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#1
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Loudness Wars
This is unrelated really, but I remember listening to LP's, and hearing
a foreshadowing of each song during the gap between songs. I realized that the 'silent' portion of the groove was being slightly altered by the loud part adjacent to it. You could even watch as the record spun, and the song started at the same rotation position as the foreshadowing started. On 01/23/2015 08:36 PM, JackA wrote: While I hear a lot of "today's" music is purposely made loud, or as the say, Brick Walled, I feel it started long ago, way back when. After a divorce in the 80's, I began collecting vinyl records of past (Pop) music. I'd listen to the "hit" 45 vinyl single. I'd listen to the fade-out and always wondered why the audio became cleaner, not always, but enough to remember. I assume, digital audio editors (I think you may call the DAWs?) brought about current loudness wars, since you can better control sound in a digital world than analog. Also, I tend to think of loudness in more than one way. In other words, many artists added instrument after instrument to create a greater dense sound. This density I feel is a form of loudness, since you don't have to have greater amounts of amplitude, just less quiet spots. Your input greatly appreciated. Sorry for all the question! Best, Jack |
#2
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Loudness Wars
In article , Tobiah wrote:
This is unrelated really, but I remember listening to LP's, and hearing a foreshadowing of each song during the gap between songs. I realized that the 'silent' portion of the groove was being slightly altered by the loud part adjacent to it. You could even watch as the record spun, and the song started at the same rotation position as the foreshadowing started. Yes, it is a massive pain in the neck for the cutting engineer. I once cut a morse code practice record. Very loud tones, with a very quiet background. It took several test cuts to figure out how tight a pitch we could get away with. Then we got the test pressing back and found out it was not even that tight. At first I blamed it on print-through on the master but I was totally wrong. --scott On 01/23/2015 08:36 PM, JackA wrote: While I hear a lot of "today's" music is purposely made loud, or as the say, Brick Walled, I feel it started long ago, way back when. After a divorce in the 80's, I began collecting vinyl records of past (Pop) music. I'd listen to the "hit" 45 vinyl single. I'd listen to the fade-out and always wondered why the audio became cleaner, not always, but enough to remember. I assume, digital audio editors (I think you may call the DAWs?) brought about current loudness wars, since you can better control sound in a digital world than analog. Also, I tend to think of loudness in more than one way. In other words, many artists added instrument after instrument to create a greater dense sound. This density I feel is a form of loudness, since you don't have to have greater amounts of amplitude, just less quiet spots. Your input greatly appreciated. Sorry for all the question! Best, Jack -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#3
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Loudness Wars
Tobiah wrote:
This is unrelated really, but I remember listening to LP's, and hearing a foreshadowing of each song during the gap between songs. I realized that the 'silent' portion of the groove was being slightly altered by the loud part adjacent to it. You could even watch as the record spun, and the song started at the same rotation position as the foreshadowing started. "Pre-echo" - slight physical distortion of the groove adjacent to the the very quiet lead-in groove. -- shut up and play your guitar * HankAlrich.Com HankandShaidriMusic.Com YouTube.Com/WalkinayMusic |
#6
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Loudness Wars
On 5/02/2015 5:44 a.m., Tobiah wrote:
This is unrelated really, but I remember listening to LP's, and hearing a foreshadowing of each song during the gap between songs. I realized that the 'silent' portion of the groove was being slightly altered by the loud part adjacent to it. You could even watch as the record spun, and the song started at the same rotation position as the foreshadowing started. That's a cutting error rather than tape print-through. geoff |
#7
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Loudness Wars
On Wednesday, February 4, 2015 at 3:03:50 PM UTC-5, geoff wrote:
On 5/02/2015 5:44 a.m., Tobiah wrote: This is unrelated really, but I remember listening to LP's, and hearing a foreshadowing of each song during the gap between songs. I realized that the 'silent' portion of the groove was being slightly altered by the loud part adjacent to it. You could even watch as the record spun, and the song started at the same rotation position as the foreshadowing started. That's a cutting error rather than tape print-through. How do YOU know the difference? Jack geoff |
