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#1
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Help with a vintage Marantz receiver problem
I've a Marantz 2240B that drifts on the FM with warm up over about 30
minutes. Seems to be stable after warm-up. I first thought it was the regulated 13.2 volts but substituted an external voltage source and that made no difference. I gently blew the dust off the tuning cap. Being solid state there really isn't much of a warm-up so I am lost.... Anyone got any ideas how to isolate the problem? wb |
#2
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Help with a vintage Marantz receiver problem
When parts become temperature sensitive with age, it does not take much
to have drift, especially in the frequency range used for FM reception. It is very possible that one of the small caps, or resistors, or the local oscillator transistor itself is changing value. A tech with a lot of experience in high frequency RF troubleshooting can easily service this for you. I would not recommend for you to mess around in the front end of your receiver, unless you really know what you are doing, and have the necessary test gear to know exactly what is going on. This section is so sensitive, that re-soldering components can change the tuning of it. After replacing the defective parts, tech should do a re-calibration of the front end to make sure that it is performing to specs. -- Jerry G. "wß" wrote in message ... I've a Marantz 2240B that drifts on the FM with warm up over about 30 minutes. Seems to be stable after warm-up. I first thought it was the regulated 13.2 volts but substituted an external voltage source and that made no difference. I gently blew the dust off the tuning cap. Being solid state there really isn't much of a warm-up so I am lost.... Anyone got any ideas how to isolate the problem? wb |
#3
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Help with a vintage Marantz receiver problem
"wß" I've a Marantz 2240B that drifts on the FM with warm up over about 30 minutes. Seems to be stable after warm-up. ** FM tuners all drift with temperature, excepting the newer ones with synthesised frequency control. I first thought it was the regulated 13.2 volts but substituted an external voltage source and that made no difference. I gently blew the dust off the tuning cap. Being solid state there really isn't much of a warm-up so I am lost.... Anyone got any ideas how to isolate the problem? ** What problem exactly ? How much does it drift ? A drift of say 100kHz to 200 kHz from cold would be good performance - consistent with an oscillator stability of 100 to 200 ppm per degree C. Most tuners have an AFC button to fix this. ........ Phil |
#4
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Help with a vintage Marantz receiver problem
"wß" wrote in message ... I've a Marantz 2240B that drifts on the FM with warm up over about 30 minutes. Seems to be stable after warm-up. I first thought it was the regulated 13.2 volts but substituted an external voltage source and that made no difference. I gently blew the dust off the tuning cap. Being solid state there really isn't much of a warm-up so I am lost.... Anyone got any ideas how to isolate the problem? wb **This is a major PITA. The old Marantz tuners and receivers were fitted with carefully selected capacitors, whose temperature drift was precisely chosen to complement the drift in the associated coils. They were impossible to buy from Marantz back in the 1970s, so would be difficult to obtain now. I solved the problem in a few units, by building a crystal locked AFC circuit. Expensive, but worth it for the models I performed the mod on. Realistically, I suggest you forget it, as it is too difficult a problem to solve. -- Trevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
#5
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Help with a vintage Marantz receiver problem
Trevor Wilson wrote:
