between it and the Nak, but it had other
ergonomic issues I didn't care for. I currently own an Eclipse CD-8454
(2004) and absolutely love it. I can't say for certain, but I'm fairly sure
I don't really hear a lot of differences between it, the Sony, and the Nak
(thus supporting my belief that modern HUs sound very similar) - which, I
might add, I've recently adopted from several people here on rec.audio.car
that I have a lot of faith in. It's by far the most versatile of the
group, which is the main reason I purchased it.

Anyway...people can tell me what they want, but I definitely heard what I
heard with the aforementioned decks. The more time that went by the less
and less of a difference I heard between the decks each time I switched.
I'd like to attribute this to the fact that the guts inside those units are
fairly similar. So I'm guessing that many years ago decks were FAR from
equal as opposed to today. And that's my thought for the day.

Any thoughts anyone?

Tony


--
2001 Nissan Maxima SE Anniversary Edition
Eclipse CD8454 Head Unit, Phoenix Gold ZX475ti, ZX450 and ZX500 Amplifiers,
Phoenix Gold EQ-232 30-Band EQ, Dynaudio System 360 Tri-Amped In Front and
Focal 130HCs For Rear Fill, 2 Soundstream EXACT10s In Aperiodic Enclosure

2001 Chevy S10 ZR2
Pioneer DEH-P9600MP (Just gettin' started)

Tony, I got your last post. I don't know what to tell you. Take one head
unit, or amplifier, or whatever out of your vehicle and put another one in
and you'll notice a difference. What's important is what you attribute the
difference to. Your question appears to be asking what the difference can
be attributed to, but there are too many variables to be able to pinpoint
it.

"Tony F" wrote in message
...
"What's your question? I don't know what to tell you..."

Did my last post not come up? The question is in there somewhere. Here
it is again:


I read the comparison thread in its entirety and found it very
interesting.
I myself have a theory on comparing just about any new piece of car audio
equipment. I have to own the piece for a period of weeks or months to get
a
really good sense of it's sonic capabilities. Then, with the sudden
replacement of a new piece, I am more able to make a comparsion...once
again
after the specified time period. I don't like listening to a particular
component for a very brief period of time and making judgements about it,
even when comparing to another.

Which brings me to my next question. I asked this same question several
months ago on rec.audio.car and didn't receive a single reply. If all
modern head units sound very similar (to which I am inclined to agree
with),
then when did they NOT sound similar?

I ask this question for this reason. Many years ago (1995?) I owned an
Alpine CDA-7939 head unit. It was their top of the line HU at the time.
I
owned it for about a year if I remember correctly. I then purchased an
Eclipse 5303R (1996?) for almost half the price and was BLOWN AWAY by it.
The vocals were incredibly warmer and the separation of the individual
instruments were night and day. With the Eclipse, I could pick apart each
instrument across my dash wheas the Alpine lumped them all together. I
owned the Eclipse for 2-3 years, I can't remember. Then I went out and
bought a 3-way Dynaudio component set (the system 360). The speakers
showed
EVERY sonic flaw in the Eclipse that I hadn't heard before through my 6.5"
Diamond Audio component set. I then went out and purchased a Nakamichi
CD-700 (1999?). HOLY crap!! Best damn sound I've ever heard up 'til that
point. Smooooooooooth! As far as staging, it sounded very similar to the
Eclipse I believe. I owned that for at least a year and replaced it with
a
Sony CDX-C90 (2001?). VERY nice unit that I cannot say one way or another
if I could tell much differences between it and the Nak, but it had other
ergonomic issues I didn't care for. I currently own an Eclipse CD-8454
(2004) and absolutely love it. I can't say for certain, but I'm fairly
sure
I don't really hear a lot of differences between it, the Sony, and the Nak
(thus supporting my belief that modern HUs sound very similar) - which, I
might add, I've recently adopted from several people here on rec.audio.car
that I have a lot of faith in. It's by far the most versatile of the
group, which is the main reason I purchased it.

