http://www.theinfozone.net/


Anyone notice that the Red ZCross has been denied access to New Orleans?

or am I missing something...




"Osama bin Katrina" might just be putting a few 'things' into perspective here.

nap wrote:

ahhh.. now we're on to Republicans and Christians.. not being either .. I'll
bet you lie awake at night in fear of them.

Now that you mention it...


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

Bob Cain wrote:


Roger W. Norman wrote:

If anyone knows of any of our RAP contributors that needs a place to live
for the next four months or whatever (my true guess is 18 months), whilst
this nation works towards some solution to this problem, I volunteer my
home, even at the expense of my wife becoming incensed about the
possibility.


Not to in any way detract from your kind offer, Roger, but what is
needed right now is people everywhere being able and willing to do this
without regard to common interest or commonality of any kind.

Oops. You were way ahead of me.


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

"Bob Cain" wrote in message
...


nap wrote:

ahhh.. now we're on to Republicans and Christians.. not being either ..
I'll
bet you lie awake at night in fear of them.

Now that you mention it...


lol!



Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

Jona Vark wrote:
"WillStG" wrote in message
oups.com...
Roger W. Norman wrote:
Name me a sunny day. I'm not blaming Bush because he's stupid. I'm
saying
he's stupid because of his actions. You take that whatever way you
determine. But show me a sunny day under the Bush Administration. R=
ead
my
blog. Do some research. Then eat my shorts.

Someday Roger, someday perhaps you might let some great tragedy
pass without giving in to the inevitable, kneejerk impulse to make a
political football out of it?

Whether it's a Natural Disaster, an Act of God or a Terrorist
Attack, somehow it all becomes an excersise in finger pointing and
political self superiority. Give it a rest at least for a while, please
- it will make our need to unite during a time of crisis a whole lot
easier for everyone.


Well said. I think the people pointing fingers are completely unaware of
what really happened. Of course they have every opportunity to get electe=
d,
get appointed and do better.


If a person doesn't know when it's time to shut up and be
supportive, it's either because they lack the personal experience of
serving in crisis situations or because they never really gave enough
of a damn about anyone to compel them to put politics aside. The
whole *can* be greater the sum of he parts - that's called "Unity".
Some people don't get _that_.

As George once said, "Isn't it a pity?"

People can of course run for office later as being more competent
leaders - fine. But claiming no one except your political party gives
a damn about humanity would be the height of arrogance and stupidity.

Will Miho
NY Music and TV/Audio Post Guy
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits

http://billhobbs.com/hobbsonline/007188.html


"David Morgan (MAMS)" wrote in message
news:iXoSe.10091$IT4.256@trnddc04...
http://www.theinfozone.net/


Anyone notice that the Red ZCross has been denied access to New Orleans?

or am I missing something...




"Osama bin Katrina" might just be putting a few 'things' into perspective
here.

Animix wrote:

http://billhobbs.com/hobbsonline/007188.html

That article is ****.

Why blame the Mayor ? Once the power and phones were out, 'City Hall' was
effectively powerless.

That's when federal resources are needed to tackle the problems.

Graham

Animix wrote:
http://billhobbs.com/hobbsonline/007188.html

Is it possible that pressing so many bus drivers into doing
service instead of evacuating and tending to their families
proved less than feasable? How many of those left behind in
the various refuges could have been organized to drive
busses in advance?


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

"Pooh Bear" wrote
in message
Animix wrote:

http://billhobbs.com/hobbsonline/007188.html

That article is ****.

It's valid.

Why blame the Mayor ? Once the power and phones were out,
'City Hall' was effectively powerless.

Evacuation is one of those things one does in advance.

That's when federal resources are needed to tackle the
problems.

Local officials who are brain dead?

"Nagin lashed out at federal officials yesterday for the
government's relief efforts, pleading for the government to
round up "500 buses" to send to New Orleans to evacuate
survivors."

"Before Katrina hit, the New Orleans Regional Transportation
Authority operated at least 364 buses, probably more."

" A commenter notes that the New Orleans Public School
system also had buses - hundreds of them."

Nagin: The federal government should round me up 500 busses
from across the U.S. , because I'm too brain dead to use
the 500+ busses in my back yard.

"Bob Cain" wrote in message

Animix wrote:
http://billhobbs.com/hobbsonline/007188.html

Is it possible that pressing so many bus drivers into
doing service instead of evacuating and tending to their
families proved less than feasable?

Before the Hurricane they should have let the bus drivers
pick up their own friends and families, first!

"Pooh Bear" wrote
in message

That's when federal resources are needed to tackle the
problems.


I don't think you exactly *get* the United States, Graham

Let's take the UK:

Population:

England 50 million
Wales 3 million
Scotland 5 million
N. Ireland 2 million

Do you realize that 4 out of 5 of the UK "states" have
smaller populations than any of the U.S. 5 largest cities?

Do you realize that England is only a tad larger than
California (33 million) or Texas and New York combined (41
million).

Remember, there are another 47 states with over 200 million
other people in them.

In the US our federal government *has* to be more of just a
coordinator of states, because there are so many states and
some of them are so large. The states are expected to be
more self-sufficient.

Many of the things you seem to think that the U.S. federal
government should do, are actually responsibilities of the
U.S. states.

And if you read between the lines in some of these posts,
there's plenty of evidence that states like New York and
California have been stepping up to their responsibilities.

Arny Krueger wrote:

"Pooh Bear" wrote
in message
Animix wrote:

http://billhobbs.com/hobbsonline/007188.html

That article is ****.

It's valid.

It's bigoted garbage and finger-pointing nay-saying.. I'd hoped you
might know the difference.


Why blame the Mayor ? Once the power and phones were out,
'City Hall' was effectively powerless.

Evacuation is one of those things one does in advance.

Which is easy to say with hindsight. I doubt a truly full evacuation was
actually *ever* possible. Would likely take several days.

That's when federal resources are needed to tackle the
problems.

Local officials who are brain dead?

Locals simply don't have those kind of resources.


