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#81
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right now i am running an alpine cda 7878 in my car. it has 2 1 bit da converters. the nakamichi, denon and the sony have 24 bit da converters. da converters can make a large difference in sound quality. the next step up would, imo, be an sacd based head unit. has anyone heard of/seen a car head unit with sacd capability? jps -- jpswanberg ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Posted via RealCarAudio.com - The checkmate of the caraudio community. http://www.RealCarAudio.com jpswanberg's Profile: http://www.realcaraudio.com/forums/m...fo&userid=2908 View this thread: http://www.realcaraudio.com/forums/s...threadid=48851 |
#82
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AFAIK, no one makes even a stereo SACD mobile unit let alone a 5.1 piece,
though if anyone would it'll probably be Sony first. Panasonic had a multi-channel DVD-A unit at CES '04, mounted in an Acura TL. The unit is earmarked to be marketed as OEM only, but IF it takes off, the aftermarket shouldn't be too far behind (it's a big if, though; home DVD-A and SACD have been pretty slow sellers, and there you have the proper means of calibrating the multi-channel setup. In a car it's a lot tougher environment, mostly due to space limitations for the equipment itself and inflexibilities and variations with speaker placement from car to car). The multi-channel audio market is pretty weak; stereo is still too compelling a format to throw away. Some of the mastering of multi-channel discs is downright WEIRD-sounding, and often makes no sense other than for some studio guy to say he made it sound "cool". And right now you can't copy the original discs and stay true to the multi-channel format, so even if there were a player on the market, you're stuck using (and abusing) the original content discs. I'd guess it's going to be a while, if ever, before an aftermarket mobile SACD or DVD-A HU shows up. "jpswanberg" wrote in message ... right now i am running an alpine cda 7878 in my car. it has 2 1 bit da converters. the nakamichi, denon and the sony have 24 bit da converters. da converters can make a large difference in sound quality. the next step up would, imo, be an sacd based head unit. has anyone heard of/seen a car head unit with sacd capability? jps -- jpswanberg ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Posted via RealCarAudio.com - The checkmate of the caraudio community. http://www.RealCarAudio.com jpswanberg's Profile: http://www.realcaraudio.com/forums/m...fo&userid=2908 View this thread: http://www.realcaraudio.com/forums/s...threadid=48851 |
#83
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AFAIK, no one makes even a stereo SACD mobile unit let alone a 5.1 piece,
though if anyone would it'll probably be Sony first. Several companies, with Pioneer at the forefront, have already been producing in-dash screens with avaliable decoder boxes allowing them to decode Dolby Digital and even DTS soundtracks in full 5.1 from DVD-Video discs. Seeing as 5.1 channel DTS CDs require only a DTS compatible DVD player and a decoder, they are inherently already compatible with these screen/decoder combinations. It's only a matter of time before DVD-Audio and SACD compatibility become commonplace among high-end units. I'll agree that Sony will probably be the first to jump in, but that has largely to do with the fact that they own the rights to the SACD technology, anyone else who wants to use it needs to license it first. Panasonic had a multi-channel DVD-A unit at CES '04, mounted in an Acura TL. The unit is earmarked to be marketed as OEM only, but IF it takes off DVD-Audio is already standard, OEM equipment in the Acura TL, and has been since the newest version debuted in 2002. It's an amazing sound system comprised of an 8-speaker array which also comes STANDARD with a DTS CD compatible changer complete with decoder. So you'll get DTS-CD compatibility out of the box: http://www.acura.com/models/model_co...asp?module=tl# home DVD-A and SACD have been pretty slow sellers They're having the same problem now they had in the 60s and 70s with Quadrophonic LPs. There were two different versions of Quad LP, and neither system was backward compaitble with the other. Now they've got 5.1-capable CD mediums like SACD, DVD-Audio and DTS-CD and "faux 5.1" formats like HDCD all competeing. None of them is backward compatible with the other, and real high-quality players capable of playing back multiple formats start at around $2,000. In a car it's a lot tougher environment, mostly due to space