"wß" wrote in message ... I've a Marantz 2240B that drifts on the FM with warm up over about 30 minutes. Seems to be stable after warm-up. I first thought it was the regulated 13.2 volts but substituted an external voltage source and that made no difference. I gently blew the dust off the tuning cap. Being solid state there really isn't much of a warm-up so I am lost.... Anyone got any ideas how to isolate the problem? wb **This is a major PITA. The old Marantz tuners and receivers were fitted with carefully selected capacitors, whose temperature drift was precisely chosen to complement the drift in the associated coils. They were impossible to buy from Marantz back in the 1970s, so would be difficult to obtain now. I solved the problem in a few units, by building a crystal locked AFC circuit. Expensive, but worth it for the models I performed the mod on. Realistically, I suggest you forget it, as it is too difficult a problem to solve. -- Trevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au Try freeze-mist to help locate the temperature-sensitive component (probably a capacitor). I think most FM tuner sections had AFC circuits, though most stereo receivers DID NOT have defeatable switches for this once PLL circuits evolved. Could be an AFC / PLL problem more than a front-end or local oscillator problem. Mark Z. |
#6
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Help with a vintage Marantz receiver problem
"Mark D. Zacharias" Try freeze-mist to help locate the temperature-sensitive component (probably a capacitor). ** Ignore this asinine fool. He has no comprehension of oscillator circuits. I think most FM tuner sections had AFC circuits, though most stereo receivers DID NOT have defeatable switches for this once PLL circuits evolved. ** PLL frequency synthesisers ELIMINATE the need for AFC completely. Could be an AFC / PLL problem more than a front-end or local oscillator problem. ** Or just NORMAL warm up drift. ........ Phil |
#7
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Help with a vintage Marantz receiver problem
Phil Allison wrote:
"wß" I've a Marantz 2240B that drifts on the FM with warm up over about 30 minutes. Seems to be stable after warm-up. ** FM tuners all drift with temperature, excepting the newer ones with synthesised frequency control. Of my collection this is the only one that drifts. In fact, when I was in the business, the only ones I ever recall with a drift problem was one or two Fisher's with the varactor tuning crap. I first thought it was the regulated 13.2 volts but substituted an external voltage source and that made no difference. I gently blew the dust off the tuning cap. Being solid state there really isn't much of a warm-up so I am lost.... Anyone got any ideas how to isolate the problem? ** What problem exactly ? Uhhhhm, that would be the drifting off center frequency problem... How much does it drift ? Considering that the bandwidth of an FM broadcast channel is ±75KHz I would guess that it is wandering high between 25 and 45 KHz as the clarity of sound isn't much affected but of course the mute will kick in. A drift of say 100kHz to 200 kHz from cold would be good performance - consistent with an oscillator stability of 100 to 200 ppm per degree C. Not in my world! Although I suppose it depends on what you call cold and hot. Within a designed operating temperature range I expect an oscillator to be on frequency. Most tuners have an AFC button to fix this. Yeah, Yeah I know. I suppose but Vintage Marantz receivers worked pretty well without. I am partial to the type Radio Shack used. The Accutune, I think it was called, switched off when you touched the tuning knob. Nice touch. ....... Phil I've already spent too much time on this post... .... wb |
#8
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Help with a vintage Marantz receiver problem
Trevor Wilson wrote:
"wß" wrote in message ... I've a Marantz 2240B that drifts on the FM with warm up over about 30 minutes. Seems to be stable after warm-up. I first thought it was the regulated 13.2 volts but substituted an external voltage source and that made no difference. I gently blew the dust off the tuning cap. Being solid state there really isn't much of a warm-up so I am lost.... Anyone got any ideas how to isolate the problem? wb **This is a major PITA. The old Marantz tuners and receivers were fitted with carefully selected capacitors, whose temperature drift was precisely chosen to complement the drift in the associated coils. They were impossible to buy from Marantz back in the 1970s, so would be difficult to obtain now. I solved the problem in a few units, by building a crystal locked AFC circuit. Expensive, but worth it for the models I performed the mod on. Realistically, I suggest you forget it, as it is too difficult a problem to solve. Thanks for the tip. Maybe I'll swap out the front end and not obsess over it. If I can find a cheap doner unit on eBay... |
#9
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Help with a vintage Marantz receiver problem
Mark D. Zacharias wrote:
Trevor Wilson wrote: "wß" wrote in message ... I've a Marantz 2240B that drifts on the FM with warm up over about 30 minutes. Seems to be stable after warm-up. I first thought it was the regulated 13.2 volts but substituted an external voltage source and that made no difference. I gently blew the dust off the tuning cap. Being solid state there really isn't much of a warm-up so I am lost.... Anyone got any ideas how to isolate the problem? wb **This is a major PITA. The old Marantz tuners and receivers were fitted with carefully selected capacitors, whose temperature drift was precisely chosen to complement the drift in the associated coils. They were impossible to buy from Marantz back in the 1970s, so would be difficult to obtain now. I solved the problem in a few units, by building a crystal locked AFC circuit. Expensive, but worth it for the models I performed the mod on. Realistically, I suggest you forget it, as it is too difficult a problem to solve. -- Trevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au Try freeze-mist to help locate the temperature-sensitive component (probably a capacitor). I think most FM tuner sections had AFC circuits, though most stereo receivers DID NOT have defeatable switches for this once PLL circuits evolved. Could be an AFC / PLL problem more than a front-end or local oscillator problem. Mark Z. I would need a very tiny tube to make freeze-mist type diagnostics, but thanks for the thought. Yeah, I wish it was in the AFC loop. But there is none. The only connection from the FE to the IF strip is the IF output from the FE. This could be a problem with the ratio-detector, I suppose, but I was just hoping that maybe this was somewhat of a commonly observed problem. |
#10
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Help with a vintage Marantz receiver problem
"wß" I've a Marantz 2240B that drifts on the FM with warm up over about 30 minutes. Seems to be stable after warm-up. ** FM tuners all drift with temperature, excepting the newer ones with synthesised frequency control. Of my collection this is the only one that drifts. ** You are clearly a damn liar. I first thought it was the regulated 13.2 volts but substituted an external voltage source and that made no difference. I gently blew the dust off the tuning cap. Being solid state there really isn't much of a warm-up so I am lost.... Anyone got any ideas how to isolate the problem? ** What problem exactly ? Uhhhhm, that would be the drifting off center frequency problem... ** Wot a smartarse liar. How much does it drift ? Considering that the bandwidth of an FM broadcast channel is ±75KHz I would guess that it is wandering high between 25 and 45 KHz as the clarity of sound isn't much affected but of course the mute will kick in. ** That is a very small drift. Typical of a good VHF oscillator, uncorrected by AFC, during warm up. A drift of say 100kHz to 200 kHz from cold would be good performance - consistent with an oscillator stability of 100 to 200 ppm per degree C. Not in my world! ** So this lying asshole lives on another planet. Suspected as much. Although I suppose it depends on what you call cold and hot. Within a designed operating temperature range I expect an oscillator to be on frequency. ** Expect all you like - asshole. Most tuners have an AFC button to fix this. Yeah, Yeah I know. ** Then stop being a PRICK and realise there IS a very basic reason for them. I suppose but Vintage Marantz receivers worked pretty well without. ** As does your 2240B - ****wit. ........ Phil |
#11
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Help with a vintage Marantz receiver problem
"wß" Thanks for the tip. Maybe I'll swap out the front end and not obsess over it. If I can find a cheap doner unit on eBay... ** Go ahead - make my day ... You pathetic bloody ******. ......... Phil |
#12
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Help with a vintage Marantz receiver problem
"Mark D. Zacharias" wrote in message . net... Trevor Wilson wrote: "wß" wrote in message ... I've a Marantz 2240B that drifts on the FM with warm up over about 30 minutes. Seems to be stable after warm-up. I first thought it was the regulated 13.2 volts but substituted an external voltage source and that made no difference. I gently blew the dust off the tuning cap. Being solid state there really isn't much of a warm-up so I am lost.... Anyone got any ideas how to isolate the problem? wb **This is a major PITA. The old Marantz tuners and receivers were fitted with carefully selected capacitors, whose temperature drift was precisely chosen to complement the drift in the associated coils. They were impossible to buy from Marantz back in the 