"Nagin lashed out at federal officials yesterday for the
government's relief efforts, pleading for the government to
round up "500 buses" to send to New Orleans to evacuate
survivors."

"Before Katrina hit, the New Orleans Regional Transportation
Authority operated at least 364 buses, probably more."

" A commenter notes that the New Orleans Public School
system also had buses - hundreds of them."

Nagin: The federal government should round me up 500 busses
from across the U.S. , because I'm too brain dead to use
the 500+ busses in my back yard.

Look dummy. The bus drivers had been told to evacuate. Just like
everyone else !

Graham

Arny Krueger wrote:

"Bob Cain" wrote in message

Animix wrote:
http://billhobbs.com/hobbsonline/007188.html

Is it possible that pressing so many bus drivers into
doing service instead of evacuating and tending to their
families proved less than feasable?

Before the Hurricane they should have let the bus drivers
pick up their own friends and families, first!

So - given a realistic time scale - you would expect bus drivers only to
have to evacuate their families from a city that might not even get hit
by the hurricane ? Are you then going to compensate them for financial
losses if it doesn't hit ?

That's horse manure.

Graham

Arny Krueger wrote:

"Pooh Bear" wrote
in message

That's when federal resources are needed to tackle the
problems.

I don't think you exactly *get* the United States, Graham

Let's take the UK:

Population:

England 50 million
Wales 3 million
Scotland 5 million
N. Ireland 2 million

Do you realize that 4 out of 5 of the UK "states" have
smaller populations than any of the U.S. 5 largest cities?

Do you realize that England is only a tad larger than
California (33 million) or Texas and New York combined (41
million).

Remember, there are another 47 states with over 200 million
other people in them.

In the US our federal government *has* to be more of just a
coordinator of states, because there are so many states and
some of them are so large. The states are expected to be
more self-sufficient.

Many of the things you seem to think that the U.S. federal
government should do, are actually responsibilities of the
U.S. states.

And if you read between the lines in some of these posts,
there's plenty of evidence that states like New York and
California have been stepping up to their responsibilities.

Please explain your point in posting this.

Graham

I urge everyone to figure out what can be done. If someone will sponsor a
family's trip to DC, I'll put them up.

There is a Red Cross Shelter in DC that is taking folks from New Orleans.
You might want to get in contact with them.

I've been able to reach a few friends of mine down there by e-mail and
luckily they survived this. One of them is now homeless and may be on his
way here now. I'm waiting to hear.

There is also a relief effort being organized here to take people in.
Transportation has been the real issue, but that's being solved.

"Roger W. Norman" wrote in message
...
It's nice to know that at least one person is fine.

I urge everyone to figure out what can be done. If someone will sponsor a
family's trip to DC, I'll put them up. It won't be pretty and it won't be
fun. But it can be done and if just a few of us try, we can make a
difference. Any effort makes a difference but money isn't enough. But
it's
obvious that nothing the governments do will ever actually help. They may
save some lives, but what lives will they be?

Apparently people all over the country are now responding, regardless of
whether it's to my particular call or not. The idea is that Americans
have
to figure out this problem because our government can't. And if that's
the
way it's got to be then so be it. Nobody gets off scott free on this one.
Either it costs you in gas, or the loss of seafood, or any number of other
possibilities, or you step up and do something about it thereby making
what
you lost feel better because you helped. And even if it costs in food,
gas
or other commodities, we have the ability to bring this nation back
together
in common cause. Saving lives, saving families, and building on the
foundation of communal togetherness.

As I'm typing Condi Rice is again lying to the American public by making
statements not in evidence, like accepting help from outside sources.
From
what I remember just a couple of days ago, Hugo Chavez of Venezula offered
help and was turned down by no communications from the USA at all. The US
has not accepted any help from any agency of any other government in the
world. In the true Cowboy style of this piece of **** President, we'll go
it alone, damned the consequences.

****, what happened to Ain't to Proud to Beg?

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/

"David Morgan (MAMS)" wrote in message
news:WN2Se.58$Sx4.5@trnddc06...

"Roger W. Norman" wrote in message...

that no one has questions about our compadres in New Orleans who
obvious
ly
have to be missing on the forum.

I sent mail to Richard Webb and Jeannie Perkins... got an answer from
Jean,
she is fine - lost only the things that were at her work place and a car
left
in remote parking for mass transit... house came through fine. Nothing
yet
from 'El-Spider'. I don't know anyone else who was for sure there.

DM

"Pooh Bear" wrote in message
...


Arny Krueger wrote:

"Bob Cain" wrote in message

Animix wrote:
http://billhobbs.com/hobbsonline/007188.html

Is it possible that pressing so many bus drivers into
doing service instead of evacuating and tending to their
families proved less than feasable?

Before the Hurricane they should have let the bus drivers
pick up their own friends and families, first!

So - given a realistic time scale - you would expect bus drivers only to
have to evacuate their families from a city that might not even get hit
by the hurricane ? Are you then going to compensate them for financial
losses if it doesn't hit ?

That's horse manure.



I think he was being sarcastic.

The Governor and Mayor certianly would have been worthless on 9/11.

That said..

This is bigger than a lot of us can comprehend. UNless we are there.





Graham

It's the mayor's job to see that warnings are given. It's also his job to
see that the available resources are utiilized for an evacuation in an
emergency. He gave an evacuation order on national television two days
before the storm hit. Now it appears that he could have followed that up
with a real means to evacuate the people. I've heard interviews with him
recently railing about not having the authority to do this or that. Were
these buses under his authority? The buses were apparently available to
mitigate the human loss. How many would have used the buses if they had been
available..........who know? .......but it sure looks like they were
available but weren't used. I'm just wondering why.

Also, the federal troops must be requested by the state governor. I'm
wondering why she didn't request federal assistance until the levees had
been breached. She had 6500 national guard troops to be her eyes and ears on
the ground. She did have authority over these troops and could have had them
deployed before the storm. I'm wondering why this didn't happen.

