I understand the mic should be about 10 feet up in the air. So, which
mic stand is best for this situation? What to do to prevent this beast
from falling down? For dead center XY, how can it be unobtrusive to
the audience?

bayydogg wrote:
I understand the mic should be about 10 feet up in the air.

Maybe. That's not very high, but in some rooms it might be right.

So, which
mic stand is best for this situation? What to do to prevent this beast
from falling down?

It's easiest to hang them once you know where they should be. But there
are plenty of good stands, from the inexpensive Manfrotto Highboy up to
the heavier Avenger lighting stands, on up to the Starbird boom.

For dead center XY, how can it be unobtrusive to
the audience?

Hanging is about the only way if you truly need to keep sight lines.
One of the nice things about the Jecklin disc is that you can move it
very far forward and it actually is less of a sight problem, even though
it's much larger than just an X-Y pair.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

bayydogg wrote:
I understand the mic should be about 10 feet up in the air.

Maybe. That's not very high, but in some rooms it might be right.

So, which
mic stand is best for this situation? What to do to prevent this beast
from falling down?

It's easiest to hang them once you know where they should be. But there
are plenty of good stands, from the inexpensive Manfrotto Highboy up to
the heavier Avenger lighting stands, on up to the Starbird boom.

For dead center XY, how can it be unobtrusive to
the audience?

Hanging is about the only way if you truly need to keep sight lines.
One of the nice things about the Jecklin disc is that you can move it
very far forward and it actually is less of a sight problem, even though
it's much larger than just an X-Y pair.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Scott Dorsey wrote:

But there are plenty of good stands, from the inexpensive Manfrotto
Highboy up to the heavier Avenger lighting stands, on up to the Starbird
boom.

I liked that Latchlake stand I saw at AES, with a huge ribbon mic, a
Great River MP1-NV and a bowling ball all hanging off of it with no
apparent stress at the stand. Nifty.

Scott Dorsey wrote:

But there are plenty of good stands, from the inexpensive Manfrotto
Highboy up to the heavier Avenger lighting stands, on up to the Starbird
boom.

I liked that Latchlake stand I saw at AES, with a huge ribbon mic, a
Great River MP1-NV and a bowling ball all hanging off of it with no
apparent stress at the stand. Nifty.

On the cheap side, OnStage makes a big boom stand that will go that
high and is fairly stable. I uses toothed wheels in the joints which
will lock tight, but require a bit more effort to get things in the
right place.


On 11 Nov 2004 19:37:25 -0800, (bayydogg)
wrote:

I understand the mic should be about 10 feet up in the air. So, which
mic stand is best for this situation? What to do to prevent this beast
from falling down? For dead center XY, how can it be unobtrusive to
the audience?

Willie K. Yee, M.D. http://users.bestweb.net/~wkyee
Developer of Problem Knowledge Couplers for Psychiatry http://www.pkc.com
Webmaster and Guitarist for the Big Blue Big Band http://www.bigbluebigband.org

On the cheap side, OnStage makes a big boom stand that will go that
high and is fairly stable. I uses toothed wheels in the joints which
will lock tight, but require a bit more effort to get things in the
right place.


On 11 Nov 2004 19:37:25 -0800, (bayydogg)
wrote:

I understand the mic should be about 10 feet up in the air. So, which
mic stand is best for this situation? What to do to prevent this beast
from falling down? For dead center XY, how can it be unobtrusive to
the audience?

Willie K. Yee, M.D. http://users.bestweb.net/~wkyee
Developer of Problem Knowledge Couplers for Psychiatry http://www.pkc.com
Webmaster and Guitarist for the Big Blue Big Band http://www.bigbluebigband.org

(bayydogg) wrote in
om:

I understand the mic should be about 10 feet up in the air. So, which
mic stand is best for this situation? What to do to prevent this beast
from falling down? For dead center XY, how can it be unobtrusive to
the audience?

I use the Shure S15. For unobtrusive, paint it black.

