I'm trying out a 421 instead of my usual 57 as a close mic on a thick,
distorted metal guitar track. Is there any special way to mic an amp
with a 421 or should I do it roughly the same way that I would with the
57? I've experimented a little and so far I actually prefer the 57,
which probably means I'm not getting the most out of my setup. Any
suggestions are appreciated...

frankly i prefer 57 on metal gtr, but if you want to use a 421 use it
exactly the same way as a 57. If that don't work experiment some more. I
have also been known to use both side by side (make sure phase is taken care
of). Each mike'll grab a slightly different picture and that combp might be
what your looking for. You could also use one at a distance (about a foot
or so) to change it up a little. Again you got to account for phase.
Bottom line, its the ear of the beholder as always.


"jeffontheleft" wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm trying out a 421 instead of my usual 57 as a close mic on a thick,
distorted metal guitar track. Is there any special way to mic an amp
with a 421 or should I do it roughly the same way that I would with the
57? I've experimented a little and so far I actually prefer the 57,
which probably means I'm not getting the most out of my setup. Any
suggestions are appreciated...

"jeffontheleft" wrote in
oups.com:

I'm trying out a 421 instead of my usual 57 as a close mic on a thick,
distorted metal guitar track. Is there any special way to mic an amp
with a 421 or should I do it roughly the same way that I would with the
57? I've experimented a little and so far I actually prefer the 57,
which probably means I'm not getting the most out of my setup. Any
suggestions are appreciated...



Now, I'm no expert, but i think the 57 is better for a more aggessive sound.
My 421 is better for a fat clean sound, and is not as "bright" and raunchy as
the 57. The 421 is kinder/gentler, warmer, friendlier.

--
Now Go Play!

Craig Ramseur

For rock guitars you can have fun by micing the cab with both the 57 and the
421 at the same distance from the cone and 2 inches apart from each other.
Pan one mic hard left and the other hard right... There will be a small
phase angle shift but not too much to sound strange. It will be likely to be
mono-compatible and it will save some "mono space" for snare and vocals. It
will sound "stereo" because of the phase shift and the different mics you
will be using.
F.

57s and 421s are fairly interchangable, and both great. The difference
is that the 421 has a more extended bottom end and distorts less
easily. Use according to taste.
On an open backed cabinet, I like a 421 in front and a 57 behind
the speaker, phase reversed. Federico's tip works especially well like
this. But watch that phase! I did a song with Davie Allen and the
Arrows where the producer insisted we leave the guitar solo with
intentionally wrong phase. It did sound very cool, but disturbing.
On a closed back cab, I generally prefer the 421. If I want more
distortion I'll push the guitar gear rather than overload the mic, but
it's not wrong either way. Try it all and see what sounds good to your
ears in the context of the song!
Cheers, Rick.

"Craig Ramseur" wrote in message



Now, I'm no expert, but i think the 57 is better for a more aggessive
sound.
My 421 is better for a fat clean sound, and is not as "bright" and raunchy
as
the 57. The 421 is kinder/gentler, warmer, friendlier.


I find mine thin and screechy. Maybe it's borken ....

geoff

In article .com,
jeffontheleft wrote:
I'm trying out a 421 instead of my usual 57 as a close mic on a thick,
distorted metal guitar track. Is there any special way to mic an amp
with a 421 or should I do it roughly the same way that I would with the
57? I've experimented a little and so far I actually prefer the 57,
which probably means I'm not getting the most out of my setup. Any
suggestions are appreciated...

If you like the 57, use the 57. It's got way more of a presence peak,
which is good for some amps and bad for some others.

If there's too much top end, move it toward the edge of the cone. If
there's too little, move it in toward the center. If there's too much
bottom end (how can there EVER be too much bottom end with distorted
guitar?), click the switch from M to S until the bottom end is right.

Sometimes the 57 is the best mike on an amp. Sometimes the 421 is
a lot better. Sometimes the EV635A, which is cheaper than either,
is the win. That's why you need to have a good-sized cabinet of
different mikes because all the instruments are different.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Geoff@work wrote:
"Craig Ramseur" wrote in message

Now, I'm no expert, but i think the 57 is better for a more aggessive
sound.
My 421 is better for a fat clean sound, and is not as "bright" and raunchy
as
the 57. The 421 is kinder/gentler, warmer, friendlier.