The typical MO for a CYA these days is to be the first to scream the loudest
in order to deflect attention from one's own blunderings (name your
party/interest group here....it's not exclusive to either one) and it's
usually the case that the initial *screamor* is blaming the *screamee* for
his own screwups before he becomes the *screamee* him/her self. It's so
predictable that it usually brings the complaintant under immediate scrutiny
in a situation like this.





"Pooh Bear" wrote in message
...

Animix wrote:

http://billhobbs.com/hobbsonline/007188.html

That article is ****.

Why blame the Mayor ? Once the power and phones were out, 'City Hall' was
effectively powerless.

That's when federal resources are needed to tackle the problems.

Graham

Jona Vark wrote:

"Pooh Bear" wrote in message
...


Arny Krueger wrote:

"Bob Cain" wrote in message

Animix wrote:
http://billhobbs.com/hobbsonline/007188.html

Is it possible that pressing so many bus drivers into
doing service instead of evacuating and tending to their
families proved less than feasable?

Before the Hurricane they should have let the bus drivers
pick up their own friends and families, first!

So - given a realistic time scale - you would expect bus drivers only to
have to evacuate their families from a city that might not even get hit
by the hurricane ? Are you then going to compensate them for financial
losses if it doesn't hit ?

That's horse manure.

I think he was being sarcastic.

Somewhat scarily, I believe Arny was actually being *serious* !

The Governor and Mayor certianly would have been worthless on 9/11.

How can you conclude that ? Bush was still reading an upside-down book and
dragging his knuckles as the WTC was being destroyed !


That said..

This is bigger than a lot of us can comprehend. UNless we are there.

Watching live broadcasts on www.wwltv.com taught me a lot about what's going
on.

Graham

I did. In fact, we should have 400 evacuees coming into the DC Armory
tomorrow or Tuesday, but they only want money or food. I can do either, but
that wasn't my point, as has been exhibited by the hijacking of my original
post. The idea was that we, as Americans, should be able to offer MORE,
like a real place to live, a real place to try to gain work to rebuild
lives, a real place to take a shower or put a child to bed, or give them
something they can hold on to.

However this Jona guy wanted to go off on me, it doesn't make any
difference. He actually took time away from my efforts in trying to help
individual people and families towards getting somewhere that they can do
something for themselves. Anyone that doesn't recognize the obstacles
placed into the path of people wanting to help themselves once the
government gets involved simply haven't paid attention. I'm absolutely
positive that the American people are better able to take care of other
Americans, physically, emotionally and psychologically, than the federal
government.

For those interested in the DC area with supporting families from the
devastation in the Gulf, I will be glad to act as a central point of contact
because I've already been working on developing contacts. I may or may not
be able to get through the red tape, but I can only try. Numbers mean more
than individuals that won't get anywhere within the agencies involved.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/

"Animix" wrote in message
...
I urge everyone to figure out what can be done. If someone will sponsor
a
family's trip to DC, I'll put them up.

There is a Red Cross Shelter in DC that is taking folks from New Orleans.
You might want to get in contact with them.

I've been able to reach a few friends of mine down there by e-mail and
luckily they survived this. One of them is now homeless and may be on his
way here now. I'm waiting to hear.

There is also a relief effort being organized here to take people in.
Transportation has been the real issue, but that's being solved.

"Roger W. Norman" wrote in message
...
It's nice to know that at least one person is fine.

I urge everyone to figure out what can be done. If someone will sponsor
a
family's trip to DC, I'll put them up. It won't be pretty and it won't
be
fun. But it can be done and if just a few of us try, we can make a
difference. Any effort makes a difference but money isn't enough. But
it's
obvious that nothing the governments do will ever actually help. They
may
save some lives, but what lives will they be?

Apparently people all over the country are now responding, regardless of
whether it's to my particular call or not. The idea is that Americans
have
to figure out this problem because our government can't. And if that's
the
way it's got to be then so be it. Nobody gets off scott free on this
one.
Either it costs you in gas, or the loss of seafood, or any number of
other
possibilities, or you step up and do something about it thereby making
what
you lost feel better because you helped. And even if it costs in food,
gas
or other commodities, we have the ability to bring this nation back
together
in common cause. Saving lives, saving families, and building on the
foundation of communal togetherness.

As I'm typing Condi Rice is again lying to the American public by making
statements not in evidence, like accepting help from outside sources.
From
what I remember just a couple of days ago, Hugo Chavez of Venezula
offered
help and was turned down by no communications from the USA at all. The
US
has not accepted any help from any agency of any other government in the
world. In the true Cowboy style of this piece of **** President, we'll
go
it alone, damned the consequences.

****, what happened to Ain't to Proud to Beg?

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/

"David Morgan (MAMS)" wrote in message
news:WN2Se.58$Sx4.5@trnddc06...

"Roger W. Norman" wrote in message...

that no one has questions about our compadres in New Orleans who
obvious
ly
have to be missing on the forum.

I sent mail to Richard Webb and Jeannie Perkins... got an answer
from
Jean,
she is fine - lost only the things that were at her work place and a
car
left
in remote parking for mass transit... house came through fine.
Nothing
yet
from 'El-Spider'. I don't know anyone else who was for sure there.

DM

I was more looking towards finding if anyone was missing that might be
within our group of a group of our group. I didn't really expect people
from New Orleans to respond.

I'll give more information about the other efforts, although I posted just a
minute ago about what I've found out about my own area here just outside of
Washington, DC. Seems that some 400 evacuees will be heading this way in
the next day or two.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/

"Peter Larsen" wrote in message
...
"Roger W. Norman" wrote:

that no one has questions about our compadres in New Orleans ...

I have had many and I was and I stil am deeply concerned about the
gravety, and took the silence here as an indication of how severe the
situation is, and still was perplexed by that silence and had expected
someone to post something. However it was somewhat obvious that people
with no mains power and flooded and or erased cities would not be likely
to to post about it presently.

