[Frank Stearns]

I'm looking to put together a "B" kit from existing pieces
to do location capture when my main kit is tied up
elsewhere. This is just for simple stuff, nothing more than
eight tracks, probably more like 4-6 on a typical gig.

I'd like to do this on a tweaked XP laptop (I know, I
know), capturing data from a firewire stream and striping
WAV or BWAV files -- something that I'd later import to PT
for post.

The perfect software solution would do just that and only
that -- no EQ, no dynamics, no mixing. Just take the
firewire data and record tracks to disk. (Nothing more
than 44.1/24 or 48/24 would be expected from this system.)

The data source is an RME Fireface, and while RME apps
are included to control the unit from the laptop, there's
nothing I've found that will actually record the data. The
RME manual refers in a generic sense to "recording
software," so I assume they mean something 3rd party.

PT 9 would probably work, but I don't trust it for field
work for a number of reasons. I've stumbled across the
Kristal DAW. Looks interesting; but wonder about
reliability and support. Any experience?


Any suggestions for a very stripped-down app to do this basic job?

Thanks in advance,

Frank
Mobile Audio
--

[Scott Dorsey]

Frank Stearns wrote:
I'm looking to put together a "B" kit from existing pieces
to do location capture when my main kit is tied up
elsewhere. This is just for simple stuff, nothing more than
eight tracks, probably more like 4-6 on a typical gig.

Write the Boom Recorder guys, tell them you want more tracks.
Other than the track count I think it's just what you want.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[PStamler]

Reaper.

Peace,
Paul

[Fran Guidry]

On Feb 7, 9:54*am, Frank Stearns
wrote:
I'm looking to put together a "B" kit from existing pieces
to do location capture when my main kit is tied up
elsewhere. This is just for simple stuff, nothing more than
eight tracks, probably more like 4-6 on a typical gig.

I'd like to do this on a tweaked XP laptop (I know, I
know), capturing data from a firewire stream and striping
WAV or BWAV files -- something that I'd later import to PT
for post.

The perfect software solution would do just that and only
that -- no EQ, no dynamics, no mixing. Just take the
firewire data and record tracks to disk. (Nothing more
than 44.1/24 or 48/24 would be expected from this system.)

The data source is an RME Fireface, and while RME apps
are included to control the unit from the laptop, there's
nothing I've found that will actually record the data. The
RME manual refers in a generic sense to "recording
software," so I assume they mean something 3rd party.

PT 9 would probably work, but I don't trust it for field
work for a number of reasons. I've stumbled across the
Kristal DAW. Looks interesting; but wonder about
reliability and support. Any experience?

Any suggestions for a very stripped-down app to do this basic job?

Thanks in advance,

Frank
Mobile Audio
--
*.

REAPER. It has all the stuff you don't want, but it's all plugins. The
recorder engine is lean, mean, and clean. Check the REAPER forum for
testimonials to its use as a long form capture tool.

Fran

[geoff]

Frank Stearns wrote:
I'm looking to put together a "B" kit from existing pieces
to do location capture when my main kit is tied up
elsewhere. This is just for simple stuff, nothing more than
eight tracks, probably more like 4-6 on a typical gig.

I'd like to do this on a tweaked XP laptop (I know, I
know), capturing data from a firewire stream and striping
WAV or BWAV files -- something that I'd later import to PT
for post.

The perfect software solution would do just that and only
that -- no EQ, no dynamics, no mixing. Just take the
firewire data and record tracks to disk. (Nothing more
than 44.1/24 or 48/24 would be expected from this system.)


Though overpowered for your application, surely REAPER does what you need,
and the terms and condition allow for installs on more than one PC, and is
remarkably stable with low 'overheads'. If you like it you can use it as
you main DAW too, without having to import/export/convert anything !

geoff

[Chip Borton]

On 2/7/2011 10:54 AM, Frank Stearns wrote:
I'm looking to put together a "B" kit from existing pieces
to do location capture when my main kit is tied up
elsewhere. This is just for simple stuff, nothing more than
eight tracks, probably more like 4-6 on a typical gig.

