[Mark]

The tinfoil trick has been proven from a friend of mine that had a gps
on his boat that was wrapped in tinfoil for safe keeping. He was
struck by lightning and everything on the boat was fried but the
wrapped gps.



was HE on the boat when it was struck?


Mark

[hank alrich]

Mark wrote:


The tinfoil trick has been proven from a friend of mine that had a gps
on his boat that was wrapped in tinfoil for safe keeping. He was
struck by lightning and everything on the boat was fried but the
wrapped gps.



was HE on the boat when it was struck?


Mark

Snopes, anyone? g

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://armadillomusicproductions.com/who'slistening.html
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShai...withDougHarman

[Danny T]

On Sep 16, 7:50*pm, (hank alrich) wrote:
Mark wrote:

The tinfoil trick has been proven from a friend of mine that had a gps
on his boat that was wrapped in tinfoil for safe keeping. He was
struck by lightning and everything on the boat was fried but the
wrapped gps.

was HE on the boat when it was struck?

Mark

Snopes, anyone? g

--
shut up and play your guitar *http://hankalrich.com/http://armadillomusicproductions.com/who'slistening.htmlhttp://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidriAlrichwithDougHarman

Snopes? you do know what snopes is don't you?
Its pretty common knowledge for most but happy reading:
http://jeremysarber.com/2009/07/29/t...nd-snopes-com/

Besides, if you lived in lighting territory, you'd know about chicken
wire, tin foil and other things like it.

[Les Cargill[_2_]]

Danny T wrote:
On Sep 16, 7:50 pm, (hank alrich) wrote:
wrote:

The tinfoil trick has been proven from a friend of mine that had a gps
on his boat that was wrapped in tinfoil for safe keeping. He was
struck by lightning and everything on the boat was fried but the
wrapped gps.

was HE on the boat when it was struck?

Mark

Snopes, anyone?g

--
shut up and play your guitar *http://hankalrich.com/http://armadillomusicproductions.com/who'slistening.htmlhttp://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidriAlrichwithDougHarman

Snopes? you do know what snopes is don't you?
Its pretty common knowledge for most but happy reading:
http://jeremysarber.com/2009/07/29/t...nd-snopes-com/

Besides, if you lived in lighting territory, you'd know about chicken
wire, tin foil and other things like it.


FTA:

"When I saw that Snopes had falsely claimed that Obama’s Birth
Certificate had been properly validated, I realized something was wrong
with either their research and/or their credibility. It seems something
is seriously wrong with both."

They played the Birther card. FAIL.

--
Les Cargill

[hank alrich]

Les Cargill wrote:

Danny T wrote:
On Sep 16, 7:50 pm, (hank alrich) wrote:
wrote:

The tinfoil trick has been proven from a friend of mine that had a gps
on his boat that was wrapped in tinfoil for safe keeping. He was
struck by lightning and everything on the boat was fried but the
wrapped gps.

was HE on the boat when it was struck?

Mark

Snopes, anyone?g

Snopes? you do know what snopes is don't you?
Its pretty common knowledge for most but happy reading:
http://jeremysarber.com/2009/07/29/t...nd-snopes-com/

Besides, if you lived in lighting territory, you'd know about chicken
wire, tin foil and other things like it.


FTA:

I'm acronym challenged, Les - what's "FTA", if it ain't about the Army?

"When I saw that Snopes had falsely claimed that Obama's Birth
Certificate had been properly validated, I realized something was wrong
with either their research and/or their credibility. It seems something
is seriously wrong with both."

They played the Birther card. FAIL.

Some folks will cling to an illusion as if it were their version of
Linus's blanket.

"Look, pal, Snopes isn't even smart enough to know about my fantasies,
so how good could it really be??"

I live in lightning territory, but not in lighting territory, and it's a
fine thing to have a lovely, dark background for the heavenly bodies.

Now where's my tinfoil hat...

Anybody tried a tinfoil life jacket?

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://armadillomusicproductions.com/who'slistening.html
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShai...withDougHarman

[Danny T]

On Sep 17, 8:11*am, (hank alrich) wrote:
Les Cargill wrote:
Danny T wrote:
On Sep 16, 7:50 pm, (hank alrich) wrote:
*wrote:

The tinfoil trick has been proven from a friend of mine that had a gps
on his boat that was wrapped in tinfoil for safe keeping. He was
struck by lightning and everything on the boat was fried but the
wrapped gps.

was HE on the boat when it was struck?

Mark

Snopes, anyone?g
Snopes? you do know what snopes is don't you?
Its pretty common knowledge for most but happy reading:
http://jeremysarber.com/2009/07/29/t...nd-snopes-com/

Besides, if you lived in lighting territory, you'd know about chicken
wire, tin foil and other things like it.

FTA:

I'm acronym challenged, Les - what's "FTA", if it ain't about the Army?

"When I saw that Snopes had falsely claimed that Obama's Birth
Certificate had been properly validated, I realized something was wrong
with either their research and/or their credibility. It seems something
is seriously wrong with both."

They played the Birther card. FAIL.

Some folks will cling to an illusion as if it were their version of
Linus's blanket.

"Look, pal, Snopes isn't even smart enough to know about my fantasies,
so how good could it really be??"

I live in lightning territory, but not in lighting territory, and it's a
fine thing to have a lovely, dark background for the heavenly bodies.

Now where's my tinfoil hat...

Anybody tried a tinfoil life jacket?

--
shut up and play your guitar *http://hankalrich.com/http://armadillomusicproductions.com/who'slistening.htmlhttp://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidriAlrichwithDougHarman

Hank, give it up. surrounding something with copper mesh has long been
known to be the best protection so why wouldn't you think tin foil
would work?

[hank alrich]

Danny T wrote:

On Sep 17, 8:11 am, (hank alrich) wrote:
Les Cargill wrote:
Danny T wrote:
On Sep 16, 7:50 pm, (hank alrich) wrote:
wrote:

The tinfoil trick has been proven from a friend of mine that had
a gps on his boat that was wrapped in tinfoil for safe keeping.
He was struck by lightning and everything on the boat was fried
but the wrapped gps.

was HE on the boat when it was struck?

Mark

Snopes, anyone?g
Snopes? you do know what snopes is don't you?
Its pretty common knowledge for most but happy reading:
http://jeremysarber.com/2009/07/29/t...nd-snopes-com/

Besides, if you lived in lighting territory, you'd know about chicken
wire, tin foil and other things like it.

FTA:

I'm acronym challenged, Les - what's "FTA", if it ain't about the Army?

"When I saw that Snopes had falsely claimed that Obama's Birth
Certificate had been properly validated, I realized something was wrong
with either their research and/or their credibility. It seems something
is seriously wrong with both."

They played the Birther card. FAIL.

Some folks will cling to an illusion as if it were their version of
Linus's blanket.

"Look, pal, Snopes isn't even smart enough to know about my fantasies,
so how good could it really be??"

