I'm looking to upgrade to a new Pro Logic II receiver and am undecided
between the Denon AVR-1603 or the Yamaha HTR-5550. I can get both for
the same price of $400 CAN. I haven't been able to compare the two
yet as they are sold by separate dealers where I'm from. Just wanted
to get the audiophile's opinion on this one. Thanks!

-- Jason

Don't even THINK about buying anything Yamaha. Get the Denon.

Why?

--


There are 10 kinds of people in the world:
Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US!
"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
...
Don't even THINK about buying anything Yamaha. Get the Denon.

Don't even THINK about buying anything Yamaha. Get the Denon.

Why?

Because Yamaha has a terrible reputation. Few Yamaha products have ever gotten
favorable reviews in the American audiophile magazines, whereas Denon and Onkyo
products commonly do. Some of the worst-sounding surround products I reviewed
for Stereophile were Yamaha.

In alt.home-theater.misc William Sommerwerck wrote:
Don't even THINK about buying anything Yamaha. Get the Denon.

Why?

Because Yamaha has a terrible reputation. Few Yamaha products have ever gotten
favorable reviews in the American audiophile magazines,


Wow, talk about praising with faint damns.

Of the two units named, the original poster should buy the one
which has the most features he wants. Since he specifically mentioned
that he's interested in Pro Logic II, one thing to check into is
the configurability of the Pro Logic II mode. It's not price-correlated.
I have a Yammy 5540 and a Harmon Kardon AVR520; the latter cost
several hundred more than the former, and has more features and power, but
happens to be *less* configurable in DPL II made than the Yammy. The Yammies
allow you to adjust 'panorama' and a few other
user-configurable features of DPL II , whereas the H-K has
a 'fixed' DPL II config. Don't know about the Denon.




--
-S.

Reasonable. I just hate when people don't qualify there remarks.

Clay

--


There are 10 kinds of people in the world:
Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US!
"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
...
Don't even THINK about buying anything Yamaha. Get the Denon.

Why?

Because Yamaha has a terrible reputation. Few Yamaha products have ever
gotten
favorable reviews in the American audiophile magazines, whereas Denon and
Onkyo
products commonly do. Some of the worst-sounding surround products I
reviewed
for Stereophile were Yamaha.

Uh huh... Check out this positive Yamaha RX-Z1 review

http://www.audioholics.com/productre...haRXZ1-p1.html

AH is one of the more popular [sans e-commerce] home theater review
websites. While it's not a magazine, according to Alexa.com it gets more
traffic than Sterophile.com and it doesn't have a magazine to market itself.

Your 25 year old pre-DVD experience notwithstanding, I have never heard of
Yamaha having a poor reputation, and we talk every week with reps from
Denon, Onkyo, Integra Research, Tannoy, Sherbourn and Marantz to name a
few...

A quick glance at any of the online audiophile forums will also confirm
this. No one dogs Yamaha except the elitists who listen to tube amps and buy
$5000 speaker wire so their 30 year-old LPs sound "fruity".

- Clint DeBoer
CD Media Website Design & Marketing
www.cdmedia.com

"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
...
Don't even THINK about buying anything Yamaha. Get the Denon.

Why?

Because Yamaha has a terrible reputation. Few Yamaha products have ever
gotten
favorable reviews in the American audiophile magazines, whereas Denon and
Onkyo
products commonly do. Some of the worst-sounding surround products I
reviewed
for Stereophile were Yamaha.

Because Yamaha has a terrible reputation. Few Yamaha
products have ever gotten favorable reviews in the American
audiophile magazines, whereas Denon and Onkyo products
commonly do. Some of the worst-sounding surround
products I reviewed for Stereophile were Yamaha.

Most audiophile rags will publish a great review of any product for which
the manufacturer has taken out a 4-color, full page ad.

On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:05:41 -0400, "Robert L. Bass"
wrote:

Because Yamaha has a terrible reputation. Few Yamaha
products have ever gotten favorable reviews in the American
audiophile magazines, whereas Denon and Onkyo products
commonly do. Some of the worst-sounding surround
products I reviewed for Stereophile were Yamaha.

Most audiophile rags will publish a great review of any product for which
the manufacturer has taken out a 4-color, full page ad.

Did Jesus whisper this in your ear?

"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
...
Don't even THINK about buying anything Yamaha. Get the Denon.

Rubbish.
If you want "opinion", listen to this poster. If you want helpful advice,
listen to everyone else.

Don't even THINK about buying anything
Yamaha. Get the Denon.

Rubbish.
If you want "opinion", listen to this poster.
If you want helpful advice, listen to everyone else.