limitations for the equipment itself and inflexibilities and variations with speaker placement from car to car). I'll agree that proper speaker placement for proper 5.1 reproduction in a car is not easy, but it can be done and the TL is an example of that. As far as packaging goes, it's not so hard anymore. They can squeeze multiple decoders into a box that's less than half the size of a 2-channel car audio amp, and hide it under a seat or in the trunk. The main problems are cost and consumer-interest related, not technology related. The multi-channel audio market is pretty weak; stereo is still too compelling a format to throw away I don't think anyone wants to throw away stereo. The transition from a stereo-bias market to a 5.1-bias market would need to be handled in much the same way the shifting from VHS to DVD has been handled. It's been 7 since DVD was introduced and it's only now that retail stores are really starting to shutdown VHS sales. Some of the mastering of multi-channel discs is downright WEIRD-sounding, and often makes no sense other than for some studio guy to say he made it sound "cool". Agreed, but *every* title does not neccesarily need to be or will be remastered in 5.1. Surround systems are completely capable of reproducing stereo recordings. Hell, some people prefer the original MONO pressing of The Beatle's "White Album" (actually entitled: The Beatles) to the newer vinyl/optical Stereo re-masters. |
#84
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Steve Grauman wrote:
AFAIK, no one makes even a stereo SACD mobile unit let alone a 5.1 piece, though if anyone would it'll probably be Sony first. Several companies, with Pioneer at the forefront, have already been producing in-dash screens with avaliable decoder boxes allowing them to decode Dolby Digital and even DTS soundtracks in full 5.1 from DVD-Video discs. Seeing as 5.1 channel DTS CDs require only a DTS compatible DVD player and a decoder, they are inherently already compatible with these screen/decoder combinations. It's only a matter of time before DVD-Audio and SACD compatibility become commonplace among high-end units. I'll agree that Sony will probably be the first to jump in, but that has largely to do with the fact that they own the rights to the SACD technology, anyone else who wants to use it needs to license it first. Panasonic had a multi-channel DVD-A unit at CES '04, mounted in an Acura TL. The unit is earmarked to be marketed as OEM only, but IF it takes off DVD-Audio is already standard, OEM equipment in the Acura TL, and has been since the newest version debuted in 2002. It's an amazing sound system comprised of an 8-speaker array which also comes STANDARD with a DTS CD compatible changer complete with decoder. So you'll get DTS-CD compatibility out of the box: http://www.acura.com/models/model_co...asp?module=tl# Speaking of which has anyone heard the Levison system in the Lexus. Curious, Levison is synonymous with real high end stuff, just wondered what he can do in a car? |
#85
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"mblocks" wrote in message ... snip The multi-channel audio market is pretty weak; stereo is still too compelling a format to throw away. Some of the mastering of multi-channel discs is downright WEIRD-sounding, and often makes no sense other than for some studio guy to say he made it sound "cool". And right now you can't copy the original discs and stay true to the multi-channel format, so even if there were a player on the market, you're stuck using (and abusing) the original content discs. I'd guess it's going to be a while, if ever, before an aftermarket mobile SACD or DVD-A HU shows up. So, is that Pioneer P7500 unit sitting in my dashboard a mirage? It seems to handle DVD-A, DVD-V, DTS, Dolby Digital, XM, CD, MP3, etc. etc. pretty well right now. dave "jpswanberg" wrote in message ... right now i am running an alpine cda 7878 in my car. it has 2 1 bit da converters. the nakamichi, denon and the sony have 24 bit da converters. da converters can make a large difference in sound quality. the next step up would, imo, be an sacd based head unit. has anyone heard of/seen a car head unit with sacd capability? jps -- jpswanberg ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Posted via RealCarAudio.com - The checkmate of the caraudio community. http://www.RealCarAudio.com jpswanberg's Profile: http://www.realcaraudio.com/forums/m...fo&userid=2908 View this thread: http://www.realcaraudio.com/forums/s...threadid=48851 |
#86
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Speaking of which has anyone heard the Levison system in the Lexus.
