First of all, thank you so much for all the fellows for your inputs.

Well, I have to admit that, high dollar speaker cables really make the
difference, but the point is, whether the difference(s) worth the high
dollar?

I listened to a USD$0.30/ft cable and a USD$150.00/ft cable, they sound
REALLY difference, the high dollar cable REALLY sounds better, but
defintely not 500 times better than then cheap cable!!!

That is one of the reasons that I try to make speaker cable myself. I
just make one with double 12 AWG "normal" speaker cable (USD$0.40/ft),
terminated it real good, heat shrink it, put on foil, nylon sleeving the
whole nine yards, and guess what? I spent about USD$50.00 for that pair
of speaker cables and it sounds almost as good as my Analysis-Plus Oval 9
(which is about USD$500.00), although my cable lack a little bit detail
in the mid-range, the high pitch is not as clear. But, I blame it as new
cables, need another 100 hours to break-in.

What I want is to find out the characteristic of the Oval 9, like the Q,
L, and C. Then compare them with my home-made cable's Q, L, and C to see
if the "difference" can be quantified!!!

Hey, if I told you I make a good living, you might not have any idea what
"good living" mean, but if I told you I make 3 million dollars salary per
year, then you know what my good living mean!

We all live in a "number" world!

Once again, thanks for all the inputs, please keep feed me with
information and knowledge.

Lawrence Leung

"Lawrence Leung" wrote in message
news:9YAqb.93030$mZ5.606977@attbi_s54...
First of all, thank you so much for all the fellows for your inputs.

Well, I have to admit that, high dollar speaker cables really make the
difference, but the point is, whether the difference(s) worth the high
dollar?

I listened to a USD$0.30/ft cable and a USD$150.00/ft cable, they sound
REALLY difference, the high dollar cable REALLY sounds better, but
defintely not 500 times better than then cheap cable!!!

That is one of the reasons that I try to make speaker cable myself. I
just make one with double 12 AWG "normal" speaker cable (USD$0.40/ft),
terminated it real good, heat shrink it, put on foil, nylon sleeving the
whole nine yards, and guess what? I spent about USD$50.00 for that pair
of speaker cables and it sounds almost as good as my Analysis-Plus Oval 9
(which is about USD$500.00), although my cable lack a little bit detail
in the mid-range, the high pitch is not as clear. But, I blame it as new
cables, need another 100 hours to break-in.

What I want is to find out the characteristic of the Oval 9, like the Q,
L, and C. Then compare them with my home-made cable's Q, L, and C to see
if the "difference" can be quantified!!!

Hey, if I told you I make a good living, you might not have any idea what
"good living" mean, but if I told you I make 3 million dollars salary per
year, then you know what my good living mean!

We all live in a "number" world!

Once again, thanks for all the inputs, please keep feed me with
information and knowledge.

Lawrence Leung


you could shorten the 'break-in' by massaging the cables slowly working your
way along.
and gentle use of a hair dryer on very low setting.

"Lawrence Leung" wrote in message
news:9YAqb.93030$mZ5.606977@attbi_s54...

Well, I have to admit that, high dollar speaker cables really make the
difference, but the point is, whether the difference(s) worth the high
dollar?

Well, supposed you made a slighly less good living. You just made a $50 pair
of cables and find it could sell for $500. You'd start making and selling
cables. That's where the high dollar comes from. It's market pricing, not
cost-based pricing...

"Bruno Putzeys" wrote in
news:z1Pqb.139828$e01.467840@attbi_s02:

"Lawrence Leung" wrote in message
news:9YAqb.93030$mZ5.606977@attbi_s54...

Well, I have to admit that, high dollar speaker cables really make
the difference, but the point is, whether the difference(s) worth the
high dollar?

Well, supposed you made a slighly less good living. You just made a
$50 pair of cables and find it could sell for $500. You'd start making
and selling cables. That's where the high dollar comes from. It's
market pricing, not cost-based pricing...



Umm... I don't think I understand what're you trying to say?

Lawrence Leung wrote:

"Bruno Putzeys" wrote in
news:z1Pqb.139828$e01.467840@attbi_s02:

"Lawrence Leung" wrote in message
news:9YAqb.93030$mZ5.606977@attbi_s54...

Well, I have to admit that, high dollar speaker cables really make
the difference, but the point is, whether the difference(s) worth the
high dollar?

