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#41
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
Is that all you can say? Untrue? How profound. How insightful.
In 1973, few people in the US had heard of Denon (Nippon Columbia). Their products were just starting to be sold. I was working at Stansbury's at the Reisterstown Road Plaza just outside Baltimore. A rep came in to get us to carry Denon products. They were crappy little compact systems. I verbally trashed him and sent him packing. After all, the first Denon products in this country were mass-market garbage Untrue. |
#42
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
That is still quite because the guy is asking for opinions,
not what his preference should be. No, he's asking us to tell him what to buy. He's looking to us as "experts" to give him the absolute truth so he can buy the "right" product. |
#43
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
I auditioned Denon, Yamaha, Sony and Marantz before I decided on the
Yamaha receiver for my home surround system. It sounded as good as units costing 4 times as much. It also has pre amp outs for all channels so I can bypass the Yamaha power amp. It has a very comprehensive feature set AND you can disable the DSP processing. Feature for feature I think that a $400-500 Yamaha is the way to go. Go to a Hi Fi store and audition them through the same set of speakers. Andrew M. wrote: Your DVD player can probably play CD's too so it's not a problem. I have a Yamaha receiver with 3 optical and one coax input. Arny Krueger wrote: "Jason Wong" wrote in message ... Have a couple more questions to add to this discussion after perusing through both operating manuals. 1) The specs for this Denon say 80W per channel, and the Yamaha 75W. Does this translate into a large difference? Not at all. 2) Does this Yamaha have no coaxial audio input for DVD? It appears to only have one for CD, and optical input for DVD only. I wonder if that makes me screwed because my DVD player has no optical audio output. Why worry about having two optical players? |
#44
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
Willie Sommerdork said: That is still quite because the guy is asking for opinions, not what his preference should be. No, he's asking us to tell him what to buy. He's looking to us as "experts" to give him the absolute truth so he can buy the "right" product. How's that egomania problem coming, Willie? |
#45
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 03:48:12 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote: It was the 303, I believe. Don't remember the alpha prefix. I remember when it came out ca. 1986 (?). It was the first CD player that got grudgingly favorable reviews. That was about the same time that the Denon DCD 1500 came out, with more than grudgingly favorable reviews. Oddly, the first CD player with any wide acceptance among anti-digital audiophiles was a not-very-expensive Yamaha. Untrue again. |
#46
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 03:52:15 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote: Is that all you can say? Untrue? How profound. How insightful. Well, you didn't say much more, now did you? In 1973, few people in the US had heard of Denon (Nippon Columbia). Their products were just starting to be sold. I was working at Stansbury's at the Reisterstown Road Plaza just outside Baltimore. A rep came in to get us to carry Denon products. They were crappy little compact systems. I verbally trashed him and sent him packing. And how do you know that they were the only Denon's being offered? They may have been simply what the rep thought Stansbury's was fit to sell. I believe, at that time, they also had what most people considered decent turntables. They had already sold the first PCM digital recorder to pro studios and had been selling one of the most renowned cartridges for years, the DL103, which I think is *still* being marketed today. I have no idea what their product mix was in 1973, but I would be surprised if it didn't include the same sort of mix (although probably downsized) than it did later on. BTW, just to show that I'm not totally biased, I'll note that my Denon receiver is having some switching problems at the moment as well as seemingly being unable to activate the subwoofer. Seems like the more "computerized" our receivers (and reliant on digital technology as well it seems), the more service problems we have to suffer with. After all, the first Denon products in this country were mass-market garbage Untrue. |
#47
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