I'd like to do this on a tweaked XP laptop (I know, I
know), capturing data from a firewire stream and striping
WAV or BWAV files -- something that I'd later import to PT
for post.

The perfect software solution would do just that and only
that -- no EQ, no dynamics, no mixing. Just take the
firewire data and record tracks to disk. (Nothing more
than 44.1/24 or 48/24 would be expected from this system.)

The data source is an RME Fireface, and while RME apps
are included to control the unit from the laptop, there's
nothing I've found that will actually record the data. The
RME manual refers in a generic sense to "recording
software," so I assume they mean something 3rd party.

PT 9 would probably work, but I don't trust it for field
work for a number of reasons. I've stumbled across the
Kristal DAW. Looks interesting; but wonder about
reliability and support. Any experience?


Any suggestions for a very stripped-down app to do this basic job?

Thanks in advance,

Frank
Mobile Audio

If you have RME then you should have DIGICheck, It can be set for global
record to a directory of your choosing.

[Chip Borton]

If you have RME then you should have DIGICheck, It can be set for global
record to a directory of your choosing.


I just put together my "B" rig too. RME Fireface UFX and two Behringer
ADA8000's hooked into the ADAT ports of the UFX for 20 mic pre's total.

I am still looking for an 8 channel mic pre unit that will do analog
line output to feed the remaining 8 analog inputs of the UFX to get me
up to 28 mic pre's, something like the Focusrite ISA 828. Anyone have a
suggestion for an 8 banger mic pre similar to the Focusrite but less
expensive? I blew my budget for now on the UFX. If not, I will wait
till I can afford something nice. I dont record classical or mission
critical sound, just festivals and concerts.

[Mike Rivers]

On 2/7/2011 12:54 PM, Frank Stearns wrote:
I'm looking to put together a "B" kit from existing pieces
to do location capture when my main kit is tied up
elsewhere. This is just for simple stuff, nothing more than
eight tracks, probably more like 4-6 on a typical gig.

I'd like to do this on a tweaked XP laptop (I know, I
know), capturing data from a firewire stream and striping
WAV or BWAV files -- something that I'd later import to PT
for post.

Reaper. http://www.reaper.fm I think it's $40

Don't bother writing to the Boom Recorder folks. Unless
they've repented, it's a Mac-only program.



--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and
interesting audio stuff

[cedricl[_2_]]

On Feb 7, 1:51*pm, Mike Rivers wrote:
On 2/7/2011 12:54 PM, Frank Stearns wrote:

Reaper.http://www.reaper.fm*I think it's $40

Don't bother writing to the Boom Recorder folks. Unless
they've repented, it's a Mac-only program.



Actually, they have Windows downloads on their webpage. Apparently,
it's not Mac only.

[Mike Rivers]

On 2/7/2011 7:52 PM, cedricl wrote:

On Feb 7, 1:51 pm, Mike wrote:
Don't bother writing to the Boom Recorder folks. Unless
they've repented, it's a Mac-only program.

Actually, they have Windows downloads on their webpage. Apparently,
it's not Mac only.

Did you actually LOOK at the web page before you offered
your sage advice? Sure, they have Windows downloads.
Softronic is a general software company. but Boom-Recorder
is a Mac-only program. They offer no Windows equivalent.



--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and
interesting audio stuff

[Frank Stearns]

Frank Stearns writes:

that -- no EQ, no dynamics, no mixing. Just take the
firewire data and record tracks to disk. (Nothing more

Thanks to all who replied. The Boom Recorder Scott mentioned looked interesting, but
Chip pointed to an existing RME application, Digicheck, that does multitrack
recording, and some other interesting measurement functions. Reaper has some
intriguing features, but I am still reluctant to use a full-featured DAW for this
particular application.

Digicheck didn't come with my RME box (or maybe I missed it) but I got it n/c off
their website and fired it up. It indeed does the tracking job, but like most RME
software I've seen, it's quirky as hell with even odder documentation. RME software
that's directly tied to hardware is fine and is mostly self-explanatory, but when
not "constrained" in that manner, their software gets a little weird, IMO.