I live in lightning territory, but not in lighting territory, and it's a
fine thing to have a lovely, dark background for the heavenly bodies.

Now where's my tinfoil hat...

Anybody tried a tinfoil life jacket?

Hank, give it up. surrounding something with copper mesh has long been
known to be the best protection so why wouldn't you think tin foil
would work?

Didn't say anything at all about that part of it. Now tell me, how much
tin is in "tinfoil" you could buy today?

Surrounding something with copper mesh does what, without a path to
ground?

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://armadillomusicproductions.com/who'slistening.html
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShai...withDougHarman

[Ron Capik[_3_]]

On 9/17/2010 11:38 AM, hank alrich wrote:
Danny wrote:

On Sep 17, 8:11 am, (hank alrich) wrote:
Les wrote:
Danny T wrote:
On Sep 16, 7:50 pm, (hank alrich) wrote:
wrote:

The tinfoil trick has been proven from a friend of mine that had
a gps on his boat that was wrapped in tinfoil for safe keeping.
He was struck by lightning and everything on the boat was fried
but the wrapped gps.

was HE on the boat when it was struck?

Mark

Snopes, anyone?g
Snopes? you do know what snopes is don't you?
Its pretty common knowledge for most but happy reading:
http://jeremysarber.com/2009/07/29/t...nd-snopes-com/

Besides, if you lived in lighting territory, you'd know about chicken
wire, tin foil and other things like it.

FTA:

I'm acronym challenged, Les - what's "FTA", if it ain't about the Army?

"When I saw that Snopes had falsely claimed that Obama's Birth
Certificate had been properly validated, I realized something was wrong
with either their research and/or their credibility. It seems something
is seriously wrong with both."

They played the Birther card. FAIL.

Some folks will cling to an illusion as if it were their version of
Linus's blanket.

"Look, pal, Snopes isn't even smart enough to know about my fantasies,
so how good could it really be??"

I live in lightning territory, but not in lighting territory, and it's a
fine thing to have a lovely, dark background for the heavenly bodies.

Now where's my tinfoil hat...

Anybody tried a tinfoil life jacket?

Hank, give it up. surrounding something with copper mesh has long been
known to be the best protection so why wouldn't you think tin foil
would work?

Didn't say anything at all about that part of it. Now tell me, how much
tin is in "tinfoil" you could buy today?

Surrounding something with copper mesh does what, without a path to
ground?

Ever hear of a Faraday Cage?
A Faraday cage's operation depends on the fact that an external static
electrical field will cause the electrical charges within the cage's
conducting material to redistribute themselves so as to cancel the
field's effects in the cage's interior. This phenomenon is used, for
example, to protect electronic equipment from lightning strikes and
other electrostatic discharges.

Later...
Ron Capik
--

[[email protected]]

On 2010-09-17 (hankalrich) said:
Besides, if you lived in lighting territory, you'd know
about chicken wire, tin foil and other things like it.

FTA:
snip
Hank, give it up. surrounding something with copper mesh has long
been known to be the best protection so why wouldn't you think
tin foil would work?
Didn't say anything at all about that part of it. Now tell me, how
much tin is in "tinfoil" you could buy today?
NOt much I"d venture a guess.

Surrounding something with copper mesh does what, without a path to
ground?
ABsolutely nothing.





Richard webb,

replace anything before at with elspider
ON site audio in the southland: see www.gatasound.com

[hank alrich]

Ron Capik wrote:

On 9/17/2010 11:38 AM, hank alrich wrote:
Danny wrote:

On Sep 17, 8:11 am, (hank alrich) wrote:
Les wrote:
Danny T wrote:
On Sep 16, 7:50 pm, (hank alrich) wrote:
wrote:

The tinfoil trick has been proven from a friend of mine that had
a gps on his boat that was wrapped in tinfoil for safe keeping.
He was struck by lightning and everything on the boat was fried
but the wrapped gps.

was HE on the boat when it was struck?

Mark

Snopes, anyone?g
Snopes? you do know what snopes is don't you?
Its pretty common knowledge for most but happy reading:
http://jeremysarber.com/2009/07/29/t...nd-snopes-com/

Besides, if you lived in lighting territory, you'd know about chicken
wire, tin foil and other things like it.

FTA:

I'm acronym challenged, Les - what's "FTA", if it ain't about the Army?

"When I saw that Snopes had falsely claimed that Obama's Birth
Certificate had been properly validated, I realized something was wrong
with either their research and/or their credibility. It seems something
is seriously wrong with both."

They played the Birther card. FAIL.

Some folks will cling to an illusion as if it were their version of
Linus's blanket.

"Look, pal, Snopes isn't even smart enough to know about my fantasies,
so how good could it really be??"

I live in lightning territory, but not in lighting territory, and it's a
fine thing to have a lovely, dark background for the heavenly bodies.

Now where's my tinfoil hat...

Anybody tried a tinfoil life jacket?

Hank, give it up. surrounding something with copper mesh has long been
known to be the best protection so why wouldn't you think tin foil
would work?

Didn't say anything at all about that part of it. Now tell me, how much
tin is in "tinfoil" you could buy today?

Surrounding something with copper mesh does what, without a path to
ground?

Ever hear of a Faraday Cage?

Yep.

A Faraday cage's operation depends on the fact that an external static
electrical field will cause the electrical charges within the cage's
conducting material to redistribute themselves so as to cancel the
field's effects in the cage's interior. This phenomenon is used, for
example, to protect electronic equipment from lightning strikes and
other electrostatic discharges.

Accepted.

And there is what "metal" in today's 'tinfoil'?

Let's see a link to news acticle(s) about the alleged event.

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://armadillomusicproductions.com/who'slistening.html
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShai...withDougHarman

[Mark]

* *Surrounding something with copper mesh does what, without a path to
* *ground?

ABsolutely nothing.


so when lightning hits an aircraft, everybody inside is killed?

or do they drag a ground wire out behind the aircraft?

and a shielded box on an automobile doesn't do anything?

this is of course wrong... An enclosed shield works very well WITHOUT
a path to ground.


Mark

[Bill Graham]

"Danny T" wrote in message
...
On Sep 17, 8:11 am, (hank alrich) wrote:
Les Cargill wrote:
Danny T wrote:
On Sep 16, 7:50 pm, (hank alrich) wrote:
wrote:

The tinfoil trick has been proven from a friend of mine that had a
gps
on his boat that was wrapped in tinfoil for safe keeping. He was
struck by lightning and everything on the boat was fried but the
wrapped gps.

was HE on the boat when it was struck?

Mark

Snopes, anyone?g
Snopes? you do know what snopes is don't you?
Its pretty common knowledge for most but happy reading:
http://jeremysarber.com/2009/07/29/t...nd-snopes-com/

Besides, if you lived in lighting territory, you'd know about chicken
wire, tin foil and other things like it.