(bayydogg) wrote in
om:

I understand the mic should be about 10 feet up in the air. So, which
mic stand is best for this situation? What to do to prevent this beast
from falling down? For dead center XY, how can it be unobtrusive to
the audience?

I use the Shure S15. For unobtrusive, paint it black.

In article ,
Carey Carlan wrote:
(bayydogg) wrote in
. com:

I understand the mic should be about 10 feet up in the air. So, which
mic stand is best for this situation? What to do to prevent this beast
from falling down? For dead center XY, how can it be unobtrusive to
the audience?

I use the Shure S15. For unobtrusive, paint it black.

Note that the original square-legged S15 has been discontinued, and has
been replaced with a much flimsier tubular aluminum thing (which also weighs
more to carry around).

Wes Dooley is selling the original S15 stand from the same guys who OEMed it
for Shure, and he has it available in black too. It's not cheap at all,
though. But it's a very nice stand for a light mike pair.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

In article ,
Carey Carlan wrote:
(bayydogg) wrote in
. com:

I understand the mic should be about 10 feet up in the air. So, which
mic stand is best for this situation? What to do to prevent this beast
from falling down? For dead center XY, how can it be unobtrusive to
the audience?

I use the Shure S15. For unobtrusive, paint it black.

Note that the original square-legged S15 has been discontinued, and has
been replaced with a much flimsier tubular aluminum thing (which also weighs
more to carry around).

Wes Dooley is selling the original S15 stand from the same guys who OEMed it
for Shure, and he has it available in black too. It's not cheap at all,
though. But it's a very nice stand for a light mike pair.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

In article writes:

I understand the mic should be about 10 feet up in the air. So, which
mic stand is best for this situation?

A lot of people use lighting stands. Look in photo stores.

What to do to prevent this beast from falling down?

Weigh the legs down with sand bags, or shot bags for a more
professional appearance.

For dead center XY, how can it be unobtrusive to the audience?

It won't be. You'll need to deal with people in order to have a happy
gig. You may not be successful.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article writes:

I understand the mic should be about 10 feet up in the air. So, which
mic stand is best for this situation?

A lot of people use lighting stands. Look in photo stores.

What to do to prevent this beast from falling down?

Weigh the legs down with sand bags, or shot bags for a more
professional appearance.

For dead center XY, how can it be unobtrusive to the audience?

It won't be. You'll need to deal with people in order to have a happy
gig. You may not be successful.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

(Scott Dorsey) wrote in message ...
In article ,
Carey Carlan wrote:
(bayydogg) wrote in
. com:

I understand the mic should be about 10 feet up in the air. So, which
mic stand is best for this situation? What to do to prevent this beast
from falling down? For dead center XY, how can it be unobtrusive to
the audience?

I use the Shure S15. For unobtrusive, paint it black.

Note that the original square-legged S15 has been discontinued, and has
been replaced with a much flimsier tubular aluminum thing (which also weighs
more to carry around).

Wes Dooley is selling the original S15 stand from the same guys who OEMed it
for Shure, and he has it available in black too. It's not cheap at all,
though. But it's a very nice stand for a light mike pair.
--scott

The last ones I had from Shure were black, but I was never a big fan
of the S15. The screws strip out after a while, and they are fairly
heavy and not all that rigid. I much prefer Matthews or Manfrotto
lighting stands that I've modified to have the 5/8"/13 threaded tops.
Light, rigid, quick & easy to set up and nice secure knobs. Not cheap,
though.

I agree with Scott, though that hanging the mics is much better all
the way around. You can get them higher, and right over the orchestra
if need be (like for the woodwind section "spot pair", etc.) But
rigging them up is a fair amount of work.

Karl Winkler
Lectrosonics, Inc.
http://www.lectrosonics.com

(Scott Dorsey) wrote in message ...
In article ,
Carey Carlan wrote:
(bayydogg) wrote in
. com:

I understand the mic should be about 10 feet up in the air. So, which
mic stand is best for this situation? What to do to prevent this beast
from falling down? For dead center XY, how can it be unobtrusive to
the audience?