Hmm. I only offer opinions. For the most part they're educated opinions
but they are still opinions. That said, in my opinion the gentleman is
wrong. I've owned and installed Denon and Yamaha equipment and I find
Yamaha to be superior. My Yamaha RXV3000 is, for the money, among the best
around.

Regards,
Robert

=============================
Bass Home Electronics, Inc
2291 Pine View Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34231
877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
941-925-9747 Fax
941-232-0791 Wireless
Nextel Private ID - 161*21755*1
http://www.bass-home.com
=============================

No offense, but blanket statements like that are just plain bad advice.

I understand you may have had some bad listening experiences with Yamaha 25
years ago, but the company has changed its product line just a little bit
since then. I'm a fan of free speech, and you can continue saying whatever
you like. But to write off an entire company is something that everyone here
should take with a grain of salt - a very small grain.

I have found the Yamaha line to be exceptional once you get above a certain
price point. Their RX-V3000, 3300, V1, and Z1 receivers offer excceptional
quality. The new Z9 set to be released any day now offers high-performance
burr-brown 24-bit DACs for all 11 channels. While it lacks DVI switching, it
all but eclipses separates in its price class in terms of quality and
feature set.

I can also say the same for the Denon 5803.

As for your price point. Give them both a listen if you can, and see if you
like to listen to DSP when you watch movies. If you do, then the Yamaha will
have an edge. If you tastes are for mostly music, the Denon may sound better
to you.

- Clint DeBoer
CD Media Website Design & Marketing
www.cdmedia.com

"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
...
Don't even THINK about buying anything Yamaha. Get the Denon.

"hawke" wrote in message
...

I have found the Yamaha line to be exceptional once you get above a
certain
price point. Their RX-V3000, 3300, V1, and Z1 receivers offer excceptional
quality. The new Z9 set to be released any day now offers high-performance
burr-brown 24-bit DACs for all 11 channels. While it lacks DVI switching,
it
all but eclipses separates in its price class in terms of quality and
feature set.

The Z9 is FINALLY going to be a worthy contender since they now have adopted
THX.


Espen B

On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:39:44 +0200, "Espen Braathen"
wrote:


"hawke" wrote in message
m...

I have found the Yamaha line to be exceptional once you get above a
certain
price point. Their RX-V3000, 3300, V1, and Z1 receivers offer excceptional
quality. The new Z9 set to be released any day now offers high-performance
burr-brown 24-bit DACs for all 11 channels. While it lacks DVI switching,
it
all but eclipses separates in its price class in terms of quality and
feature set.

The Z9 is FINALLY going to be a worthy contender since they now have adopted
THX.

THX is no guarantee of worthiness, but is often a guarantee of a
licensing fee to increase the cost of a piece of equipment.

the Z9 is certainly a nice looking unit, and would be equally nice
without the THX stamp on the front

Grant Kinsley MD


Espen B

I´m amazed that this thread has 230 messages or more!

I´m amazed that this thread has 230 messages or more!

I'm looking to upgrade to a new Pro Logic II receiver and am undecided
between the Denon AVR-1603 or the Yamaha HTR-5550. I can get both for
the same price of $400 CAN. I haven't been able to compare the two
yet as they are sold by separate dealers where I'm from. Just wanted
to get the audiophile's opinion on this one. Thanks!

An audiophile would spend the $400 on a better stereo amp and actually get
decent tone.

Okay everyone, I thought I might put an end to this "heated" debate by
saying that I bought the Denon AVR-1603 yesterday. My choice was
relatively simple; unfortunately I wasn't able to sample both at the
same time, because they were being sold by separate dealers. But the
dealer selling the Denon was able to give me $100 trade-in for my
Pioneer dolby digital (non pro-logic II, non DTS), so I got the Denon
for $400 CAN. I got the dealer to showcase the receiver with the same
Paradigm Titan fronts that I currently own, and a CC-170 centre which
I also eventually bought! Unfortunately the Yamaha dealer didn't have
Paradigm speakers and their store and wouldn't offer me a tradein, so
I never even got to test the unit out. In the end I think I got a
steal because the 1603 was already marked down significantly because
they were the last two units in the store. They said once they were
gone, they'd get teh 1604s in which would sell back at regular price
of around $650.

So far I'm quite happy with the Denon. Finally listening to the DTS
surround tracks on my DVDs makes a world of a difference.
Unfortunately the numbers on the remote don't work in VCR mode, which
is a shame because I use my VCR like a cable box to extend the limited
channel range on my old TV. Oh well, I guess that means I'll have to
upgrade my TV soon!