1970s, so would be difficult to obtain now. I solved the problem in a few units, by building a crystal locked AFC circuit. Expensive, but worth it for the models I performed the mod on. Realistically, I suggest you forget it, as it is too difficult a problem to solve. -- Trevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au Try freeze-mist to help locate the temperature-sensitive component (probably a capacitor). I think most FM tuner sections had AFC circuits, though most stereo receivers DID NOT have defeatable switches for this once PLL circuits evolved. Could be an AFC / PLL problem more than a front-end or local oscillator problem. **Marantz never used AFC in their tuners, back then. PLL was only used for stereo FM decoding, as was normal practice. -- Trevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
#13
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Help with a vintage Marantz receiver problem
Phil Allison wrote:
"Mark D. Zacharias" Try freeze-mist to help locate the temperature-sensitive component (probably a capacitor). ** Ignore this asinine fool. He has no comprehension of oscillator circuits. I think most FM tuner sections had AFC circuits, though most stereo receivers DID NOT have defeatable switches for this once PLL circuits evolved. ** PLL frequency synthesisers ELIMINATE the need for AFC completely. Could be an AFC / PLL problem more than a front-end or local oscillator problem. ** Or just NORMAL warm up drift. ....... Phil Excuse me Phil, I have personally found temperature sensitive capacitors this way, fixing for example Pioneer receivers with drift problems. I sort of run these circuits together - PLL, AFC, etc. Sorry I wasn't more clear. "normal warmup drift" is exactly what PLL was designed to eliminate. I used to have a Heath AJ-41 tube tuner which had the phase control on the front panel. Needed to be re-adjusted after a few minutes warmup. I've owned and used dozens of solid state tuners over the years and never seen a properly funtioning one require more than the most miniscule re-tuning after warmup. Mark Z. |
#14
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Help with a vintage Marantz receiver problem
"Mark D. Zacharias" Try freeze-mist to help locate the temperature-sensitive component (probably a capacitor). ** Ignore this asinine fool. He has no comprehension of oscillator circuits. I think most FM tuner sections had AFC circuits, though most stereo receivers DID NOT have defeatable switches for this once PLL circuits evolved. ** PLL frequency synthesisers ELIMINATE the need for AFC completely. Could be an AFC / PLL problem more than a front-end or local oscillator problem. ** Or just NORMAL warm up drift. Excuse me Phil, I have personally found temperature sensitive capacitors this way, fixing for example Pioneer receivers with drift problems. ** But not frequency drift inherent in the local oscillator itself. I sort of run these circuits together - PLL, AFC, etc. ** The tuner in the receiver concerned HAS no AFC. I've owned and used dozens of solid state tuners over the years and never seen a properly funtioning one require more than the most miniscule re-tuning after warmup. ** That is only true for those tuners that simply do not warm up - ie where the unit remains at room temp whether on or off. ........ Phil |
#15
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Help with a vintage Marantz receiver problem
In article , none wrote:
I've a Marantz 2240B that drifts on the FM with warm up over about 30 minutes. Seems to be stable after warm-up. I first thought it was the regulated 13.2 volts but substituted an external voltage source and that made no difference. I gently blew the dust off the tuning cap. Being solid state there really isn't much of a warm-up so I am lost.... Anyone got any ideas how to isolate the problem? wb The drift is probably temperature, and thats how you troubleshoot. Get a can of freeze and something with heat. A soldering iron near parts works. greg |
#16
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Help with a vintage Marantz receiver problem
"GregS" In article , none wrote: I've a Marantz 2240B that drifts on the FM with warm up over about 30 minutes. Seems to be stable after warm-up. I first thought it was the regulated 13.2 volts but substituted an external voltage source and that made no difference. I gently blew the dust off the tuning cap. Being solid state there really isn't much of a warm-up so I am lost.... Anyone got any ideas how to isolate the problem? wb The drift is probably temperature, and thats how you troubleshoot. ** All of 25 kHz ( according to the OP) over a 30 minute warm up in a base frequency of 100Mhz !!!!! That = 250 parts per million in maybe a 10 degree C temp rise. = 25 ppm per C !!! Only a crystal oscillator at 1 or 2 ppm per C has better stability. ........ Phil |
