Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
#1
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
DR-40 vs. H4n
Anyone have some hands-on time with the DR-40 yet, and if so, how does it
stack up against the Zoom H4n? -- best regards, Neil |
#2
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
DR-40 vs. H4n
On Mar 14, 7:12*pm, "Neil Gould" wrote:
Anyone have some hands-on time with the DR-40 yet, and if so, how does it stack up against the Zoom H4n? This I don't know, but my friend, a pro video shooter who has his FCP cubicle 10 feet from my ProTools cubicle here, had his newish H4 go belly up in the middle of a shoot and wasn't too happy about it. Doesn't plan to replace it with another. |
#3
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
DR-40 vs. H4n
vdubreeze wrote:
On Mar 14, 7:12 pm, "Neil Gould" wrote: Anyone have some hands-on time with the DR-40 yet, and if so, how does it stack up against the Zoom H4n? This I don't know, but my friend, a pro video shooter who has his FCP cubicle 10 feet from my ProTools cubicle here, had his newish H4 go belly up in the middle of a shoot and wasn't too happy about it. Doesn't plan to replace it with another. My Zoom H2n has been terrific and I think it can do more functions than the H4n, believe it or not, for less money. Can do MS, XY, or both in surround sound. Can take external mike and remain in surround recording, using the external to sub for the XY feed. Very flexible programming, very small, and so far flawless. Gary Eickmeier |
#4
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
DR-40 vs. H4n
Gary Eickmeier wrote:
vdubreeze wrote: On Mar 14, 7:12 pm, "Neil Gould" wrote: Anyone have some hands-on time with the DR-40 yet, and if so, how does it stack up against the Zoom H4n? This I don't know, but my friend, a pro video shooter who has his FCP cubicle 10 feet from my ProTools cubicle here, had his newish H4 go belly up in the middle of a shoot and wasn't too happy about it. Doesn't plan to replace it with another. My Zoom H2n has been terrific and I think it can do more functions than the H4n, believe it or not, for less money. Can do MS, XY, or both in surround sound. Can take external mike and remain in surround recording, using the external to sub for the XY feed. Very flexible programming, very small, and so far flawless. They're quite handy little recorders. I've been using one for a few years as a scratchpad for composition and to snag the odd boardmix from a gig. Their mics are not always well-matched. I have found variances on the order of 6 to 8 dB. The one I'm using is very well matched, on the order of a dB difference all around. That's the thing about inexpensive mass production - there's a big dose of random in the recipe. There is very little headroom in the analog input section, so you must be quite careful when using it with external mics or feeding it with line inputs. -- shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/ http://www.youtube.com/walkinaymusic http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri |
#5
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
DR-40 vs. H4n
"hank alrich" wrote in message ... Gary Eickmeier wrote: My Zoom H2n has been terrific and I think it can do more functions than the H4n, believe it or not, for less money. Can do MS, XY, or both in surround sound. Can take external mike and remain in surround recording, using the external to sub for the XY feed. Very flexible programming, very small, and so far flawless. They're quite handy little recorders. I've been using one for a few years as a scratchpad for composition and to snag the odd boardmix from a gig. Their mics are not always well-matched. I have found variances on the order of 6 to 8 dB. The one I'm using is very well matched, on the order of a dB difference all around. That's the thing about inexpensive mass production - there's a big dose of random in the recipe. There is very little headroom in the analog input section, so you must be quite careful when using it with external mics or feeding it with line inputs. I thought the H2n just came out a month or two ago. You may have the H2 - ? Mine seems very smart about AGC. For example, it has three levels of AGC, something like concert, conference, dictation. The concert records relatively loud sounds at reasonable levels without pumping or going over zero. The thing also has limiting rather than full AGC, which is nice. And compression. Just a very flexible little studio in a box. Did I mention that it mounts on a tripod? Gary Eickmeier |
#6
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
DR-40 vs. H4n
On 3/15/2012 7:50 AM, Gary Eickmeier wrote:
