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#1
Posted to rec.audio.tubes
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Liar Liar Pants On Fire Even When He's Dead
From jenkem vendor Walt Bender's site:
"2 channel sound reproduction: "Older is better" could it be true? In the realm of 2-channel audio, the controversial maxim "the older, the better" is usually best literally taken. Science will one day lift the enigma of this prejudiced blanket statement. In opposition to our beloved cultish operation of archaic electronics; stands the internet's army of parochial skeptics, myopic scientists, high-end new gear tout's (not to mention generalized fuss budgets). They predictably and continually criticize the rising value of these seemingly obsolete items. Yes, it's hard to believe. Yes, modern technology is a godsend. It keeps us safe. And up to speed. It delivers multi channel sound effects for todays hi-res, but jittery digital content. But what about traditional 2 channel sound reproduction? Well, things take a fanciful turn. Western Electric, RCA, Marantz, oil caps, wire wound resistors and old spools of solder - in some cases have appreciated faster than gold bullion. But this is not identical to Tulip mania, or the South Sea Bubble. A real reason exists, and to this day maintains. The sound of certain old audio components cannot be surpassed. They just "work", "feel" or "sound" better to our crazy and sensitive human ears. If they did not, prices would not continue to rise. Collector's fervor alone cannot drive prices to the moon like we see! Old audio equipment fills modern needs and wants. It doesn't simply placate the empty slot of a coin collector's dusty binder. Reproductions can at best only approximate or hollowly mimic the detail and tone of originals. Beyond that, the copy, the clone, the reproduction has no intrinsic value. Yet, reproductions do have much of the downside depreciation of "newly made". Simply put - what's old in audio, is part of living history. Antiques were produced at a time when materials were different. Wires and metals were refined in slower ways. They contain varying levels of purity as well as heavier content of natural fibers and elements. Use and age have further conditioned these properties. It is not possible to reproduce this. A single purchase 30yrs ago of an oil capacitor, WE 171C transformer, Marantz 7c, or even piece of cloth wire has surpassed the most esteemed financial instruments. The aforementioned Western Electric 1086 that sold for $300 in 1982, now could easily bring many, many thousands. More importantly, when you buy vintage audio - be it a complete amp or part for a project; you buy to use. Being a functional active entertainment device. Not a static, unimaginative lump of gold under glass. As always good quality, established classic audio is cherished primarily overseas. A truly safe hedge to the falling US dollar, don't you agree?" http://www.hifitown.com/index.php?di...view&page_id=5 |
#2
Posted to rec.audio.tubes
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Liar Liar Pants On Fire Even When He's Dead
Please excuse the top posting reply but older does not mean better. I have worked for 15 years trying to keep old audio gear working. Most of it is solid state and not really old. I do get to work on some really old stuff with vacuum tubes. But anyway, some of the stuff I repair sounds good, and some sounds very un-remarkable or plain awful, and some of the awful stuff is old, tubed and full of good, medium and awful parts. Quad-II amps and the Quad 22 and most other early British hi-fi gear plus Dynaco and much "Olde Junke" is typical. Much of the old gear definately has plenty of crappy parts, such as underwhelming quality of output transformers and poor circuit design. You can see where the bean counters excavated the quality. Any attempt to improve the sound by replacing R & C with better ones does not do very much in most cases. Nobody has ever proven to me that replacing perfectly servicable R & C parts makes any difference to the sound in amplifiers. People like to think such replacements make a difference, but the only difference I detect is the change of attitude in the minds of those who for one irrational reason or another think that the change makes a difference. Such people are allergic to AB comparisons where the one thing they don't want to hear is me telling them their hearing isn't very good because they cannot pick which amp has the expensive silver foil in oil capacitors and which one has the Wima polypropylene film caps which sound marvellous to 95% of everyone else. Anyway, there continues to be a steam of crummy audio junk being made now and this is a continuation of the past when a stream of junk was being made ever since somebody realised there was money to be made by supplying hi-fi gear to ppl entranced by replay of recorded music. I for one sure do not need more than 2 channels, and I don't need to see the people performing the music from a DVD. In fact, the musical experience is best had in a darkened room, preferably when you are young, and by a nice open fire with real logs and real flames, bottle of red, and a fine sheila present and eager to delight your body and hers to the fullest extent possible. Then the music of Bach, Beethoven, Ghershwin, et all come to life and with little regard about jitter, DAC quality, amp quality, speaker leads, brand of caps or tubes, number of channels etc. Patrick Turner. On Jun 9, 1:12*pm, Bret L wrote: *From jenkem vendor Walt Bender's site: "2 channel sound reproduction: "Older is better" could it be true? In the realm of 2-channel audio, the controversial maxim "the older, the better" is usually best literally taken. Science will one day lift the enigma of this prejudiced blanket statement. In opposition to our beloved cultish operation of archaic electronics; stands the internet's army of parochial skeptics, myopic scientists, high-end new gear tout's (not to mention generalized fuss budgets). They predictably and continually criticize the rising value of these seemingly obsolete items. Yes, it's hard to believe. Yes, modern technology is a godsend. It keeps us safe. And up to speed. It delivers multi channel sound effects for todays hi-res, but jittery digital content. But what about traditional 2 channel sound reproduction? Well, things take a fanciful turn. Western Electric, RCA, Marantz, oil caps, wire wound resistors and old spools of solder - in some cases have appreciated faster than gold bullion. But this is not identical to Tulip mania, or the South Sea Bubble. A real reason exists, and to this day maintains. The sound of certain old audio components cannot be surpassed. They just "work", "feel" or "sound" better to our crazy and sensitive human ears. If they did not, prices would not continue to rise. Collector's fervor alone cannot drive prices to the moon like we see! Old audio equipment fills modern needs and wants. It doesn't simply placate the empty slot of a coin collector's dusty binder. Reproductions can at best only approximate or hollowly mimic the detail and tone of originals. Beyond that, the copy, the clone, the reproduction has no intrinsic value. Yet, reproductions do have much of the downside depreciation of "newly made". Simply put - what's old in audio, is part of living history. Antiques were produced at a time when materials were different. Wires and metals were refined in slower ways. They contain varying levels of purity as well as heavier content of natural fibers and elements. Use and age have further conditioned these properties. It is not possible to reproduce this. A single purchase 30yrs ago of an oil capacitor, WE 171C transformer, Marantz 7c, or even piece of cloth wire has surpassed the most esteemed financial instruments. The aforementioned Western Electric 1086 that sold for $300 in 1982, now could easily bring many, many thousands. More importantly, when you buy vintage audio - be it a complete amp or part for a project; you buy to use. Being a functional active entertainment device. Not a static, unimaginative lump of gold under glass. As always good quality, established classic audio is cherished primarily overseas. A truly safe hedge to the falling US dollar, don't you agree?" http://www.hifitown.com/index.php?di...view&page_id=5 |
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