Well, supposed you made a slighly less good living. You just made a
$50 pair of cables and find it could sell for $500. You'd start making
and selling cables. That's where the high dollar comes from. It's
market pricing, not cost-based pricing...



Umm... I don't think I understand what're you trying to say?

I take it to mean they are $500 cables because "they" can get $500 and not
because the cables cost many times more to make.

--
Doug

"malcolm" wrote in message
news:KhFqb.134898$e01.458125@attbi_s02...
*snip*


you could shorten the 'break-in' by massaging the cables slowly working
your
way along.
and gentle use of a hair dryer on very low setting.

Before anyone replies, was this a serious suggestion, or a joke?

Bruce Abrams wrote:
"malcolm" wrote in message
news:KhFqb.134898$e01.458125@attbi_s02...
*snip*


you could shorten the 'break-in' by massaging the cables slowly working
your
way along.
and gentle use of a hair dryer on very low setting.

Before anyone replies, was this a serious suggestion, or a joke?

I assumed it was a joke...but now you've put the fear in me.

--

-S.

Steven Sullivan wrote in
news:CyTqb.141660$e01.474365@attbi_s02:

Bruce Abrams wrote:
"malcolm" wrote in message
news:KhFqb.134898$e01.458125@attbi_s02...
*snip*


you could shorten the 'break-in' by massaging the cables slowly
working
your
way along.
and gentle use of a hair dryer on very low setting.

Before anyone replies, was this a serious suggestion, or a joke?

I assumed it was a joke...but now you've put the fear in me.


I have to thanks Malcolm brought out the reply!
Actually, it is not that hard to do the "break-in", just hook up to your
tuner and let it run for about 5 days without turning it off, you don't
need to put on loud volume.

Lawrence Leung

Just curious, Assuming $50 worth of *raw materials*, exactly how much does
an actual bona fide registered business that pays taxes, etc., have to charge
for this set of cables in order to *break even*??

(assume a low volume production, not automated)

Please be specific and give examples, "show your work." :- )

Signed,

_-_-Just Curious

Doug wrote:

Lawrence Leung wrote:

"Bruno Putzeys" wrote in
news:z1Pqb.139828$e01.467840@attbi_s02:

"Lawrence Leung" wrote in message
news:9YAqb.93030$mZ5.606977@attbi_s54...

Well, I have to admit that, high dollar speaker cables really make
the difference, but the point is, whether the difference(s) worth the
high dollar?

Well, supposed you made a slighly less good living. You just made a
$50 pair of cables and find it could sell for $500. You'd start making
and selling cables. That's where the high dollar comes from. It's
market pricing, not cost-based pricing...



Umm... I don't think I understand what're you trying to say?

I take it to mean they are $500 cables because "they" can get $500 and not
because the cables cost many times more to make.

--
Doug

--
_-_- BEAR Labs
- Custom Audio Equipment, Cables, Mods, Repairs -
http://www.bearlabs.com

BEAR wrote in news:gZarb.107306$9E1.527340@attbi_s52:

Just curious, Assuming $50 worth of *raw materials*, exactly how much
does an actual bona fide registered business that pays taxes, etc.,
have to charge for this set of cables in order to *break even*??

(assume a low volume production, not automated)

Please be specific and give examples, "show your work." :- )

Signed,

_-_-Just Curious

Simple maths! Any price tag higher than $50.00 will do. How long to make
a pair of speaker cables? About one hour or two, say, you want to charge
yourself USD$20.00 per hour for labor, that makes the cost of a pair of
speaker cables $90.00.

Well, you have to sell to pay tax, right? Say, add another 10% if you
want to, USD$100.00!!!

I can assure that that pair of speaker cables are the best speaker
cables that you ever have, because they are made by you!

Lawrence Leung

Simple maths! Any price tag higher than $50.00 will do. How long to make
a pair of speaker cables? About one hour or two, say, you want to charge
yourself USD$20.00 per hour for labor, that makes the cost of a pair of
speaker cables $90.00.

Well, you have to sell to pay tax, right? Say, add another 10% if you
want to, USD$100.00!!!

I can assure that that pair of speaker cables are the best speaker
cables that you ever have, because they are made by you!