Mine seems very smart about AGC. For example, it has three levels of AGC, something like concert, conference, dictation. The concert records relatively loud sounds at reasonable levels without pumping or going over zero. A big difference between the H2 and the H2n is that the H2 had a 3-position input attenuator switch for the mic input (only - it doesn't work on the external line input). If you keep the record level setting above 100 on the 0-128 scale (I leave mine at 100) and use the attenuator to keep the level meters on scale you'll avoid clipping. But if you have the attenuator set too low and have to bring the level down below 100 to keep the meters on scale, you'll get clipping right at the analog input stage. This was a problem with many first generation handheld recorders, not just the Zoom. The record level control on the H2n (and the H4n as well) reduces the analog input gain so that you can put any reasonable level into the external mic or line inputs and not have clipping as long as the meters stay off full scale. I can't seem to get in touch with the marketing rep for the Zoom recorders so I haven't had an H2n in here for review yet, but I hope to shake one loose one of these days and give it a shot. I'd like to see how the new mic arrangement works out in practice. -- "Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge of audio." - John Watkinson http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and interesting audio stuff |
#7
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
DR-40 vs. H4n
Gary Eickmeier wrote:
"hank alrich" wrote in message ... Gary Eickmeier wrote: My Zoom H2n has been terrific and I think it can do more functions than the H4n, believe it or not, for less money. Can do MS, XY, or both in surround sound. Can take external mike and remain in surround recording, using the external to sub for the XY feed. Very flexible programming, very small, and so far flawless. They're quite handy little recorders. I've been using one for a few years as a scratchpad for composition and to snag the odd boardmix from a gig. Their mics are not always well-matched. I have found variances on the order of 6 to 8 dB. The one I'm using is very well matched, on the order of a dB difference all around. That's the thing about inexpensive mass production - there's a big dose of random in the recipe. There is very little headroom in the analog input section, so you must be quite careful when using it with external mics or feeding it with line inputs. I thought the H2n just came out a month or two ago. You may have the H2 - ? Mine seems very smart about AGC. For example, it has three levels of AGC, something like concert, conference, dictation. The concert records relatively loud sounds at reasonable levels without pumping or going over zero. The thing also has limiting rather than full AGC, which is nice. And compression. Just a very flexible little studio in a box. Did I mention that it mounts on a tripod? Gary Eickmeier Yes, I have the H-2. AGC is not something I can use, nor is any of the limiting or compression of use to me. I want to capture all the dynamics and then deal with dynamic range in post. My approach is to leave loads of headroom, so as not to clip the analog stage. The other thing to realize is that all those "effects" happen in the digital domain. The signal gets there through the analog sections, and that's where one must take care to avoid overdriving the inputs. -- shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/ http://www.youtube.com/walkinaymusic http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri |
#8
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
DR-40 vs. H4n
On Wed, 14 Mar 2012 16:41:01 -0700, vdubreeze wrote
(in article ): This I don't know, but my friend, a pro video shooter who has his FCP cubicle 10 feet from my ProTools cubicle here, had his newish H4 go belly up in the middle of a shoot... ------------------------------snip------------------------------ No "pro video shooter" should be relying on something like a Zoom H4 for anything but a very casual backup, in my opinion. --MFW |
#9
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
DR-40 vs. H4n
"Marc Wielage" wrote in message .com... On Wed, 14 Mar 2012 16:41:01 -0700, vdubreeze wrote (in article ): This I don't know, but my friend, a pro video shooter who has his FCP cubicle 10 feet from my ProTools cubicle here, had his newish H4 go belly up in the middle of a shoot... ------------------------------snip------------------------------ No "pro video shooter" should be relying on something like a Zoom H4 for anything but a very casual backup, in my opinion. Professional covers a very wide range from wedding video's to Hollywood blockbusters. I wouldn't expect the latter to use a Zoom, but the former might want to use it in conjuction with camera audio, and would be adequate IMO. Trevor. |
#10
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
DR-40 vs. H4n
Marc Wielage writes:
No "pro video shooter" should be relying on something like a Zoom H4 for anything but a very casual backup, in my opinion. Because? |
#11
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
DR-40 vs. H4n
On 3/16/2012 12:35 AM, Marc Wielage wrote:
No "pro video shooter" should be relying on something like a Zoom H4 for anything but a very casual backup, in my opinion. No "pro" should go out without a backup. But you'd be surprised at how many pros are using the H4n. I ran into Frank Fillipetti at the Zoom booth at the NAB show last year or maybe the year before and he's done a lot of nature sound work with his. -- "Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge of audio." - John Watkinson http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and interesting audio stuff |
#12
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
DR-40 vs. H4n
Mike Rivers wrote:
On 3/16/2012 12:35 AM, Marc Wielage wrote: No "pro video shooter" should be relying on something like a Zoom H4 for anything but a very casual backup, in my opinion. No "pro" should go out without a backup. But you'd be surprised at how many pros are using the H4n. I ran into Frank Fillipetti at the Zoom booth at the NAB show last year or maybe the year before and he's done a lot of nature sound work with his. One of the questions that I had about these is the quality of the mic pres used with their internal mics, since doing nature sound work usually requires a lot of gain. I like the feature set of the DR-40, but I was wondering how its preamps compare to the H4n in this regard. Reviews of the DR-40 are not all that enlightening, and it's curious that in all the replies, no one here has anything to say about the DR-40! -- best regards, Neil |
#13
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
DR-40 vs. H4n
On 3/16/2012 9:14 AM, Neil Gould wrote:
One of the questions that I had about these is the quality of the mic pres used with their internal mics, since doing nature sound work usually requires a lot of gain. I like the feature set of the DR-40, but I was wondering how its preamps compare to the H4n in this regard. Why do they always ask about "the preamps?" Or are you planning on using it with external microphones? In an integrated device such as this, you can't separate the mics from the preamps from the converters. The question to ask is "how does it do for recording nature sounds?" And for the answer you'll have to ask a nature lover. Unless you're close to a lion, nature sounds are all quiet stuff, and what you're going to find is that you simply can't get the meters very far up scale when recording. The important thing is how it sounds when amplified to the playback level that you want, which will almost surely be greater than the sound level in nature (because that's human nature ). I suppose that a good test would be to turn the record gain all the way up, start recording, smother it with a pillow, and play back the recording to see what the noise sounds like, maybe with 40 dB of gain applied. Reviews of the DR-40 are not all that enlightening, and it's curious that in all the replies, no one here has anything to say about the DR-40! I've been expecting one to fall into my lap but the guy who has it who wants me to write a review just hasn't gotten together with me yet to hand it over. Looking it over, it seems like a logical competitor to the H4n, though they use the second pair of tracks differently. I don't think you can do 4-track overdubbing on the DR-40, it just gives you the option of recording a second pair of tracks 10 dB lower than the primary pair so you'll have them as backup in case there's an unexpected overload. -- "Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge of audio." - John Watkinson http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and interesting audio stuff |
#14
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
DR-40 vs. H4n
Mxsmanic wrote:
Marc Wielage writes: No "pro video shooter" should be relying on something like a Zoom H4 for anything but a very casual backup, in my opinion. Because? Because in comparison to the tools that are considered professional for video and film sound capture it's not very capable. You're stuck with what it hears from the position of the camera, which is often not what one wishes to hear in relation to the image. You're stuck with the configuration and pattern of the mics, which gives you nothing like the flexibility of a good hyercard or shotgun mic on a boom. You can shoot a wedding with all the ambient sound that will be included, and if you get paid, you can call it "pro", though I doubt that anyone actually makes a living that way. There's a rather large difference between that work and professional audio for film and video. MIke Rivers' comment about Frank Fillipetti using a Zoom for nature sounds shows a genuine pro using it for a specific purpose, but I'd wager Frank isn't using one to capture sound in conjunction with imagery at a scene shooting. -- shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/ http://www.youtube.com/walkinaymusic http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri |
#15
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
DR-40 vs. H4n
Mike Rivers wrote:
On 3/16/2012 9:14 AM, Neil Gould wrote: One of the questions that I had about these is the quality of the mic pres used with their internal mics, since doing nature sound work usually requires a lot of gain. I like the feature set of the DR-40, but I was wondering how its preamps compare to the H4n in this regard. Why do they always ask about "the preamps?" Because that is a frequent source of noise in recorders. Or are you planning on using it with external microphones? That, too, as I figure my mics are better than the built-ins, should the need arise for better quality. In an integrated device such as this, you can't separate the mics from the preamps from the converters. The question to ask is "how does it do for recording nature sounds?" And for the answer you'll have to ask a nature lover. Well... I would rather know whether this unit records nature sounds as well as or better than the H4n, so given that recording nature sounds with these devices might be a common usage, I thought I'd ask here. -- best regards, Neil |
#16
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
DR-40 vs. H4n
On 3/16/2012 11:02 AM, Neil Gould wrote:
Well... I would rather know whether this unit records nature sounds as well as or better than the H4n, so given that recording nature sounds with these devices might be a common usage, I thought I'd ask here. It's unlikely that you'll find anyone here who has tried both of these recorders for nature sounds. But you could be that person. Why don't you buy one of each, take them out on a field trip together, and return the one you like the least, or return both of them if you aren't satisfied with either. Dealers know that there are some things that you just can't evaluate from the literature and the writings of others (mostly unknown "reviewers") and you just have to try them for yourself. -- "Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge of audio." - John Watkinson http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and interesting audio stuff |
#17
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
DR-40 vs. H4n
Mike Rivers wrote:
On 3/16/2012 11:02 AM, Neil Gould wrote: Well... I would rather know whether this unit records nature sounds as well as or better than the H4n, so given that recording nature sounds with these devices might be a common usage, I thought I'd ask here. It's unlikely that you'll find anyone here who has tried both of these recorders for nature sounds. I'd settle for somone who has tried both of these recorders! ;-) Why don't you buy one of each, take them out on a field trip together, and return the one you like the least, or return both of them if you aren't satisfied with either. Dealers know that there are some things that you just can't evaluate from the literature and the writings of others (mostly unknown "reviewers") and you just have to try them for yourself. I was hoping to benefit from the knowledge base that this group represents on most audio topics. And, I really am surprised that this unit hasn't been tried by anyone here, which makes me wonder whether Tascam's reputation has declined. -- best regards, Neil |
#18
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
DR-40 vs. H4n
"Mike Rivers" wrote in message ... On 3/16/2012 9:14 AM, Neil Gould wrote: One of the questions that I had about these is the quality of the mic pres used with their internal mics, since doing nature sound work usually requires a lot of gain. I like the feature set of the DR-40, but I was wondering how its preamps compare to the H4n in this regard. Why do they always ask about "the preamps?" Or are you planning on using it with external microphones? In an integrated device such as this, you can't separate the mics from the preamps from the converters. Don't the XLR mic connectors provide a means to separate the mics from the preamps? http://tascam.com/content/images/uni..._xy_bottom.jpg . Don't the DR-40 separate TRS line input jacks bypass the preamps? |
#19
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
DR-40 vs. H4n
Neil Gould wrote:
Mike Rivers wrote: On 3/16/2012 11:02 AM, Neil Gould wrote: Well... I would rather know whether this unit records nature sounds as well as or better than the H4n, so given that recording nature sounds with these devices might be a common usage, I thought I'd ask here. It's unlikely that you'll find anyone here who has tried both of these recorders for nature sounds. I'd settle for somone who has tried both of these recorders! ;-) Why don't you buy one of each, take them out on a field trip together, and return the one you like the least, or return both of them if you aren't satisfied with either. Dealers know that there are some things that you just can't evaluate from the literature and the writings of others (mostly unknown "reviewers") and you just have to try them for yourself. I was hoping to benefit from the knowledge base that this group represents on most audio topics. And, I really am surprised that this unit hasn't been tried by anyone here, which makes me wonder whether Tascam's reputation has declined. I think not, really, Neil. I think it's more that once someone who isn't a reviewer has one of any make and model that satisfies the requirement for which it was purchased, that person won't pay much attention to what's on the market until the orignial piece either fails or new requirements render it inadequate. I didn't get the H2 for "serious" use, so as long as it works I'll ignore what's new and better, even from Zoom. -- shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/ http://www.youtube.com/walkinaymusic http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri |
#20
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
DR-40 vs. H4n
Neil Gould wrote:
I was hoping to benefit from the knowledge base that this group represents on most audio topics. And, I really am surprised that this unit hasn't been tried by anyone here, which makes me wonder whether Tascam's reputation has declined. How could it decline? "Our customers for the 80-8 are mostly stoned-out guitar players, they would not know what to do with a schematic if we provided it." -- Vice president of TEAC America, 1978 or so --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#21
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
DR-40 vs. H4n
On Mar 16, 8:29*am, Mike Rivers wrote:
Unless you're close to a lion, nature sounds are all quiet stuff, And if you're close to a lion, you shouldn't be thinking about mics and preamps, you should be thinking about getting away. Peace, Paul |
#22
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
DR-40 vs. H4n
On Mar 16, 12:00*pm, "Arny Krueger" wrote:
Don't the DR-40 separate TRS line input jacks bypass the preamps? Probably not. Typically, in semi-pro (and some pro) equipment, the line inputs are balanced pads which are connected to the mic inputs. Peace, Paul |
#23
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
DR-40 vs. H4n
Mike Rivers wrote:
[...] Unless you're close to a lion, nature sounds are all quiet stuff,... Not always: you should hear the wood pigeon that kept hooting down my chimney when I was trying to do sound editing in the room below. -- ~ Adrian Tuddenham ~ (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply) www.poppyrecords.co.uk |
#24
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
DR-40 vs. H4n
On 3/16/2012 12:45 PM, Neil Gould wrote:
I was hoping to benefit from the knowledge base that this group represents on most audio topics. And, I really am surprised that this unit hasn't been tried by anyone here, which makes me wonder whether Tascam's reputation has declined. Oh, I doubt that their rep has declined, it's just those of us who read this newsgroup and post regularly already have our portable recorders and don't need any more at the moment. I guess the last one I had in here was the Sony PCM-M10, and that's been a couple of years ago now. If I get my hands on a DR-40, I have a friend with an H4n that I can compare it to, but I don't know if and when that will come about. Really , since you have a specific requirement, you'll be a better judge than I as to whether it will meet your needs. Have you read anything about it that suggests that it's not a good unit? -- "Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge of audio." - John Watkinson http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and interesting audio stuff |
#25
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
DR-40 vs. H4n
On 3/16/2012 1:00 PM, Arny Krueger wrote:
Don't the XLR mic connectors provide a means to separate the mics from the preamps? Well, yeah, you can use it with alternate mics, and you can measure quiescent noise, and sensitivity at the external connections, but who knows what the sensitivity of the built-in mics is? With the gain all the way up, what's the peak level of a yellow bellied sapsucker at 20 yards? Don't the DR-40 separate TRS line input jacks bypass the preamps? l don't know. I don't have a schematic. Most line inputs on devices that have mic inputs don't bypass the mic inputs. But unless Neal is planning on using an outboard mic preamp too, he's probably interested in the external XLR mic inputs. -- "Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge of audio." - John Watkinson http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and interesting audio stuff |