Thanks for all the "opinions" strewn about in this thread. They
were.... insightful. ;-)

-- Jason

"Jason Wong" wrote in message
om...
Okay everyone, I thought I might put an end to this "heated" debate by
saying that I bought the Denon AVR-1603 yesterday. My choice was
relatively simple; unfortunately I wasn't able to sample both at the
same time, because they were being sold by separate dealers. But the
dealer selling the Denon was able to give me $100 trade-in for my
Pioneer dolby digital (non pro-logic II, non DTS), so I got the Denon
for $400 CAN. I got the dealer to showcase the receiver with the same
Paradigm Titan fronts that I currently own, and a CC-170 centre which
I also eventually bought! Unfortunately the Yamaha dealer didn't have
Paradigm speakers and their store and wouldn't offer me a tradein, so
I never even got to test the unit out. In the end I think I got a
steal because the 1603 was already marked down significantly because
they were the last two units in the store. They said once they were
gone, they'd get teh 1604s in which would sell back at regular price
of around $650.

So far I'm quite happy with the Denon. Finally listening to the DTS
surround tracks on my DVDs makes a world of a difference.
Unfortunately the numbers on the remote don't work in VCR mode, which
is a shame because I use my VCR like a cable box to extend the limited
channel range on my old TV. Oh well, I guess that means I'll have to
upgrade my TV soon!

Thanks for all the "opinions" strewn about in this thread. They
were.... insightful. ;-)


But useless in making your decision



-- Jason

"Leadfoot" wrote in message news:S1pcb.1582$hp5.655@fed1read04...

But useless in making your decision

Oh absolutely! I mean comeon guys, who CARES what Denon did in the
1970s!!!! Does that all matter, especially considering my original
post asked for opinions over one Denon model vs a Yamaha one? I
hardly think Denons rep back in the "late 70s and early 80s" has
anything to do with the AVR-1603. I don't know how a simple question
from a first-time poster could have ballooned into one hell of a large
thread, but it seems like some of you guys need to find a better
outlet to vent your argumentative and petty nature than wasting space
in the newsgroups. Save yourselves the time typing, you'll thank me
later when you avoid getting carpal tunnel syndrome.

Oh absolutely! I mean comeon guys, who CARES
what Denon did in the 1970s!!!! Does that all matter,
especially considering my original post asked for
opinions over one Denon model vs a Yamaha one?

Welcome to USENET. :^)

In article ,
"Robert L. Bass" wrote:

Oh absolutely! I mean comeon guys, who CARES
what Denon did in the 1970s!!!! Does that all matter,
especially considering my original post asked for
opinions over one Denon model vs a Yamaha one?

Welcome to USENET. :^)


cross posting is never a good thing
george

On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 01:13:35 -0400, "Robert L. Bass"
wrote:

Oh absolutely! I mean comeon guys, who CARES
what Denon did in the 1970s!!!! Does that all matter,
especially considering my original post asked for
opinions over one Denon model vs a Yamaha one?

Welcome to USENET. :^)

Sorry to jump in here; nothing really to add, but just wanted to say I
was a part of the longest freakin' thread in usenet history! But then
I just went back and read some of the posts; and I thought I was
off-topic!

"Jason Wong" wrote in message
om...
"Leadfoot" wrote in message
news:S1pcb.1582$hp5.655@fed1read04...

But useless in making your decision

Oh absolutely! I mean comeon guys, who CARES what Denon did in the
1970s!!!! Does that all matter, especially considering my original
post asked for opinions over one Denon model vs a Yamaha one? I
hardly think Denons rep back in the "late 70s and early 80s" has
anything to do with the AVR-1603. I don't know how a simple question
from a first-time poster could have ballooned into one hell of a large
thread, but it seems like some of you guys need to find a better
outlet to vent your argumentative and petty nature than wasting space
in the newsgroups. Save yourselves the time typing, you'll thank me
later when you avoid getting carpal tunnel syndrome.

Take 1

This audiophile says Denons have better base and Yamahas have better
surround processors.

But if you wait until you can up your budget by, ahem, 100%, you can
get the best of both worlds with inexpensive separates. Plus a few
more cables, of course


Take 2

I'm not an audiophile, per se, but from what I've read, heard and
experienced, George is spot on about Denons producing a better bass sound
and Yamaha being the better sound processor. At that price range, you
should go for the Yamaha because it sounds like you'd probably have
lower-end speakers that won't handle bass too well anyhow, so might as well
go for the better overall sound.

Take 3

I have a Yamaha 5550, and love it to bits. It's my first system, and I was
working to a budget (no sub) but it's great for the money.