I use the Shure S15. For unobtrusive, paint it black.

Note that the original square-legged S15 has been discontinued, and has
been replaced with a much flimsier tubular aluminum thing (which also weighs
more to carry around).

Wes Dooley is selling the original S15 stand from the same guys who OEMed it
for Shure, and he has it available in black too. It's not cheap at all,
though. But it's a very nice stand for a light mike pair.
--scott

The last ones I had from Shure were black, but I was never a big fan
of the S15. The screws strip out after a while, and they are fairly
heavy and not all that rigid. I much prefer Matthews or Manfrotto
lighting stands that I've modified to have the 5/8"/13 threaded tops.
Light, rigid, quick & easy to set up and nice secure knobs. Not cheap,
though.

I agree with Scott, though that hanging the mics is much better all
the way around. You can get them higher, and right over the orchestra
if need be (like for the woodwind section "spot pair", etc.) But
rigging them up is a fair amount of work.

Karl Winkler
Lectrosonics, Inc.
http://www.lectrosonics.com

Karl Winkler wrote:

The last ones I had from Shure were black, but I was never a big fan
of the S15. The screws strip out after a while, and they are fairly
heavy and not all that rigid. I much prefer Matthews or Manfrotto
lighting stands that I've modified to have the 5/8"/13 threaded tops.
Light, rigid, quick & easy to set up and nice secure knobs. Not cheap,
though.

What he said ;

Check out the Avenger A410B (which could be had for $140 at one point but with all the currency silliness I don't know what they sell for.)

Then you can add a D600BC boom arm and even a 3669 extension (which works better on the boom than it does on the stand IME.)

Karl Winkler wrote:

The last ones I had from Shure were black, but I was never a big fan
of the S15. The screws strip out after a while, and they are fairly
heavy and not all that rigid. I much prefer Matthews or Manfrotto
lighting stands that I've modified to have the 5/8"/13 threaded tops.
Light, rigid, quick & easy to set up and nice secure knobs. Not cheap,
though.

What he said ;

Check out the Avenger A410B (which could be had for $140 at one point but with all the currency silliness I don't know what they sell for.)

Then you can add a D600BC boom arm and even a 3669 extension (which works better on the boom than it does on the stand IME.)

"bayydogg" wrote:
I understand the mic should be about 10 feet up in the air. So, which
mic stand is best for this situation? What to do to prevent this beast
from falling down? For dead center XY, how can it be unobtrusive to
the audience?

Check out the Manfrotto 3363 - 13 ft air damped. Not as tall as the High Boy
(which has been discontinued I believe) but handles heavier mic rigs and
won't come down unexpectedly with a bang. Also invest in sandbags. They are
worth the effort in security.

bobs

Bob Smith
BS Studios
we organize chaos
http://www.bsstudios.com

"bayydogg" wrote:
I understand the mic should be about 10 feet up in the air. So, which
mic stand is best for this situation? What to do to prevent this beast
from falling down? For dead center XY, how can it be unobtrusive to
the audience?

Check out the Manfrotto 3363 - 13 ft air damped. Not as tall as the High Boy
(which has been discontinued I believe) but handles heavier mic rigs and
won't come down unexpectedly with a bang. Also invest in sandbags. They are
worth the effort in security.

bobs

Bob Smith
BS Studios
we organize chaos
http://www.bsstudios.com

Bob Smith wrote:
"bayydogg" wrote:
I understand the mic should be about 10 feet up in the air. So, which
mic stand is best for this situation? What to do to prevent this beast
from falling down? For dead center XY, how can it be unobtrusive to
the audience?

Check out the Manfrotto 3363 - 13 ft air damped. Not as tall as the High Boy
(which has been discontinued I believe) but handles heavier mic rigs and
won't come down unexpectedly with a bang. Also invest in sandbags. They are
worth the effort in security.