#17
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Help with a vintage Marantz receiver problem
In article , "Phil Allison" wrote:
"GregS" In article , none wrote: I've a Marantz 2240B that drifts on the FM with warm up over about 30 minutes. Seems to be stable after warm-up. I first thought it was the regulated 13.2 volts but substituted an external voltage source and that made no difference. I gently blew the dust off the tuning cap. Being solid state there really isn't much of a warm-up so I am lost.... Anyone got any ideas how to isolate the problem? wb The drift is probably temperature, and thats how you troubleshoot. ** All of 25 kHz ( according to the OP) over a 30 minute warm up in a base frequency of 100Mhz !!!!! That = 250 parts per million in maybe a 10 degree C temp rise. = 25 ppm per C !!! Only a crystal oscillator at 1 or 2 ppm per C has better stability. The guy didn't specify how much. I guess the center tune meter goes off. I think they all drift somewhat. He also didn't say if it has an effect other than visual. greg |
#18
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Help with a vintage Marantz receiver problem
"GregS The drift is probably temperature, and thats how you troubleshoot. ** All of 25 kHz ( according to the OP) over a 30 minute warm up in a base frequency of 100Mhz !!!!! That = 250 parts per million in maybe a 10 degree C temp rise. = 25 ppm per C !!! Only a crystal oscillator at 1 or 2 ppm per C has better stability. The guy didn't specify how much. ** YES he *bloody* did. READ the WHOLE damn thread !!! I guess the center tune meter goes off. I think they all drift somewhat. He also didn't say if it has an effect other than visual. ** HE did say that TOO. Read ALL the OPs posts !! BTW You know NOTHING about the topic. Bloody NG parasite !!! ......... Phil |
#19
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Help with a vintage Marantz receiver problem
In article , "Phil Allison" wrote:
"GregS The drift is probably temperature, and thats how you troubleshoot. ** All of 25 kHz ( according to the OP) over a 30 minute warm up in a base frequency of 100Mhz !!!!! That = 250 parts per million in maybe a 10 degree C temp rise. = 25 ppm per C !!! Only a crystal oscillator at 1 or 2 ppm per C has better stability. The guy didn't specify how much. ** YES he *bloody* did. READ the WHOLE damn thread !!! I found it! The real answer may be very difficult to find. Sometimes there are components used to counter heat drift. Any specs may be off. Many of the parts will be temperature specific, so you would have to know everything about the circuit, but sometimes you get lucky or not. I guess the center tune meter goes off. I think they all drift somewhat. He also didn't say if it has an effect other than visual. ** HE did say that TOO. Read ALL the OPs posts !! BTW You know NOTHING about the topic. Bloody NG parasite !!! ......... Phil |
#20
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Help with a vintage Marantz receiver problem
"GregS" ** **** off - IDIOT ! ........ Phil |
#21
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Help with a vintage Marantz receiver problem
On Sun, 02 Jul 2006 22:40:00 GMT, "Mark D. Zacharias"
wrote: Phil Allison wrote: "Mark D. Zacharias" Try freeze-mist to help locate the temperature-sensitive component (probably a capacitor). ** Ignore this asinine fool. He has no comprehension of oscillator circuits. I think most FM tuner sections had AFC circuits, though most stereo receivers DID NOT have defeatable switches for this once PLL circuits evolved. ** PLL frequency synthesisers ELIMINATE the need for AFC completely. Could be an AFC / PLL problem more than a front-end or local oscillator problem. ** Or just NORMAL warm up drift. ....... Phil Excuse me Phil, I have personally found temperature sensitive capacitors this way, fixing for example Pioneer receivers with drift problems. I sort of run these circuits together - PLL, AFC, etc. Sorry I wasn't more clear. "normal warmup drift" is exactly what PLL was designed to eliminate. I used to have a Heath AJ-41 tube tuner which had the phase control on the front panel. Needed to be re-adjusted after a few minutes warmup. I've owned and used dozens of solid state tuners over the years and never seen a properly funtioning one require more than the most miniscule re-tuning after warmup. Mark Z. We used to have that problem too with Pioneer receivers back in the late 70s. Rarely we had to use npo capacitors that changed capacitance in the opposite direction from the other caps in the oscillator circuit to counteract warm up drift. Back then the company I worked for wouldn't allow us not to repair an item or send it back to the factory for service, so we'd sub a cap, let it warm up an hour and then try a different cap in the same location until the drift rate was acceptable. Since we were all on commission, we loved these receivers. Chuck |
