Im going in on Friday to listen to both of these speakers, but I'm unsure
they are throwing me a sales pitch or not. I was originally going to listen
to the 704 and 805 because they are similar in price. But everyone said the
805s were better and the woofers in the 704 are not that great. So I asked
the store on the 805s and they said that speaker is so quick that you'd need
a sub in the $3000 to $4000 Canadian price range to keep up with it. I'm
taking that with a grain of salt. They suggested the 804 instead as it would
be cheaper then the 805, stands, and a sub to match. So now its down to the
805 or 804. Any comments on this? I'm unsure the size of the room these will
be in, but the floor standers are more what I'm looking for. It just means
saving longer to get the 804s. Opinions?

--
NewsGuy.Com 30Gb $9.95 Carry Forward and On Demand Bandwidth

"Braxus" wrote in message
...
Im going in on Friday to listen to both of these speakers, but I'm unsure
they are throwing me a sales pitch or not. I was originally going to
listen
to the 704 and 805 because they are similar in price. But everyone said
the
805s were better and the woofers in the 704 are not that great. So I asked
the store on the 805s and they said that speaker is so quick that you'd
need
a sub in the $3000 to $4000 Canadian price range to keep up with it. I'm
taking that with a grain of salt.

Does it make sense to you that B&W would put aninadequate woofer in one of
their speakers?
There is no such thing as faster or slower woofers, this is a myth that
either the slaesmen aren't aware of or don't care aobut.

There is no 'need' for any subwoofer to cost $3-4K for anything other than
cosmetic reasons, that price will absolutely NOT buy you better bass. Many
of the best subs available are DIY and cost a fraction of that for
conventional box woofers. If you go for Infinite Baffle installations, then
you can get into some serious bucks.

My recomendation is to listen to what you wnat and make a judgement,
particularly if it is possible to listen in your own room. If you decide
you want to add a sub chenck out the offerings from PSB, Hsu, SVC, and
Adire, not neccessarily in that order. My own sub is DIY using an Adire 12"
in a ported box that gets in room reponse in the low 20 Hz range. It is
possible to use the same woofer in a bigger box and achieve 18Hz performance
with room loading, at least according to Adire. I believe them as they are
the only people I know of who provide DUMAX measurements of their drivers,
about the best most accurate measurements one can get. They also provide
finished subs as well as DIY. Any of the brands I listed will have subs
that can get you very good very low bass with out setting you back 3 grand.
Also if you don't have any wife approval problems the cylinder subs either
built or DIY are IMO the best bet, as they are light and do not need the
kind of bulk and bracing that regular boxes do.

They suggested the 804 instead as it would
be cheaper then the 805, stands, and a sub to match. So now its down to
the
805 or 804. Any comments on this? I'm unsure the size of the room these
will
be in, but the floor standers are more what I'm looking for. It just means
saving longer to get the 804s. Opinions?

On the subject of stands, there is no reason other than cosmetics for them
to be particularly expensive either as they only provide one function,
rasing the speaker to ear level.

Hope this helps.

Good Luck
--
NewsGuy.Com 30Gb $9.95 Carry Forward and On Demand Bandwidth

how about going with the speaker that sounds best to you. what more is there
to consider?

sherm

"Braxus" wrote in message
...
Im going in on Friday to listen to both of these speakers, but I'm unsure
they are throwing me a sales pitch or not. I was originally going to
listen
to the 704 and 805 because they are similar in price. But everyone said
the
805s were better and the woofers in the 704 are not that great. So I asked
the store on the 805s and they said that speaker is so quick that you'd
need
a sub in the $3000 to $4000 Canadian price range to keep up with it. I'm
taking that with a grain of salt. They suggested the 804 instead as it
would
be cheaper then the 805, stands, and a sub to match. So now its down to
the
805 or 804. Any comments on this? I'm unsure the size of the room these
will
be in, but the floor standers are more what I'm looking for. It just means
saving longer to get the 804s. Opinions?

--
NewsGuy.Com 30Gb $9.95 Carry Forward and On Demand Bandwidth

--
NewsGuy.Com 30Gb $9.95 Carry Forward and On Demand Bandwidth

wrote in message ...
"Braxus" wrote in message
...
Im going in on Friday to listen to both of these speakers, but I'm unsure
they are throwing me a sales pitch or not. I was originally going to
listen
to the 704 and 805 because they are similar in price. But everyone said
the
805s were better and the woofers in the 704 are not that great. So I
asked
the store on the 805s and they said that speaker is so quick that you'd
need
a sub in the $3000 to $4000 Canadian price range to keep up with it. I'm
taking that with a grain of salt.

Does it make sense to you that B&W would put aninadequate woofer in one of
their speakers?
There is no such thing as faster or slower woofers, this is a myth that
either the slaesmen aren't aware of or don't care aobut.

