[Steve[_18_]]

I know you are probably exhaused about talking about this but I have a few
more questions. I have been looking at a stereo pair of C414B XLS, but
reading and your recommendations tell me they are not so good (or as good as
my NT5 pair) for drum overheads, I have been doing some more reading and
finding that unless I am willing to go to a Schoeps or Neumann SDCs for drum
overheads I am wasting my time dreaming that either 414 (xls or XLII) would
do anything to improve my overheads. I looked at a buying pair of C451s to
replace my NT5s in addition to a single C414B but they don't seem to be much
of an improvement on my NT5s either (well, maybe a little, but not for
double what i paid for my NT5s). So ruling my drum overheads out I am
always on the lookout for mics that are the biggest bang for my buck and by
that I mean decent on several applications. So I am looking at a pair to do
some field recording, vocals and strings. More reading tells me the XLII
may be better at the three I have listed than the XLS's for these purposes.
I have an acoustic project coming up and it seems to do the guitar I could
use either the NT5s, XLII's or a combo of both, then the XLII for vocals.
Any further suggestions/advice would be apprecated! Keep in mind I run a
small project studio on a smaller budget. :-)

Cheers;
Steve

[Scott Dorsey]

Steve wrote:
I know you are probably exhaused about talking about this but I have a few
more questions. I have been looking at a stereo pair of C414B XLS, but
reading and your recommendations tell me they are not so good (or as good as
my NT5 pair) for drum overheads, I have been doing some more reading and
finding that unless I am willing to go to a Schoeps or Neumann SDCs for drum
overheads I am wasting my time dreaming that either 414 (xls or XLII) would
do anything to improve my overheads.

Well, they sound like 414s on overheads. They aren't natural at all, but
it's a sound that some people like. Other people don't.

I looked at a buying pair of C451s to
replace my NT5s in addition to a single C414B but they don't seem to be much
of an improvement on my NT5s either (well, maybe a little, but not for
double what i paid for my NT5s).

I'd consider them a step up from the NT-5. But you should definitely listen
to them and decide for yourself.

So ruling my drum overheads out I am
always on the lookout for mics that are the biggest bang for my buck and by
that I mean decent on several applications. So I am looking at a pair to do
some field recording, vocals and strings. More reading tells me the XLII
may be better at the three I have listed than the XLS's for these purposes.
I have an acoustic project coming up and it seems to do the guitar I could
use either the NT5s, XLII's or a combo of both, then the XLII for vocals.
Any further suggestions/advice would be apprecated! Keep in mind I run a
small project studio on a smaller budget. :-)

AKG C535 isn't a bad thing either on a budget. And you might want to
audition the Oktavas and see. Some people like ribbons on overheads,
especially for jazz. Some people like U87s, which are anything but natural
but can give a very big kit sound. By all means you should audition these
and buy the one that sounds right in your room with your kit.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Steve[_3_]]

Hey Scott, thanks for the reply, see comments below....

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
Steve wrote:
I know you are probably exhaused about talking about this but I have a few
more questions. I have been looking at a stereo pair of C414B XLS, but
reading and your recommendations tell me they are not so good (or as good
as
my NT5 pair) for drum overheads, I have been doing some more reading and
finding that unless I am willing to go to a Schoeps or Neumann SDCs for
drum
overheads I am wasting my time dreaming that either 414 (xls or XLII)
would
do anything to improve my overheads.

Well, they sound like 414s on overheads. They aren't natural at all, but
it's a sound that some people like. Other people don't.

I guess I am just striving too hard to think that I can buy a mic to do all
of this (OHs, Vocals, strings and field recording) a pair 414s seemed to
meet some of this criteria (XLS = Drum OHs, Field and Strings, XLII =
Vocals, Field, Strings). I am getting into more of a delicate sounding
project (acoustic guitar with vocals) and I am thinking I need to upgrade my
LDC's for this. I normally record rock tracks/demos and use an RE-20 on
vocals (male), guitar cab. Then on my kit I use the NT5s as the overheads
and get good results (as far as my clients are concerned). I guess I am
looking for another RE-20 which does well with a number of insturments and
situations and I am looking to the 414 for that since it's the best LDC I
can afford.

The big question is if I do rule out using the XLS's as overheads should I
get the XLIIs because of their lean towards being a vocal/solo
insturment/far field recording mic? Am I reading too much into what AKG
says about what their uses are? After all the RE-20 is a "Broadcast"
microphone on EV's website which would lead people to believe it belongs in
a radio station.