13 feet isn't anywhere near tall enough for many halls. I'd sooner go
with one of the crank-ups. They are a lot heavier and take longer to
set up, though.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Bob Smith wrote:
"bayydogg" wrote:
I understand the mic should be about 10 feet up in the air. So, which
mic stand is best for this situation? What to do to prevent this beast
from falling down? For dead center XY, how can it be unobtrusive to
the audience?

Check out the Manfrotto 3363 - 13 ft air damped. Not as tall as the High Boy
(which has been discontinued I believe) but handles heavier mic rigs and
won't come down unexpectedly with a bang. Also invest in sandbags. They are
worth the effort in security.

13 feet isn't anywhere near tall enough for many halls. I'd sooner go
with one of the crank-ups. They are a lot heavier and take longer to
set up, though.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
Bob Smith wrote:
"bayydogg" wrote:
I understand the mic should be about 10 feet up in the air. So, which
mic stand is best for this situation? What to do to prevent this beast
from falling down? For dead center XY, how can it be unobtrusive to
the audience?

Check out the Manfrotto 3363 - 13 ft air damped. Not as tall as the High
Boy
(which has been discontinued I believe) but handles heavier mic rigs and
won't come down unexpectedly with a bang. Also invest in sandbags. They
are
worth the effort in security.

13 feet isn't anywhere near tall enough for many halls. I'd sooner go
with one of the crank-ups. They are a lot heavier and take longer to
set up, though.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

True for the better halls, but sometimes 10-12 feet is all one can get in
the lesser halls (otherwise called multipurpose rooms, usually good for
nothing acoustic). Which crank-ups do you use? I think the lighting folks
have some great stands, though the penalty as you note is weight. For
concerts with lots of kids running around this can be a very good thing.

bobs

Bob Smith
BS Studios
we organize chaos
http://www.bsstudios.com

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
Bob Smith wrote:
"bayydogg" wrote:
I understand the mic should be about 10 feet up in the air. So, which
mic stand is best for this situation? What to do to prevent this beast
from falling down? For dead center XY, how can it be unobtrusive to
the audience?

Check out the Manfrotto 3363 - 13 ft air damped. Not as tall as the High
Boy
(which has been discontinued I believe) but handles heavier mic rigs and
won't come down unexpectedly with a bang. Also invest in sandbags. They
are
worth the effort in security.

13 feet isn't anywhere near tall enough for many halls. I'd sooner go
with one of the crank-ups. They are a lot heavier and take longer to
set up, though.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

True for the better halls, but sometimes 10-12 feet is all one can get in
the lesser halls (otherwise called multipurpose rooms, usually good for
nothing acoustic). Which crank-ups do you use? I think the lighting folks
have some great stands, though the penalty as you note is weight. For
concerts with lots of kids running around this can be a very good thing.

bobs

Bob Smith
BS Studios
we organize chaos
http://www.bsstudios.com

"bayydogg" wrote in message
om...
I understand the mic should be about 10 feet up in the air. So,
which
mic stand is best for this situation? What to do to prevent this
beast
from falling down? For dead center XY, how can it be unobtrusive to
the audience?

Have you considered spaced PZMs? I always check ahead of time to see
if a pair of PZMs on the floor can do the job. If they can, you have
the ultimate in unobtrusivity.

Norm Strong

"bayydogg" wrote in message
om...
I understand the mic should be about 10 feet up in the air. So,
which
mic stand is best for this situation? What to do to prevent this
beast
from falling down? For dead center XY, how can it be unobtrusive to
the audience?

Have you considered spaced PZMs? I always check ahead of time to see
if a pair of PZMs on the floor can do the job. If they can, you have
the ultimate in unobtrusivity.

Norm Strong

Bob Smith wrote:

True for the better halls, but sometimes 10-12 feet is all one can get in
the lesser halls (otherwise called multipurpose rooms, usually good for
nothing acoustic). Which crank-ups do you use? I think the lighting folks
have some great stands, though the penalty as you note is weight. For
concerts with lots of kids running around this can be a very good thing.