dave weil wrote: On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 03:48:12 -0700, "William Sommerwerck" wrote: It was the 303, I believe. Don't remember the alpha prefix. I remember when it came out ca. 1986 (?). It was the first CD player that got grudgingly favorable reviews. That was about the same time that the Denon DCD 1500 came out, with more than grudgingly favorable reviews. Oddly, the first CD player with any wide acceptance among anti-digital audiophiles was a not-very-expensive Yamaha. Untrue again. Instead of just saying "untrue", why not back it up with some info? I for one am very interested. |
#48
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
"George M. Middius" wrote in message ... Willie Sommerdork said: That is still quite because the guy is asking for opinions, not what his preference should be. No, he's asking us to tell him what to buy. He's looking to us as "experts" to give him the absolute truth so he can buy the "right" product. How's that egomania problem coming, Willie? Willie should post on RAAT rec.audio.absolute.truth ----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
#49
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
Rob Adelman wrote:
William Sommerwerck wrote: Oddly, the first CD player with any wide acceptance among anti-digital audiophiles was a not-very-expensive Yamaha. Was that the natural sound series? I had a cassette deck and a tuner from this series. Yamaha basically introduced the first sigma-delta converters, using their "bitstream" chips. Unfortunately they didn't have the idle tone problems solved at that point and some of the whistles drove people up the wall, but it was clear that they sounded generally a whole lot better than the second-generation Philips 16-bit ladder DAC chipsets. On the other hand, the Yamaha AES/EBU interface chip set is responsible for a lot of the misconceptions about jitter that permeate the audiophile community these days. Lots of folks built devices with converters that didn't reclock and which used the internal PLL on the Yamaha chip to derive a nasty jitter-laden clock from the input signal. All -kinds- of things would change the sound on the output, even cable length. Not good. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#50
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
I love my Yamaha RX-V630
"Andrew M." wrote in message ... I auditioned Denon, Yamaha, Sony and Marantz before I decided on the Yamaha receiver for my home surround system. It sounded as good as units costing 4 times as much. It also has pre amp outs for all channels so I can bypass the Yamaha power amp. It has a very comprehensive feature set AND you can disable the DSP processing. Feature for feature I think that a $400-500 Yamaha is the way to go. Go to a Hi Fi store and audition them through the same set of speakers. Andrew M. wrote: Your DVD player can probably play CD's too so it's not a problem. I have a Yamaha receiver with 3 optical and one coax input. Arny Krueger wrote: "Jason Wong" wrote in message ... Have a couple more questions to add to this discussion after perusing through both operating manuals. 1) The specs for this Denon say 80W per channel, and the Yamaha 75W. Does this translate into a large difference? Not at all. 2) Does this Yamaha have no coaxial audio input for DVD? It appears to only have one for CD, and optical input for DVD only. I wonder if that makes me screwed because my DVD player has no optical audio output. Why worry about having two optical players? |
#51
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
Okay everyone, I thought I might put an end to this "heated" debate by
saying that I bought the Denon AVR-1603 yesterday. My choice was relatively simple; unfortunately I wasn't able to sample both at the same time, because they were being sold by separate dealers. But the dealer selling the Denon was able to give me $100 trade-in for my Pioneer dolby digital (non pro-logic II, non DTS), so I got the Denon for $400 CAN. I got the dealer to showcase the receiver with the same Paradigm Titan fronts that I currently own, and a CC-170 centre which I also eventually bought! Unfortunately the Yamaha dealer didn't have Paradigm speakers and their store and wouldn't offer me a tradein, so I never even got to test the unit out. In the end I think I got a steal because the 1603 was already marked down significantly because they were the last two units in the store. They said once they were gone, they'd get teh 1604s in which would sell back at regular price of around $650. So far I'm quite happy with the Denon. Finally listening to the DTS surround tracks on my DVDs makes a world of a difference. Unfortunately the numbers on the remote don't work in VCR mode, which is a shame because I use my VCR like a cable box to extend the limited channel range on my old TV. Oh well, I guess that means I'll have to upgrade my TV soon! Thanks for all the "opinions" strewn about in this thread. They were.... insightful. ;-) -- Jason |
#52
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
No offense, but blanket statements like that are just plain bad advice.
