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#1
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Zoom H6
Was it in this group that I read some critical information about the Zoom H6
recorder? Something about distortion in the ADC-DAC area. I am also thinking that I read somewhere that they have corrected the circuitry for much better sound than in the original I don't remember the actual name of who said it or when. Gary Eickmeier |
#2
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Zoom H6
Gary Eickmeier wrote:
Was it in this group that I read some critical information about the Zoom H6 recorder? Something about distortion in the ADC-DAC area. I am also thinking that I read somewhere that they have corrected the circuitry for much better sound than in the original I don't remember the actual name of who said it or when. I don't know if this is what you're referring to, but the input stages have very little headroom (which isn't surprising considering they're running on very low voltage rails with battery power). So it is possible to set the gains low and clip the hell out of the inputs without the meters coming anywhere near full scale. Set on line input, a normal +4 input will severely clip, and a -10 consumer input is likely to clip. Adding an external pad will fix it. Don't just watch the meters, listen to the output too. Your ears will tell you when everything is okay. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#3
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Zoom H6
On 01/12/2016 14:31, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Gary Eickmeier wrote: Was it in this group that I read some critical information about the Zoom H6 recorder? Something about distortion in the ADC-DAC area. I am also thinking that I read somewhere that they have corrected the circuitry for much better sound than in the original I don't remember the actual name of who said it or when. I don't know if this is what you're referring to, but the input stages have very little headroom (which isn't surprising considering they're running on very low voltage rails with battery power). So it is possible to set the gains low and clip the hell out of the inputs without the meters coming anywhere near full scale. Set on line input, a normal +4 input will severely clip, and a -10 consumer input is likely to clip. Adding an external pad will fix it. Don't just watch the meters, listen to the output too. Your ears will tell you when everything is okay. --scott I don't know if it's all or even any of their devices, but I heard that some of the Zoom range do the attenuation for the built in mic sensitivity control) in the digital domain after the ADC. Or was that just a nasty rumour? I've never used one anywhere I needed to cut the mic gain down, so I've no experience of nastiness caused by that. -- Tciao for Now! John. |
#4
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Zoom H6
On 12/1/2016 9:31 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
I don't know if this is what you're referring to, but the input stages have very little headroom (which isn't surprising considering they're running on very low voltage rails with battery power). So it is possible to set the gains low and clip the hell out of the inputs without the meters coming anywhere near full scale. Set on line input, a normal +4 input will severely clip, and a -10 consumer input is likely to clip. Adding an external pad will fix it. The Zoom H2 and H4 were like this but by the time the H4n (which is still a current model) came along, they fixed this. With the H4n that I tested, I could put +28 dBu into the line input, turn the record level control down so that the meters were reading below 0 dFS and not have clipping. I don't remember how much level the mic inputs will take without clipping, but it was more than enough so that this shouldn't be concern as long as the meters aren't pegged. What I do recall is that the analog output stage will clip when playing a 0 dBFS recording with the output level turned up full, even running into an open circuit. So if you're monitoring at a sufficiently too-loud level, you could hear clipping even though the recording isn't clipped. Everybody who has one of these things should experiment with them and learn their limits. Everybody who has one of these things should also have some test equipment. That's the rub. -- For a good time, call http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com |
#5
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Zoom H6
In article , Mike Rivers wrote:
On 12/1/2016 9:31 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote: I don't know if this is what you're referring to, but the input stages have very little headroom (which isn't surprising considering they're running on very low voltage rails with battery power). So it is possible to set the gains low and clip the hell out of the inputs without the meters coming anywhere near full scale. The Zoom H2 and H4 were like this but by the time the H4n (which is still a current model) came along, they fixed this. With the H4n that I tested, I could put +28 dBu into the line input, turn the record level control down so that the meters were reading below 0 dFS and not have clipping. I don't remember how much level the mic inputs will take without clipping, but it was more than enough so that this shouldn't be concern as long as the meters aren't pegged. Try the mike input! It's much more touchy, easily as much as the old Tascam DA-P20 was. The H6 is a whole lot better than the H2 and H4 were, but you still have to be careful with gain structure. What I do recall is that the analog output stage will clip when playing a 0 dBFS recording with the output level turned up full, even running into an open circuit. So if you're monitoring at a sufficiently too-loud level, you could hear clipping even though the recording isn't clipped. Now that's one I haven't seen, but then I never used the H6 for serious playback either. Everybody who has one of these things should experiment with them and learn their limits. Everybody who has one of these things should also have some test equipment. That's the rub. That's just how audio is. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#6