Nice hardware for the money, though. I use my Fireface box mostly for a
swiss-army format converter, and the fact that is has four mic pres tacked on is
nice, but its software is pretty odd as well. Oh well. Maybe something was lost in
the translation.

Thanks again. Wish me luck (actually my contract hire) tracking to a laptop.

Frank
Mobile Audio
--

[Mike Rivers]

On 2/8/2011 1:08 PM, Frank Stearns wrote:

Reaper has some
intriguing features, but I am still reluctant to use a full-featured DAW for this
particular application.

You're being pretty mysterious about this particular
application, but I can assure you - I don't have any idea
how to use a "full-featured" DAW, however, I have
successfully and with practically no deep thought at all
used Reaper for capturing what comes out the Firewire cable
from my Mackie mixer. It takes about a minute to set up the
routing matrix so that Channel 1 is the source for Track 1,
Channel 2 is the source for Track 2, and so on, but then
it's just pushing the buttons.

If you had a PreSonus StudioLive, you'd have Capture, which
is even simpler because everything is preset and you can
record to all the tracks with just one click.

Digicheck didn't come with my RME box (or maybe I missed it) but I got it n/c off
their website and fired it up. It indeed does the tracking job, but like most RME
software I've seen, it's quirky as hell with even odder documentation. RME software
that's directly tied to hardware is fine and is mostly self-explanatory, but when
not "constrained" in that manner, their software gets a little weird, IMO.

So that's your "solution?" Good luck. (and I mean that
sincerly, not sarcastically)


--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and
interesting audio stuff

[Frank Stearns]

Mike Rivers writes:

On 2/8/2011 1:08 PM, Frank Stearns wrote:

Reaper has some
intriguing features, but I am still reluctant to use a full-featured DAW for this
particular application.

You're being pretty mysterious about this particular
application, but I can assure you - I don't have any idea
how to use a "full-featured" DAW, however, I have
successfully and with practically no deep thought at all
used Reaper for capturing what comes out the Firewire cable
from my Mackie mixer. It takes about a minute to set up the
routing matrix so that Channel 1 is the source for Track 1,
Channel 2 is the source for Track 2, and so on, but then
it's just pushing the buttons.

No intention to be mysterious. Maybe I wasn't clear in the original post...

The idea is a very slim, small kit to capture 4-8 tracks (mostly location classical
work done by my help when I'm off on another gig), built from stuff I have (mostly)
on hand.

Ideally, the capture portion of that kit will be nearly as self-starting as
possible, taking as few seconds as possible to get it going.

When Things Go Wrong, as can often happen with live work, you want to
eliminate as many distractions, big or small, as possible. Setting up a
full-featured DAW *can* get distracting. By full-featured I mean routing and
other assignments, setting up a session, etc, etc.

Sure, you can do much of that ahead of time, but there still seems to be many unseen
operational and processing "layers" (even if unused) between microphone and hitting
record/doing data striping in that environment.

It's probably fine if you're familiar with it, but I'm talking about something that
won't be used all that often.

So far DigiCheck seems like an ideal solution, once I work around the quirky UI of
RME's SW.

It appears that I'll be able to eliminate most or all of the oddities such that one
need only boot the system and turn on the HW, plug in the mics, open a *single*
preset file, then press record. (That single file includes the recording
configuration as well as a data destination.) That's it. That's ideal.

And, it's teeny-tiny in terms of system resources. (With an executable at something
less than 1 Mbyte, I do mean small... Digicheck loads in proably 1/4 to 1/2 second.
That's a comfort in this era of bloatware.)

Later, as part of post, that single master file can be re-saved to break out
individual track files. This seems like a reasonably smart way of dealing with
a general-purpose file system supporting a general-purpose OS hosted by a
general-purpose CPU.


If you had a PreSonus StudioLive, you'd have Capture, which
is even simpler because everything is preset and you can
record to all the tracks with just one click.

Sounds like pre-configured Digicheck. And I have the RME HW, but not Presonus.