I find mine thin and screechy. Maybe it's borken ....

Yes, and the bad news is that the element isn't repairable. This is what
happens when the coil separates from the diaphragm, which is the most common
failure mode on these things. The element is designed to be repairable;
at one time you could pull the diaphragm assembly off and just drop a new
one in place. But Sennheiser won't sell you a new assembly so you have to
replace the whole element for a couple hundred bucks.

If you can't tell any difference in sound on your voice when you go from
the M to the S setting, it's probably time for a new element.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
Geoff@work wrote:
"Craig Ramseur" wrote in message

Now, I'm no expert, but i think the 57 is better for a more aggessive
sound.
My 421 is better for a fat clean sound, and is not as "bright" and
raunchy
as
the 57. The 421 is kinder/gentler, warmer, friendlier.

I find mine thin and screechy. Maybe it's borken ....

Yes, and the bad news is that the element isn't repairable. This is what
happens when the coil separates from the diaphragm, which is the most
common
failure mode on these things. The element is designed to be repairable;
at one time you could pull the diaphragm assembly off and just drop a new
one in place. But Sennheiser won't sell you a new assembly so you have to
replace the whole element for a couple hundred bucks.

Or maybe it's a 421 Mk II -- that thing sounded screechy to me from the
get-go.

Peace,
Paul

On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 17:27:51 -0500, jeffontheleft wrote
(in article .com):

I'm trying out a 421 instead of my usual 57 as a close mic on a thick,
distorted metal guitar track. Is there any special way to mic an amp
with a 421 or should I do it roughly the same way that I would with the
57? I've experimented a little and so far I actually prefer the 57,
which probably means I'm not getting the most out of my setup. Any
suggestions are appreciated...


Is it a 421 Original Recipe or a 421 II?

The 421 II has a +5 dB spike the original doesn't have.

Regards,

Ty Ford


-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com

On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 18:11:34 -0500, rickymix wrote
(in article .com):

57s and 421s are fairly interchangable, and both great. The difference
is that the 421 has a more extended bottom end and distorts less
easily. Use according to taste.
On an open backed cabinet, I like a 421 in front and a 57 behind
the speaker, phase reversed. Federico's tip works especially well like
this. But watch that phase! I did a song with Davie Allen and the
Arrows where the producer insisted we leave the guitar solo with
intentionally wrong phase. It did sound very cool, but disturbing.
On a closed back cab, I generally prefer the 421. If I want more
distortion I'll push the guitar gear rather than overload the mic, but
it's not wrong either way. Try it all and see what sounds good to your
ears in the context of the song!
Cheers, Rick.


While I think about it, there's a Gefell ( I want to say M900) that'll make
your jaw drop when you jam it up to the grille cloth and put it through a
good preamp.

Check my mic review archives for Gefell.

Regards,

Ty Ford


-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com

jeffontheleft wrote:
I'm trying out a 421 instead of my usual 57 as a close mic on a thick,
distorted metal guitar track. Is there any special way to mic an amp
with a 421 or should I do it roughly the same way that I would with the
57? I've experimented a little and so far I actually prefer the 57,
which probably means I'm not getting the most out of my setup. Any
suggestions are appreciated...

I've done just this many times, with great results!

I usually play through a Twin or a Lab L-5, cranked. I use the 421 on a
boom stand. I place the mic about 1-2 out, nearly centered, but aimed a
bit off center (I prefer a bit to the left, as you apparently do).

The other respondents are right that the 421 doesn't have a harsh
hi-end. I like it just as it is, but you might want to EQ it a bit to
bring up the presence.

"Ty Ford" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 17:27:51 -0500, jeffontheleft wrote
(in article .com):

I'm trying out a 421 instead of my usual 57 as a close mic on a thick,
distorted metal guitar track. Is there any special way to mic an amp
with a 421 or should I do it roughly the same way that I would with the
57? I've experimented a little and so far I actually prefer the 57,
which probably means I'm not getting the most out of my setup. Any
suggestions are appreciated...


Is it a 421 Original Recipe or a 421 II?

The 421 II has a +5 dB spike the original doesn't have.

Is was old when I got it 6 years ago. Legends warn off MS ring, etc.

And it's buddy is defintiely broke.

geoff