I understand you may have had some bad listening experiences with Yamaha 25 years ago, but the company has changed its product line just a little bit since then. I'm a fan of free speech, and you can continue saying whatever you like. But to write off an entire company is something that everyone here should take with a grain of salt - a very small grain. I have found the Yamaha line to be exceptional once you get above a certain price point. Their RX-V3000, 3300, V1, and Z1 receivers offer excceptional quality. The new Z9 set to be released any day now offers high-performance burr-brown 24-bit DACs for all 11 channels. While it lacks DVI switching, it all but eclipses separates in its price class in terms of quality and feature set. I can also say the same for the Denon 5803. As for your price point. Give them both a listen if you can, and see if you like to listen to DSP when you watch movies. If you do, then the Yamaha will have an edge. If you tastes are for mostly music, the Denon may sound better to you. - Clint DeBoer CD Media Website Design & Marketing www.cdmedia.com "William Sommerwerck" wrote in message ... Don't even THINK about buying anything Yamaha. Get the Denon. |
#53
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
Uh huh... Check out this positive Yamaha RX-Z1 review
http://www.audioholics.com/productre...haRXZ1-p1.html AH is one of the more popular [sans e-commerce] home theater review websites. While it's not a magazine, according to Alexa.com it gets more traffic than Sterophile.com and it doesn't have a magazine to market itself. Your 25 year old pre-DVD experience notwithstanding, I have never heard of Yamaha having a poor reputation, and we talk every week with reps from Denon, Onkyo, Integra Research, Tannoy, Sherbourn and Marantz to name a few... A quick glance at any of the online audiophile forums will also confirm this. No one dogs Yamaha except the elitists who listen to tube amps and buy $5000 speaker wire so their 30 year-old LPs sound "fruity". - Clint DeBoer CD Media Website Design & Marketing www.cdmedia.com "William Sommerwerck" wrote in message ... Don't even THINK about buying anything Yamaha. Get the Denon. Why? Because Yamaha has a terrible reputation. Few Yamaha products have ever gotten favorable reviews in the American audiophile magazines, whereas Denon and Onkyo products commonly do. Some of the worst-sounding surround products I reviewed for Stereophile were Yamaha. |
#54
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
A rep came in to get us to carry Denon products. They were crappy
little compact systems. I verbally trashed him and sent him packing. And how do you know that they were the only Denon's being offered? They may have been simply what the rep thought Stansbury's was fit to sell. I believe, at that time, they also had what most people considered decent turntables. They had already sold the first PCM digital recorder to pro studios and had been selling one of the most renowned cartridges for years, the DL103, which I think is *still* being marketed today. I have no idea what their product mix was in 1973, but I would be surprised if it didn't include the same sort of mix (although probably downsized) than it did later on. First of all, I don't believe Denon was selling professional PCM recorders to anyone, anywhere in 1973 (TICBW). And although their turntables and pickups might were no doubt popular in Japan, they were not then available in the US. By the way, I didn't much care for the 103, because (like many pickups from many companies) it has that broad "upper-midrange dip" that slightly deadens the sound. Otherwise, I like MCs a lot. Regardless... This question is easily resolved without further argument. When did Denon start exporting their products to the US? When were the first Denon audiophile products reviewed in American audiophile magazines? I don't think it was before 1975 or 1976. Anyone know for sure? Just to clarify a point... I did not state or mean to imply that, in 1973, Denon made _only_ crap. They certainly didn't. |
#55
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
Willie Sommerdork said:
That is still quite because the guy is asking for opinions, not what his preference should be. No, he's asking us to tell him what to buy. He's looking to us as "experts" to give him the absolute truth so he can buy the "right" product. How's that egomania problem coming, Willie? You're the one who thinks it's a problem. |
#56
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
Willie Sommerdork said: First of all, I don't believe Denon was selling professional PCM recorders to anyone, anywhere in 1973 (TICBW). "1971: LEF Denon demonstrates 18-bit PCM stereo recording using a helical-scan video recorder." http://www.lovesphere.org/mosr/timetable.shtml "1972: Developed the world's first PCM digital recorder for regular studio use, thus launching the digital audio revolution. Commenced sales of PCM records." http://www.usa.denon.com/info/history.asp I think you need to go verbally trash another sales rep. |
#57
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
Willie Sommerdork said: How's that egomania problem coming, Willie? You're the one who thinks it's a problem. Oh, you *like* being known as a stuck-up asshole. Fine with me. |
#58