-snips-

So that's your "solution?" Good luck. (and I mean that
sincerly, not sarcastically)

Thanks, Mike; not taken sarcastically, but I understand the point.

In the next few weeks before all the scheduling conflicts start to hit (the reason
for this exercise in the first place), I'll try to "break" this system by doing a
number of mock setups, recordings, and tear downs, and even a few client rehearsal
gigs. This is what I did with the main kit several years ago; proved valuable. Then
I'll also have the new guy also try to "break" it in a similar fashion, before
sending it out.

Oh, and there will be a back-up 2-track attached to the monitor stereo bus.

Frank
Mobile Audio
--

[Mike Rivers]

On 2/8/2011 9:42 PM, Frank Stearns wrote:

The idea is a very slim, small kit to capture 4-8 tracks (mostly location classical
work done by my help when I'm off on another gig), built from stuff I have (mostly)
on hand.

OK, so it means that it won't always be operated by a smart
buy (as you usually are), but someone who would be more
comfortable with something that didn't require any setup or
even loading a template.

When Things Go Wrong, as can often happen with live work, you want to
eliminate as many distractions, big or small, as possible. Setting up a
full-featured DAW *can* get distracting. By full-featured I mean routing and
other assignments, setting up a session, etc, etc.

Agreed.

So far DigiCheck seems like an ideal solution, once I work around the quirky UI of
RME's SW.

I've never seen that program, but quirky user interfaces is
what confuses users who aren't so familiar with the program
or device that they have to think about what they're doing.

Later, as part of post, that single master file can be re-saved to break out
individual track files. This seems like a reasonably smart way of dealing with
a general-purpose file system supporting a general-purpose OS hosted by a
general-purpose CPU.

Does DigiCheck record a multi-channel WAV file? Or something
else not standard? That could be risky, but given that it's
RME, it's probably pretty solid whatever it does.

Oh, and there will be a back-up 2-track attached to the monitor stereo bus.

That's good. If the Zoom R16 or R24 wasn't built out of
plastic and had RME=quality converters, I'd suggest that,
but a guy's gotta have his professional standards.

--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and
interesting audio stuff

[Frank Stearns]

Mike Rivers writes:

On 2/8/2011 9:42 PM, Frank Stearns wrote:

snips

So far DigiCheck seems like an ideal solution, once I work around the quirky UI of
RME's SW.

I've never seen that program, but quirky user interfaces is

It also has several interesting metering configurations (dedicated Fancy Meters for
looking at audio when one is not using its recording mode).

This is part of what I mean by "RME-odd," BTW -- this app has four or five seemingly
cool (and possibly even useful) metering options, but tacked on at the bottom is the
record function. Strikes me that this should be a stand-alone app, just to avoid
confusion, but what do I know?


what confuses users who aren't so familiar with the program
or device that they have to think about what they're doing.

Oh so very true. One main item of my field testing is to be sure Digicheck will
always consistently come up as expected when the pre-set config/data-capture file is
loaded. That should eliminate 99.9% of the weirdnesses I've seen, and avoid the help
(or me) stumbling hopelessly around inside the UI a few seconds before the conductor
raises his baton.


Later, as part of post, that single master file can be re-saved to break out
individual track files. This seems like a reasonably smart way of dealing with
a general-purpose file system supporting a general-purpose OS hosted by a
general-purpose CPU.

Does DigiCheck record a multi-channel WAV file? Or something
else not standard? That could be risky, but given that it's
RME, it's probably pretty solid whatever it does.

It appears to be what I'll call (perhaps improperly) a "recording environment" file.
The channel setting info is in this file, and also multi-channel audio data is
plugged into temp file associated with this file.

Yes, there is some risk involved, but with windows it seems wiser in a real-time
recording environment to have as few active file handles as possible. That way,
you're only chunking one data stream out to a possibly fragmented drive (one that
might be getting that way simply as you go, because windows sometimes does bizarre
things on where data pieces are located on a drive, even on a "clean" drive).