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Zoom H6
On 2/12/2016 1:31 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
I don't know if this is what you're referring to, but the input stages have very little headroom (which isn't surprising considering they're running on very low voltage rails with battery power). So it is possible to set the gains low and clip the hell out of the inputs without the meters coming anywhere near full scale. Set on line input, a normal +4 input will severely clip, and a -10 consumer input is likely to clip. Adding an external pad will fix it. Don't just watch the meters, listen to the output too. Your ears will tell you when everything is okay. So without very high isolation headphones you have no way of knowing about minor clipping when recording then? Trevor. |
#7
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Zoom H6
On 2/12/2016 10:10 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
In article , Mike Rivers wrote: What I do recall is that the analog output stage will clip when playing a 0 dBFS recording with the output level turned up full, even running into an open circuit. So if you're monitoring at a sufficiently too-loud level, you could hear clipping even though the recording isn't clipped. Now that's one I haven't seen, but then I never used the H6 for serious playback either. Serious playback would include monitoring the recording as you suggested to avoid clipping the inputs. Rather defeats that purpose if the output is clipping instead! Trevor. |
#8
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Zoom H6
On 12/2/2016 12:40 AM, Trevor wrote:
So without very high isolation headphones you have no way of knowing about minor clipping when recording then? It's easy. You learn how your recorder's meters respond, and use them as your guide to setting the record level. What I learned about my Zoom H2 was that if I had to turn the record level down below 100 (on a scale of 0-127) in order to keep the meters from hitting full scale, I was likely to have clipping if I didn't attenuate the level going in. I built an attenuator box to drop the level to the external line/mic input jack. When using the built-in mics, the attenuation switch usually takes care of it. If it's too loud to not clip at the low gain setting, then I don't want to stand there holding the recorder. -- For a good time, call http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com |
#9
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Zoom H6
In article , Trevor wrote:
On 2/12/2016 1:31 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote: I don't know if this is what you're referring to, but the input stages have very little headroom (which isn't surprising considering they're running on very low voltage rails with battery power). So it is possible to set the gains low and clip the hell out of the inputs without the meters coming anywhere near full scale. Set on line input, a normal +4 input will severely clip, and a -10 consumer input is likely to clip. Adding an external pad will fix it. Don't just watch the meters, listen to the output too. Your ears will tell you when everything is okay. So without very high isolation headphones you have no way of knowing about minor clipping when recording then? Well, the alternative is to learn about your gain structure in advance. With the DA P-20, I learned never to have the master gain control below 4 with a microphone input... --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#10
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Zoom H6
On Fri, 2 Dec 2016 07:40:04 -0500, Mike Rivers
wrote: On 12/2/2016 12:40 AM, Trevor wrote: So without very high isolation headphones you have no way of knowing about minor clipping when recording then? It's easy. You learn how your recorder's meters respond, and use them as your guide to setting the record level. What I learned about my Zoom H2 was that if I had to turn the record level down below 100 (on a scale of 0-127) in order to keep the meters from hitting full scale, I was likely to have clipping if I didn't attenuate the level going in. I built an attenuator box to drop the level to the external line/mic input jack. When using the built-in mics, the attenuation switch usually takes care of it. If it's too loud to not clip at the low gain setting, then I don't want to stand there holding the recorder. Exactly the same with Sony's DAT Walkman. The advice from the guys at Oade was to plug the mic into Line In if the record level had to be turned down very far below max. This should not be happening any more as it is so easy to generate a decent rail voltage from batteries. Switch-mode power supplies really are that good now. d --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus |
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