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:49:57 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote: A rep came in to get us to carry Denon products. They were crappy little compact systems. I verbally trashed him and sent him packing. And how do you know that they were the only Denon's being offered? They may have been simply what the rep thought Stansbury's was fit to sell. I believe, at that time, they also had what most people considered decent turntables. They had already sold the first PCM digital recorder to pro studios and had been selling one of the most renowned cartridges for years, the DL103, which I think is *still* being marketed today. I have no idea what their product mix was in 1973, but I would be surprised if it didn't include the same sort of mix (although probably downsized) than it did later on. First of all, I don't believe Denon was selling professional PCM recorders to anyone, anywhere in 1973 (TICBW). Sure they were. "1972 Developed the world's first PCM digital recorder for regular studio use, thus launching the digital audio revolution. Commenced sales of PCM records". From their history site. And although their turntables and pickups might were no doubt popular in Japan, they were not then available in the US. AFAIK, their pickups *were* available here prior to 1973. By the way, I didn't much care for the 103, because (like many pickups from many companies) it has that broad "upper-midrange dip" that slightly deadens the sound. Otherwise, I like MCs a lot. Fine. Noted. Irrelevant, but noted nontheless. Regardless... This question is easily resolved without further argument. When did Denon start exporting their products to the US? When were the first Denon audiophile products reviewed in American audiophile magazines? I don't think it was before 1975 or 1976. Anyone know for sure? I couldn't tell you for sure. According to their history site, they started making hi-fi gear in 1971. Basically, you related a story based on your own limited knowledge. It might very well have been true, but you have no way of knowing for sure. In any case, they have offered a wide range of products over the years, with them mostly being known for their higher end products. It was only later that they seemed to make breakthroughs in lower end stuff. Just to clarify a point... I did not state or mean to imply that, in 1973, Denon made _only_ crap. They certainly didn't. I understood what you said and what you meant. That's why I responded the way that I did. You haven't offered any backing except to say that the rep offered you some mini-systems. As a former Denon rep, I know that I tailored my presentation to the sort of products that I thought matched the venue - I *never* offered *everything* to *everyone*. That could have certainly happened in your case as well. hell, Denon now sells dedicated products in Sears for god's sake (same receivers, different product numbers). Sears only gets a couple of items themselves. |
#59
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
Don't even THINK about buying anything
Yamaha. Get the Denon. Rubbish. If you want "opinion", listen to this poster. If you want helpful advice, listen to everyone else. Hmm. I only offer opinions. For the most part they're educated opinions but they are still opinions. That said, in my opinion the gentleman is wrong. I've owned and installed Denon and Yamaha equipment and I find Yamaha to be superior. My Yamaha RXV3000 is, for the money, among the best around. Regards, Robert ============================= Bass Home Electronics, Inc 2291 Pine View Circle Sarasota · Florida · 34231 877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support 941-925-9747 Fax 941-232-0791 Wireless Nextel Private ID - 161*21755*1 http://www.bass-home.com ============================= |
#60
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
That is still quite because the guy is asking for
opinions, not what his preference should be. No, he's asking us to tell him what to buy. He's looking to us as "experts" to give him the absolute truth so he can buy the "right" product. That's why I hate being called an expert on anything. There are very few absolute truths (other than Jesus being Lord). When it comes to what is best I can only say that I've listened to this or that product and found it pleasing for thus and such reasons. Audio is so subjective that there can be no absolute best product. Regards, Robert ============================= Bass Home Electronics, Inc 2291 Pine View Circle Sarasota · Florida · 34231 877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support 941-925-9747 Fax 941-232-0791 Wireless Nextel Private ID - 161*21755*1 http://www.bass-home.com ============================= |
#61
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
I understood what you said and what you meant. That's why I responded
the way that I did. You haven't offered any backing except to say that the rep offered you some mini-systems. As a former Denon rep, I know that I tailored my presentation to the sort of products that I thought matched the venue - I *never* offered *everything* to *everyone*. That could have certainly happened in your case as well. hell, Denon now sells dedicated products in Sears for god's sake (same receivers, different product numbers). Sears only gets a couple of items themselves. Thanks for the information and corrections. Stansbury was a photo/hi-fi chain in Baltimore. We sold "good" audio equipment -- Crown, Infinity, Bose (sorry about that), Shure, AR, KLH, etc. There was no place in our store for the sort of junk the rep offered. He had obviously not done his homework. |
#62
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
There are NO absolute truths.