The OS isn't keeping a stand-alone data file for each track where the drive is
potentially careening back and forth to drop little pieces of several separate files
hither and yon. You do this later, non-real time. And if something breaks, you can
try again.

Digicheck is capable of recording all 28 sources of the RME HW. I know, because I
did that by mistake the first time out before I figured out how to remove the
the unwanted channels from recording.

It'd be quite a feat for a windows file system to reliably stripe data to 28
separate files, particularly on slower-seeking laptop drives.


Oh, and there will be a back-up 2-track attached to the monitor stereo bus.

That's good. If the Zoom R16 or R24 wasn't built out of
plastic and had RME=quality converters, I'd suggest that,
but a guy's gotta have his professional standards.

I got the Marantz 661 a while back. Built like a little tank; reasonbly good
controls and UI. Passible converters; but the XLR-in mic pres are fixed gain (you
can vary the record level but not the preamp gain). That was irritating, but I
usually use the line in or SPDIF in.

Anyway...

Frank
Mobile Audio

--

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

Frank Stearns wrote:

that -- no EQ, no dynamics, no mixing. Just take the
firewire data and record tracks to disk. (Nothing more

Edirol R44 (pairable to 8 tracks) or the more affordable but squashable
MR8HD, both give best results with external mic pre, Mackie 1202 direct outs
are fine. And the setup is almost as simple as a ReVox and considerably
lighter. Great setups for shopping trolly carry the sound home recording.

Thanks again. Wish me luck (actually my contract hire) tracking to a
laptop.

Crossing my fingers for ya'

Frank
Mobile Audio

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Mike Rivers]

On 2/9/2011 11:53 AM, Frank Stearns wrote:

It also has several interesting metering configurations (dedicated Fancy Meters for
looking at audio when one is not using its recording mode).

This is part of what I mean by "RME-odd," BTW -- this app has four or five seemingly
cool (and possibly even useful) metering options, but tacked on at the bottom is the
record function. Strikes me that this should be a stand-alone app, just to avoid
confusion, but what do I know?

I've always wished I had an RME interface just so I could
use that application for the "bitscope" function and the
metering. I suspect that the recording function is just
there to use as a test (the "check" part of the name) and
not really intended to be used as a recorder.

Oh so very true. One main item of my field testing is to be sure Digicheck will
always consistently come up as expected when the pre-set config/data-capture file is
loaded.

If it has a means for starting with a given setup, then I
suspect that it will actually do that. Hopefully all they'll
need to do is click the Record button.

It appears to be what I'll call (perhaps improperly) a "recording environment" file.
The channel setting info is in this file, and also multi-channel audio data is
plugged into temp file associated with this file.

Sounds odd. Is there a utility that you can run on that file
that will get you eight (or as many tracks as you recorded)
WAV files? Maybe an "export as" function?

Yes, there is some risk involved, but with windows it seems wiser in a real-time
recording environment to have as few active file handles as possible.

I don't think anyone really worries about that any more, but
**** always happens. I have no idea if multiple files or one
file is safer.

It'd be quite a feat for a windows file system to reliably stripe data to 28
separate files, particularly on slower-seeking laptop drives.

These things are better than they have any right to be.
People are recording 24 tracks on laptops with no problems
these days.

I got the Marantz 661 a while back. Built like a little tank; reasonbly good
controls and UI. Passible converters; but the XLR-in mic pres are fixed gain (you
can vary the record level but not the preamp gain).

I don't know why they do that. The Zoom H2 is the same way,
though there's a three-position slide switch for low, medium
and high preamp gain. But so many people don't understand
the difference between that switch and the record level
control. The Zoom H4 actually controls the gain so you can't
overdrive the preamp while thinking everything is OK because
the meters are still below full scale. I never see people
using headphones with these things, though Peter L. just
said he rejected the Zoom R16 because of the feeble
headphone output.

--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and
interesting audio stuff

[Frank Stearns]

Mike Rivers writes:

On 2/9/2011 11:53 AM, Frank Stearns wrote:

It also has several interesting metering configurations (dedicated Fancy Meters for
looking at audio when one is not using its recording mode).