#22
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Help with a vintage Marantz receiver problem
The program Smith has grown beyond your control. Soon he will spread through
this city, as he has spread through the Matrix. You cannot stop him... "Phil Allison" wrote in message ... | | "GregS" | | | ** **** off - IDIOT ! | | | | | ....... Phil | | | |
#23
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Help with a vintage Marantz receiver problem
wß wrote: I've a Marantz 2240B that drifts on the FM with warm up over about 30 minutes. Seems to be stable after warm-up. I first thought it was the regulated 13.2 volts but substituted an external voltage source and that made no difference. I gently blew the dust off the tuning cap. Being solid state there really isn't much of a warm-up so I am lost.... Anyone got any ideas how to isolate the problem? wb I'm surprised that none of you internet rocket scientists are even close to resolving the most common problem with the alps tuning caps used in many of the vintage fm tuners. Simply clean the oxidation off the wipers in each section of the fm tuning cap ( the fewer wider spaced plates ) Yes it could be an electronic component, but in my extensive experience ( 30+ years consumer and pro audio service ) I'm willing to bet the wipers in the main tuning cap assy are the true culprits |
#24
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Help with a vintage Marantz receiver problem
wiz82 wrote:
wß wrote: I've a Marantz 2240B that drifts on the FM with warm up over about 30 minutes. Seems to be stable after warm-up. I first thought it was the regulated 13.2 volts but substituted an external voltage source and that made no difference. I gently blew the dust off the tuning cap. Being solid state there really isn't much of a warm-up so I am lost.... Anyone got any ideas how to isolate the problem? wb I'm surprised that none of you internet rocket scientists are even close to resolving the most common problem with the alps tuning caps used in many of the vintage fm tuners. Simply clean the oxidation off the wipers in each section of the fm tuning cap ( the fewer wider spaced plates ) Yes it could be an electronic component, but in my extensive experience ( 30+ years consumer and pro audio service ) I'm willing to bet the wipers in the main tuning cap assy are the true culprits Makes more sense than a cap "gone bad". Though I can't imagine how dirty plates could be temperature sensitive. I managed to score a cheap doner unit for a front end but I will try your suggestion first. I am not in any mood to be shotgunning tiny capacitors. What would you suggest as a cleaning agent? 99% alcohol or CFC. Though not PC I find that CFC is an excellent cleaner. 99% alcohol seems to work well in most instances too. |
#25
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Help with a vintage Marantz receiver problem
wß wrote: wiz82 wrote: wß wrote: I've a Marantz 2240B that drifts on the FM with warm up over about 30 minutes. Seems to be stable after warm-up. I first thought it was the regulated 13.2 volts but substituted an external voltage source and that made no difference. I gently blew the dust off the tuning cap. Being solid state there really isn't much of a warm-up so I am lost.... Anyone got any ideas how to isolate the problem? wb I'm surprised that none of you internet rocket scientists are even close to resolving the most common problem with the alps tuning caps used in many of the vintage fm tuners. Simply clean the oxidation off the wipers in each section of the fm tuning cap ( the fewer wider spaced plates ) Yes it could be an electronic component, but in my extensive experience ( 30+ years consumer and pro audio service ) I'm willing to bet the wipers in the main tuning cap assy are the true culprits Makes more sense than a cap "gone bad". Though I can't imagine how dirty plates could be temperature sensitive. I managed to score a cheap doner unit for a front end but I will try your suggestion first. I am not in any mood to be shotgunning tiny capacitors. What would you suggest as a cleaning agent? 99% alcohol or CFC. Though not PC I find that CFC is an excellent cleaner. 99% alcohol seems to work well in most instances too. I usually spray the plate contact areas with Caig d5 or pro gold. No guarantees, but it usually makes it better. Work the control back and forth for a few minutes after you spray it. And don't break the dam dial string........ Bob ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