Roger W. Norman


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************

Not a problem. Well, still might be a problem with my wife. Loss of her
father this year, a couple of my family, a stroke in my family, and more
dependence on all of us has kind of put things over the top. But I've
always found that humanity isn't the level of what you can't do, but what
you can do and no one knows what they can do until they try it. If there is
anything that requires trying harder, this must be it. If not, then we'll
be better prepared for the next time. Whatever doesn't kill you makes you
stronger. Perhaps we've come to the time where the stronger help the weaker
and we all get stronger.

But not if we put up with what I've been coming up with from the agencies
involved. Offering a person a place to live under these circumstances is
harder than trying to find a hen's tooth to extract. I've spent hours with
only regulations being regurgitated to me, and truthfully, if there were
regulations, why wasn't there action? And doesn't anyone have the authority
to say the regulations aren't working and step outside of the box?

Those of us that are Americans should be able to offer our homes to
Americans in need without question. Period. And local regulations
shouldn't stop us from housing more than what the normal circumstance
regulations require.

Time to do the right thing.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/

"Bob Cain" wrote in message
...


Bob Cain wrote:


Roger W. Norman wrote:

If anyone knows of any of our RAP contributors that needs a place to
live
for the next four months or whatever (my true guess is 18 months),
whilst
this nation works towards some solution to this problem, I volunteer my
home, even at the expense of my wife becoming incensed about the
possibility.


Not to in any way detract from your kind offer, Roger, but what is
needed right now is people everywhere being able and willing to do this
without regard to common interest or commonality of any kind.

Oops. You were way ahead of me.


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

I have an earlier response below. My desires to actually help families are
going to take one hell of a lot of work.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/

"Bob Cain" wrote in message
...


Roger W. Norman wrote:
Well, I can't believe I've gotten only a couple of responses, mostly
from
people that know me, but I'm now going to try to get in touch with
authorities to get a family here to offer them shelter.

Right on, Roger. Doing that will make you a giant in my eyes.


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

This is ridiculous. You people don't get one ****ing thing I've been
talking about before my little bout with Jona, do you? Help by actually
helping. That's all I'm asking. No one can get a job with the Astrodome as
their return address (unless tax situations are suspended). Papa Johns
offered jobs yet who could drive a car they don't have in a neighborhood
they don't know in a state where they don't have legal residence?

Let's face it. This is bad, bad, bad. Children are going to have
nightmares and parents have to be there to sooth them. Parents need to know
that they have a place to work out of that won't go away because the
government has changed their minds. Life needs to go back to normal for the
people even if life isn't normal in the place they used to live.

**** who's right or wrong. I'll leave that to my blog, but what I've been
saying is that we, as part of the American and world community, need to step
up to the plate and take over where others holding greater responsibility
have failed.

Don't change this into a political argument. Change it back into what I
thought was a positive cry for helping people beyond help but not beyond
hope.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Pooh Bear" wrote
in message
Animix wrote:

http://billhobbs.com/hobbsonline/007188.html

That article is ****.

It's valid.

Why blame the Mayor ? Once the power and phones were out,
'City Hall' was effectively powerless.

Evacuation is one of those things one does in advance.

That's when federal resources are needed to tackle the
problems.

Local officials who are brain dead?

"Nagin lashed out at federal officials yesterday for the
government's relief efforts, pleading for the government to
round up "500 buses" to send to New Orleans to evacuate
survivors."

"Before Katrina hit, the New Orleans Regional Transportation
Authority operated at least 364 buses, probably more."

" A commenter notes that the New Orleans Public School
system also had buses - hundreds of them."

Nagin: The federal government should round me up 500 busses
from across the U.S. , because I'm too brain dead to use
the 500+ busses in my back yard.

Now that Texas is requestiong help from other states ...

If Roger's offer is sincere I would have to agree with him at this point.
People are going to Minn, Mass, etc..

Roger.. if your politics aren't in the right place your heart surely is.

I gave to the Red Cross.. I mentioned guests to my wife.. She reminded me we
have only 1 bathroom and most of the rest of the house under some sort of
rennovation.. But I am certainly not adverse to making the same offer if I
can figure out how to do it.

Just as a bright point, WPFW all weekend has been working as a
non-governmental touchpoint for organising local resources af housing (they
have a group with at least one building with available space and a call for
carpenters to work it into living space gratis) and other resources in DC

Is it possible that pressing so many bus drivers into doing
service instead of evacuating and tending to their families
proved less than feasable? How many of those left behind in
the various refuges could have been organized to drive
busses in advance?

A good point to bolster your post is the Jefferson Parish's Emergency
Management Director's situation where he had to be on job whilst his mother
drowned. The police all had family in jeapordy and many chose to evacuate
rather than tend to their duties to a city who's evacuation has been
ordered. And how not? They'd been ordered to evacuate.

The reason to have emergency plans in place is to have outside agencies who
can come in simply because those involved with the day to day have to
include their own in part of the emergency. Imagine how those policemen who
stood on duty for 5 days must feel if they find any of their own dead in the
rubble. A wife, a child, or worse, never to find a wife or a child.

Once a Mayor proclaims an evacuation necessary, the funds immediately become
the province of the Governor. If the Governor proclaims a state of
emergency then they can call in the National Guard troops. If the President
doesn't declare a State of Emergency, federal funds don't come down and the
National Guard is largely able to deploy TO the location, but unable to do
anything WITHIN the location. The devolvement of FEMA into a terrorist
attack only agency simply wasn't prepared to give assistance. The past two
FEMA Directors have done nothing more than manage a splinter in their
child's heel. How the hell could anything get done with no one in charge
nor paying attention but at the local and state levels, and no one to push
anyone to action?

I don't believe anyone can blame either the Mayor of New Orleans or the
Governor of Louisiana because they made numerous calls for federal aid from
Tuesday on. They understood immediately that the breeching of the levee
meant devastation of New Orleans. For years they had been trying to get
Bush to include less than 1/3 the $250 million allocated in this year's
Transportation budget for an Alaskan bridge to a 50 inhabitant island,
ostensibly putting the only lonely ferry captain out of business. Only the
federal government didn't catch the implications of PEOPLE CRYING FOR HELP,
PEOPLE ON ROOFS DYING and the TV PICTURES BROADCAST TO THE WORLD.