This is part of what I mean by "RME-odd," BTW -- this app has four or five seemingly
cool (and possibly even useful) metering options, but tacked on at the bottom is the
record function. Strikes me that this should be a stand-alone app, just to avoid
confusion, but what do I know?

I've always wished I had an RME interface just so I could
use that application for the "bitscope" function and the
metering. I suspect that the recording function is just
there to use as a test (the "check" part of the name) and
not really intended to be used as a recorder.

Could be. But if it streams and streams with no fuss, no muss, I'm happy. I will be
doing some torture tests, such as killing the process while it's actively recording,
letting the system fail due to battery run down, etc, to see how it handles the
file.... gracefully; or, as a cartoon smoke-and-catch-fire kind of thing, if you
know what I mean.


It appears to be what I'll call (perhaps improperly) a "recording environment" file.
The channel setting info is in this file, and also multi-channel audio data is
plugged into temp file associated with this file.

Sounds odd. Is there a utility that you can run on that file
that will get you eight (or as many tracks as you recorded)
WAV files? Maybe an "export as" function?

Thought I noted that... There is a "save as" function that you can do later, after
the gig. Here you select the option to write out independent WAV files. The system
can take its time and not potentially miss something due to heavy disk seeks with a
lot of open files.



Yes, there is some risk involved, but with windows it seems wiser in a real-time
recording environment to have as few active file handles as possible.

I don't think anyone really worries about that any more, but
**** always happens. I have no idea if multiple files or one
file is safer.

With a windows box, I'd always worry about that. So, the less we ask of that drive
and file system (for example, keeping track of one file instead of many at the same
time), the better, IMO.

NTFS is certainly better than past file systems, yet you still hear about (and
perhaps experience) inexplicable crap happening -- deep and subtle bugs that show up
rarely and are hard to duplicate. But when they byte, er, bite, ouch!


It'd be quite a feat for a windows file system to reliably stripe data to 28
separate files, particularly on slower-seeking laptop drives.

These things are better than they have any right to be.
People are recording 24 tracks on laptops with no problems
these days.

I've also seen something of a casual attitude from some of the folks willing to use
a general-purpose machine for live recording.

Certainly that's not you and probably not many others on this list, but I am
startled sometimes by what people will stand for. In a way it's almost a different
culture from what I'm used to... "Oh, hey, Mr. or Ms. Client, my PC kinda crapped
out for the first five minutes of your concert; not sure what happened, but we got
the rest! That's cool, isn't it? I mean, I did my best. What more do you want?" (Uh,
how about the whole thing!)

Yikes. I've never, ever been in that position, and I never want to be.


I got the Marantz 661 a while back. Built like a little tank; reasonbly good
controls and UI. Passible converters; but the XLR-in mic pres are fixed gain (you
can vary the record level but not the preamp gain).

I don't know why they do that. The Zoom H2 is the same way,
though there's a three-position slide switch for low, medium
and high preamp gain. But so many people don't understand

Wish I had that option...

the difference between that switch and the record level
control. The Zoom H4 actually controls the gain so you can't
overdrive the preamp while thinking everything is OK because
the meters are still below full scale. I never see people
using headphones with these things, though Peter L. just
said he rejected the Zoom R16 because of the feeble
headphone output.

Yes, I have the same complaint about the Marantz. Feeble phone drive -- probably
done that way to extend battery runtime. Fortunately, it's either been a backup,
driven by a mixer with its own headphone amp, or two-mics-only in a space I know
so I don't really have to hear it clearly.

Frank
--

[Tom McCreadie]

, Chip Borton wrote:

If you have RME then you should have DIGICheck, It can be set for global
record to a directory of your choosing.

Folks may have the mistaken notion that DIGICheck is just a measurement
tool, but it's my go-to Windows app for straightforward track recording!
Lean, reliable, powerful....and comes free with the RME gear. :-) Tthe
original mac version, though, lacked the Record functionality... unsure
if that's since been redressed?
--
Tom McCreadie

Live at The London Palindrome - ABBA