Curious, Levison is synonymous with real high end stuff, just wondered what he can do in a car? I've heard both an LS430 and an RX330 equipped with Levinson soud systems. They're fantastic, probably the best sound OEM system I've ever heard, save for maybe the "hi-fi digital" systems in some Porsches. |
#87
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How would the Levinson systems compare to the THX certified systems in the
Lincolns? I've asked this before, but no one's ever responded. I'm very curious...none of the Lincoln dealers around here have had any in-stock. Tony -- What's more likely? That an all-powerful mysterious god created the universe and then decided not to give any proof of his existence? Or, that he simply doesn't exist at all? And that we created him so that we wouldn't have to feel so small and alone. -Eleanor Arroway, Contact "Steve Grauman" wrote in message ... Speaking of which has anyone heard the Levison system in the Lexus. Curious, Levison is synonymous with real high end stuff, just wondered what he can do in a car? I've heard both an LS430 and an RX330 equipped with Levinson soud systems. They're fantastic, probably the best sound OEM system I've ever heard, save for maybe the "hi-fi digital" systems in some Porsches. |
#88
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How would the Levinson systems compare to the THX certified systems in the
Lincolns? I heard the THX system in an LS and liked it quite a bit. The Levinson system, the THX (Lincoln) system, Porche's "hi-fi digital" system, the Bose/Acura system in the TL and the McIntosh system in the 2003 Subaru Outback are all very good, probably the best OEM systems in the world. I've never been overly excited by the Jeep/Infinity or BMW/Harmon Kardon systems I've heard, and the non-Levinson systems in the Lexus cars are OK, but not fantastic. |
#89
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Mark Levinson (the audio guy) has nothing to do with the Lexus. He's no
longer affiliated with the company that he started. That's TOTALLY Harman Kardon's doing. "Andy Weaks" wrote in message ... Speaking of which has anyone heard the Levison system in the Lexus. Curious, Levison is synonymous with real high end stuff, just wondered what he can do in a car? |
#90
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So it takes me a little while to get back here...
"Steve Grauman" wrote in message ... DVD-Audio is already standard, OEM equipment in the Acura TL, and has been since the newest version debuted in 2002. Since Acura's so far an North American phenomenon, the new UA6 TL was introduced late in 2003 as an '04 model. My understanding is that it's a Marysville, OH model for NA consumption only (hence the significance on the date and the implications concerning the introduction of the TL's DVD-A unit), though someone in Japan or other markets can correct me if I'm wrong. I'll agree that proper speaker placement for proper 5.1 reproduction in a car is not easy, but it can be done and the TL is an example of that. As far as packaging goes, it's not so hard anymore. They can squeeze multiple decoders into a box that's less than half the size of a 2-channel car audio amp, and hide it under a seat or in the trunk. The main problems are cost and consumer-interest related, not technology related. I never said audio technology was the problem. However, auto technology (or just plain interior styling, materials and impediments--like seats) does get in the way, especially for the aftermarketeer. Of course you're right in saying it can be done right, but I certainly don't play in the NBA or am a CFO skimming my company's assets into the ground, so I don't think the wonders of multi-channel (if you could call it that) are all that feasible, to repeat what you said about costs. Agreed, but *every* title does not neccesarily need to be or will be remastered in 5.1. Surround systems are completely capable of reproducing stereo recordings. Hell, some people prefer the original MONO pressing of The Beatle's "White Album" (actually entitled: The Beatles) to the newer vinyl/optical Stereo re-masters. Frankly to me, true 5.1 *audio* as it's designed and mastered today makes so little sense given that I don't normally associate listening to a music source from the standpoint of being right in the middle of the stage (though a 3.1 front stage remix with time delay to the rear seems logical, but that's not what I've generally been experiencing while auditioning multi-channel media. Maybe the sales guys need to get better discs...). For movie theater reproduction it's neat and rather convincing, but so far surround-sound music's been a real letdown. BTW, I still prefer the warmth and smoothness of vinyl and a top-notch stylus over CDs, pops and clicks and all... |
#91
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Well, if you're going to cite an AV unit, sure I'll admit it's real. But