Islamic fundamentalists are again dancing and thinking God is on their side
and planning new attacks as we complain.

However, take this either to another forum or another thread. I only asked
for help in housing people in need. Everything else is bull**** until these
people have some type of life to live.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/

"Bob Cain" wrote in message
...


Animix wrote:
http://billhobbs.com/hobbsonline/007188.html



Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

No, Arny. That's not the way emergency management works. Those under an
emegency shouldn't have to make the decision to take their own first over
others that might be in as great or greater need, or vice versa. You show
remarkably shallow thinking in your statement for someone that develops test
environments that take all things into consideration.

Again, the idea of emergency management is to escalate the management from
local to county to state to federal, ostensbily because anyone bound to try
to work within the emergency will have personal and emotional connections
that could make them ineffective. I've worked a lot in this in testing
(nuclear shock hardening problems) this type of scenario and it's not
something one can simply lay on the people involved. The police of a
locality are more often required to reside in that locality, which means
they have family there, which means they have an emotional and personal
stake in their own agendas. This promotes the possibility of abandonment of
duties and it's reasonable for them to do so. But this is the way cities
have been thinking for years. In DC, for example, it's often been brought
up to charge police or anyone a surcharge on their income if they live
outside of the city. If they live inside of the city and there's a major
problem, they'll be inclind to consider the fate of their own. Not
necessarily a true factor with police or firemen because of their devotion
to duty, but still, when New Orleans was ordered to evacuate, how can you
say "well, wait a minute, all you policemen and firemen just hold your
positions".

That's the reason for the escalation. Someone else gets to make the call,
and then if policemen and firemen are told to evacuate, they evacuate. To
suggest differently is a level of callousness as I'd not have believed of
you before, Arny. Both happened in this circumstance, but nothing was
forthcoming from the federal government. The chain of command broke down,
the authority went away, and no one is going to do their job over losing
their family unless circumstances are so extreme that they can't help their
families anyway.

Picking up their families first is just the same as busses coming to hotels
and leaving non-hotel registered guests behind in an emergency. No one has
the right to deny another of life, particularly in an emergency. I'll tread
water in hopes that my family gets to safety. I'd like to think I'd do the
same if ANY family I can help actually get to safety. But I'd be there
making certain my family can get to safety before I'd be there for anyone
else, and that's just part of the human existence. What would you do, do
you suppose? And I'm not picking on you, just asking for your usual concise
thoughts.

The entire system fell down because it wasn't supported by the highest
authority in the land, who, by the way, happened to be out giving speeches
about how good of a President he is.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Bob Cain" wrote in message

Animix wrote:
http://billhobbs.com/hobbsonline/007188.html

Is it possible that pressing so many bus drivers into
doing service instead of evacuating and tending to their
families proved less than feasable?

Before the Hurricane they should have let the bus drivers
pick up their own friends and families, first!

Well, you succumbed to the diatribes promoted by Jona, of whom at least one
has suggested was you in disguise.

I only offered an alternative to government involvement with the housing of
evacuees. You have a better idea? Express it. I notice you didn't answer
my original post. Perhaps you have no suggestions?

In the words of the Jefferson Parish President, "Nobody is coming to get
you". I don't need more than that to say that Americans need to do
something different than they did after 9/11 and offer money. We need to
HOUSE 100s of thousands of people, not wareHOUSE them.

How Jona or whomever hijacked my original post to become another political
battle is beyond me, but believe me, there is no battle because anyone
supposing that they have a leg to stand on by supporting this President's
reactions to Katrina's devastation is simply irreconcillable in the face of
the facts.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/

"WillStG" wrote in message
oups.com...
Roger W. Norman wrote:
Name me a sunny day. I'm not blaming Bush because he's stupid. I'm
saying
he's stupid because of his actions. You take that whatever way you
determine. But show me a sunny day under the Bush Administration. Read
my
blog. Do some research. Then eat my shorts.

Someday Roger, someday perhaps you might let some great tragedy
pass without giving in to the inevitable, kneejerk impulse to make a
political football out of it?

Whether it's a Natural Disaster, an Act of God or a Terrorist
Attack, somehow it all becomes an excersise in finger pointing and
political self superiority. Give it a rest at least for a while, please
- it will make our need to unite during a time of crisis a whole lot
easier for everyone.

Will Miho
NY Music and TV/Audio Post Guy
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits

You are one hell of an idiot. As stupid as a piece of dirt with holes in
it. Personal experience in a time of crisis? President Bush? Or YOU?
I've had crisis ringing around me in the sounds of bullets and mortars and
friends screaming and dying due to battle. Would that Bush had the same
life experiences. But you? Will, you still have no brains and show it each
and every ****ing time you type something here. Well, I'll give you the
exception of knowledge about audio because I still think you're pretty smart
about that, but ...

If you got the idea of true "unity" you'd be behind me in trying to help the
people devastated by this calamity by giving them homes to live in, ****ters
that don't have 15 other people grunting at the same time, beds for kids
that don't include the snoring of elders, and the ability of one to simply
sooth their child over their nightmares of rising water and grown-ups acting
outside of the norm.

But you. You chose to attack me for what you perceive to be ignoring unity
when what I've offered is the ultimate in unity. I believe you are Jona,
sliding in to have a conversation with yourself when you could be doing
something good by asking the same question I am and trying to organize
honest temporary homes for victims of the devastation.

You know, if you don't want to offer a person or a family a place to live
during this time of crisis, then perhaps you shouldn't say anything at all.
I'm making the offer. I don't need to know what you think about it Jona.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/

"WillStG" wrote in message
oups.com...
Jona Vark wrote:
"WillStG" wrote in message
oups.com...
Roger W. Norman wrote:
Name me a sunny day. I'm not blaming Bush because he's stupid. I'm
saying
he's stupid because of his actions. You take that whatever way you
determine. But show me a sunny day under the Bush Administration.
Read
my
blog. Do some research. Then eat my shorts.