Anyway...people can tell me what they want, but I definitely heard what I
heard with the aforementioned decks. The more time that went by the less
and less of a difference I heard between the decks each time I switched.
I'd like to attribute this to the fact that the guts inside those units
are
fairly similar. So I'm guessing that many years ago decks were FAR from
equal as opposed to today. And that's my thought for the day.

Any thoughts anyone?

Tony


--
2001 Nissan Maxima SE Anniversary Edition
Eclipse CD8454 Head Unit, Phoenix Gold ZX475ti, ZX450 and ZX500
Amplifiers, Phoenix Gold EQ-232 30-Band EQ, Dynaudio System 360 Tri-Amped
In Front and Focal 130HCs For Rear Fill, 2 Soundstream EXACT10s In
Aperiodic Enclosure

2001 Chevy S10 ZR2
Pioneer DEH-P9600MP (Just gettin' started)

Specifically, Mark, what I'm wondering is that if there was a time when HUs
sounded different enough to hear a significant difference. If all
modern-day HUs sound similar, did it always used to be this way?

When I changed from the 7939 to the 5303R I noticed a larger soundstage
where each instrument seemed to be much more clearly defined and focused.
And quite frankly, the Alpine sounded tinny in comparison to the Eclipse. I
had changed nothing in my system other than replace HUs. What can this be
attributed to? Can the D/A converter (or whatever guts inside them) be
responsible for instrument placement? I realize that speaker placement is
the primary factor, but eletroncially speaking, what inside a CD player is
responsible for imaging, if any.

However, it seems that as time goes along I've noticed less and less of a
difference between HUs. Is this becuase the quality of modern electronics
have closed this disparity?

Tony




--
2001 Nissan Maxima SE Anniversary Edition
Eclipse CD8454 Head Unit, Phoenix Gold ZX475ti, ZX450 and ZX500 Amplifiers,
Phoenix Gold EQ-232 30-Band EQ, Dynaudio System 360 Tri-Amped In Front and
Focal 130HCs For Rear Fill, 2 Soundstream EXACT10s In Aperiodic Enclosure

2001 Chevy S10 ZR2
Pioneer DEH-P9600MP (Just gettin' started)

Specifically, Mark, what I'm wondering is that if there was a time when
HUs sounded different enough to hear a significant difference. If all
modern-day HUs sound similar, did it always used to be this way?

Dunno. Never tested the really old ones before. ("Really old" = pre-'95 or
so)


When I changed from the 7939 to the 5303R I noticed a larger soundstage
where each instrument seemed to be much more clearly defined and focused.
And quite frankly, the Alpine sounded tinny in comparison to the Eclipse.
I had changed nothing in my system other than replace HUs. What can this
be attributed to? Can the D/A converter (or whatever guts inside them) be
responsible for instrument placement? I realize that speaker placement is
the primary factor, but eletroncially speaking, what inside a CD player is
responsible for imaging, if any.

There isn't an "imaging" section, of course. But frequency response tends
to have a big impact on it, for example.



However, it seems that as time goes along I've noticed less and less of a
difference between HUs. Is this becuase the quality of modern electronics
have closed this disparity?

I don't know.

"Specifically, Mark, what I'm wondering is that if there was a time when
HUs sounded different enough to hear a significant difference. If all
modern-day HUs sound similar, did it always used to be this way?

Dunno. Never tested the really old ones before. ("Really old" = pre-'95 or
so)"

Besides my own observations, which I mentioned in my last post, I've always
wondered what made benchmark HUs "benchmark". For example, what was it
about the 7909 that led to it's legendary status...at least in terms of its
competition?

Tony


--
2001 Nissan Maxima SE Anniversary Edition
Eclipse CD8454 Head Unit, Phoenix Gold ZX475ti, ZX450 and ZX500 Amplifiers,
Phoenix Gold EQ-232 30-Band EQ, Dynaudio System 360 Tri-Amped In Front and
Focal 130HCs For Rear Fill, 2 Soundstream EXACT10s In Aperiodic Enclosure

2001 Chevy S10 ZR2
Pioneer DEH-P9600MP (Just gettin' started)