Robert L. Bass wrote: That is still quite because the guy is asking for opinions, not what his preference should be. No, he's asking us to tell him what to buy. He's looking to us as "experts" to give him the absolute truth so he can buy the "right" product. That's why I hate being called an expert on anything. There are very few absolute truths (other than Jesus being Lord). When it comes to what is best I can only say that I've listened to this or that product and found it pleasing for thus and such reasons. Audio is so subjective that there can be no absolute best product. Regards, Robert ============================= Bass Home Electronics, Inc 2291 Pine View Circle Sarasota · Florida · 34231 877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support 941-925-9747 Fax 941-232-0791 Wireless Nextel Private ID - 161*21755*1 http://www.bass-home.com ============================= |
#63
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:26:46 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote: I understood what you said and what you meant. That's why I responded the way that I did. You haven't offered any backing except to say that the rep offered you some mini-systems. As a former Denon rep, I know that I tailored my presentation to the sort of products that I thought matched the venue - I *never* offered *everything* to *everyone*. That could have certainly happened in your case as well. hell, Denon now sells dedicated products in Sears for god's sake (same receivers, different product numbers). Sears only gets a couple of items themselves. Thanks for the information and corrections. Stansbury was a photo/hi-fi chain in Baltimore. We sold "good" audio equipment -- Crown, Infinity, Bose (sorry about that), Shure, AR, KLH, etc. There was no place in our store for the sort of junk the rep offered. He had obviously not done his homework. Apparently not. However, note that I'm not saying that you are wrong in your statement that that's all that Denon was offering, just that you are wrong in assuming it, if you catch my drift. You could be correct, but I can't find anything from that period that refers to the products that were being imported. Denon certainly has *never* imported even *half* of their line. A good portion stays in Japan, especially the *very* high dollar stuff. I'm merely speaking based on my knowledge of the Denon product mix from the 80s on, *and* knowing the culture of the company. For a long time during the late 80s, they shied away from lower end products, at least in terms of their marketing push. They've *always* hung their hat on the "higher end" market and have stayed away from the sort of wide product mix that even Yamaha has covered. |
#64
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
Robert L. Bass said: There are very few absolute truths (other than Jesus being Lord). puke Don't you have any common decency? Keep that garbage out of newsgroups where regular people participate. |
#65
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
"Marc Phillips" wrote in message ... William Sommerwerck said: I hold a BS EE, was at one time a serious amateur recordist, and reviewed for over a decade at Stereophile. I won't offend you by naming the people in the hi-fi industry who respect my opinion, whether or not they agree with me. In and of themselves, these things prove nothing, but I usually know what I'm talking about. Please...we don't need another Ferstler. Comparing Sommerwerck to Ferstler shows exactly how shallow and ignorant you are, Phillips. |
#66
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
"George M. Middius" wrote in message ... Robert L. Bass said: There are very few absolute truths (other than Jesus being Lord). puke Don't you have any common decency? Keep that garbage out of newsgroups where regular people participate. For the benefit of newbies, let me point out that Middius and his supporters like Phillips, Weil, and Phillips think that the pedophile fantasies he's posted on RAO on many occasions are good examples *decent* writing. |
#67
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
William Sommerwerck wrote:
I said Jason Wong said: I'm looking to upgrade to a new Pro Logic II receiver and am undecided between the Denon AVR-1603 or the Yamaha HTR-5550. I can get both for the same price of $400 CAN. I haven't been able to compare the two yet as they are sold by separate dealers where I'm from. Just wanted to get the audiophile's opinion on this one. Thanks! That is still quite because the guy is asking for opinions, not what his preference should be. No, he's asking us to tell him what to buy. That is still quite "quite". He's telling us that he is undecided which to buy between Denon and Yamaha because he hasn't been able to compare the two yet as they are sold by separate dealers where he's from. He's looking to us as "experts" to give him the absolute truth so he can buy the "right" product. Now that is really quite "quite". He's looking to us as "audiophiles" to get an audiophile's opinion so he can, perhaps, set his priorities or needs in drawing his own preferences. Mind you, do you think that you are an "expert" in giving him the "Absolute Truth" about his prefernces and what would sound good to him? |
#68
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
However, note that I'm not saying that you are wrong in your statement
that that's all that Denon was offering, just that you are wrong in assuming it, if you catch my drift. You could be correct, but I can't find anything from that period that refers to the products that were being imported. Denon certainly has *never* imported even *half* of their line. A good portion stays in Japan, especially the *very* high dollar stuff. I'm merely speaking based on my knowledge of the Denon product mix from the 80s on, *and* knowing the culture of the company. For a long time during the late 80s, they shied away from lower end products, at least in terms of their marketing push. They've *always* hung their hat on the "higher end" market and have stayed away from the sort of wide product mix that even Yamaha has covered. Agreed on every point. I don't remember "good" Denon stuff until the mid and late '70s. A search of Audio and other hi-fi mags of that era would resolve the question, but I don't have them at hand. |
#69
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
I apologize for mis-remembering what I read.