I read articles saying that the XLS is more of the insturment type mic, and
the XLII is tailored towards vocals, but I also read people saying because
of the XLS's flatness makes it more versatile of a mic to use on anything
(including vocals). What makes the XLII different? (electronics? capsule?)
Are the XLS's crappy at recording in the field? Are the XLII impossible to
use as drum overheads?

I am happy with my NT5s as overheads and even as field recording mics but it
would be nice to have some multi pattern LDCs to experiment with and at the
same time make use of them. I purchased the omni caps for them a while ago
but haven't experimented with them yet. The 451s are fixed cardiod which is
kind of a downer from AKG (and make them a little less desired by me at that
price point).


I looked at a buying pair of C451s to
replace my NT5s in addition to a single C414B but they don't seem to be
much
of an improvement on my NT5s either (well, maybe a little, but not for
double what i paid for my NT5s).

I'd consider them a step up from the NT-5. But you should definitely
listen
to them and decide for yourself.

I think I will hold off on new SDCs at the moment.


So ruling my drum overheads out I am
always on the lookout for mics that are the biggest bang for my buck and
by
that I mean decent on several applications. So I am looking at a pair to
do
some field recording, vocals and strings. More reading tells me the XLII
may be better at the three I have listed than the XLS's for these
purposes.
I have an acoustic project coming up and it seems to do the guitar I could
use either the NT5s, XLII's or a combo of both, then the XLII for vocals.
Any further suggestions/advice would be apprecated! Keep in mind I run a
small project studio on a smaller budget. :-)

AKG C535 isn't a bad thing either on a budget.

I have an older C535EB on my HiHats right now. Very nice.

And you might want to
audition the Oktavas and see. Some people like ribbons on overheads,
especially for jazz. Some people like U87s, which are anything but
natural
but can give a very big kit sound. By all means you should audition these
and buy the one that sounds right in your room with your kit.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Mike Rivers]

Steve wrote:

I have been looking at a stereo pair of C414B XLS, but
reading and your recommendations tell me they are not so good (or as good as
my NT5 pair) for drum overheads, I have been doing some more reading and
finding that unless I am willing to go to a Schoeps or Neumann SDCs for drum
overheads I am wasting my time dreaming that either 414 (xls or XLII) would
do anything to improve my overheads.

Steve, isn't it about time you backed off on the reading and started
doing some listening? Only YOU will know whether they'll improve your
sound, or change it in a way you want. Is there something wrong with
what you have now? Can you put your finger on it and describe what
you're looking for that you aren't getting?

I looked at a buying pair of C451s to
replace my NT5s in addition to a single C414B but they don't seem to be much
of an improvement on my NT5s either

I agree, particularly if you're looking at the new C451B. It's different
from the NT5 for sure, but not necessarily better in all applications,
or even better as a drum overhead, though plenty of people use them.
I've used C451s (the original) as drum overheads, and also as tom mics,
but that's because I have them.

So I am looking at a pair to do
some field recording, vocals and strings. More reading tells me the XLII
may be better at the three I have listed than the XLS's for these purposes.

Could be. Hard to keep track.

Any further suggestions/advice would be apprecated! Keep in mind I run a
small project studio on a smaller budget. :-)

Use what you have. It's not bad, and when you start making money with
your recordings, you'll have a bigger budget.


--
If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach
me he
double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo -- I'm really Mike Rivers
)

[Steve[_18_]]

Mike;

You are right. I guess I am one of those people who easily gets hung up
obsessing over "the numbers".

I will see if my local dealer will let me rent a couple before I decide.

Thanks;
Steve


"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:_NaPj.1861$nb4.233@trnddc08...
Steve wrote:

I have been looking at a stereo pair of C414B XLS, but reading and your
recommendations tell me they are not so good (or as good as my NT5 pair)
for drum overheads, I have been doing some more reading and finding that
unless I am willing to go to a Schoeps or Neumann SDCs for drum overheads
I am wasting my time dreaming that either 414 (xls or XLII) would do
anything to improve my overheads.

Steve, isn't it about time you backed off on the reading and started doing
some listening? Only YOU will know whether they'll improve your sound, or
change it in a way you want. Is there something wrong with what you have
now? Can you put your finger on it and describe what you're looking for
that you aren't getting?

I looked at a buying pair of C451s to replace my NT5s in addition to a
single C414B but they don't seem to be much of an improvement on my NT5s
either

I agree, particularly if you're looking at the new C451B. It's different
from the NT5 for sure, but not necessarily better in all applications, or
even better as a drum overhead, though plenty of people use them. I've
used C451s (the original) as drum overheads, and also as tom mics, but
that's because I have them.