I like the Avenger crank-ups, which are also sold by Bogen. But for the
most part I use the Highboy unless I am trying to lift a 77DX or something.
If the Highboy isn't being sold, the Avenger is the next step up.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Bob Smith wrote:

True for the better halls, but sometimes 10-12 feet is all one can get in
the lesser halls (otherwise called multipurpose rooms, usually good for
nothing acoustic). Which crank-ups do you use? I think the lighting folks
have some great stands, though the penalty as you note is weight. For
concerts with lots of kids running around this can be a very good thing.

I like the Avenger crank-ups, which are also sold by Bogen. But for the
most part I use the Highboy unless I am trying to lift a 77DX or something.
If the Highboy isn't being sold, the Avenger is the next step up.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Scott Dorsey wrote:

I like the Avenger crank-ups, which are also sold by Bogen.

Do you have a model number? The only tall crank-ups I can find are things like the B150 (20' lift, holds 154 lbs. but weighs 156 lbs!)


The Avenger A330 is 26'4" (but not a crank-up.) http://www.bogenimaging.us/product/templates/templates.php3?sectionid=148&itemid=417 Holds 66 lbs. (!) weighs a little over 46 lbs.

There's also the Matthews at 25' http://www.msegrip.com/mse.php?show=product&cat=&products_ID=25029 Holds 7 lbs, weighs 37 lbs.



I'll again recommend the Avenger A410B as a general purpose 13' stand http://www.bogenimaging.us/product/templates/templates.php3?sectionid=150&itemid=419 Holds 22 lbs., weighs under 9, has lazy leg for sloping floors & stairs.)

Scott Dorsey wrote:

I like the Avenger crank-ups, which are also sold by Bogen.

Do you have a model number? The only tall crank-ups I can find are things like the B150 (20' lift, holds 154 lbs. but weighs 156 lbs!)


The Avenger A330 is 26'4" (but not a crank-up.) http://www.bogenimaging.us/product/templates/templates.php3?sectionid=148&itemid=417 Holds 66 lbs. (!) weighs a little over 46 lbs.

There's also the Matthews at 25' http://www.msegrip.com/mse.php?show=product&cat=&products_ID=25029 Holds 7 lbs, weighs 37 lbs.



I'll again recommend the Avenger A410B as a general purpose 13' stand http://www.bogenimaging.us/product/templates/templates.php3?sectionid=150&itemid=419 Holds 22 lbs., weighs under 9, has lazy leg for sloping floors & stairs.)

I just attended a concert at a hall I've been to before. Last time I
didn't notice the mic stand right in front dead center because I
wasn't looking for it. This time I did notice because I was looking.
It was chrome and fully extended. The very top leg was leaning.

As it turns out, it was a Shure S15A. After the soundman brought down
the mics, I noticed the stereo mount with the two B&K omni mics on it
was quite heavy. He said he always fears that the stand might fall and
there's no way to secure it, and he's been doing this type of
recording for several decades.

Anyway, I'll probably consider the lighting stand suggestion, then
modify it. I've converted some cheap photo tripods into portable mic
stands, so I know it's not that hard.

He let me hear what he recorded and it sounded excellent (Sony
CDR-W33). Although I didn't hear the soft passages, I know there was
quite a bit of coughing and other sounds in the audience. I'd prefer
to use cardioids facing the stage to limit audience noise. But he had
those omnis pointing straight up (probably doesn't matter if they're
omnis). Anybody have an opinion about cardioid vs omni in live
recordings?

I just attended a concert at a hall I've been to before. Last time I
didn't notice the mic stand right in front dead center because I
wasn't looking for it. This time I did notice because I was looking.
It was chrome and fully extended. The very top leg was leaning.

As it turns out, it was a Shure S15A. After the soundman brought down
the mics, I noticed the stereo mount with the two B&K omni mics on it
was quite heavy. He said he always fears that the stand might fall and
there's no way to secure it, and he's been doing this type of
recording for several decades.

Anyway, I'll probably consider the lighting stand suggestion, then
modify it. I've converted some cheap photo tripods into portable mic
stands, so I know it's not that hard.

