[Bret L]

From jenkem vendor Walt Bender's site:


"2 channel sound reproduction: "Older is better" could it be true?

In the realm of 2-channel audio, the controversial maxim "the older,
the better" is usually best literally taken. Science will one day lift
the enigma of this prejudiced blanket statement. In opposition to our
beloved cultish operation of archaic electronics; stands the
internet's army of parochial skeptics, myopic scientists, high-end new
gear tout's (not to mention generalized fuss budgets). They
predictably and continually criticize the rising value of these
seemingly obsolete items. Yes, it's hard to believe. Yes, modern
technology is a godsend. It keeps us safe. And up to speed. It
delivers multi channel sound effects for todays hi-res, but jittery
digital content.

But what about traditional 2 channel sound reproduction? Well, things
take a fanciful turn. Western Electric, RCA, Marantz, oil caps, wire
wound resistors and old spools of solder - in some cases have
appreciated faster than gold bullion. But this is not identical to
Tulip mania, or the South Sea Bubble. A real reason exists, and to
this day maintains. The sound of certain old audio components cannot
be surpassed. They just "work", "feel" or "sound" better to our crazy
and sensitive human ears. If they did not, prices would not continue
to rise. Collector's fervor alone cannot drive prices to the moon like
we see!

Old audio equipment fills modern needs and wants. It doesn't simply
placate the empty slot of a coin collector's dusty binder.
Reproductions can at best only approximate or hollowly mimic the
detail and tone of originals. Beyond that, the copy, the clone, the
reproduction has no intrinsic value. Yet, reproductions do have much
of the downside depreciation of "newly made". Simply put - what's old
in audio, is part of living history.

Antiques were produced at a time when materials were different. Wires
and metals were refined in slower ways. They contain varying levels of
purity as well as heavier content of natural fibers and elements. Use
and age have further conditioned these properties. It is not possible
to reproduce this. A single purchase 30yrs ago of an oil capacitor, WE
171C transformer, Marantz 7c, or even piece of cloth wire has
surpassed the most esteemed financial instruments. The aforementioned
Western Electric 1086 that sold for $300 in 1982, now could easily
bring many, many thousands. More importantly, when you buy vintage
audio - be it a complete amp or part for a project; you buy to use.
Being a functional active entertainment device. Not a static,
unimaginative lump of gold under glass. As always good quality,
established classic audio is cherished primarily overseas. A truly
safe hedge to the falling US dollar, don't you agree?"

http://www.hifitown.com/index.php?di...view&page_id=5

[Patrick Turner]

Please excuse the top posting reply but older does not mean better.

I have worked for 15 years trying to keep old audio gear working. Most
of it is solid state and not really old. I do get to work on some
really old stuff with vacuum tubes. But anyway, some of the stuff I
repair sounds good, and some sounds very un-remarkable or plain awful,
and some of the awful stuff is old, tubed and full of good, medium and
awful parts. Quad-II amps and the Quad 22 and most other early British
hi-fi gear plus Dynaco and much "Olde Junke" is typical. Much of the
old gear definately has plenty of crappy parts, such as underwhelming
quality of output transformers and poor circuit design. You can see
where the bean counters excavated the quality. Any attempt to improve
the sound by replacing R & C with better ones does not do very much in
most cases.
Nobody has ever proven to me that replacing perfectly servicable R & C
parts makes any difference to the sound in amplifiers. People like to
think such replacements make a difference, but the only difference I
detect is the change of attitude in the minds of those who for one
irrational reason or another think that the change makes a difference.
Such people are allergic to AB comparisons where the one thing they
don't want to hear is me telling them their hearing isn't very good
because they cannot pick which amp has the expensive silver foil in
oil capacitors and which one has the Wima polypropylene film caps
which sound marvellous to 95% of everyone else.

Anyway, there continues to be a steam of crummy audio junk being made
now and this is a continuation of the past when a stream of junk was
being made ever since somebody realised there was money to be made by
supplying hi-fi gear to ppl entranced by replay of recorded music.

I for one sure do not need more than 2 channels, and I don't need to
see the people performing the music from a DVD.
In fact, the musical experience is best had in a darkened room,
preferably when you are young, and by a nice open fire with real logs
and real flames, bottle of red, and a fine sheila present and eager to
delight your body and hers to the fullest extent possible. Then the
music of Bach, Beethoven, Ghershwin, et all come to life and with
little regard about jitter, DAC quality, amp quality, speaker leads,
brand of caps or tubes, number of channels etc.

Patrick Turner.



On Jun 9, 1:12*pm, Bret L wrote:
*From jenkem vendor Walt Bender's site:

"2 channel sound reproduction: "Older is better" could it be true?

In the realm of 2-channel audio, the controversial maxim "the older,
the better" is usually best literally taken. Science will one day lift
the enigma of this prejudiced blanket statement. In opposition to our
beloved cultish operation of archaic electronics; stands the
internet's army of parochial skeptics, myopic scientists, high-end new
gear tout's (not to mention generalized fuss budgets). They
predictably and continually criticize the rising value of these
seemingly obsolete items. Yes, it's hard to believe. Yes, modern
technology is a godsend. It keeps us safe. And up to speed. It
delivers multi channel sound effects for todays hi-res, but jittery
digital content.

But what about traditional 2 channel sound reproduction? Well, things
take a fanciful turn. Western Electric, RCA, Marantz, oil caps, wire
wound resistors and old spools of solder - in some cases have
appreciated faster than gold bullion. But this is not identical to
Tulip mania, or the South Sea Bubble. A real reason exists, and to
this day maintains. The sound of certain old audio components cannot
be surpassed. They just "work", "feel" or "sound" better to our crazy
and sensitive human ears. If they did not, prices would not continue
to rise. Collector's fervor alone cannot drive prices to the moon like
we see!

Old audio equipment fills modern needs and wants. It doesn't simply
placate the empty slot of a coin collector's dusty binder.
Reproductions can at best only approximate or hollowly mimic the
detail and tone of originals. Beyond that, the copy, the clone, the
reproduction has no intrinsic value. Yet, reproductions do have much
of the downside depreciation of "newly made". Simply put - what's old
in audio, is part of living history.

Antiques were produced at a time when materials were different. Wires
and metals were refined in slower ways. They contain varying levels of
purity as well as heavier content of natural fibers and elements. Use
and age have further conditioned these properties. It is not possible
to reproduce this. A single purchase 30yrs ago of an oil capacitor, WE
171C transformer, Marantz 7c, or even piece of cloth wire has
surpassed the most esteemed financial instruments. The aforementioned
Western Electric 1086 that sold for $300 in 1982, now could easily
bring many, many thousands. More importantly, when you buy vintage
audio - be it a complete amp or part for a project; you buy to use.
Being a functional active entertainment device. Not a static,
unimaginative lump of gold under glass. As always good quality,
established classic audio is cherished primarily overseas. A truly
safe hedge to the falling US dollar, don't you agree?"

http://www.hifitown.com/index.php?di...view&page_id=5