aside from Panasonic's DVD-A ONLY unit for the TL, I don't know of any others around at this point...but you're free to enlighten me. "Dave" wrote in message ... "mblocks" wrote in message ... snip The multi-channel audio market is pretty weak; stereo is still too compelling a format to throw away. Some of the mastering of multi-channel discs is downright WEIRD-sounding, and often makes no sense other than for some studio guy to say he made it sound "cool". And right now you can't copy the original discs and stay true to the multi-channel format, so even if there were a player on the market, you're stuck using (and abusing) the original content discs. I'd guess it's going to be a while, if ever, before an aftermarket mobile SACD or DVD-A HU shows up. So, is that Pioneer P7500 unit sitting in my dashboard a mirage? It seems to handle DVD-A, DVD-V, DTS, Dolby Digital, XM, CD, MP3, etc. etc. pretty well right now. dave "jpswanberg" wrote in message ... right now i am running an alpine cda 7878 in my car. it has 2 1 bit da converters. the nakamichi, denon and the sony have 24 bit da converters. da converters can make a large difference in sound quality. the next step up would, imo, be an sacd based head unit. has anyone heard of/seen a car head unit with sacd capability? jps -- jpswanberg ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Posted via RealCarAudio.com - The checkmate of the caraudio community. http://www.RealCarAudio.com jpswanberg's Profile: http://www.realcaraudio.com/forums/m...fo&userid=2908 View this thread: http://www.realcaraudio.com/forums/s...threadid=48851 |
#92
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Since Acura's so far an North American phenomenon, the new UA6 TL was
introduced late in 2003 as an '04 model. My understanding is that it's a Marysville, OH model for NA consumption only (hence the significance on the date and the implications concerning the introduction of the TL's DVD-A unit), though someone in Japan or other markets can correct me if I'm wrong. Acura as a brand-name only exists in North America, but the same cars are also sold elsewhere under the Honda name. The TL is sold in Japan, and is badged as a Legend. The Legend line was dropped from the U.S. in 1995 and with it went the name, but it's carried on elsewhere. And AFAIK, the Legend enjoys the same options our TL gets. I never said audio technology was the problem. However, auto technology (or just plain interior styling, materials and impediments--like seats) does get in the way, especially for the aftermarketeer. I find this to be very flimsy logic. Acura's (Honda's) designers had the ability to design to audio system and it's placement from day 1. Meaning that they had the ability to compensate and adjust for the many factors of an auto interior. And while aftermarket suppliers don;t have this luxury, I'd like to imagine that anyone seriously interested in having proper 5.1 channel reproduction in-car would take the time to make sure that speakers got placed properly. This may create the neccesity for adding kickpanels and making other minor interior modifications, but it's certainly possible. Frankly to me, true 5.1 *audio* as it's designed and mastered today makes so little sense given that I don't normally associate listening to a music source from the standpoint of being right in the middle of the stage This is true. However, 5.1 music is not really marketed at those looking for the most "accurate" sound reproduction. It is marketed at those who enjoy the feeling of "envelopment" afforded them by a true 5.1 channel recording. For movie theater reproduction it's neat and rather convincing, but so far surround-sound music's been a real letdown. I guess it's just a matter of taste. I still prefer my recordings to be in 2.1 (or 3.1 with a center channel) format, for the most part. However, I really like watching concert videos and listening to live recordings in 5.1. It adds a much greater sense of "being there" to the experience. BTW, I still prefer the warmth and smoothness of vinyl and a top-notch stylus over CDs, pops and clicks and all... Don't get me started, I could rant for days. I love vinyl, but just like CDs, it has it's downsides. There are things I prefer about both formats, and that's probably the way it will always be. As a side note, the only records I experince clicking or popping with are those that have been poorly stored and/or handled over the years. I have several from the 60s and 70s that sound very much like brand-new pressings because they've been continually stored in an upright position, never exposed to heavy sunlight or high, constant heat and have been properly cleaned over time. We shouldn't forget that it's a high-maintenence format and that care needs to be taken to preserve the quality of LPs. Steve Grauman |
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