FTA:

I'm acronym challenged, Les - what's "FTA", if it ain't about the Army?

"When I saw that Snopes had falsely claimed that Obama's Birth
Certificate had been properly validated, I realized something was wrong
with either their research and/or their credibility. It seems something
is seriously wrong with both."

They played the Birther card. FAIL.

Some folks will cling to an illusion as if it were their version of
Linus's blanket.

"Look, pal, Snopes isn't even smart enough to know about my fantasies,
so how good could it really be??"

I live in lightning territory, but not in lighting territory, and it's a
fine thing to have a lovely, dark background for the heavenly bodies.

Now where's my tinfoil hat...

Anybody tried a tinfoil life jacket?

--
shut up and play your guitar
*http://hankalrich.com/http://armadillomusicproductions.com/who'slistening.htmlhttp://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidriAlrichwithDougHarman

Hank, give it up. surrounding something with copper mesh has long been
known to be the best protection so why wouldn't you think tin foil
would work?

Lightening can pack a real wallop.....Personally, I'd prefer something a bit
more substantial than either copper mesh or tinfoil.

[John Williamson]

hank alrich wrote:
Ron Capik wrote:

On 9/17/2010 11:38 AM, hank alrich wrote:
Danny wrote:

On Sep 17, 8:11 am, (hank alrich) wrote:
Les wrote:
Danny T wrote:
On Sep 16, 7:50 pm, (hank alrich) wrote:
wrote:
The tinfoil trick has been proven from a friend of mine that had
a gps on his boat that was wrapped in tinfoil for safe keeping.
He was struck by lightning and everything on the boat was fried
but the wrapped gps.
was HE on the boat when it was struck?
Mark
Snopes, anyone?g
Snopes? you do know what snopes is don't you?
Its pretty common knowledge for most but happy reading:
http://jeremysarber.com/2009/07/29/t...nd-snopes-com/
Besides, if you lived in lighting territory, you'd know about chicken
wire, tin foil and other things like it.
FTA:
I'm acronym challenged, Les - what's "FTA", if it ain't about the Army?

"When I saw that Snopes had falsely claimed that Obama's Birth
Certificate had been properly validated, I realized something was wrong
with either their research and/or their credibility. It seems something
is seriously wrong with both."
They played the Birther card. FAIL.
Some folks will cling to an illusion as if it were their version of
Linus's blanket.

"Look, pal, Snopes isn't even smart enough to know about my fantasies,
so how good could it really be??"

I live in lightning territory, but not in lighting territory, and it's a
fine thing to have a lovely, dark background for the heavenly bodies.

Now where's my tinfoil hat...

Anybody tried a tinfoil life jacket?
Hank, give it up. surrounding something with copper mesh has long been
known to be the best protection so why wouldn't you think tin foil
would work?
Didn't say anything at all about that part of it. Now tell me, how much
tin is in "tinfoil" you could buy today?

Surrounding something with copper mesh does what, without a path to
ground?

Ever hear of a Faraday Cage?

Yep.

A Faraday cage's operation depends on the fact that an external static
electrical field will cause the electrical charges within the cage's
conducting material to redistribute themselves so as to cancel the
field's effects in the cage's interior. This phenomenon is used, for
example, to protect electronic equipment from lightning strikes and
other electrostatic discharges.

Accepted.

And there is what "metal" in today's 'tinfoil'?

Mostly it's Aluminium in the UK. Stronger, lighter and much cheaper than
tin.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[Danny T]

On Sep 17, 3:26*pm, Mark wrote:
* *Surrounding something with copper mesh does what, without a path to
* *ground?
ABsolutely nothing.

so when lightning hits an aircraft, everybody inside is killed?

or do they drag a ground wire out behind the aircraft?

and a shielded box on an automobile doesn't do anything?

this is of course wrong... An enclosed shield works very well WITHOUT
a path to ground.

Mark

Mark, don't argue with Hank. He is the self appointed god of all
knowledge. It's a shame really. He and his daughter are quite talented
and I'd bet there are a lot of people that won't do anything for them
on account of Hank's attitude.

[Danny T]

On Sep 17, 5:00*pm, "Bill Graham" wrote:
"Danny T" wrote in message

...
On Sep 17, 8:11 am, (hank alrich) wrote:





Les Cargill wrote:
Danny T wrote:
On Sep 16, 7:50 pm, (hank alrich) wrote:
wrote:

The tinfoil trick has been proven from a friend of mine that had a
gps
on his boat that was wrapped in tinfoil for safe keeping. He was
struck by lightning and everything on the boat was fried but the
wrapped gps.

was HE on the boat when it was struck?

Mark

Snopes, anyone?g
Snopes? you do know what snopes is don't you?
Its pretty common knowledge for most but happy reading:
http://jeremysarber.com/2009/07/29/t...nd-snopes-com/

Besides, if you lived in lighting territory, you'd know about chicken
wire, tin foil and other things like it.

FTA:

I'm acronym challenged, Les - what's "FTA", if it ain't about the Army?

"When I saw that Snopes had falsely claimed that Obama's Birth
Certificate had been properly validated, I realized something was wrong
with either their research and/or their credibility. It seems something
is seriously wrong with both."

They played the Birther card. FAIL.

Some folks will cling to an illusion as if it were their version of
Linus's blanket.

"Look, pal, Snopes isn't even smart enough to know about my fantasies,
so how good could it really be??"

I live in lightning territory, but not in lighting territory, and it's a
fine thing to have a lovely, dark background for the heavenly bodies.

Now where's my tinfoil hat...

Anybody tried a tinfoil life jacket?

--
shut up and play your guitar
*http://hankalrich.com/http://armadillomusicproductions.com/who'sliste....

Hank, give it up. surrounding something with copper mesh has long been
known to be the best protection so why wouldn't you think tin foil
would work?

Lightening can pack a real wallop.....Personally, I'd prefer something a bit
more substantial than either copper mesh or tinfoil.

The bottom line is that tin foil did work so Hank is wrong. It is
actually not the only time I know of it working. A direct hit might
fry an I-beam but in this case, it was a hit to the boat, not the gps
wrapped in tin foil. Everything else was fried so I think it is safe
to say the foil worked.

There's a song that might ring a bell, Piano In The Dark. One of the
writers - I think his name was Scott Cutler, was sailing to Hawaii on
a boat that was hit by lightning. If I remember correctly, he had an
AM radio in tin foil that lived and he navigated to Hawaii with just
the radio. Genius can verify that if he wants to.

[Bill Graham]

"Danny T" wrote in message
...
On Sep 17, 5:00 pm, "Bill Graham" wrote:
"Danny T" wrote in message

...
On Sep 17, 8:11 am, (hank alrich) wrote:

Lightening can pack a real wallop.....Personally, I'd prefer something a
bit
more substantial than either copper mesh or tinfoil.