Someday Roger, someday perhaps you might let some great tragedy
pass without giving in to the inevitable, kneejerk impulse to make a
political football out of it?

Whether it's a Natural Disaster, an Act of God or a Terrorist
Attack, somehow it all becomes an excersise in finger pointing and
political self superiority. Give it a rest at least for a while, please
- it will make our need to unite during a time of crisis a whole lot
easier for everyone.


Well said. I think the people pointing fingers are completely unaware of
what really happened. Of course they have every opportunity to get
elected,
get appointed and do better.


If a person doesn't know when it's time to shut up and be
supportive, it's either because they lack the personal experience of
serving in crisis situations or because they never really gave enough
of a damn about anyone to compel them to put politics aside. The
whole *can* be greater the sum of he parts - that's called "Unity".
Some people don't get _that_.

As George once said, "Isn't it a pity?"

People can of course run for office later as being more competent
leaders - fine. But claiming no one except your political party gives
a damn about humanity would be the height of arrogance and stupidity.

Will Miho
NY Music and TV/Audio Post Guy
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits

Well, **** for brains, at least 400 evacuees are coming here to DC. So much
for your knowledge about how large the situation is. Already there are
hundreds of thousands of people spread out from North Carolina to Texas and
all points in between. And by Thursday I should know whether I can actually
offer my home because this government doesn't have the scenario set up in
order to allow it. Once someone is in the care of this government it
appears that they don't want to let go. They'll take money and on a local
basis, food., but not an offer to give a person or a family a home for the
duration.

So you know nothing and show it. You know nothing about the breadth of the
problem, nor the depth that could be plumbed if it were allowed. You don't
know what these people are going through and so you mock the efforts others
may make, but you become the idiot because it's obvious to all of the rest
of us what can be done if we stand together and offer our help in terms of
housing, security and a level of caringness that you obviously don't
understand.

Perhaps your world is smaller than mine. A thousand miles is only a moments
thought for anyone that really wants to help. For those that don't, well, a
thousand miles seems like, I don't know, a thousand miles?

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/

"nap" wrote in message
m...

"SSJVCmag" wrote in message
...
On 9/2/05 8:36 PM, in article
,


a very poor interpretation of my post. Good thing you are not an
interpreter.

focus on this:

If you offer your house.. and you are thousands of miles away.. you
ought to think about how you are going to get someone there.

Not having a car is not degrading. Just a fact. You thought I was
denegrating people and You were wrong. Merely pointing out a cold hard
fact
that .. unless you can get them to your house .. it is an empty offer.
better to give to the Red Cross for now..

So rants about Republicans and Christians and Pat Robertson and all
this
nonsense are completely assanine.

I am not so stupid as to offer my home to someone who didn't even have
a
car to get the **** out of N.O.

I'll explain that to you . IT doesn't say I would NOT offer my home it
DOES
say I wouldn't offer it if there were no way to get anyone there. Get a
grip
.

Your racist remarks about 'darkies' was truly pathetic. Pretty sad.

Cool. Thanks John. I'm not sure they will get governmental approval, but
you know if I move stuff out of the studio I have enough space for some
people. Still, Bev is concerned, both about the evacuees, but about our
home too.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/

"SSJVCmag" wrote in message
...
Just as a bright point, WPFW all weekend has been working as a
non-governmental touchpoint for organising local resources af housing
(they
have a group with at least one building with available space and a call
for
carpenters to work it into living space gratis) and other resources in DC

No, dip****. They don't abbreviate it. They designate it as the
Congressional Black Caucus. Black people have to be precise, correct and
wary all the time. If you don't know that, you obviously wouldn't
understand why precision is necessary.

And don't try to use some webmaster's designation as the true way to say it.
It IS the CONGRESSIONAL BLACK CAUCUS. I've spoken to Jesse Jackson there,
I've spoken to Rep. Conyers and a number of other Black Caucus members there
and here in my own home. My sister-in-law's ex-mother-in-law is Eleanor
Norton-Holmes, the DC Representative to the Congress of the United States.
My nephew-in-law is her grandson. Or her grandson is my nephew. Either
way, I believe I have better ties to the Black Caucus (as it is normally
abbreviated) is much closer than yours.

CBC means Complete Blood Count to anyone with a normal education.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/

"Jona Vark" wrote in message
m...

"Roger W. Norman" wrote in message
...
Don't recall seeing you there. Don't recall anyone calling it that,
either.
Then again, I only have experience. You probably have better insight.



I've been to a number of Congressional Black Caucus meetings and
parties.

yeah.. you didn't see me..

If you HAD been to CBC meetings you would have known the abbreviation.

Try these links!

www.house.gov/cummings/cbc/cbchome.htm

www.cbcfinc.org

www.cbcfhealth.org

http://www.congressionalblackcaucus.net/

www.cbcinstitute.org

www.sas.upenn.edu/African_Studies/ Govern_Political/CBC_Guide.html

"CBC stands by Wal-Mart
The Congressional Black Caucus (CBC) has flatly rejected a major labor
union
's
call to cut ties to Wal-Mart lobbyists and executives who have been ..."


http://www.hillnews.com/thehill/expo...051005/cbc.htm
l



and on and on..




.










--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/

"Jona Vark" wrote in message
.. .

"Roger W. Norman" wrote in message
...
Oh, so I see you haven't been paying attention. Not unusual for a
someone
that doesn't care. 30% of New Orleans was below the poverty line.
Mostly
the same 30% are blacks.

When you know what you are talking about come back with something
intelligent. And what is the CBC? Committe of Blacks Council?

um.. it is the Congressional Black Caucus. Normally referred to as the
CBC.
Google it.

(you, the professional political blogger extrordinaire.. ought to have
known
that .)

This is cool.. I didn't have to use any profanity or anything! You're
doing
such a great job of making an ass of yourself.






I agree with John. You aren't worth the trouble because you have no
brains.

Classy.. although it doesn't explain why you spent the afternoon
responding
to me.



I admit that John didn't say that, so you can see that it's an
assessment
all my own.