Lawrence Leung







As some one who has opened and successfully operated a retail business I must
point out that there is a lot more costs for a bonifide business to break even
than you are accounting for. Overhead includes rental on your place of
business. Inventory is another issue. Shipping and basic clerical work factors
in. Oh did I talk about cost of marketing?No. That can be half or more of the
cost of doing busienss. just look at the budgets' of Coca Cola, Mcdonalds or
Bose. Did I mention that manufaturers generally sell to retail operations with
their own set of overhead costs and their own need to mark up the product? Did
I mention that in some cases the product is imported and/or is handled by a
distributor before it is sent to retail outlets?

Lawrence Leung wrote:

BEAR wrote in news:gZarb.107306$9E1.527340@attbi_s52:

Just curious, Assuming $50 worth of *raw materials*, exactly how much
does an actual bona fide registered business that pays taxes, etc.,
have to charge for this set of cables in order to *break even*??

(assume a low volume production, not automated)

Please be specific and give examples, "show your work." :- )

Signed,

_-_-Just Curious

Simple maths! Any price tag higher than $50.00 will do. How long to make
a pair of speaker cables? About one hour or two, say, you want to charge
yourself USD$20.00 per hour for labor, that makes the cost of a pair of
speaker cables $90.00.

Obviously you've never actually done any business on your own.

Your simple math is too simplistic... you have forgotten any overheads:
health insurance, advertising, insurance, rent, electricity, phone,
workman's comp, etc...
and your assumption of $20.00/hr and the time it takes to make a commercially
viable (aesthetically pleasing) cable is likely much longer than you've suggested.

You've also left out *profit.*

Any business course will tell you that at *minimum* the rule of thumb
for pricing is 5x the cost of materials.



Well, you have to sell to pay tax, right? Say, add another 10% if you
want to, USD$100.00!!!

Well, that's just silly.



I can assure that that pair of speaker cables are the best speaker
cables that you ever have, because they are made by you!

My point is that complaining about the cost of a manufactured, low
production, or hand made product isn't in line with reality. There is
a huge difference between hobbyist/DIY "costs" and the true
and real cost of doing buisiness in the real world. Like it or not
making any product for sale commerically requires a substantial
*upfront* cash investment, and that investment is only viable
IF there is sufficient PROFIT as a ROI.

So, let's stop complaining so much about the cost of cables - no
one is forcing any of you to buy a commercial cable, and indeed
many hobbyists do make there own (which is fine) - those who
charge exorbitant prices and make absurd claims can stand
or fall on their own, this has nothing to do with the point I am
making here.

_-_-bear



Lawrence Leung

--
_-_- BEAR Labs
- Custom Audio Equipment, Cables, Mods, Repairs -
http://www.bearlabs.com

Doug wrote:

Lawrence Leung wrote:

"Bruno Putzeys" wrote in
news:z1Pqb.139828$e01.467840@attbi_s02:

"Lawrence Leung" wrote in message
news:9YAqb.93030$mZ5.606977@attbi_s54...

Well, I have to admit that, high dollar speaker cables really make
the difference, but the point is, whether the difference(s) worth the
high dollar?

Well, supposed you made a slighly less good living. You just made a
$50 pair of cables and find it could sell for $500. You'd start making
and selling cables. That's where the high dollar comes from. It's
market pricing, not cost-based pricing...



Umm... I don't think I understand what're you trying to say?

I take it to mean they are $500 cables because "they" can get $500 and not
because the cables cost many times more to make.

--
Doug

I gained some insight on "parts" cost from a manufacturer who wanted to offer
his customers cabling 'choices' because some customers were 'buying' down on
his basic products because they were budgeting 15-20% for cables.

So he purchased his own "branded cables" from a larger well-known high-end
cable house. The MSRP on one set of interconnecting fully terminated cables was
$699. The wholesale delivered price to him was $14.95. The strategy here was to
give customers "sweetheart" deals on wires to keep them from buying down onmain
product and the keep the whole margin in-house. This gave me quite a different
perspective on wire parts cost.

Also I once visited a commercially known high-end cable company and noted that
the warehouse was filled with large spools of cable with "New England Wire and
Cable" printed on the spool.

This company made their own terminations and network boxes as well which
inreased parts costs additionally and also required warehousing requirements.
But the basic "parts cost" ratio was apparently much, much more favorable than
the simple 5X rule-of-thumb that is widely used in the speaker manufacuring
industry.

And I'm guessing that some 'manufacturers' may not even warehouse cables and
simply have product drop-shipped to retailers from an OEM manufacturer.

BEAR wrote:


Any business course will tell you that at *minimum* the rule of thumb
for pricing is 5x the cost of materials.