The bottom line is that tin foil did work so Hank is wrong. It is
actually not the only time I know of it working. A direct hit might
fry an I-beam but in this case, it was a hit to the boat, not the gps
wrapped in tin foil. Everything else was fried so I think it is safe
to say the foil worked.

There's a song that might ring a bell, Piano In The Dark. One of the
writers - I think his name was Scott Cutler, was sailing to Hawaii on
a boat that was hit by lightning. If I remember correctly, he had an
AM radio in tin foil that lived and he navigated to Hawaii with just
the radio. Genius can verify that if he wants to.

Yes....I know it works.....But only if the lightening has no other place to
go. If it passes through the foil/mesh on its way to ground, then all bets
are off. But, like in an airplane that gets hit a long way from ground, the
foil will protect sensitive electronic equipment, and the skin of the
airplane will protect the passengers. It's just that I've seen big trees
that were split from A to A by lightening, and I would want something
sturdier, that's all......(Probably explains why I don't fly anywhere....:^)

[Les Cargill]

hank alrich wrote:
Les wrote:

Danny T wrote:
On Sep 16, 7:50 pm, (hank alrich) wrote:
wrote:

The tinfoil trick has been proven from a friend of mine that had a gps
on his boat that was wrapped in tinfoil for safe keeping. He was
struck by lightning and everything on the boat was fried but the
wrapped gps.

was HE on the boat when it was struck?

Mark

Snopes, anyone?g

Snopes? you do know what snopes is don't you?
Its pretty common knowledge for most but happy reading:
http://jeremysarber.com/2009/07/29/t...nd-snopes-com/

Besides, if you lived in lighting territory, you'd know about chicken
wire, tin foil and other things like it.


FTA:

I'm acronym challenged, Les - what's "FTA", if it ain't about the Army?


"From The Article", good sir.

"When I saw that Snopes had falsely claimed that Obama's Birth
Certificate had been properly validated, I realized something was wrong
with either their research and/or their credibility. It seems something
is seriously wrong with both."

They played the Birther card. FAIL.

Some folks will cling to an illusion as if it were their version of
Linus's blanket.

"Look, pal, Snopes isn't even smart enough to know about my fantasies,
so how good could it really be??"


It's ... narcissism. Pure and simple. I'm surprised this insight is not
more widely dispersed, either. It's a bunch of people saying "I reject
your reality and substitute my own."

Well, 'em things what don't go away when you don't believe in 'em?
They called *facts*.

I live in lightning territory, but not in lighting territory, and it's a
fine thing to have a lovely, dark background for the heavenly bodies.


So dark you can smell the moon...

Now where's my tinfoil hat...

Anybody tried a tinfoil life jacket?




--
Les Cargill

[Danny T]

On Sep 17, 7:43*pm, "Bill Graham" wrote:
"Danny T" wrote in message

...
On Sep 17, 5:00 pm, "Bill Graham" wrote:

"Danny T" wrote in message

...
On Sep 17, 8:11 am, (hank alrich) wrote:

Lightening can pack a real wallop.....Personally, I'd prefer something a
bit
more substantial than either copper mesh or tinfoil.

The bottom line is that tin foil did work so Hank is wrong. It is
actually not the only time I know of it working. A direct hit might
fry an I-beam but in this case, it was a hit to the boat, not the gps
wrapped in tin foil. Everything else was fried so I think it is safe
to say the foil worked.

There's a song that might ring a bell, Piano In The Dark. One of the
writers - I think his name was Scott Cutler, was sailing to Hawaii on
a boat that was hit by lightning. If I remember correctly, he had an
AM radio in tin foil that lived and he navigated to Hawaii with just
the radio. Genius can verify that if he wants to.

Yes....I know it works.....But only if the lightening has no other place to
go. If it passes through the foil/mesh on its way to ground, then all bets
are off. But, like in an airplane that gets hit a long way from ground, the
foil will protect sensitive electronic equipment, and the skin of the
airplane will protect the passengers. It's just that I've seen big trees
that were split from A to A by lightening, and I would want something
sturdier, that's all......(Probably explains why I don't fly anywhere....:^)

Tell you what - I'm a pilot. Now you've made me have something else to
think about :-)
Actually, I avoid thunderstorms like the plague. I've gotten close in
Fl but I was younger then - and probably not as smart.

[Arny Krueger]

"hank alrich" wrote in message


Danny T wrote:

Hank, give it up. surrounding something with copper mesh
has long been known to be the best protection so why
wouldn't you think tin foil would work?

Tin foil (actually aluminum foil) is as good of a Faraday shield as anything
until there's enough current to vaporize it. If you're talking lightning
bolts there may or may not be enough current to vaporize it, but its still
far better than nothing.

Lightning is just ESD on steroids. ESD is well known to be able to destroy
unprotected electronic equipment. Effective ESD remedies include bags made
up of plastic bags with lines of graphite-bearing ink or a microscopic
sputtered layer of aluminum on it. In either case the effective conductive
shield makes aluminum foil look very robust, indeed.

Didn't say anything at all about that part of it. Now
tell me, how much tin is in "tinfoil" you could buy today?

There is little or no tin in it, but there is plenty of aluminum. That's why
the box reads "aluminum foil" on the outside. Do much shopping?

Surrounding something with copper mesh does what, without
a path to ground?

An ungrounded conductive box is an effective Faraday shield. The charge is
on the outside and the people inside are kept safe. Thousands of people
have had their lives saved by ungrounded conductive airplane bodies and
ungrounded conductive automobile bodies when lightening strikes the airplane
or a power line falls on a stalled car.

[Bill Graham]

"Danny T" wrote in message
...
On Sep 17, 7:43 pm, "Bill Graham" wrote:
"Danny T" wrote in message

...
On Sep 17, 5:00 pm, "Bill Graham" wrote:

"Danny T" wrote in message

...
On Sep 17, 8:11 am, (hank alrich) wrote:

Lightening can pack a real wallop.....Personally, I'd prefer something a
bit
more substantial than either copper mesh or tinfoil.

The bottom line is that tin foil did work so Hank is wrong. It is
actually not the only time I know of it working. A direct hit might
fry an I-beam but in this case, it was a hit to the boat, not the gps
wrapped in tin foil. Everything else was fried so I think it is safe
to say the foil worked.

There's a song that might ring a bell, Piano In The Dark. One of the
writers - I think his name was Scott Cutler, was sailing to Hawaii on
a boat that was hit by lightning. If I remember correctly, he had an
AM radio in tin foil that lived and he navigated to Hawaii with just
the radio. Genius can verify that if he wants to.

Yes....I know it works.....But only if the lightening has no other place
to
go. If it passes through the foil/mesh on its way to ground, then all bets
are off. But, like in an airplane that gets hit a long way from ground,
the
foil will protect sensitive electronic equipment, and the skin of the
airplane will protect the passengers. It's just that I've seen big trees
that were split from A to A by lightening, and I would want something
sturdier, that's all......(Probably explains why I don't fly
anywhere....:^)

Tell you what - I'm a pilot. Now you've made me have something else to
think about :-)
Actually, I avoid thunderstorms like the plague. I've gotten close in
Fl but I was younger then - and probably not as smart.