#8
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Loudness Wars
JackA wrote:
On Wednesday, February 4, 2015 at 3:03:50 PM UTC-5, geoff wrote: On 5/02/2015 5:44 a.m., Tobiah wrote: This is unrelated really, but I remember listening to LP's, and hearing a foreshadowing of each song during the gap between songs. I realized that the 'silent' portion of the groove was being slightly altered by the loud part adjacent to it. You could even watch as the record spun, and the song started at the same rotation position as the foreshadowing started. That's a cutting error rather than tape print-through. How do YOU know the difference? If it's print-through on the master, it will be synchronized with the rotation rate of the supply reel, not with the rotation rate of the LP. Also, if the master is properly wound-tails out, print-through causes mostly post-echo while groove deformation causes mostly pre-echo. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#9
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Loudness Wars
Scott Dorsey wrote: "Also, if the master is properly
wound-tails out, print-through causes mostly post-echo while groove deformation causes mostly pre-echo. --scott " I don't know - I own plenty of commercial cassette tapes with pre-echo on them. Some very noticeable, others barely. How would that be explained? |
#11
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Loudness Wars
On 2/4/2015 10:40 PM, wrote:
I own plenty of commercial cassette tapes with pre-echo on them. Some very noticeable, others barely. How would that be explained? Print-through on the cassette. Just because it's minimized on the master doesn't mean that the cassette itself won't develop print-through. Tape is tape. Since most cassettes are recorded in both directions, it's hard to say what's tails-out. -- For a good time, visit http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com |
#12
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Loudness Wars
short-busser @ gmail.com wrote in message
... Scott Dorsey wrote: "Also, if the master is properly wound-tails out, print-through causes mostly post-echo while groove deformation causes mostly pre-echo. --scott " I don't know - I own plenty of commercial cassette tapes with pre-echo on them. Some very noticeable, others barely. How would that be explained? The dumb****ery continues! |
#13
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Loudness Wars
On Wednesday, February 4, 2015 at 4:40:56 PM UTC-5, wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote: "Also, if the master is properly wound-tails out, print-through causes mostly post-echo while groove deformation causes mostly pre-echo. --scott " I don't know - I own plenty of commercial cassette tapes with pre-echo on them. Some very noticeable, others barely. How would that be explained? Only ever heard it on CDs, early songs!! But, at 1-7/8 IPS you might get half the song echoed!! :-) Jack |
#14
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Loudness Wars
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#15
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Loudness Wars
On 5/02/2015 9:46 a.m., JackA wrote:
On Wednesday, February 4, 2015 at 3:03:50 PM UTC-5, geoff wrote: On 5/02/2015 5:44 a.m., Tobiah wrote: This is unrelated really, but I remember listening to LP's, and hearing a foreshadowing of each song during the gap between songs. I realized that the 'silent' portion of the groove was being slightly altered by the loud part adjacent to it. You could even watch as the record spun, and the song started at the same rotation position as the foreshadowing started. That's a cutting error rather than tape print-through. How do YOU know the difference? Because it is physically synchronised to the groove position, you claimed. geoff |
#16
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Loudness Wars
On 2/4/2015 5:44 PM, Tobiah wrote:
This is unrelated really, but I remember listening to LP's, and hearing a foreshadowing of each song during the gap between songs. I realized that the 'silent' portion of the groove was being slightly altered by the loud part adjacent to it. You could even watch as the record spun, and the song started at the same rotation position as the foreshadowing started. Yes, it's known as "groove echo." You actually remove material from the lacquer master when cutting, so that doesn't have the problem, at least not as much as a pressing. But when pressing records, the plastic flows a bit as it's cooling and you get a light impression of the adjacent groove. Actually it's present all through the record, but it's masked by the music so you only hear it on the lead-in groove and bands between songs. THIS IS NOT A REASON WHY VINYL SOUNDS BETTER THAN A CD. (you really don't need twice as much music) -- For a good time, visit http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com |
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