He let me hear what he recorded and it sounded excellent (Sony
CDR-W33). Although I didn't hear the soft passages, I know there was
quite a bit of coughing and other sounds in the audience. I'd prefer
to use cardioids facing the stage to limit audience noise. But he had
those omnis pointing straight up (probably doesn't matter if they're
omnis). Anybody have an opinion about cardioid vs omni in live
recordings?

bayydogg wrote:

As it turns out, it was a Shure S15A. After the soundman brought down
the mics, I noticed the stereo mount with the two B&K omni mics on it
was quite heavy. He said he always fears that the stand might fall and
there's no way to secure it, and he's been doing this type of
recording for several decades.

This is the tubular thing that replaced the original S15 mount. It is
less sturdy by a long shot than the original S15, and it weighs more to
carry around.

There is a way to secure it, by hanging sand bags on the base. That
really adds to your cartage, though.

Anyway, I'll probably consider the lighting stand suggestion, then
modify it. I've converted some cheap photo tripods into portable mic
stands, so I know it's not that hard.

You should not need to modify it. Bogen sells an adaptor from the light
stand thread to the microphone thread, for three or four bucks.

He let me hear what he recorded and it sounded excellent (Sony
CDR-W33). Although I didn't hear the soft passages, I know there was
quite a bit of coughing and other sounds in the audience. I'd prefer
to use cardioids facing the stage to limit audience noise. But he had
those omnis pointing straight up (probably doesn't matter if they're
omnis). Anybody have an opinion about cardioid vs omni in live
recordings?

I think you get less audience noise with the omnis, because they can be
mounted so much closer to the orchestra. I tend to prefer baffled omnis
and don't like the weird imaging of narrowly-spaced omnis on a bar,
but that's a personal thing. With cardioids, you need to pull way back
in the room. They can be a huge help in a lousy-sounding room, and God
knows we all wind up with those now and then, but the audience noise is
more of an issue from back there.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

bayydogg wrote:

As it turns out, it was a Shure S15A. After the soundman brought down
the mics, I noticed the stereo mount with the two B&K omni mics on it
was quite heavy. He said he always fears that the stand might fall and
there's no way to secure it, and he's been doing this type of
recording for several decades.

This is the tubular thing that replaced the original S15 mount. It is
less sturdy by a long shot than the original S15, and it weighs more to
carry around.

There is a way to secure it, by hanging sand bags on the base. That
really adds to your cartage, though.

Anyway, I'll probably consider the lighting stand suggestion, then
modify it. I've converted some cheap photo tripods into portable mic
stands, so I know it's not that hard.

You should not need to modify it. Bogen sells an adaptor from the light
stand thread to the microphone thread, for three or four bucks.

He let me hear what he recorded and it sounded excellent (Sony
CDR-W33). Although I didn't hear the soft passages, I know there was
quite a bit of coughing and other sounds in the audience. I'd prefer
to use cardioids facing the stage to limit audience noise. But he had
those omnis pointing straight up (probably doesn't matter if they're
omnis). Anybody have an opinion about cardioid vs omni in live
recordings?

I think you get less audience noise with the omnis, because they can be
mounted so much closer to the orchestra. I tend to prefer baffled omnis
and don't like the weird imaging of narrowly-spaced omnis on a bar,
but that's a personal thing. With cardioids, you need to pull way back
in the room. They can be a huge help in a lousy-sounding room, and God
knows we all wind up with those now and then, but the audience noise is
more of an issue from back there.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

(Scott Dorsey) wrote in news:cn7qb8$obc$1
@panix2.panix.com:

I think you get less audience noise with the omnis, because they can be
mounted so much closer to the orchestra. I tend to prefer baffled omnis
and don't like the weird imaging of narrowly-spaced omnis on a bar,
but that's a personal thing. With cardioids, you need to pull way back
in the room. They can be a huge help in a lousy-sounding room, and God
knows we all wind up with those now and then, but the audience noise is
more of an issue from back there.