The question could have been a bit more "specific," but it was NOT a vague "which is best" question, which I detest. Sorry about that. I should point out, however, that it's unlikely anyone in this group has had direct experience with inexpensive AV receivers. Opinions are more likely to be based on general impressions of Denon and Yamaha, or experiences with _other_ Denon and Yamaha products. I'm looking to upgrade to a new Pro Logic II receiver and am undecided between the Denon AVR-1603 or the Yamaha HTR-5550. I can get both for the same price of $400 CAN. I haven't been able to compare the two yet as they are sold by separate dealers where I'm from. Just wanted to get the audiophile's opinion on this one. Thanks! |
#70
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
"hawke" wrote in message ... I have found the Yamaha line to be exceptional once you get above a certain price point. Their RX-V3000, 3300, V1, and Z1 receivers offer excceptional quality. The new Z9 set to be released any day now offers high-performance burr-brown 24-bit DACs for all 11 channels. While it lacks DVI switching, it all but eclipses separates in its price class in terms of quality and feature set. The Z9 is FINALLY going to be a worthy contender since they now have adopted THX. Espen B |
#71
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
geeez guys, it's just a receiver for crying out loud..
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#72
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
"Jason Wong" wrote in message om... Okay everyone, I thought I might put an end to this "heated" debate by saying that I bought the Denon AVR-1603 yesterday. My choice was relatively simple; unfortunately I wasn't able to sample both at the same time, because they were being sold by separate dealers. But the dealer selling the Denon was able to give me $100 trade-in for my Pioneer dolby digital (non pro-logic II, non DTS), so I got the Denon for $400 CAN. I got the dealer to showcase the receiver with the same Paradigm Titan fronts that I currently own, and a CC-170 centre which I also eventually bought! Unfortunately the Yamaha dealer didn't have Paradigm speakers and their store and wouldn't offer me a tradein, so I never even got to test the unit out. In the end I think I got a steal because the 1603 was already marked down significantly because they were the last two units in the store. They said once they were gone, they'd get teh 1604s in which would sell back at regular price of around $650. So far I'm quite happy with the Denon. Finally listening to the DTS surround tracks on my DVDs makes a world of a difference. Unfortunately the numbers on the remote don't work in VCR mode, which is a shame because I use my VCR like a cable box to extend the limited channel range on my old TV. Oh well, I guess that means I'll have to upgrade my TV soon! Thanks for all the "opinions" strewn about in this thread. They were.... insightful. ;-) But useless in making your decision -- Jason |
#73
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:39:44 +0200, "Espen Braathen"
wrote: "hawke" wrote in message m... I have found the Yamaha line to be exceptional once you get above a certain price point. Their RX-V3000, 3300, V1, and Z1 receivers offer excceptional quality. The new Z9 set to be released any day now offers high-performance burr-brown 24-bit DACs for all 11 channels. While it lacks DVI switching, it all but eclipses separates in its price class in terms of quality and feature set. The Z9 is FINALLY going to be a worthy contender since they now have adopted THX. THX is no guarantee of worthiness, but is often a guarantee of a licensing fee to increase the cost of a piece of equipment. the Z9 is certainly a nice looking unit, and would be equally nice without the THX stamp on the front Grant Kinsley MD Espen B |
#74
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
Arny said:
"Marc Phillips" wrote in message ... William Sommerwerck said: I hold a BS EE, was at one time a serious amateur recordist, and reviewed for over a decade at Stereophile. I won't offend you by naming the people in the hi-fi industry who respect my opinion, whether or not they agree with me. In and of themselves, these things prove nothing, but I usually know what I'm talking about. Please...we don't need another Ferstler. Comparing Sommerwerck to Ferstler shows exactly how shallow and ignorant you are, Phillips. Not bothering to explain why shows how completely idiotic you are, Krueger. Boon |
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
William Sommerwerck wrote:
I apologize for mis-remembering what I read. ... Sorry about that. You're excused. |
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