OK, the cost of the material is, what, 40 ft of wires at $.30/ft? That
comes up to $12. That's only if he is buying wires retail. Substantial
savings if he actually orders real volumes. Add the speaker terminals,
etc., and even then we're looking at a parts cost under $15 for him. 5X
would be $60.



Well, you have to sell to pay tax, right? Say, add another 10% if you
want to, USD$100.00!!!

Well, that's just silly.



I can assure that that pair of speaker cables are the best speaker
cables that you ever have, because they are made by you!

My point is that complaining about the cost of a manufactured, low
production, or hand made product isn't in line with reality. There is
a huge difference between hobbyist/DIY "costs" and the true
and real cost of doing buisiness in the real world. Like it or not
making any product for sale commerically requires a substantial
*upfront* cash investment, and that investment is only viable
IF there is sufficient PROFIT as a ROI.

So, let's stop complaining so much about the cost of cables - no
one is forcing any of you to buy a commercial cable, and indeed
many hobbyists do make there own (which is fine) - those who
charge exorbitant prices and make absurd claims can stand
or fall on their own, this has nothing to do with the point I am
making here.

I doubt if a pair of cables takes 2 hours to make, unless it's DIY by
hobbyists. My very conservative guess is that it takes no more than 15
minutes to build a pair of cables, in any repeatable semi-production
environment. (And it may be as short as 2 minutes.) If we take his
$20/hr., that labor is $5, conservatively. So we are looking at a
manufacturing cost of $20 or less.

You can throw any multiplier in, but certainly $500 would give a gross
profit of something like $480 which goes a long way towards rental (how
much room you need to make cables?), inventory, etc.

I think Tom Nousaine's $14.95 dealer cost for some speaker cables is
spot on.


_-_-bear



--
_-_- BEAR Labs
- Custom Audio Equipment, Cables, Mods, Repairs -
http://www.bearlabs.com

BEAR wrote in message news:WAwrb.155342$Fm2.136363@attbi_s04...
Lawrence Leung wrote:

BEAR wrote in news:gZarb.107306$9E1.527340@attbi_s52:

Just curious, Assuming $50 worth of *raw materials*, exactly how much
does an actual bona fide registered business that pays taxes, etc.,
have to charge for this set of cables in order to *break even*??

(assume a low volume production, not automated)

Please be specific and give examples, "show your work." :- )

Signed,

_-_-Just Curious

Simple maths! Any price tag higher than $50.00 will do. How long to make
a pair of speaker cables? About one hour or two, say, you want to charge
yourself USD$20.00 per hour for labor, that makes the cost of a pair of
speaker cables $90.00.

Obviously you've never actually done any business on your own.

Actually, I wonder seriously if Mr. Leung even bothered to read
and understand the question, which I took to mean:

How much would a COMPNEY whose BUSINESS it is to sell cables
have to charge for a set of cables that cost X in order to
remain in business. 1.5X? 2X? 300X?

Your simple math is too simplistic... you have forgotten any
overheads: health insurance, advertising, insurance, rent,
electricity, phone, workman's comp, etc...
and your assumption of $20.00/hr and the time it takes to make
a commercially viable (aesthetically pleasing) cable is likely
much longer than you've suggested.

You've also left out *profit.*

Any business course will tell you that at *minimum* the rule of thumb
for pricing is 5x the cost of materials.

The 5x rule is typical for speaker manufacturing. In fact, from
quite a bit of experience in the business, I know of absolutely
NO speaker company which has survived with a direct materials
cost to retail price ratio of less than 1:4. By "survive" I mean
the business was self-sustaining after the initial capital
investment.

Our dear Mr. Bear lists just SOME of the costs, and there are more.
First you have the direct costs: material, parts, labor. Don't forget
to include stuff like packing material and shipping. You have indirect
costs: administrative labor, rent, utilites, taxes, fees, advertising.
You have dealer incentive programs, rep commissions. You have the
initial sunken costs, such as start-up capital for machinery and
support materials. And you have a lot of stuff that many manufacturers
never even THINK of, but get bitten by. One example is the implicit
costs of warranty: some percentage of units WILL fail: shipping
damage, abuse, random failures and so on. Most of these the manufacturer
will swallow, even if it isn't the manufacturer's fault, just to
maintain good will. Add returned goods, bad debt and more.