So I am looking at a pair to do some field recording, vocals and strings.
More reading tells me the XLII may be better at the three I have listed
than the XLS's for these purposes.

Could be. Hard to keep track.

Any further suggestions/advice would be apprecated! Keep in mind I run a
small project studio on a smaller budget. :-)

Use what you have. It's not bad, and when you start making money with your
recordings, you'll have a bigger budget.


--
If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach me
he
double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo -- I'm really Mike Rivers
)

[Scott Dorsey]

In article , Steve wrote:

I guess I am just striving too hard to think that I can buy a mic to do all
of this (OHs, Vocals, strings and field recording) a pair 414s seemed to
meet some of this criteria (XLS = Drum OHs, Field and Strings, XLII =
Vocals, Field, Strings). I am getting into more of a delicate sounding
project (acoustic guitar with vocals) and I am thinking I need to upgrade my
LDC's for this. I normally record rock tracks/demos and use an RE-20 on
vocals (male), guitar cab. Then on my kit I use the NT5s as the overheads
and get good results (as far as my clients are concerned). I guess I am
looking for another RE-20 which does well with a number of insturments and
situations and I am looking to the 414 for that since it's the best LDC I
can afford.

Why a large diaphragm mike at all? Maybe you'll be happier with a smaller
mike that is more accurate. Or maybe not. The 414B/ULS is a bit brittle on
top for my tastes, but it's useful for a lot of things.

The big question is if I do rule out using the XLS's as overheads should I
get the XLIIs because of their lean towards being a vocal/solo
insturment/far field recording mic? Am I reading too much into what AKG
says about what their uses are? After all the RE-20 is a "Broadcast"
microphone on EV's website which would lead people to believe it belongs in
a radio station.

Damned if I know. Get both and listen to them, and decide for yourself.
Personally, if the B/ULS is brittle, I don't want anything with even more
top end. Maybe you do, you'll have to listen.

I read articles saying that the XLS is more of the insturment type mic, and
the XLII is tailored towards vocals, but I also read people saying because
of the XLS's flatness makes it more versatile of a mic to use on anything
(including vocals). What makes the XLII different? (electronics? capsule?)
Are the XLS's crappy at recording in the field? Are the XLII impossible to
use as drum overheads?

Damned if I know. I'll pretty much always pick a flatter microphone over
one with a peakier top end, though.

I am happy with my NT5s as overheads and even as field recording mics but it
would be nice to have some multi pattern LDCs to experiment with and at the
same time make use of them. I purchased the omni caps for them a while ago
but haven't experimented with them yet. The 451s are fixed cardiod which is
kind of a downer from AKG (and make them a little less desired by me at that
price point).

Sure, but the 451 sounds pretty good.

So ruling my drum overheads out I am
always on the lookout for mics that are the biggest bang for my buck and
by
that I mean decent on several applications. So I am looking at a pair to
do
some field recording, vocals and strings. More reading tells me the XLII
may be better at the three I have listed than the XLS's for these
purposes.
I have an acoustic project coming up and it seems to do the guitar I could
use either the NT5s, XLII's or a combo of both, then the XLII for vocals.
Any further suggestions/advice would be apprecated! Keep in mind I run a
small project studio on a smaller budget. :-)

AKG C535 isn't a bad thing either on a budget.

I have an older C535EB on my HiHats right now. Very nice.

Why are you spotting the high hats if you have good overheads?

And you might want to
audition the Oktavas and see. Some people like ribbons on overheads,
especially for jazz. Some people like U87s, which are anything but
natural
but can give a very big kit sound. By all means you should audition these
and buy the one that sounds right in your room with your kit.

Really, you need to audition some mikes.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Mike Rivers]

Steve wrote:

I guess I am just striving too hard to think that I can buy a mic to do all
of this (OHs, Vocals, strings and field recording)

You could buy an EV RE-20 that would do the job nicely.

Am I reading too much into what AKG
says about what their uses are? After all the RE-20 is a "Broadcast"
microphone on EV's website which would lead people to believe it belongs in
a radio station.

And what's wrong with having a good microphone in a radio station? The
U87 was one of the most popular "broadcast" microphones until they just
got too expensive because of the crummy exchange rate of the dollar vs.
the euro. The "uses" for a microphone are mostly the product of
marketing departments who would rather sell you two mics than one, and
the people who believe them.

I read articles saying that the XLS is more of the insturment type mic, and
the XLII is tailored towards vocals, but I also read people saying because
of the XLS's flatness makes it more versatile of a mic to use on anything
(including vocals).

This suggests that it's possible to choose the optimum mic for a
particular application if you have enough mics to choose from. The
differences won't make or break your record, though. Nobody buys a CD
because of the mics used on the drums.