Scott, you and I have opposite philosphies on room noise and mic patterns.

I get farther back and use my hypercardioids in a bad or noisy room. I
find that omnis can't get far enough forward to avoid crowd noise.

(Scott Dorsey) wrote in news:cn7qb8$obc$1
@panix2.panix.com:

I think you get less audience noise with the omnis, because they can be
mounted so much closer to the orchestra. I tend to prefer baffled omnis
and don't like the weird imaging of narrowly-spaced omnis on a bar,
but that's a personal thing. With cardioids, you need to pull way back
in the room. They can be a huge help in a lousy-sounding room, and God
knows we all wind up with those now and then, but the audience noise is
more of an issue from back there.

Scott, you and I have opposite philosphies on room noise and mic patterns.

I get farther back and use my hypercardioids in a bad or noisy room. I
find that omnis can't get far enough forward to avoid crowd noise.

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...

With cardioids, you need to pull way back
in the room. They can be a huge help in a lousy-sounding room, and God
knows we all wind up with those now and then, but the audience noise is
more of an issue from back there.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Getting the mics up as high as possible helps the audience noise when using
cardioids pulled back in the room. When the room requires cardioids and can
accomodate 17 ft, I have much less audience noise than when I'm stuck down
at 10 to 12 ft.

bobs

Bob Smith
BS Studios
we organize chaos
http://www.bsstudios.com

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...

With cardioids, you need to pull way back
in the room. They can be a huge help in a lousy-sounding room, and God
knows we all wind up with those now and then, but the audience noise is
more of an issue from back there.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Getting the mics up as high as possible helps the audience noise when using
cardioids pulled back in the room. When the room requires cardioids and can
accomodate 17 ft, I have much less audience noise than when I'm stuck down
at 10 to 12 ft.

bobs

Bob Smith
BS Studios
we organize chaos
http://www.bsstudios.com

didn't notice the mic stand right in front dead center because I
wasn't looking for it. This time I did notice because I was looking.
It was chrome and fully extended. The very top leg was leaning.

As it turns out, it was a Shure S15A. After the soundman brought down
the mics, I noticed the stereo mount with the two B&K omni mics on it
was quite heavy. He said he always fears that the stand might fall and
there's no way to secure it, and he's been doing this type of
recording for several decades.



It's amazing what stability a 20 Lb sandbag can do for stability on a Shure
S15.

It won't tip easily with that much weight at the base.

I also have a Bogen stand with tubular legs that I use a lot and the sandbag
works well on it also.
Richard H. Kuschel
"I canna change the law of physics."-----Scotty

didn't notice the mic stand right in front dead center because I
wasn't looking for it. This time I did notice because I was looking.
It was chrome and fully extended. The very top leg was leaning.

As it turns out, it was a Shure S15A. After the soundman brought down
the mics, I noticed the stereo mount with the two B&K omni mics on it
was quite heavy. He said he always fears that the stand might fall and
there's no way to secure it, and he's been doing this type of
recording for several decades.



It's amazing what stability a 20 Lb sandbag can do for stability on a Shure
S15.

It won't tip easily with that much weight at the base.

I also have a Bogen stand with tubular legs that I use a lot and the sandbag
works well on it also.
Richard H. Kuschel
"I canna change the law of physics."-----Scotty

He let me hear what he recorded and it sounded excellent (Sony
CDR-W33). Although I didn't hear the soft passages, I know there was
quite a bit of coughing and other sounds in the audience. I'd prefer
to use cardioids facing the stage to limit audience noise. But he had
those omnis pointing straight up (probably doesn't matter if they're
omnis). Anybody have an opinion about cardioid vs omni in live
recordings?



I use both omnis or cardioids. Which I use depends upon the hall and what I am
recording.

Omnis pointing straight up is moderately weird as the off axis response is not
exactly the same as on- axis response.

Most omnis ( even B&K) exhibit some high frequency directionality at certain
frequencies. Perhaps he was trying to avoid that.
Richard H. Kuschel
"I canna change the law of physics."-----Scotty