It's good that you avoid thunderstorms......Commercial pilots can (and do)
frequently fly above them. But there are lots of recorded cases where
lightening has disabled planes, so it's not a, "sure thing".

[hank alrich]

John Williamson wrote:

hank alrich wrote:
Ron Capik wrote:

On 9/17/2010 11:38 AM, hank alrich wrote:
Danny wrote:

On Sep 17, 8:11 am, (hank alrich) wrote:
Les wrote:
Danny T wrote:
On Sep 16, 7:50 pm, (hank alrich) wrote:
wrote:
The tinfoil trick has been proven from a friend of mine that had
a gps on his boat that was wrapped in tinfoil for safe keeping.
He was struck by lightning and everything on the boat was fried
but the wrapped gps.
was HE on the boat when it was struck?
Mark
Snopes, anyone?g
Snopes? you do know what snopes is don't you?
Its pretty common knowledge for most but happy reading:
http://jeremysarber.com/2009/07/29/t...nd-snopes-com/
Besides, if you lived in lighting territory, you'd know about chicken
wire, tin foil and other things like it.
FTA:
I'm acronym challenged, Les - what's "FTA", if it ain't about the Army?

"When I saw that Snopes had falsely claimed that Obama's Birth
Certificate had been properly validated, I realized something was wrong
with either their research and/or their credibility. It seems something
is seriously wrong with both."
They played the Birther card. FAIL.
Some folks will cling to an illusion as if it were their version of
Linus's blanket.

"Look, pal, Snopes isn't even smart enough to know about my fantasies,
so how good could it really be??"

I live in lightning territory, but not in lighting territory, and it's a
fine thing to have a lovely, dark background for the heavenly bodies.

Now where's my tinfoil hat...

Anybody tried a tinfoil life jacket?
Hank, give it up. surrounding something with copper mesh has long been
known to be the best protection so why wouldn't you think tin foil
would work?
Didn't say anything at all about that part of it. Now tell me, how much
tin is in "tinfoil" you could buy today?

Surrounding something with copper mesh does what, without a path to
ground?

Ever hear of a Faraday Cage?

Yep.

A Faraday cage's operation depends on the fact that an external static
electrical field will cause the electrical charges within the cage's
conducting material to redistribute themselves so as to cancel the
field's effects in the cage's interior. This phenomenon is used, for
example, to protect electronic equipment from lightning strikes and
other electrostatic discharges.

Accepted.

And there is what "metal" in today's 'tinfoil'?

Mostly it's Aluminium in the UK. Stronger, lighter and much cheaper than
tin.

Stuff we get here in the US has shiny laid on plastic. g

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://armadillomusicproductions.com/who'slistening.html
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShai...withDougHarman

[hank alrich]

Bill Graham wrote:

"Danny T" wrote in message
...
On Sep 17, 5:00 pm, "Bill Graham" wrote:
"Danny T" wrote in message

...
On Sep 17, 8:11 am, (hank alrich) wrote:

Lightening can pack a real wallop.....Personally, I'd prefer something a
bit
more substantial than either copper mesh or tinfoil.

The bottom line is that tin foil did work so Hank is wrong.

Been wrong many times. Usually learn something in the process.

What I would like to see here is a link to any information about the
alleged event - the lightning hitting the boat and everything but the
foil-wrapped article getting fried...

I t is
actually not the only time I know of it working. A direct hit might
fry an I-beam but in this case, it was a hit to the boat, not the gps
wrapped in tin foil. Everything else was fried so I think it is safe
to say the foil worked.

There's a song that might ring a bell, Piano In The Dark. One of the
writers - I think his name was Scott Cutler, was sailing to Hawaii on
a boat that was hit by lightning. If I remember correctly, he had an
AM radio in tin foil that lived and he navigated to Hawaii with just
the radio. Genius can verify that if he wants to.

Yes....I know it works.....But only if the lightening has no other place to
go. If it passes through the foil/mesh on its way to ground, then all bets
are off. But, like in an airplane that gets hit a long way from ground, the
foil will protect sensitive electronic equipment, and the skin of the
airplane will protect the passengers. It's just that I've seen big trees
that were split from A to A by lightening, and I would want something
sturdier, that's all......(Probably explains why I don't fly anywhere....:^)

Airplanes are certaily not immune to lightning strikes, though the
disaster/stirke rate is low.

http://www.onlykent.com/20100816/lig...lane-crash-in-
caribbean-1-dead-over-100-hurt/

http://articles.cnn.com/2010-08-16/w...tality_1_natio
nal-police-plane-runway?_s=PM:WORLD
--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://armadillomusicproductions.com/who'slistening.html
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShai...withDougHarman

[Bill Graham]

"hank alrich" wrote in message
...
Bill Graham wrote:

"Danny T" wrote in message
...
On Sep 17, 5:00 pm, "Bill Graham" wrote:
"Danny T" wrote in message

...
On Sep 17, 8:11 am, (hank alrich) wrote:

Lightening can pack a real wallop.....Personally, I'd prefer something
a
bit
more substantial than either copper mesh or tinfoil.

The bottom line is that tin foil did work so Hank is wrong.

Been wrong many times. Usually learn something in the process.

What I would like to see here is a link to any information about the
alleged event - the lightning hitting the boat and everything but the
foil-wrapped article getting fried...

I t is
actually not the only time I know of it working. A direct hit might
fry an I-beam but in this case, it was a hit to the boat, not the gps
wrapped in tin foil. Everything else was fried so I think it is safe
to say the foil worked.

There's a song that might ring a bell, Piano In The Dark. One of the
writers - I think his name was Scott Cutler, was sailing to Hawaii on
a boat that was hit by lightning. If I remember correctly, he had an
AM radio in tin foil that lived and he navigated to Hawaii with just
the radio. Genius can verify that if he wants to.

Yes....I know it works.....But only if the lightening has no other place
to
go. If it passes through the foil/mesh on its way to ground, then all
bets
are off. But, like in an airplane that gets hit a long way from ground,
the
foil will protect sensitive electronic equipment, and the skin of the
airplane will protect the passengers. It's just that I've seen big trees
that were split from A to A by lightening, and I would want something
sturdier, that's all......(Probably explains why I don't fly
anywhere....:^)

Airplanes are certaily not immune to lightning strikes, though the
disaster/stirke rate is low.

If the plane is lost at sea, they really don't know whether it was damaged
by lightening, or simply broke up because of high winds or other storm
effects. But I agree....The disaster/strike rate is low......

[Danny T]

On Sep 18, 9:13*pm, (hank alrich) wrote:
Bill Graham wrote:
"Danny T" wrote in message
....
On Sep 17, 5:00 pm, "Bill Graham" wrote:
"Danny T" wrote in message

....
On Sep 17, 8:11 am, (hank alrich) wrote:

Lightening can pack a real wallop.....Personally, I'd prefer something a
bit
more substantial than either copper mesh or tinfoil.