When you're all done, if you can't sell the finished good for a
MINIMUM of 4 times your direct materials cost, then you have no
business trying. But, even at that, 4 times is REALLY sailing
close to the wind and there is NO margin for business downturns,
late delivery or ANY other chinks on your finely tuned plan. You
have NO contingency at all, and you will fail.

That's where the 5 times figure quoted above comes from.

I fully understand the question. But my approach is: when you start a
business, you start from small. You're not going to start the business with
everything, and every personnel. YOU will be the assembler, the
receptionist, the marketing personnel, the delivery guy, I mean, a one man
army!!!

I start my consultant company ten years with only myself, a home office. I
worked my way up until now I have 40 people work for me in a 10,000 square
feet office!

What I tried to say is, you make the cable, sell it and accumulated profit,
put it that way, you can going to sell your speaker cable to your local
dealer (a store sth like that) for $100.00, your cost to make that cable is
probably $30.00, plus $20.00 for your labor, misc. $20.00 and make profit
of $30.00, hey, I'm talking about (30/70)% profit margain BEFORE labor, if
I count the labor cost, then I'm making (50/100)% = 50% profit margain.
$50.00 per cable, if I can sell 5 cables per day, 20 cables per week, 1000
cables per year, I will make a PROFIT of $50,000.00 per year!

And it is only my side-job!

Lawrence Leung

chung wrote:

BEAR wrote:


Any business course will tell you that at *minimum* the rule of thumb
for pricing is 5x the cost of materials.


OK, the cost of the material is, what, 40 ft of wires at $.30/ft? That
comes up to $12. That's only if he is buying wires retail. Substantial
savings if he actually orders real volumes. Add the speaker terminals,
etc., and even then we're looking at a parts cost under $15 for him. 5X
would be $60.



Well, you have to sell to pay tax, right? Say, add another 10% if you
want to, USD$100.00!!!

Well, that's just silly.



I can assure that that pair of speaker cables are the best speaker
cables that you ever have, because they are made by you!

My point is that complaining about the cost of a manufactured, low
production, or hand made product isn't in line with reality. There is
a huge difference between hobbyist/DIY "costs" and the true
and real cost of doing buisiness in the real world. Like it or not
making any product for sale commerically requires a substantial
*upfront* cash investment, and that investment is only viable
IF there is sufficient PROFIT as a ROI.

So, let's stop complaining so much about the cost of cables - no
one is forcing any of you to buy a commercial cable, and indeed
many hobbyists do make there own (which is fine) - those who
charge exorbitant prices and make absurd claims can stand
or fall on their own, this has nothing to do with the point I am
making here.

I doubt if a pair of cables takes 2 hours to make, unless it's DIY by
hobbyists. My very conservative guess is that it takes no more than 15
minutes to build a pair of cables, in any repeatable semi-production
environment. (And it may be as short as 2 minutes.) If we take his
$20/hr., that labor is $5, conservatively. So we are looking at a
manufacturing cost of $20 or less.

So, you've never soldered anything, I take it?

And no, that's not a "manufacturing cost" that is your raw (estimated)
cost of labor.

You can build a pair of cables in 15 minutes, if you cut a section of
"zip cord" and crimp a set of electrical lugs on... sure.

I guarantee that you could not make cables to the recipe that I use
in 2 hours.

In my actual experience things take much longer to actually do
than to dream about or think about...



You can throw any multiplier in, but certainly $500 would give a gross
profit of something like $480 which goes a long way towards rental (how
much room you need to make cables?), inventory, etc.

Sure, and you can make up anything you like and believe anything,
but it won't make it true or real.



I think Tom Nousaine's $14.95 dealer cost for some speaker cables is
spot on.

I don't know that Tom thinks about this, but I'd suggest that since he participates
here, that he can speak for himself, and you should speak for yourself.




_-_-bear



--
_-_- BEAR Labs
- Custom Audio Equipment, Cables, Mods, Repairs -
http://www.bearlabs.com


--
_-_- BEAR Labs
- Custom Audio Equipment, Cables, Mods, Repairs -
http://www.bearlabs.com

Lawrence Leung wrote:

I fully understand the question. But my approach is: when you start a
business, you start from small. You're not going to start the business with
everything, and every personnel. YOU will be the assembler, the
receptionist, the marketing personnel, the delivery guy, I mean, a one man
army!!!

I start my consultant company ten years with only myself, a home office. I
worked my way up until now I have 40 people work for me in a 10,000 square
feet office!