Are the XLS's crappy at recording in the field? Are the XLII impossible to
use as drum overheads?

No, of course not. What do you think? That you'll put them over your
drums and it'll sound like tin cans? The thing that makes for bad
overhead drum miking is a bad drummer or bad drums, not a bad mic. It's
one of the least critical applications for a mic. You could put an SM57
up there with a good drummer and it'd sound fine. I've done it.

I am happy with my NT5s as overheads and even as field recording mics but it
would be nice to have some multi pattern LDCs to experiment with

In that case, get yourself a Studio Projects C3. It doesn't sound "like"
anything else but it's not bad and it doesn't cost a lot of money.
You'll probably find it quite useful.



--
If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach
me he
double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo -- I'm really Mike Rivers
)

[david correia]

In article ,
"Steve" wrote:

I know you are probably exhaused about talking about this but I have a few
more questions. I have been looking at a stereo pair of C414B XLS, but
reading and your recommendations tell me they are not so good (or as good as
my NT5 pair) for drum overheads, I have been doing some more reading and
finding that unless I am willing to go to a Schoeps or Neumann SDCs for drum
overheads I am wasting my time dreaming that either 414 (xls or XLII) would
do anything to improve my overheads. I looked at a buying pair of C451s to
replace my NT5s in addition to a single C414B but they don't seem to be much
of an improvement on my NT5s either (well, maybe a little, but not for
double what i paid for my NT5s). So ruling my drum overheads out I am
always on the lookout for mics that are the biggest bang for my buck and by
that I mean decent on several applications. So I am looking at a pair to do
some field recording, vocals and strings. More reading tells me the XLII
may be better at the three I have listed than the XLS's for these purposes.
I have an acoustic project coming up and it seems to do the guitar I could
use either the NT5s, XLII's or a combo of both, then the XLII for vocals.
Any further suggestions/advice would be apprecated! Keep in mind I run a
small project studio on a smaller budget. :-)




If you have 2 channels of nice mic pre, a pair of 414b-uls can sound
absolutely great as a stereo pair over a drum kit. (The 80's version of
U87's is my first pick for this 'tho.)

Sorry, I don't know how the currently shipping 414 sounds.

I have owned original 451's for ages, but never liked them much. I used
them as drum overheads in the early 80's for a couple years but never
got what I was looking for. Def forget the 451 version they sell today.

I wouldn't use 414's on strings in the studio. But if you're doing some
live recording, why not. They do sound great on acoustic guitar, and on
some voices, including female vocals. Congas and toms too. Great for
male voice over work.

But again, you gotta plug that mic into a nice mic pre to really
appreciate it. Sorry to haveta tell ya ;




David Correia
www.Celebrationsound.com

[Paul Stamler]

"Steve" wrote in message
news
So I am looking at a pair to do
some field recording, vocals and strings. More reading tells me the XLII
may be better at the three I have listed than the XLS's for these
purposes.
I have an acoustic project coming up and it seems to do the guitar I could
use either the NT5s, XLII's or a combo of both, then the XLII for vocals.
Any further suggestions/advice would be apprecated! Keep in mind I run a
small project studio on a smaller budget. :-)

If you want a microphone for general-purpose use, I'd stay away from the
XLII; it's got a brightness peak engineered into it which makes it good for
a few purposes, not good for many more. The XLS is more neutral, making it
useful for more applications (you can always put a peak into the response
with EQ, but it's harder to take out the XLII's peak).

Peace,
Paul

[Federico]

Just to know... What preamps are you using?
F.

[Steve[_18_]]

Hi;
FMR RNP, Sympetrix 302, Focusrite Twintrak Pro

Cheers;
Steve

"Federico" wrote in message
...
Just to know... What preamps are you using?
F.

[Federico]

If I'm not wrong these are all transformerless circuits...
If you want to try a 414 try one with a transformer inside. ULS?
Usually I don't like a TLII into a preamp without transformers... there is
too much informations in the sound.
F.

[Andy_P]

Steve wrote in message
...