Arny said:
"Marc Phillips" wrote in message ... Arny said: "Marc Phillips" wrote in message ... William Sommerwerck said: I hold a BS EE, was at one time a serious amateur recordist, and reviewed for over a decade at Stereophile. I won't offend you by naming the people in the hi-fi industry who respect my opinion, whether or not they agree with me. In and of themselves, these things prove nothing, but I usually know what I'm talking about. Please...we don't need another Ferstler. Comparing Sommerwerck to Ferstler shows exactly how shallow and ignorant you are, Phillips. Not bothering to explain why shows how completely idiotic you are, Krueger. For RAO regulars with at least normal intelligence, all that is required is a quick mental comparison of Sommerwerk's qualifications and Ferstler's. Bull****. Now you're just stalling because you can't explain what you mean. Given that you've just admitted to subnormal intelligence Phillips, what can I do to help you with solving this simple problem that is obviously vexing you? More nonsense. What a pussy. Just be accountable for what you say, that's all. Boon |
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
There are NO absolute truths.
I used to think that was true, too. Then one day I met Someone who changed my point of view. |
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
"Leadfoot" wrote in message news:S1pcb.1582$hp5.655@fed1read04...
But useless in making your decision Oh absolutely! I mean comeon guys, who CARES what Denon did in the 1970s!!!! Does that all matter, especially considering my original post asked for opinions over one Denon model vs a Yamaha one? I hardly think Denons rep back in the "late 70s and early 80s" has anything to do with the AVR-1603. I don't know how a simple question from a first-time poster could have ballooned into one hell of a large thread, but it seems like some of you guys need to find a better outlet to vent your argumentative and petty nature than wasting space in the newsgroups. Save yourselves the time typing, you'll thank me later when you avoid getting carpal tunnel syndrome. |
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
Oh absolutely! I mean comeon guys, who CARES
what Denon did in the 1970s!!!! Does that all matter, especially considering my original post asked for opinions over one Denon model vs a Yamaha one? Welcome to USENET. :^) |
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Denon vs Yamaha receiver
"Jason Wong" wrote in message om... "Leadfoot" wrote in message news:S1pcb.1582$hp5.655@fed1read04... But useless in making your decision Oh absolutely! I mean comeon guys, who CARES what Denon did in the 1970s!!!! Does that all matter, especially considering my original post asked for opinions over one Denon model vs a Yamaha one? I hardly think Denons rep back in the "late 70s and early 80s" has anything to do with the AVR-1603. I don't know how a simple question from a first-time poster could have ballooned into one hell of a large thread, but it seems like some of you guys need to find a better outlet to vent your argumentative and petty nature than wasting space in the newsgroups. Save yourselves the time typing, you'll thank me later when you avoid getting carpal tunnel syndrome. Take 1 This audiophile says Denons have better base and Yamahas have better surround processors. But if you wait until you can up your budget by, ahem, 100%, you can get the best of both worlds with inexpensive separates. Plus a few more cables, of course Take 2 I'm not an audiophile, per se, but from what I've read, heard and experienced, George is spot on about Denons producing a better bass sound and Yamaha being the better sound processor. At that price range, you should go for the Yamaha because it sounds like you'd probably have lower-end speakers that won't handle bass too well anyhow, so might as well go for the better overall sound. Take 3 I have a Yamaha 5550, and love it to bits. It's my first system, and I was working to a budget (no sub) but it's great for the money. Having quickly looked at the Denon specs (and obviously exhibting bias here), if it bothers you, neither amp has true 6.1 outputs, but while the Denon doesn't appear to have any 6.1 capability, the 5550 can handle 6.1 inputs by converting them to 5.1 and using a 'virtual' 6th speaker (which basically means output from the two rear surrounds). It's not ideal, but it does work surprisingly well My DVD player only had coaxial output, and after being initially concerned, I found this isn't something to worry about at all. Yes it has coaxial input, but not for the default DVD channel. I think the default coaxial input is CD. However, it's *very* easy to reconfigure the input