The bottom line is that tin foil did work so Hank is wrong.

Been wrong many times. Usually learn something in the process.

What I would like to see here is a link to any information about the
alleged event - the lightning hitting the boat and everything but the
foil-wrapped article getting fried...

I t is





actually not the only time I know of it working. A direct hit might
fry an I-beam but in this case, it was a hit to the boat, not the gps
wrapped in tin foil. Everything else was fried so I think it is safe
to say the foil worked.

There's a song that might ring a bell, Piano In The Dark. One of the
writers - I think his name was Scott Cutler, was sailing to Hawaii on
a boat that was hit by lightning. If I remember correctly, he had an
AM radio in tin foil that lived and he navigated to Hawaii with just
the radio. Genius can verify that if he wants to.

Yes....I know it works.....But only if the lightening has no other place to
go. If it passes through the foil/mesh on its way to ground, then all bets
are off. But, like in an airplane that gets hit a long way from ground, the
foil will protect sensitive electronic equipment, and the skin of the
airplane will protect the passengers. It's just that I've seen big trees
that were split from A to A by lightening, and I would want something
sturdier, that's all......(Probably explains why I don't fly anywhere.....:^)

Airplanes are certaily not immune to lightning strikes, though the
disaster/stirke rate is low.

http://www.onlykent.com/20100816/lig...lane-crash-in-
caribbean-1-dead-over-100-hurt/

http://articles.cnn.com/2010-08-16/w...tality_1_natio
nal-police-plane-runway?_s=PM:WORLD
--
shut up and play your guitar *http://hankalrich.com/http://armadillomusicproductions.com/who'slistening.htmlhttp://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidriAlrichwithDougHarman

Hank, there is nothing on the gps event at all. I knew the guy, three
boats got hit that day, his fried, mine was fine and the third burned
to the waterline. Other then an insurance claim, I don't think there
was anything written.

The Scott Cutler or what ever his name was that had the am radio to
navigate with happened back around 1980ish and might show up in the
papers. I long ago met him and that is how I heard about it but then
it was kind of legendary too because the boat he was on was an
expensive racing sled on delivery from So CA to Hawaii.

[Steve King]

"hank alrich" wrote in message
...
| Bill Graham wrote:
|
| "Danny T" wrote in message
|
...
| On Sep 17, 5:00 pm, "Bill Graham" wrote:
| "Danny T" wrote in message
|
|
...
| On Sep 17, 8:11 am, (hank alrich) wrote:
|
| Lightening can pack a real wallop.....Personally, I'd prefer something
a
| bit
| more substantial than either copper mesh or tinfoil.
|
| The bottom line is that tin foil did work so Hank is wrong.
|
| Been wrong many times. Usually learn something in the process.
|
| What I would like to see here is a link to any information about the
| alleged event - the lightning hitting the boat and everything but the
| foil-wrapped article getting fried...
|
| I t is
| actually not the only time I know of it working. A direct hit might
| fry an I-beam but in this case, it was a hit to the boat, not the gps
| wrapped in tin foil. Everything else was fried so I think it is safe
| to say the foil worked.
|
| There's a song that might ring a bell, Piano In The Dark. One of the
| writers - I think his name was Scott Cutler, was sailing to Hawaii on
| a boat that was hit by lightning. If I remember correctly, he had an
| AM radio in tin foil that lived and he navigated to Hawaii with just
| the radio. Genius can verify that if he wants to.
|
| Yes....I know it works.....But only if the lightening has no other place
to
| go. If it passes through the foil/mesh on its way to ground, then all
bets
| are off. But, like in an airplane that gets hit a long way from ground,
the
| foil will protect sensitive electronic equipment, and the skin of the
| airplane will protect the passengers. It's just that I've seen big trees
| that were split from A to A by lightening, and I would want something
| sturdier, that's all......(Probably explains why I don't fly
anywhere....:^)
|
| Airplanes are certaily not immune to lightning strikes, though the
| disaster/stirke rate is low.
|
| http://www.onlykent.com/20100816/lig...lane-crash-in-
| caribbean-1-dead-over-100-hurt/
|
| http://articles.cnn.com/2010-08-16/w...tality_1_natio
| nal-police-plane-runway?_s=PM:WORLD
| --
| shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
| http://armadillomusicproductions.com/who'slistening.html
| http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShai...withDougHarman

Lightning can behave strangely seeming to defy common sense. Lightning
struck the mast of a boat at a mooring in Chicago. The mast was grounded
to the keel bolts of a lead keel. Strangely, the lightning jumped from the
mast to a nearby bronze through-hull as well as puncturing the fiberglass
nearby with a couple of tiny holes. Why? The ground wire connection to the
keel was not corroded. I'm also a pilot. I have heard stories of wing
punctures by lightning, small holes, where the electronics aboard were
unaffected. Because of this strange behavior opinions differ about whether
to ground all metal on sailboats or not to ground them; I'm speaking of
through-hulls, electronics, instruments, etc. Various sailing magazines
over the years have published interesting articles about this showing that
even with best grounding and wiring practices there is no certain prevention
of lightning damage to equipment or structures. Check out Don Street's
articles in Sailing magazine.

Steve King

[Bill Graham]

"Steve King" wrote in message
...
"hank alrich" wrote in message
...
| Bill Graham wrote:
|
| "Danny T" wrote in message
|
...
| On Sep 17, 5:00 pm, "Bill Graham" wrote:
| "Danny T" wrote in message
|
|
...
| On Sep 17, 8:11 am, (hank alrich) wrote:
|
| Lightening can pack a real wallop.....Personally, I'd prefer
something
a
| bit
| more substantial than either copper mesh or tinfoil.
|
| The bottom line is that tin foil did work so Hank is wrong.
|
| Been wrong many times. Usually learn something in the process.
|
| What I would like to see here is a link to any information about the
| alleged event - the lightning hitting the boat and everything but the
| foil-wrapped article getting fried...
|
| I t is
| actually not the only time I know of it working. A direct hit might
| fry an I-beam but in this case, it was a hit to the boat, not the gps
| wrapped in tin foil. Everything else was fried so I think it is safe
| to say the foil worked.
|
| There's a song that might ring a bell, Piano In The Dark. One of the
| writers - I think his name was Scott Cutler, was sailing to Hawaii on
| a boat that was hit by lightning. If I remember correctly, he had an
| AM radio in tin foil that lived and he navigated to Hawaii with just
| the radio. Genius can verify that if he wants to.
|
| Yes....I know it works.....But only if the lightening has no other
place
to
| go. If it passes through the foil/mesh on its way to ground, then all
bets
| are off. But, like in an airplane that gets hit a long way from
ground,
the
| foil will protect sensitive electronic equipment, and the skin of the
| airplane will protect the passengers. It's just that I've seen big
trees
| that were split from A to A by lightening, and I would want something
| sturdier, that's all......(Probably explains why I don't fly
anywhere....:^)
|
| Airplanes are certaily not immune to lightning strikes, though the
| disaster/stirke rate is low.
|
| http://www.onlykent.com/20100816/lig...lane-crash-in-
| caribbean-1-dead-over-100-hurt/
|
| http://articles.cnn.com/2010-08-16/w...tality_1_natio
| nal-police-plane-runway?_s=PM:WORLD
| --
| shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
| http://armadillomusicproductions.com/who'slistening.html
| http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShai...withDougHarman