#26
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Help with a vintage Marantz receiver problem
wß wrote: wiz82 wrote: wß wrote: I've a Marantz 2240B that drifts on the FM with warm up over about 30 minutes. Seems to be stable after warm-up. I first thought it was the regulated 13.2 volts but substituted an external voltage source and that made no difference. I gently blew the dust off the tuning cap. Being solid state there really isn't much of a warm-up so I am lost.... Anyone got any ideas how to isolate the problem? wb I'm surprised that none of you internet rocket scientists are even close to resolving the most common problem with the alps tuning caps used in many of the vintage fm tuners. Simply clean the oxidation off the wipers in each section of the fm tuning cap ( the fewer wider spaced plates ) Yes it could be an electronic component, but in my extensive experience ( 30+ years consumer and pro audio service ) I'm willing to bet the wipers in the main tuning cap assy are the true culprits Makes more sense than a cap "gone bad". Though I can't imagine how dirty plates could be temperature sensitive. I managed to score a cheap doner unit for a front end but I will try your suggestion first. I am not in any mood to be shotgunning tiny capacitors. What would you suggest as a cleaning agent? 99% alcohol or CFC. Though not PC I find that CFC is an excellent cleaner. 99% alcohol seems to work well in most instances too. Keep in mind that a tuned circuit ie. RF amp ,mixer & Local Osc in a typical vintage FM front end consists of inductance , capacitive and to a lesser degree resistance. The brass or in some cases silver plated wipers which ground each section of the main variable tuning cap are almost always greased when new as a means to retard oxidation. As the set ages, the grease drys out and often does two things - it either breaks the ground connection alltogeather, or adds a varying resistance ( changed by temp or humidity ) Use a strong degreasing solvent I use Ensolve - about $80.00 / gal compressed air and small brushes to get rid of the crap on the wipers. All the while one must move the tuning cap back & forth to allow the cleaned up wipers to bear against the mating section of the tuning cap section ( 3 in a basic set, 5 to 8 in a high end tuner ) By the way if you can find it, the old formulation of Tunowash works well but has not been sold for years due to its high CFC content. Any how I have restored so many sets " condemmed " as needing complete front end assy's by using this method. The only other thing I might add at this point is I have seen a number of Alps frontends drift where the local osc transistor is the old Hitachi "wedge" style 2SC535 I think but don't flame me if I got the number wrong. Anyho the thing to look for is if you see what appears to be a black fluffy residue covering the leads of the transistor Change it !! This process also creates of alot of weird audio problems in Kenwood vintage stuff as well. I gather oxidation and or moisture creeps up the leads of the transistor gets into the device and changes its operating characteristics any of us old time audio techs have seen this a bunch |
#27
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Help with a vintage Marantz receiver problem
wiz82 wrote:
wß wrote: I've a Marantz 2240B that drifts on the FM with warm up over about 30 minutes. Seems to be stable after warm-up. I first thought it was the regulated 13.2 volts but substituted an external voltage source and that made no difference. I gently blew the dust off the tuning cap. Being solid state there really isn't much of a warm-up so I am lost.... Anyone got any ideas how to isolate the problem? wb I'm surprised that none of you internet rocket scientists are even close to resolving the most common problem with the alps tuning caps used in many of the vintage fm tuners. Simply clean the oxidation off the wipers in each section of the fm tuning cap ( the fewer wider spaced