What I tried to say is, you make the cable, sell it and accumulated profit,
put it that way, you can going to sell your speaker cable to your local
dealer (a store sth like that) for $100.00, your cost to make that cable is
probably $30.00, plus $20.00 for your labor, misc. $20.00 and make profit
of $30.00, hey, I'm talking about (30/70)% profit margain BEFORE labor, if
I count the labor cost, then I'm making (50/100)% = 50% profit margain.
$50.00 per cable, if I can sell 5 cables per day, 20 cables per week, 1000
cables per year, I will make a PROFIT of $50,000.00 per year!

And it is only my side-job!

Sure - and your consulting business, I am sure, does not depend upon sales of
$100 items, now does it? :- )

Your model is way way too simplistic. Your ONE single store is not going to sell $50,000
worth of cables (you actually said $100,000 gross sales, but no matter).

How are you going to *SELL* 20 cables per week??

You're going to have to spread your sales out over *many stores* in many
geographical locations!

So,
what this means in real world reality, is that *most stores* are not going
to sell ANY of your cables at all!
WHY? Because they are going to sell NAME BRAND X AND NAME
BRAND Y cables - not yours. Why? Because the NAME BRAND cables
ADVERTISE - and that advertisment costs BIG $$. It is the ads that - if
there are going to be any sales - bring the customers TO the store demanding
that product.

So, now Lawrence, you need to *advertise* - what do you think those nice
ads in the *big name magazines* are going to cost you?? And, what do you
think is going to be required for you to get your cables into Store X and
Store Y?? A phone call? Or they going to call YOU begging for your cables?
And, you can substitute anything into that last sentance you want!!

This is not an easy business, and at this point in time "cables" are not a
commodity, not unique and the market is flooded with them - as it is
with speakers, and amps, etc... not to mention tubes.

So, if you are going to suceed - even if the product itself costs you ZERO
to make - it isn't going to cheap or simple to sell your product and even
break even, much less make a profit.

I'll tell you what - maybe you can sell 20 cables per week. You don't
even have to make them! Email me.
We'll talk. Ok? :- )

_-_-bear



Lawrence Leung

--
_-_- BEAR Labs
- Custom Audio Equipment, Cables, Mods, Repairs -
http://www.bearlabs.com

BEAR wrote:
chung wrote:



So, let's stop complaining so much about the cost of cables - no
one is forcing any of you to buy a commercial cable, and indeed
many hobbyists do make there own (which is fine) - those who
charge exorbitant prices and make absurd claims can stand
or fall on their own, this has nothing to do with the point I am
making here.

I doubt if a pair of cables takes 2 hours to make, unless it's DIY by
hobbyists. My very conservative guess is that it takes no more than 15
minutes to build a pair of cables, in any repeatable semi-production
environment. (And it may be as short as 2 minutes.) If we take his
$20/hr., that labor is $5, conservatively. So we are looking at a
manufacturing cost of $20 or less.

So, you've never soldered anything, I take it?

Uhh, I learned how to solder in the early '70's.


And no, that's not a "manufacturing cost" that is your raw (estimated)
cost of labor.

You can build a pair of cables in 15 minutes, if you cut a section of
"zip cord" and crimp a set of electrical lugs on... sure.

I guarantee that you could not make cables to the recipe that I use
in 2 hours.

Well, sure, anyone can take a lot longer to solder. And anyone can come
up with an exceedingly complex "recipe" to make speaker cables.

And it sounds like some do .


In my actual experience things take much longer to actually do
than to dream about or think about...

Maybe you need a better recipe ?




You can throw any multiplier in, but certainly $500 would give a gross
profit of something like $480 which goes a long way towards rental (how
much room you need to make cables?), inventory, etc.

Sure, and you can make up anything you like and believe anything,
but it won't make it true or real.



I think Tom Nousaine's $14.95 dealer cost for some speaker cables is
spot on.

I don't know that Tom thinks about this, but I'd suggest that since he participates
here, that he can speak for himself, and you should speak for yourself.\

I thought that was exactly what I was doing, speaking for myself. You
think I was speaking for Tom?





_-_-bear

BEAR wrote in
news:IGFrb.116755$275.339046@attbi_s53:

Lawrence Leung wrote:

I fully understand the question. But my approach is: when you start a
business, you start from small. You're not going to start the
business with everything, and every personnel. YOU will be the
assembler, the receptionist, the marketing personnel, the delivery
guy, I mean, a one man army!!!