Lightning can behave strangely seeming to defy common sense. Lightning
struck the mast of a boat at a mooring in Chicago. The mast was grounded
to the keel bolts of a lead keel. Strangely, the lightning jumped from
the
mast to a nearby bronze through-hull as well as puncturing the fiberglass
nearby with a couple of tiny holes. Why? The ground wire connection to
the
keel was not corroded. I'm also a pilot. I have heard stories of wing
punctures by lightning, small holes, where the electronics aboard were
unaffected. Because of this strange behavior opinions differ about
whether
to ground all metal on sailboats or not to ground them; I'm speaking of
through-hulls, electronics, instruments, etc. Various sailing magazines
over the years have published interesting articles about this showing that
even with best grounding and wiring practices there is no certain
prevention
of lightning damage to equipment or structures. Check out Don Street's
articles in Sailing magazine.

Steve King



A few months back they interviewed a lady on TV who was struck by lightening
on a clear day while watching an outside sporting event. (a football game,
or baseball....I don't remember) There were no observable clouds in the sky
at the time.....

[Richard Webb[_3_]]

Steve King writes:

Big snip
Lightning can behave strangely seeming to defy common sense.
Lightning struck the mast of a boat at a mooring in Chicago. The
mast was grounded to the keel bolts of a lead keel. Strangely, the
lightning jumped from the mast to a nearby bronze through-hull as
well as puncturing the fiberglass nearby with a couple of tiny
holes. Why? The ground wire connection to the keel was not
corroded. I'm also a pilot. I have heard stories of wing
punctures by lightning, small holes, where the electronics aboard
were unaffected. Because of this strange behavior opinions differ
about whether to ground all metal on sailboats or not to ground
them; I'm speaking of through-hulls, electronics, instruments, etc.
Various sailing magazines over the years have published interesting
articles about this showing that even with best grounding and
wiring practices there is no certain prevention of lightning damage
to equipment or structures. Check out Don Street's articles in
Sailing magazine.

Agreed, and why I made the statement I did re ground earlier in this thread which a couple posters disagreed with.

LISten to long haul flights using single sideband comms on
shortwave. Because of that difficulty in finding a good
ground reference, or antenna counterpoise you'll often hear
rf feedback in the audio from those pilots, especially if
they change frequencies from the usual expected frequency
for that antenna system. Everybody you talk to has his own
generalization about this stuff. Mine is that if i want to
shield something from possible lightning damage the best way is a connection to a good earth ground that will route that
strike around my sensitive stuff to ground.

The literature on lightning proofing fixed antenna
installations makes my argument as well.

Regards,
Richard
.... Remote audio in the southland: See www.gatasound.com
--
| Remove .my.foot for email
| via Waldo's Place USA Fidonet-Internet Gateway Site
| Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own.

[William Sommerwerck]

A few months back they interviewed a lady on TV who
was struck by lightening on a clear day while watching
an outside sporting event...

The only human I know of who was ever struck by lightening was Michael
Jackson.

[Bill Graham]

"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
...
A few months back they interviewed a lady on TV who
was struck by lightening on a clear day while watching
an outside sporting event...

The only human I know of who was ever struck by lightening was Michael
Jackson.


Are you sure he was human?

[Mark]

Agreed, and why I made the statement I did re ground earlier in this thread which a couple posters disagreed with.

LISten to long haul flights using single sideband comms on
shortwave. *Because of that difficulty in finding a good
ground reference, or antenna counterpoise you'll often hear
rf feedback in the audio from those pilots, especially if
they change frequencies from the usual expected frequency
for that antenna system. *Everybody you talk to has his own
generalization about this stuff. *Mine is that if i want to
shield something from possible lightning damage the best way is a connection to a good earth ground that will route that
strike around my sensitive stuff to ground.

The literature on lightning proofing fixed antenna
installations makes my argument as well.




If you have a sealed conductive box and the conductive box is robust
enough to carry the current, inside the box will NOT BE EFFECTED by
lighting or RF outside the box even if the box grounded or not
grounded. (Low frequency magnetic fields can get in)

Grounding the box has advantages relative to things outside the box
but makes no difference inside the box.

That is not just my "generalization" or opinion., it is a fact.

Mark

[Danny T]

On Sep 19, 4:40*pm, "Bill Graham" wrote:
"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message

... A few months back they interviewed a lady on TV who
was struck by lightening on a clear day while watching
an outside sporting event...

The only human I know of who was ever struck by lightening was Michael
Jackson.

Are you sure he was human?

Once upon a time - maybe

[hank alrich]

Danny T wrote:

On Sep 19, 4:40 pm, "Bill Graham" wrote:
"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message

... A few months back
they interviewed a lady on TV who was struck by lightening on a clear
day while watching an outside sporting event...

The only human I know of who was ever struck by lightening was Michael
Jackson.

Are you sure he was human?

Once upon a time - maybe

Mr. Sommerwerck done flew one right over yo' heads...

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://armadillomusicproductions.com/who'slistening.html
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShai...withDougHarman

[Scott Dorsey]

Bill Graham wrote:
Tell you what - I'm a pilot. Now you've made me have something else to
think about :-)
Actually, I avoid thunderstorms like the plague. I've gotten close in
Fl but I was younger then - and probably not as smart.

The big problem with thunderstorms is the turbulence and the weird internal
winds that can tear a small plane apart. The lightning isn't quite as big
a deal.

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/search.jsp?R=37...%257c1%26N%3D0

is one of the classic studies on lightning attachment to aircraft.

It's good that you avoid thunderstorms......Commercial pilots can (and do)
frequently fly above them. But there are lots of recorded cases where
lightening has disabled planes, so it's not a, "sure thing".

It happens, and it's part of the reason why the GA folks are still big on
magnetos and carbs.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

Steve King wrote:
Lightning can behave strangely seeming to defy common sense. Lightning
struck the mast of a boat at a mooring in Chicago. The mast was grounded
to the keel bolts of a lead keel. Strangely, the lightning jumped from the
mast to a nearby bronze through-hull as well as puncturing the fiberglass
nearby with a couple of tiny holes. Why?