There is no 'need' for any subwoofer to cost $3-4K for anything other than
cosmetic reasons, that price will absolutely NOT buy you better bass.
Many
of the best subs available are DIY and cost a fraction of that for
conventional box woofers. If you go for Infinite Baffle installations,
then
you can get into some serious bucks.

My recomendation is to listen to what you wnat and make a judgement,
particularly if it is possible to listen in your own room. If you decide
you want to add a sub chenck out the offerings from PSB, Hsu, SVC, and
Adire, not neccessarily in that order. My own sub is DIY using an Adire
12"
in a ported box that gets in room reponse in the low 20 Hz range. It is
possible to use the same woofer in a bigger box and achieve 18Hz
performance
with room loading, at least according to Adire. I believe them as they
are
the only people I know of who provide DUMAX measurements of their drivers,
about the best most accurate measurements one can get. They also provide
finished subs as well as DIY. Any of the brands I listed will have subs
that can get you very good very low bass with out setting you back 3
grand.
Also if you don't have any wife approval problems the cylinder subs either
built or DIY are IMO the best bet, as they are light and do not need the
kind of bulk and bracing that regular boxes do.


I'd add to this list the Outlaw LMF-1 or LMF-2. They were designed in
partnership with Hsu, and have excellent reputations. They cost only $600
(LMF-1) and $400 (LMF-2). They can be bought direct online from Outlaw
Audio and come with a 30 day money back guarantee.



--

"Harry Lavo" wrote in message
...
wrote in message
...
"Braxus" wrote in message
...
Im going in on Friday to listen to both of these speakers, but I'm
unsure
they are throwing me a sales pitch or not. I was originally going to
listen
to the 704 and 805 because they are similar in price. But everyone said
the
805s were better and the woofers in the 704 are not that great. So I
asked
the store on the 805s and they said that speaker is so quick that you'd
need
a sub in the $3000 to $4000 Canadian price range to keep up with it. I'm
taking that with a grain of salt.

Does it make sense to you that B&W would put aninadequate woofer in one
of
their speakers?
There is no such thing as faster or slower woofers, this is a myth that
either the slaesmen aren't aware of or don't care aobut.

There is no 'need' for any subwoofer to cost $3-4K for anything other
than
cosmetic reasons, that price will absolutely NOT buy you better bass.
Many
of the best subs available are DIY and cost a fraction of that for
conventional box woofers. If you go for Infinite Baffle installations,
then
you can get into some serious bucks.

My recomendation is to listen to what you wnat and make a judgement,
particularly if it is possible to listen in your own room. If you decide
you want to add a sub chenck out the offerings from PSB, Hsu, SVC, and
Adire, not neccessarily in that order. My own sub is DIY using an Adire
12"
in a ported box that gets in room reponse in the low 20 Hz range. It is
possible to use the same woofer in a bigger box and achieve 18Hz
performance
with room loading, at least according to Adire. I believe them as they
are
the only people I know of who provide DUMAX measurements of their
drivers,
about the best most accurate measurements one can get. They also provide
finished subs as well as DIY. Any of the brands I listed will have subs
that can get you very good very low bass with out setting you back 3
grand.
Also if you don't have any wife approval problems the cylinder subs
either
built or DIY are IMO the best bet, as they are light and do not need the
kind of bulk and bracing that regular boxes do.


I'd add to this list the Outlaw LMF-1 or LMF-2. They were designed in
partnership with Hsu, and have excellent reputations. They cost only $600
(LMF-1) and $400 (LMF-2). They can be bought direct online from Outlaw
Audio and come with a 30 day money back guarantee.



Consider this:

1 Adire Shiva 12" woofer@ $149.00
1 Sonotube cut to length for above woofer about $20.00
2 end caps 1" MDF less than $10.00
2 End caps 1" plywood glued to the MDF for better look, less than $20.00
assorted hardware screws, glue, clamps, saws and or routers if you don't
have them on hand could be a bit pricey, but you can always get someone to
cut the holes for you.
personal labor, whatever you feel your time is worth.
power amp to drive sub- anywhere from 179.00 to the sky's the limit but I
would probably use either the Behringer A500 bridged to mono, @ $179.00 or
the Samson SX1200 bridged to mono for 1200 watts @ 4 ohms for $299.00.

Still much lower than 3 - 4 K and deep strong bass into the upper teens if
you use the right internal volume for the sub.

Subs are not Rocket science and there are many places on the web to find
step by step instructions on how to build them. Virtually all of them are
at least as good as anything you can buy ready made and many more are
better.

I've disabused myself of building any more main speakers but I will never
buy another ready made sub again, as there is absolutely no upside in either
performance or power.



--

"Braxus" wrote in message
...
I ended up chosing the 804 just because I liked its midrange better. It
also
had a lower reach which was expected. It still didn't have the bottom end
you hear with subs, but I don't think many speakers can go there.


And even if they could, they might have a problem with imaging. Low Bass
and good imaging don't seem to go together. Placement of speakers for good
imaging is not the same place as for good deep bass response.



--