plates ) Yes it could be an electronic component, but in my extensive experience ( 30+ years consumer and pro audio service ) I'm willing to bet the wipers in the main tuning cap assy are the true culprits Sometimes we have to get hit over the head. :-) I haven't seen drift problems as such from the aforementioned wipers, but I have seen noisy, erratic tuning characteristics, which could also relate to the OP's problem, even to the extent of being temperature sensitive. I use Caig D-100 non-aerosol, and drip it into where the copper feelers contact the center shaft of the tuning cap. Work it around a bit as you say, that particular problem solved. The last one I did was an Accuphase T-100. Mark Z |
#28
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Help with a vintage Marantz receiver problem
Wiz82 wrote:
wß wrote: wiz82 wrote: wß wrote: I've a Marantz 2240B that drifts on the FM with warm up over about 30 minutes. Seems to be stable after warm-up. I first thought it was the regulated 13.2 volts but substituted an external voltage source and that made no difference. I gently blew the dust off the tuning cap. Being solid state there really isn't much of a warm-up so I am lost.... Anyone got any ideas how to isolate the problem? wb I'm surprised that none of you internet rocket scientists are even close to resolving the most common problem with the alps tuning caps used in many of the vintage fm tuners. Simply clean the oxidation off the wipers in each section of the fm tuning cap ( the fewer wider spaced plates ) Yes it could be an electronic component, but in my extensive experience ( 30+ years consumer and pro audio service ) I'm willing to bet the wipers in the main tuning cap assy are the true culprits Makes more sense than a cap "gone bad". Though I can't imagine how dirty plates could be temperature sensitive. I managed to score a cheap doner unit for a front end but I will try your suggestion first. I am not in any mood to be shotgunning tiny capacitors. What would you suggest as a cleaning agent? 99% alcohol or CFC. Though not PC I find that CFC is an excellent cleaner. 99% alcohol seems to work well in most instances too. Keep in mind that a tuned circuit ie. RF amp ,mixer & Local Osc in a typical vintage FM front end consists of inductance , capacitive and to a lesser degree resistance. The brass or in some cases silver plated wipers which ground each section of the main variable tuning cap are almost always greased when new as a means to retard oxidation. As the set ages, the grease drys out and often does two things - it either breaks the ground connection alltogeather, or adds a varying resistance ( changed by temp or humidity ) Use a strong degreasing solvent I use Ensolve - about $80.00 / gal compressed air and small brushes to get rid of the crap on the wipers. All the while one must move the tuning cap back & forth to allow the cleaned up wipers to bear against the mating section of the tuning cap section ( 3 in a basic set, 5 to 8 in a high end tuner ) By the way if you can find it, the old formulation of Tunowash works well but has not been sold for years due to its high CFC content. Any how I have restored so many sets " condemmed " as needing complete front end assy's by using this method. The only other thing I might add at this point is I have seen a number of Alps frontends drift where the local osc transistor is the old Hitachi "wedge" style 2SC535 I think but don't flame me if I got the number wrong. Anyho the thing to look for is if you see what appears to be a black fluffy residue covering the leads of the transistor Change it !! This process also creates of alot of weird audio problems in Kenwood vintage stuff as well. I gather oxidation and or moisture creeps up the leads of the transistor gets into the device and changes its operating characteristics any of us old time audio techs have seen this a bunch It is a 2SC535b transistor so I will watch for that also. Thanks for the tips. I do have an idea of what I am doing as I worked on consumer equipment in the 70's & 80's. Never saw these kind of problems when the stuff was still new... In fact, seems like most of the problems we saw were caused by the user himself! Thanks again and if it turns into a nightmare or an outrageous success I will post again for the sake of the group and some other poor soul faced with a similar problem. |
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Help with a vintage Marantz receiver problem
"wß" ** **** off - TROLL. ......... Phil |
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