#26
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
DR-40 vs. H4n
On 3/16/2012 2:27 PM, PStamler wrote:
And if you're close to a lion, you shouldn't be thinking about mics and preamps, you should be thinking about getting away. Sony has a story from a wildlife recordist about (I think) a PCM-D50 that a giraffe swallowed. He wanted to rescue the recordings that were in the memory of the recorder so he followed the giraffe until it came out. It still worked. -- "Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge of audio." - John Watkinson http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and interesting audio stuff |
#27
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
DR-40 vs. H4n
hank alrich writes:
Because in comparison to the tools that are considered professional for video and film sound capture it's not very capable. Considered professional by whom? How does one distinguish unambiguously and consistently between "professional" and "non-professional" equipment? You're stuck with what it hears from the position of the camera, which is often not what one wishes to hear in relation to the image. It is not a camera-mounted unit. You're stuck with the configuration and pattern of the mics, which gives you nothing like the flexibility of a good hyercard or shotgun mic on a boom. Why would a "professional" production unconditionally require that flexibility? You can shoot a wedding with all the ambient sound that will be included, and if you get paid, you can call it "pro", though I doubt that anyone actually makes a living that way. There's a rather large difference between that work and professional audio for film and video. So which is truly professional? Over the years I've only been able to come up with one fully consistent definition for "professional": Something is "professional" if it costs the most you can afford to pay, or more. If it costs less, it's "consumer" or "amateur" gear. Nothing else about the equipment matters. |
#28
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
DR-40 vs. H4n
Mike Rivers wrote:
On 3/16/2012 1:00 PM, Arny Krueger wrote: Don't the DR-40 separate TRS line input jacks bypass the preamps? l don't know. I don't have a schematic. Most line inputs on devices that have mic inputs don't bypass the mic inputs. But unless Neal is planning on using an outboard mic preamp too, he's probably interested in the external XLR mic inputs. I would presume that the line inputs don't pass the preamp on something at this price point. If I were to use an external mic preamp with the DR-40, I'd want it to have S/PDIF inputs, too... -- best regards, Neil |
#29
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
DR-40 vs. H4n
Scott Dorsey wrote:
Neil Gould wrote: I was hoping to benefit from the knowledge base that this group represents on most audio topics. And, I really am surprised that this unit hasn't been tried by anyone here, which makes me wonder whether Tascam's reputation has declined. How could it decline? "Our customers for the 80-8 are mostly stoned-out guitar players, they would not know what to do with a schematic if we provided it." -- Vice president of TEAC America, 1978 or so Good point, if the DR-40 was targetting ex 80-8 users... ;-) -- Neil |
#30
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
DR-40 vs. H4n
Adrian Tuddenham wrote:
Mike Rivers wrote: [...] Unless you're close to a lion, nature sounds are all quiet stuff,... Not always: you should hear the wood pigeon that kept hooting down my chimney when I was trying to do sound editing in the room below. Perhaps a reincarnated, unhappy ex-client? ;-) -- Neil |
#31
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
DR-40 vs. H4n
Mike Rivers wrote:
On 3/16/2012 12:45 PM, Neil Gould wrote: I was hoping to benefit from the knowledge base that this group represents on most audio topics. (...) Really , since you have a specific requirement, you'll be a better judge than I as to whether it will meet your needs. Have you read anything about it that suggests that it's not a good unit? The reviews I've seen so far say things like, "At last! The recorder we've been waiting for! Well, almost." http://transom.org/?p=21768 Which, BTW, is also about the best review of the DR-40 that I've seen to date Its feature set does seem to be aimed at H4n users, which is why I asked here. I think I'll just go ahead and get one. I've certainly spent more money on things that turned out to be less useful. -- best regards, Neil |
#32
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
DR-40 vs. H4n
Mxsmanic wrote:
hank alrich writes: Because in comparison to the tools that are considered professional for video and film sound capture it's not very capable. Considered professional by whom? How does one distinguish unambiguously and consistently between "professional" and "non-professional" equipment? With the Nagra III, you could drop it off a building and it would keep recording, and you could hear it hit and bounce several times on the tape when you played it back afterward, and the tape would not have any audible wow or speed change when this happened. With the modern Nagra V you can do the same thing. It will bounce, and keep going. So which is truly professional? Over the years I've only been able to come up with one fully consistent definition for "professional": Something is "professional" if it costs the most you can afford to pay, or more. If it costs less, it's "consumer" or "amateur" gear. Nothing else about the equipment matters. Professional gear keeps working in the worst possible circumstances, and you don't lose a take because of the equipment. Enough terrible things go wrong in this world without having to worry about the equipment too. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#33
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
DR-40 vs. H4n
On Fri 2012-Mar-16 08:31, hank alrich writes:
No "pro video shooter" should be relying on something like a Zoom H4 for anything but a very casual backup, in my opinion. Because? Because in comparison to the tools that are considered professional ha for video and film sound capture it's not very capable. You're stuck with what it hears from the position of the camera, which is often not what one wishes to hear in relation to the image. You're stuck with the configuration and pattern of the mics, which gives you nothing like the flexibility of a good hypercard or shotgun mic on a boom. INdeed. Have read of a couple guys using them in the bag on a shoot as a backup, or for transcription. ONe use I saw floated was feeding timecode to one input, audio to the other, but don't know how successful that was in actual practice, but did see some mention of it in ramps a few months back. You can shoot a wedding with all the ambient sound that will be included, and if you get paid, you can call it "pro", though I doubt that anyone actually makes a living that way. There's a rather large difference between that work and professional audio for film and video. YEah I know, most guys I know doing wedding videos are photographers just setting up a camera on a tripod and using the audio from the camcorder on the tripod wherever it is. I tried to talk a photog friend back in the midwest into upgrading his kit way back, but he says he got paid anyway g. MIke Rivers' comment about Frank Fillipetti using a Zoom for nature sounds shows a genuine pro using it for a specific purpose, but I'd wager Frank isn't using one to capture sound in conjunction with imagery at a scene shooting. Right, no timecode capability, etc. Again it comes down to use the right tool for the job. Regards, Richard -- | Remove .my.foot for email | via Waldo's Place USA Fidonet-Internet Gateway Site | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own. |
#34
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
DR-40 vs. H4n
Neil Gould wrote:
Adrian Tuddenham wrote: Mike Rivers wrote: [...] Unless you're close to a lion, nature sounds are all quiet stuff,... Not always: you should hear the wood pigeon that kept hooting down my chimney when I was trying to do sound editing in the room below. Perhaps a reincarnated, unhappy ex-client? ;-) Probably the composer whose name was left of the artwork - it kept shouting "Who-who ...whooo!". -- ~ Adrian Tuddenham ~ (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply) www.poppyrecords.co.uk |
#35
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
DR-40 vs. H4n
On Friday, March 16, 2012 7:31:36 AM UTC-4, Mike Rivers wrote:
On 3/16/2012 12:35 AM, Marc Wielage wrote: No "pro video shooter" should be relying on something like a Zoom H4 for anything but a very casual backup, in my opinion. No "pro" should go out without a backup. But you'd be surprised at how many pros are using the H4n. I ran into Frank Fillipetti at the Zoom booth at the NAB show last year or maybe the year before and he's done a lot of nature sound work with his. The person I mentioned bought it for the convenience and quality and just wanted to use it as part of a whole. Wasn't without second option. It sounded more like a quality control issue than anything specific to the model. |
#36
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
DR-40 vs. H4n
Mxsmanic wrote:
hank alrich writes: Because in comparison to the tools that are considered professional for video and film sound capture it's not very capable. Considered professional by whom? People who make their eintire living doing film and video sound work. How does one distinguish unambiguously and consistently between "professional" and "non-professional" equipment? You're stuck with what it hears from the position of the camera, which is often not what one wishes to hear in relation to the image. It is not a camera-mounted unit. Makes no differencem, because if you get close enough to tighten what it's hearing you're in the picture. That, too, is unprofessional. You're stuck with the configuration and pattern of the mics, which gives you nothing like the flexibility of a good hyercard or shotgun mic on a boom. Why would a "professional" production unconditionally require that flexibility? You either know about that kind of work or you don't. You can shoot a wedding with all the ambient sound that will be included, and if you get paid, you can call it "pro", though I doubt that anyone actually makes a living that way. There's a rather large difference between that work and professional audio for film and video. So which is truly professional? Over the years I've only been able to come up with one fully consistent definition for "professional": Something is "professional" if it costs the most you can afford to pay, or more. If it costs less, it's "consumer" or "amateur" gear. Nothing else about the equipment matters. Yor're not talking about what the rest of us are talking about. -- shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/ http://www.youtube.com/walkinaymusic http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri |
#37
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
DR-40 vs. H4n
On 3/16/2012 4:00 PM, Neil Gould wrote:
The reviews I've seen so far say things like, "At last! The recorder we've been waiting for! Well, almost." http://transom.org/?p=21768 That's a pretty comprehensive review. It seems that the reviewer considers the input gain and noise to be pretty significant, and I would think that if it's truly out of the ordinary, it could pose a problem for nature recording. I've found that with most of these recorders, while there's a lot of stuff on the menu, in actual use, you don't need to make changes very often. I've seen that "Peak reduction" mode on another recorder that I reviewed, maybe it was another TASCAM, and I didn't care for it. It's useful if the band (or the woodpecker) continually gets louder, but I think I'd rather live with a momentary overload that doesn't repeat than have my recording level lowered and have it stay there. Give it a try. Buy it from a dealer who will let you return it if it doesn't meet your needs. -- "Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge of audio." - John Watkinson http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and interesting audio stuff |
#38
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
DR-40 vs. H4n
On Mar 16, 2:53*pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
Over the years I've only been able to come up with one fully consistent definition for "professional": Something is "professional" if it costs the most you can afford to pay, or more. If it costs less, it's "consumer" or "amateur" gear. Nothing else about the equipment matters. If it feels in your hands like if the first time it slid off the chair onto the floor it wouldn't survive, it's consumer. And if it costs $100 more to make the same widget sturdy enough to not have to handle like it's made of eggshells no pro is going to think that's $100 stupidly charged. |
#39
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
DR-40 vs. H4n
Scott Dorsey writes:
With the Nagra III, you could drop it off a building and it would keep recording, and you could hear it hit and bounce several times on the tape when you played it back afterward, and the tape would not have any audible wow or speed change when this happened. Nevertheless, I'm sure there are people around who have paid even more for something else and thus consider the Nagra to be "non-professional" equipment. With the modern Nagra V you can do the same thing. It will bounce, and keep going. I like sturdy equipment, although it tends to be expensive (and often overpriced). Professional gear keeps working in the worst possible circumstances, and you don't lose a take because of the equipment. But that's a sliding scale, since "the worse possible circumstances" could be all sorts of things. Maybe the Nagra can tolerate a fall from a building--but does equipment have to be able to tolerate such a fall in order to be "professional"? |
#40
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
DR-40 vs. H4n
hank alrich writes:
People who make their eintire living doing film and video sound work. There is no consensus among these people. You either know about that kind of work or you don't. You haven't answered the question. Yor're not talking about what the rest of us are talking about. You haven't answered the question. I've explained what "professional" really means: it's the best you can afford, or anything beyond what you can afford. Anything less expensive is "amateur" or "consumer." There are no other standards. |