Lightning is RF, and it behaves like RF. Lightning currents through a
conductor can induce currents in adjacent conductors through magnetic
and capacitive coupling. BUT, by the same token, very small inductances
can present very high impedances to RF. If you have a kink in your ground
line it can be enough for the path through the air to be lower impedance
than through the cable.

This is why everyone makes "drip loops" of three turns at places where
antenna cables come into buildings. It actually presents considerable
impedance to lightning.

The ground wire connection to the
keel was not corroded. I'm also a pilot. I have heard stories of wing
punctures by lightning, small holes, where the electronics aboard were
unaffected. Because of this strange behavior opinions differ about whether
to ground all metal on sailboats or not to ground them; I'm speaking of
through-hulls, electronics, instruments, etc.

The behaviour isn't strange once you stop thinking of lightning as being
electricity and start thinking of it as being high frequency RF almost up
into the microwave region. The very sharp slope on lightning pulses mean
that it contains harmonics that go way, way up in frequency. And those
components behave like radio, not like DC.

Various sailing magazines
over the years have published interesting articles about this showing that
even with best grounding and wiring practices there is no certain prevention
of lightning damage to equipment or structures. Check out Don Street's
articles in Sailing magazine.

There never is complete protection, but there's a lot better protection
than there was fifty years back. The key is to have a straight path with
low RF impedance.... that can mean things like hollow lines instead of solid
ones, litz wire, no 90 degree bends, etc.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

Mark wrote:

If you have a sealed conductive box and the conductive box is robust
enough to carry the current, inside the box will NOT BE EFFECTED by
lighting or RF outside the box even if the box grounded or not
grounded. (Low frequency magnetic fields can get in)

Sort of.

The Faraday shield will block the electrical field, but it won't do
anything about the magnetic field at all. And the magnetic field
is substantial; it's enough that inside the cage there will be induced
currents inside metal objects.

But it will go very far toward preventing lightning damage and it's really
all you can do. Because the magnetic field drops off very quickly with
distance, having a large Faraday cage buys you more than having a small one,
since you can get more physical separation between your electronics and
the cage.

Grounding the box has advantages relative to things outside the box
but makes no difference inside the box.

Yes, this is absolutely true.

The classic example for lightning is the automobile which is a sealed
metal cage that is floated from ground by its tires.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Mark]

If you have a sealed conductive box and the conductive box is robust
enough to carry the current, inside the box will NOT BE EFFECTED *by
lighting or RF outside the box even if the box grounded or not
grounded. *(Low frequency magnetic fields can get in)

Sort of.

The Faraday shield will block the electrical field, but it won't do
anything about the magnetic field at all. *And the magnetic field
is substantial; it's enough that inside the cage there will be induced
currents inside metal objects.


A Farady shield will never block a DC magnetic field, i.e. a compass
will work inside a Farady shield no matter what.

A Farady shield made of a PERFECT conductor WILL block time varying
low frequency magnetic fields like 60 Hz.

A Farady shield made of a practical conductor like copper is not very
effective against low freqency magnetic fields like 60 Hz but is
effective against 1 MHz fr example.

Mark

[Scott Dorsey]

Mark wrote:

The Faraday shield will block the electrical field, but it won't do
anything about the magnetic field at all. =A0And the magnetic field
is substantial; it's enough that inside the cage there will be induced
currents inside metal objects.

A Farady shield will never block a DC magnetic field, i.e. a compass
will work inside a Farady shield no matter what.

Right. It won't block an AC magnetic field or anything having to do with
any magnetic fields at all.

A Farady shield made of a PERFECT conductor WILL block time varying
low frequency magnetic fields like 60 Hz.

No, it won't. A Faraday shield ONLY affects electrical fields, not
magnetic fields.

Faraday shields are very effective against RF because they block the
component E field, but they don't do anything about the B field.

A Farady shield made of a practical conductor like copper is not very
effective against low freqency magnetic fields like 60 Hz but is
effective against 1 MHz fr example.

Faraday shields are effective against electric fields only, not magnetic
fields.

Electromagnetic fields (RF) are a third and different thing. RF is made
up of a time-varying electrical field, which creates a time-varying
magnetic field perpendicular to it... which creates a time-varying electrical
field perpendicular to that. This is why RF can travel long distances
very effectively while magnetic and electrostatic fields drop off much more
quickly than inverse-square. It's not just a B field, it's not just an
E field, it's a different thing that behaves differently.

Effectively stopping RF can be done by either blocking the magnetic or
electrical component, but in the real world it's a lot easier just to block
the electrical component with a Faraday cage than worry about the magnetic.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Don Pearce[_3_]]

On 20 Sep 2010 11:00:58 -0400, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

Faraday shields are very effective against RF because they block the
component E field, but they don't do anything about the B field.

Just to clarify. The B field associated with an electromagnetic field
(RF) doesn't penetrate because it collapses along with the E field at
the metal surface. B fields on their own get through unimpeded.

d

[Mark]

On Sep 20, 11:15*am, (Don Pearce) wrote:
On 20 Sep 2010 11:00:58 -0400, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

Faraday shields are very effective against RF because they block the
component E field, but they don't do anything about the B field.

Just to clarify. The B field associated with an electromagnetic field
(RF) doesn't penetrate because it collapses along with the E field at
the metal surface. B fields on their own get through unimpeded.

d


I agree practical Faraday cages are NOT effective against 60 Hz
magnetic waves. But an ideal Faraday shield made of a superconductor
would be effective against 60 Hz magnetic waves.

Practical copper and aluminum Faraday shields ARE effective against
magnetic fields above about 100 kHz. A portable AM radio with a
ferrite loop antenna receives mostly H field (magnetic) waves. It
will not receive stations in the copper screen room.

Practical Faraday cages are effective for higher frequency magnetic
fields but they work using a different principle, eddy currents are
set up that cancel the magnetic filed inside.


See the last paragraph he

http://www.magnet.fsu.edu/education/...radaycage.html

and he

http://www.lbagroup.com/technology/f...FUmA5Qod5gOWLA

Mark

[Danny T]

On Sep 20, 8:33Â*am, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
Bill Graham wrote:
Tell you what - I'm a pilot. Now you've made me have something else to
think about :-)
Actually, I avoid thunderstorms like the plague. I've gotten close in
Fl but I was younger then - and probably not as smart.

The big problem with thunderstorms is the turbulence and the weird internal
winds that can tear a small plane apart. Â*The lightning isn't quite as big
a deal.

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/search.jsp?R=37...ˆ¨=false&qs=No...

is one of the classic studies on lightning attachment to aircraft.

It's good that you avoid thunderstorms......Commercial pilots can (and do)
frequently fly above them. But there are lots of recorded cases where
lightening has disabled planes, so it's not a, "sure thing".

It happens, and it's part of the reason why the GA folks are still big on
magnetos and carbs.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

I've known about a dozen people who have had their boats hit by
lighting over the years. almost all of them had the "lighting
protector" bottle brush looking attachment on the top of their mast.
I'm not sure I trust that gadgets really work :-)