Liek the one that led you to offer your home to people who couldn't
get
there?



You couldn't wear a dunce cap because you don't have the brains
of a dunce.


It's recess time.. pull out your blanket and pillow.

In fact, you remind me of, oh, what's his name? Karl Rove?


Ahh.. yes.. the evil Karl Rove who has outsmarted the left for so long
it
isn't even funny anymore.


--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/

"Jona Vark" wrote in message
.. .

"Roger W. Norman" wrote in message
...
My blog is a well thought out offering of the options. You,
however,
seem
to want to believe in something that has a dead city with people
dying
every
hour. But that's ok. They are poor black people and the world
is
better
off without them, right?

Typical left winger. Try not to act like a racist ok? It is out of
place
here. The CBC is doing a good job of that. No need for you to
chime
in.
I
don't think we mentioned black people.





\
Try answering my blog point by point rather than your joke of a
post
here
when what I'm doing is trying to energize people towards doing
the
right
thing.

It isn;t worth the effort.


Even if you won't open up your house to strangers, why don't you
shut the **** up?

That's classy.
You're confused. I never said I would NOT open my house up to
someone.
BUT
IF THEY CAN'T GET HERE it is an empty offer.. to make you feel
better?


It's not up to you whether others do what they deem
correct and I realize what's at stake for them. So do they.
You,
however,
simply want to say "NO" because that's your right. So be it.
If
you
say
no, then do so quietly because I'm not interested in people that
won't
help.
I'm interested in people that will.

I have already sent thousands. You are blogging and blaming and
making
empty
offers.

I am sure N.O. thanks you for that.


blogs.. whatever.




--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/

"Jona Vark" wrote in message
...

"Roger W. Norman" wrote in message
...
Name me a sunny day. I'm not blaming Bush because he's
stupid.
I'm
saying
he's stupid because of his actions. You take that whatever
way
you
determine. But show me a sunny day under the Bush
Administration.
Read
my
blog. Do some research. Then eat my shorts.

Your blog is nothing more than a liberal sore loser rant on
the
rabid
left's
Salon.com. Irrelevant as a fart in the wind.

blog.. what a joke.






--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/

"Jona Vark" wrote in message
. ..
yeah.. blame this president you think is an idiot for
everything
under
the
sun.

At least you're doing your part.

Of course, he'll have to take credit for every sunny day
also.

Fine dude. I have been under renovations here for most of last year and
this year too, but I not only made the offer, I am working on doing
something about it. I have the roofing crew coming over Tuesday to fix the
NEW 50 YEAR roof they just put on. I will have to pay the final payment of
$5680 to do so. For me to make the offer I made is going probably going to
cost my wife and I $20,000. One cannot offer that type of commitment
without meaning it. I have reservations, like I don't want known junkies in
the house, etc., but I don't believe that is unreasonable. It might seem
heartless under the circumstances, but I shouldn't have to subject my family
to such people just because I want to help. Then again, who knows? I may
find that any reasonable person in a reasonable situation can rise above the
conditions of their normal lives. Certainly no one's normal life includes
death, destruction, feces in the streets along with dead bodies and cemetary
corpses. Who knows? I don't. And I'm not going to claim that I don't do
drugs. I will say that I just haven't been able to get any for the past 18
years, so probably that means I don't do drugs. But it also means I know
the consequences of dealing with people that have drug problems.

You have to remember, you brought up the bull****. I said it's necessary
for Americans to help Americans. 400 evacuees are supposed to be coming in
within the next few days to the DC Armory, but the red tape seems pretty
hard to cut. I don't know why. It seems to me that the government should
be more than willing to allow anyone to help that wants, but right now it is
not the circumstance.

And btw, I appreciate you're noticing that the problem might well
incorporate what I was suggesting. I don't have to have an argument with
you on politics as long as these people have a home, a place to shower and
eat, and a means to get their lives back together. Whether I'm going to be
allowed to do that for someone or some family, I don't know. But the offer
was real, the ideals real, and the bull**** ends here.

When I pointed you to my blog, regardless of what you perceived as anti-Bush
stuff, the idea was that people who have lost EVERYTHING means that they
have NOTHING. Some of that nothing means they don't even have the people
they married and chose to spend their lives with, or children, and no parent
should outlive their child, or simply not knowing what happened to everyone
else in their families. A stabile home means some place to begin to live
life again, rather than living a single day. If we can't open up our hearts
that much then this is indeed NOT the America I grew up in. And it's
apparent that America needs to stand up and take notice by giving a hand,
and that doesn't mean money. What use is money when there is no where to
buy food, no water to drink, no telephones to call family members, no way to
cook?

No, I like my idea better and it's sincere, and it's real, and I'm hoping
that I can help provide some hope for someone or some family. My studio is
only 630 sq feet, but it can hold a family of four if I move/sell my
equipment and move my sleep sofa down from upstairs (there's already a
fouton in the studio - long story). I only have two bathrooms, one with a
shower, and it would be a major hardship for us to increase our empty nest
home of two into a house of 6 but it could be done. Whether it will be done
is up to the government and my wife. And I've seen her tears too. This is
going to be hard on all of us for a couple of years at the least.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/

"Jona Vark" wrote in message
. ..
Now that Texas is requestiong help from other states ...

If Roger's offer is sincere I would have to agree with him at this point.
People are going to Minn, Mass, etc..

Roger.. if your politics aren't in the right place your heart surely is.

I gave to the Red Cross.. I mentioned guests to my wife.. She reminded me
we
have only 1 bathroom and most of the rest of the house under some sort of
rennovation.. But I am certainly not adverse to making the same offer if I
can figure out how to do it.

Roger W. Norman wrote:


I believe you are Jona,
sliding in to have a conversation with yourself when you could be doing



Bingo.

Roger W. Norman wrote:

CBC means Complete Blood Count to anyone with a normal education.

Sheesh, and I thought it was Canadian radio! I like that big band station
on 560 KC... comes in very well after dark here.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Oh, and let me specify some of the red tape that one might go through in
order to try to help on this.