Having quickly looked at the Denon specs (and obviously exhibting bias
here), if it bothers you, neither amp has true 6.1 outputs, but while the
Denon doesn't appear to have any 6.1 capability, the 5550 can handle 6.1
inputs by converting them to 5.1 and using a 'virtual' 6th speaker (which
basically means output from the two rear surrounds). It's not ideal, but it
does work surprisingly well

My DVD player only had coaxial output, and after being initially concerned,
I found this isn't something to worry about at all. Yes it has coaxial
input, but not for the default DVD channel. I think the default coaxial
input is CD. However, it's *very* easy to reconfigure the input labels in
the menu system so that the DVD signal is read from the coaxial input. The
manual tells you how to do it.

The remote is good, though how compatible you can make it with your other
equipment will depend upon the make of equipment. It works brilliantly with
my Sony DVD, but not at all with my, ahem, Schneider TV.

Matrix 6.1, changing inputs, and remote configuration are all in the manual.

Take 4

1) The specs for this Denon say 80W per channel, and the Yamaha 75W.
Does this translate into a large difference?

It translates into no difference.

Take 5

1) The specs for this Denon say 80W per channel, and the Yamaha 75W.
Does this translate into a large difference?

Not at all.


2) Does this Yamaha have no coaxial audio input for DVD? It appears to
only have one for CD, and optical input for DVD only. I wonder if that
makes me screwed because my DVD player has no optical audio output.

Why worry about having two optical players?

Take 6

I auditioned Denon, Yamaha, Sony and Marantz before I decided on the
Yamaha receiver for my home surround system. It sounded as good as units
costing 4 times as much. It also has pre amp outs for all channels so I
can bypass the Yamaha power amp. It has a very comprehensive feature set
AND you can disable the DSP processing. Feature for feature I think that
a $400-500 Yamaha is the way to go. Go to a Hi Fi store and audition
them through the same set of speakers.

Take 7

Don't even THINK about buying anything Yamaha. Get the Denon

Note: this isn't an opinion supported by anything the author wanted to add

Take 8

Because Yamaha has a terrible reputation. Few Yamaha products have ever
gotten
favorable reviews in the American audiophile magazines, whereas Denon and
Onkyo
products commonly do. Some of the worst-sounding surround products I
reviewed
for Stereophile were Yamaha

Take 9

Wow, talk about praising with faint damns.

Of the two units named, the original poster should buy the one
which has the most features he wants. Since he specifically mentioned
that he's interested in Pro Logic II, one thing to check into is
the configurability of the Pro Logic II mode. It's not price-correlated.
I have a Yammy 5540 and a Harmon Kardon AVR520; the latter cost
several hundred more than the former, and has more features and power, but
happens to be *less* configurable in DPL II made than the Yammy. The Yammies
allow you to adjust 'panorama' and a few other
user-configurable features of DPL II , whereas the H-K has
a 'fixed' DPL II config. Don't know about the Denon

Take 10

Hmm. I only offer opinions. For the most part they're educated opinions
but they are still opinions. That said, in my opinion the gentleman is
wrong. I've owned and installed Denon and Yamaha equipment and I find
Yamaha to be superior. My Yamaha RXV3000 is, for the money, among the best
around.


Take 11

No offense, but blanket statements like that are just plain bad advice.

I understand you may have had some bad listening experiences with Yamaha 25
years ago, but the company has changed its product line just a little bit
since then. I'm a fan of free speech, and you can continue saying whatever
you like. But to write off an entire company is something that everyone here
should take with a grain of salt - a very small grain.

I have found the Yamaha line to be exceptional once you get above a certain
price point. Their RX-V3000, 3300, V1, and Z1 receivers offer excceptional
quality. The new Z9 set to be released any day now offers high-performance
burr-brown 24-bit DACs for all 11 channels. While it lacks DVI switching, it
all but eclipses separates in its price class in terms of quality and
feature set.

I can also say the same for the Denon 5803.

As for your price point. Give them both a listen if you can, and see if you
like to listen to DSP when you watch movies. If you do, then the Yamaha will
have an edge. If you tastes are for mostly music, the Denon may sound better
to you.

end of takes



After weeding out the chaff you had 11 good takes on your question which
seemed to be in the Yamaha's favor slightly. However your decision was made
based on this statement.

"Unfortunately the Yamaha dealer didn't have Paradigm speakers and their
store and wouldn't offer me a tradein, so I never even got to test the unit
out."

It appears you made your decision primarily on price and (maybe) the Yamaha
dealers lack of foresight in having demo speakers that matched your own.

As it is I have a Ymaha RX-V630 I'm very happy with. I didn't weigh on this
topic because I haven't played with a denon receiver.

Denon was in the running when I decided to upgrade I just found they were
just a little too expensive vs the yamaha I was comparing them too