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#1
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stereo vs mono piano
just to relate a recent experience doing a piano and flute duo
performing classical material. the piano is a 7'4" bosendorfer in the pianist's living room, so i had to track it on site. i used a spaced pair of DPA 4011s just outside the curve. the flute was recorded in my studio using a spaced pair of DPA 4006s and an ORTF pair of AKG c481s. all through millennia media HV3 pres. i started by mixing the piano as a hard LR panned image, which gives you the 50' wide piano effect, low end on the left and high on the right, with a slight hole in the middle for the flute. i reversed the reverb returns to give some high end on the left and some bottom on the right. i gave the piano a slight smile EQ to also make a place for the flute to sit. i rahter tightly panned the flute tracks at maybe 10:30-1:30 or so. the whole thing sounded mushy to me, flute wasnt localized enough, and the piano sounded ridiculous to me spread out so far (even though most of the piano/XXX duo CDs i have display this kind of wide panning for the piano). i tried everything i knew with various stereo effects reducing the panned piano image to a more naroow space (which made it conflict with the flute, of course), blah, blah, etc. finally, i got so frustrated, i pulled all the faders down except for one of the piano mics, and one of the flute mics, gave them each a bit of a nice stereo reverb, panned the flute just left of center, and the piano just roght of center, and BINGO - all of a sudden the whole mix took on a new life - both instruments have a defined place in the stereo image, while the stereo reverb gives a natrual sounding width to both instruments. i guess i relay all this because in the past, i have never even considered micing a piano in mono, and virtually always have tracked solo instruments like flutes in stereo. duh, duh, and duh... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- jnorman sunridge studios salem, oregon |
#2
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#3
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On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 14:51:38 -0500, Todd Lipcon
wrote: Next time you might try micing the piano from a little farther off for classical recording. Especially on a big instrument like a grand Bosendorfer, the sound needs a little bit of space to spread/mix acoustically before you get the mics on it. Assuming the room is good and not noisy, you might like the stereo image more if you mic from 6+ feet away. Right. Went to a live vs. recorded demo at Bosendorfer in Manhattan last week and they used a closely-spaced pair of omnis. The reproduced sound was just as muffled and congested as was the live since I was seated less than 6 feet from the piano. When I returned to the room from getting a glass of water, the sound of the piano at 15-20' was vastly superior. Kal |
#4
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wrote in message oups.com... just to relate a recent experience doing a piano and flute duo performing classical material. the piano is a 7'4" bosendorfer in the pianist's living room, so i had to track it on site. i used a spaced pair of DPA 4011s just outside the curve. the flute was recorded in my studio using a spaced pair of DPA 4006s and an ORTF pair of AKG c481s. all through millennia media HV3 pres. i started by mixing the piano as a hard LR panned image, which gives you the 50' wide piano effect, So why not pan the L and R tracks to give the stereo width of the piano a narrower focus ? geoff |
#5
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wrote:
[...] i guess i relay all this because in the past, i have never even considered micing a piano in mono, and virtually always have tracked solo instruments like flutes in stereo. This past week we had Pat Metheny on one of our shows with a bass player. After some noodling around with various stereo setups, Don (the mixer) decided that the best sound was both instruments mono dead centre with a little stereo 'verb. -- "It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!" - Lorin David Schultz in the control room making even bad news sound good (Remove spamblock to reply) |
#6
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Hi Lorin!
Bucky Burro is smiling and nodding his approval as if to say, "Ahhh, Lorin is finally catching on...." :) Mono rules! Cheers, Rick Novak. Lorin David Schultz wrote: This past week we had Pat Metheny on one of our shows with a bass player. After some noodling around with various stereo setups, Don (the mixer) decided that the best sound was both instruments mono dead centre with a little stereo 'verb. |
#7
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Hi jnorman
If you like I could send you a PDF on recording grand piano. It is based on my experience working with Oscar Peterson and Glenn Gould. I also have mp3's I could send kevin doyle |
#8
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hi kevin - thanks for the offer. yes, i'd like to read the pdf. you
can email it to me at jnorman34 at comcast.net. |
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