First, there are local codes if you own a single family dwelling. That
means single family housing. To have two families in the same house is a no
no. My adjacent neighbors, who just happen to be hispanic, for about 3
years had about 15 people living there. I don't know how, it's a smaller
house than mine. Ultimately the county split them up and I'm told it was
due to the number of cars registered there (and yes, there were a number of
cars there). Still, a specific number of bedrooms means a set number of
occupants (Montgomery County, Md) and all of the same family (I assume the
hispanics got away with all having the same last name, but maybe that could
be viewed as a racist observation).

What this means is that having a second family in a house designated as a
single family home is a problem. Locally this would need to be suspended in
order to be legal in Montgomer County, Md.

Secondly, with the passage of the Patriot Act, there are problems with
having a number of different named individuals having ID from the same
house, which is somewhat like what the county requirements are. The point
being that since there are sections of the Patriot Act that talk about
single identities, having two surnames in the same house would bring
suspicion upon that house, even were they legal, and it's also to dissuade
co-mingling of families, related or not.

Now it's a fact that there is a One ID portion of the Patriot Act (NOT the
National ID initiative) that says any individual may only have one
identification, and this goes towards one applying for an ID from Maryland
if they have and ID from Mississipi, for example. In order for them to get
an ID from Maryland they have to have an agency in Mississippi for Maryland
to send the ID back to. Now if they CAN do so, and then can return to
Mississippi in four months, there will have been no agency to receive the
returned ID, and they will not be allowed to turn in their Maryland ID for a
new Mississippi ID. Without the National ID database being in place for
Mississippi for a few months, it would kick back onto Maryland. And without
Maryland being able to check the National ID database with Mississippi,
there will be no new ID for the person displaced to Maryland. In other
words, we've hit the proverbial Catch-22. This also assumes that things
won't be back to normal in four months. And I have to say that nothing will
be the same as before last week in four months.

So the federal government, in it's efforts to fight terrorism, has made ANY
people displaced by a natural disaster subject to their "involuntery
incarceration" and subject solely to the federal government. People without
any states to call home. The people can't go anywhere that the federal
government doesn't allow, and they can't go outside of what the federal
government specifies as identifiable. Since they can't get new ID, and
their old ID isn't necessarily verifiable, all the people under federal
jurisdiction at this point are simply in limbo. How that turns out I don't
know. What it means unless certain laws and local codes are suspended for
the duration is questionable, but the federal government isn't going to give
up on the idea of One ID.

One of the last things I would want happening to my family because of the
federal government's stupid ideas is to have it subjected to federal
searches without warrants on unfounded suspicions just because I wanted to
help a family out of the problems they face. The possibility? Maybe small,
I don't know. But if only the federal government is in charge of SOME of
the people, then it's questionable what they could do, given what we know
the federal government is capable of doing.

If things change in the near term, I'll let you know. But unless I'm wrong,
these people are going to be in governmental limbo for a long time.

However, there's nothing in either local or state or federal laws that says
one can't have guests in their homes for however long they wish. They just
can't get new ID so they can get jobs without the ability to file taxes in
those states.

This is all my interpretation of the laws based on my conversations with
local and federal authorities and it would be nice to hear from a lawyer,
particularly one that has federal law as a background. I'd even accept
Judge Roberts' suggestions, and since he lives right over in Bethesda, maybe
I'll give him a call. But this is the best I can determine from what I've
run up against.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/

"Jona Vark" wrote in message
. ..
Now that Texas is requestiong help from other states ...

If Roger's offer is sincere I would have to agree with him at this point.
People are going to Minn, Mass, etc..

Roger.. if your politics aren't in the right place your heart surely is.

I gave to the Red Cross.. I mentioned guests to my wife.. She reminded me
we
have only 1 bathroom and most of the rest of the house under some sort of
rennovation.. But I am certainly not adverse to making the same offer if I
can figure out how to do it.

OK, so it COULD mean a couple of other things. But I've never heard CBC
used in terms of the Black Caucus, and you know that I black members of my
family, including my wife. However, I've never heard of CBC meaning the
Black Caucus and I've been a part of this family for 18 years now.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
Roger W. Norman wrote:

CBC means Complete Blood Count to anyone with a normal education.

Sheesh, and I thought it was Canadian radio! I like that big band station
on 560 KC... comes in very well after dark here.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

"Roger W. Norman" wrote in
message

No, Arny. That's not the way emergency management works.

Agreed. I'm not talking about emergency *management* but
instead emergency execution.

Those under an emegency shouldn't have to make the
decision to take their own first over others that might
be in as great or greater need, or vice versa.

Tell that to Graham. It's his issue. He said that it was
illogical to ask the New Orleans bus drivers to drive New
Orleans citizens out of town.

I probably should have pointed out that half of the NOPD
stayed at their posts, therefore it might have been
reasonable to expect half of the bus drivers to do their
jobs.

"Roger W. Norman" wrote in
message

I don't believe anyone can blame either the Mayor of New
Orleans or the Governor of Louisiana because they made
numerous calls for federal aid from Tuesday on.

Nice job Roger of changing the subject away from the fact
that the Mayor of New Orleans had a goodly number of
powerful resources at his disposal that could have made a
difference and saved lives.

The Mayor of New Orleans knew well before the storm that
about 100,000 people lacked private transportation to
evacuate. He had at least 400 regional busses, and probably
an equal number of school busses at his disposal.

At 60 people per bus, that's 48,000 seats going out of town
that ended up rotting in the flood waters.

"Roger W. Norman" wrote in
message
I did. In fact, we should have 400 evacuees coming into
the DC Armory tomorrow or Tuesday, but they only want
money or food. I can do either, but that wasn't my
point, as has been exhibited by the hijacking of my
original post. The idea was that we, as Americans,
should be able to offer MORE, like a real place to live,
a real place to try to gain work to rebuild lives, a real
place to take a shower or put a child to bed, or give
them something they can hold on to.


Texas has absorbed about 250,000 evacuees. Even Detroit has
taken on 3,000 evacuees.