labels in the menu system so that the DVD signal is read from the coaxial input. The manual tells you how to do it. The remote is good, though how compatible you can make it with your other equipment will depend upon the make of equipment. It works brilliantly with my Sony DVD, but not at all with my, ahem, Schneider TV. Matrix 6.1, changing inputs, and remote configuration are all in the manual. Take 4 1) The specs for this Denon say 80W per channel, and the Yamaha 75W. Does this translate into a large difference? It translates into no difference. Take 5 1) The specs for this Denon say 80W per channel, and the Yamaha 75W. Does this translate into a large difference? Not at all. 2) Does this Yamaha have no coaxial audio input for DVD? It appears to only have one for CD, and optical input for DVD only. I wonder if that makes me screwed because my DVD player has no optical audio output. Why worry about having two optical players? Take 6 I auditioned Denon, Yamaha, Sony and Marantz before I decided on the Yamaha receiver for my home surround system. It sounded as good as units costing 4 times as much. It also has pre amp outs for all channels so I can bypass the Yamaha power amp. It has a very comprehensive feature set AND you can disable the DSP processing. Feature for feature I think that a $400-500 Yamaha is the way to go. Go to a Hi Fi store and audition them through the same set of speakers. Take 7 Don't even THINK about buying anything Yamaha. Get the Denon Note: this isn't an opinion supported by anything the author wanted to add Take 8 Because Yamaha has a terrible reputation. Few Yamaha products have ever gotten favorable reviews in the American audiophile magazines, whereas Denon and Onkyo products commonly do. Some of the worst-sounding surround products I reviewed for Stereophile were Yamaha Take 9 Wow, talk about praising with faint damns. Of the two units named, the original poster should buy the one which has the most features he wants. Since he specifically mentioned that he's interested in Pro Logic II, one thing to check into is the configurability of the Pro Logic II mode. It's not price-correlated. I have a Yammy 5540 and a Harmon Kardon AVR520; the latter cost several hundred more than the former, and has more features and power, but happens to be *less* configurable in DPL II made than the Yammy. The Yammies allow you to adjust 'panorama' and a few other user-configurable features of DPL II , whereas the H-K has a 'fixed' DPL II config. Don't know about the Denon Take 10 Hmm. I only offer opinions. For the most part they're educated opinions but they are still opinions. That said, in my opinion the gentleman is wrong. I've owned and installed Denon and Yamaha equipment and I find Yamaha to be superior. My Yamaha RXV3000 is, for the money, among the best around. Take 11 No offense, but blanket statements like that are just plain bad advice. I understand you may have had some bad listening experiences with Yamaha 25 years ago, but the company has changed its product line just a little bit since then. I'm a fan of free speech, and you can continue saying whatever you like. But to write off an entire company is something that everyone here should take with a grain of salt - a very small grain. I have found the Yamaha line to be exceptional once you get above a certain price point. Their RX-V3000, 3300, V1, and Z1 receivers offer excceptional quality. The new Z9 set to be released any day now offers high-performance burr-brown 24-bit DACs for all 11 channels. While it lacks DVI switching, it all but eclipses separates in its price class in terms of quality and feature set. I can also say the same for the Denon 5803. As for your price point. Give them both a listen if you can, and see if you like to listen to DSP when you watch movies. If you do, then the Yamaha will have an edge. If you tastes are for mostly music, the Denon may sound better to you. end of takes After weeding out the chaff you had 11 good takes on your question which seemed to be in the Yamaha's favor slightly. However your decision was made based on this statement. "Unfortunately the Yamaha dealer didn't have Paradigm speakers and their store and wouldn't offer me a tradein, so I never even got to test the unit out." It appears you made your decision primarily on price and (maybe) the Yamaha dealers lack of foresight in having demo speakers that matched your own. As it is I have a Ymaha RX-V630 I'm very happy with. I didn't weigh on this topic because I haven't played with a denon receiver. Denon was in the running when I decided to upgrade I just found they were just a little too expensive vs the yamaha I was comparing them too |
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