I'll tell you what - maybe you can sell 20 cables per week. You don't
even have to make them! Email me.
We'll talk. Ok? :- )

_-_-bear


I'll tell you what - email me the spec. of your cables, your
interconnect (both RCA and XLR) and speaker cable. I want the L, C, R,
and Q under difference audio frequency sample.

Sure, we can work something out!

Lawrence Leung

Lawrence Leung wrote:

BEAR wrote in
news:IGFrb.116755$275.339046@attbi_s53:

Lawrence Leung wrote:

I fully understand the question. But my approach is: when you start a
business, you start from small. You're not going to start the
business with everything, and every personnel. YOU will be the
assembler, the receptionist, the marketing personnel, the delivery
guy, I mean, a one man army!!!


I'll tell you what - maybe you can sell 20 cables per week. You don't
even have to make them! Email me.
We'll talk. Ok? :- )

_-_-bear


I'll tell you what - email me the spec. of your cables, your
interconnect (both RCA and XLR) and speaker cable. I want the L, C, R,
and Q under difference audio frequency sample.

Sure, we can work something out!

Lawrence Leung

As noted, Lawrence, the result needs to also have certain aesthetic
and construction details adhered to...

I know that you truly believe that L,C,R and Q (tell me how you
propose to measure the "Q" of a cable, btw) will fully describe
all the characteristics of cables. You may or may not be correct
in that regard. That is a debate that approaches religious and
fanatic beliefs so we will *not* attempt to divine the truth about
it here, ok?

But, YOU don't have to make them - you have to SELL them!

I'll be happy to supply them, you can test them to your hearts
content, you might even listen to them, or through them, as
you wish.

So, can and will you *sell* 20 cables per week or not?

And as I said, if you are not merely for show here in public on
rahe, you would email me privately... Mmmm.

_-_-bear

--
_-_- BEAR Labs
- Custom Audio Equipment, Cables, Mods, Repairs -
http://www.bearlabs.com

Lawrence Leung wrote in message news:OJWrb.119951$275.349109@attbi_s53...
BEAR wrote in
news:IGFrb.116755$275.339046@attbi_s53:

Lawrence Leung wrote:

I fully understand the question. But my approach is: when you start a
business, you start from small. You're not going to start the
business with everything, and every personnel. YOU will be the
assembler, the receptionist, the marketing personnel, the delivery
guy, I mean, a one man army!!!


I'll tell you what - maybe you can sell 20 cables per week. You don't
even have to make them! Email me.
We'll talk. Ok? :- )
I'll tell you what - email me the spec. of your cables, your
interconnect (both RCA and XLR) and speaker cable. I want the L, C, R,
and Q under difference audio frequency sample.

Hmmm, with all due respect, Mr. Leung, if you are looking for
the "L, C, R and Q under difference audio frequency sample," I
for one, based on that statement alone, would seriously doubt
your technical expertise in in the field, since the statement
is technical nonsensical, ignoring that it just fails to parse.

However, having no technical expertise, it should be noted, has not
stopped any number of people from having a go at making audio products
in the realm of the alledged "high-end." Even very expensive ones.

Sure, we can work something out!

And you can't fool mother nature.

Dick Pierce wrote:
snip

I'll tell you what - email me the spec. of your cables, your
interconnect (both RCA and XLR) and speaker cable. I want the L, C, R,
and Q under difference audio frequency sample.

Hmmm, with all due respect, Mr. Leung, if you are looking for
the "L, C, R and Q under difference audio frequency sample," I
for one, based on that statement alone, would seriously doubt
your technical expertise in in the field, since the statement
is technical nonsensical, ignoring that it just fails to parse.

I suspect that Mr. Leung was trying to impart was something along these
lines:

"R,L & C plus Q parameters measured at different audio frequencies..."



However, having no technical expertise, it should be noted, has not
stopped any number of people from having a go at making audio products
in the realm of the alledged "high-end." Even very expensive ones.

Which, of course, is a non-sequiteur since this is not the subject in
question. I can't quite tell what sort of fish it is, it may be in fact
a red herring? '- )

_-_-bear



Sure, we can work something out!

And you can't fool mother nature.

--
_-_- BEAR Labs
- Custom Audio Equipment, Cables, Mods, Repairs -
http://www.bearlabs.com