I know you are probably exhaused about talking about this but I have a few
more questions. I have been looking at a stereo pair of C414B XLS, but
reading and your recommendations tell me they are not so good (or as good
as
my NT5 pair) for drum overheads, I have been doing some more reading and
finding that unless I am willing to go to a Schoeps or Neumann SDCs for
drum
overheads I am wasting my time dreaming that either 414 (xls or XLII)
would
do anything to improve my overheads. I looked at a buying pair of C451s
to
replace my NT5s in addition to a single C414B but they don't seem to be
much
of an improvement on my NT5s either (well, maybe a little, but not for
double what i paid for my NT5s). So ruling my drum overheads out I am
always on the lookout for mics that are the biggest bang for my buck and
by
that I mean decent on several applications. So I am looking at a pair to
do
some field recording, vocals and strings. More reading tells me the XLII
may be better at the three I have listed than the XLS's for these
purposes.
I have an acoustic project coming up and it seems to do the guitar I could
use either the NT5s, XLII's or a combo of both, then the XLII for vocals.
Any further suggestions/advice would be apprecated! Keep in mind I run a
small project studio on a smaller budget. :-)

Cheers;
Steve


Hi Steve,

I recently bought a used pair of AKG C480's with CK61 capsules and I'm very
happy with them. Unfortunately, I can't compare them to Schoeps or KM84's
but the C480 do sound wonderful to my ears.

Andy

[Steve[_18_]]

Bob;

I have heard about them and for 50 bucks they are worth a try.

PS - I have been reading here long enough to know when it's you. No need
for apologies.

Cheers;
Steve
"Soundhaspriority" wrote in message
...

"Steve" wrote in message
news
I know you are probably exhaused about talking about this but I have a few
more questions. I have been looking at a stereo pair of C414B XLS, but
reading and your recommendations tell me they are not so good (or as good
as my NT5 pair) for drum overheads, I have been doing some more reading
and finding that unless I am willing to go to a Schoeps or Neumann SDCs
for drum overheads I am wasting my tim

[snip]

Steve,
Are you willing to gamble fifty bucks on a little magic? Then try one
or two of these:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...asurement.html

A few people, myself included, have found they work miracles as drum
overheads. But if they don't work for you, you're only out fifty bucks.

Regards,
Bob Morein
(310) 237-6511

P.S. Sorry about Brian L. McCarty pooping on your thread.

[Steve[_3_]]

"Paul Stamler" wrote in message
...
"Steve" wrote in message
news
So I am looking at a pair to do
some field recording, vocals and strings. More reading tells me the XLII
may be better at the three I have listed than the XLS's for these
purposes.
I have an acoustic project coming up and it seems to do the guitar I
could
use either the NT5s, XLII's or a combo of both, then the XLII for vocals.
Any further suggestions/advice would be apprecated! Keep in mind I run a
small project studio on a smaller budget. :-)

If you want a microphone for general-purpose use, I'd stay away from the
XLII; it's got a brightness peak engineered into it which makes it good
for
a few purposes, not good for many more. The XLS is more neutral, making it
useful for more applications (you can always put a peak into the response
with EQ, but it's harder to take out the XLII's peak).

Peace,
Paul



Paul;

Excellent advice. Thanks. Some places I read that these mics are identical
except for the peak. No one seems to know how they are different. If it's
electronics, one article said why wouldn't thy just have released a version
to switch on the presence peak? Who knows.

Thanks;
Steve

[Geoff]

Steve wrote:
Excellent advice. Thanks. Some places I read that these mics are
identical except for the peak. No one seems to know how they are
different. If it's electronics, one article said why wouldn't thy
just have released a version to switch on the presence peak? Who
knows.

Didn't you know ? A new version of anything is never as good as the old one
!

geoff

[Geoff]

geoff wrote:
Steve wrote:
Excellent advice. Thanks. Some places I read that these mics are
identical except for the peak. No one seems to know how they are
different. If it's electronics, one article said why wouldn't thy
just have released a version to switch on the presence peak? Who
knows.

Didn't you know ? A new version of anything is never as good as the
old one !


.... and the previous version (which is now near unobtainable) is even better
still !

geoff

[Ty Ford]

On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 21:29:20 -0400, Steve wrote
(in article ):
Paul;

Excellent advice. Thanks. Some places I read that these mics are identical
except for the peak. No one seems to know how they are different. If it's
electronics, one article said why wouldn't thy just have released a version
to switch on the presence peak? Who knows.

Thanks;
Steve

More difficult than you might think and the peak (or HF response) is useful
if you are zone micing or distant micing something and want some more HF that
otherwise will get lost in the air.

I reviewed the two new ones when they came out. That review is in the Mic
review folder in my online archive.

He http://idisk.mac.com/tyreeford-Public?view=web

Regards,

Ty Ford



--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com
Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RZJ9MptZmU

[Daniel Fuchs[_3_]]

Ty,

He http://idisk.mac.com/tyreeford-Public?view=web

Not work... :-/

Both IE and Firefox show "loading" for a second when I click on a pdf,
then nothing.

Opera gets a page about an "unsupported browser". Gee, Apple, WTF...?


Daniel

[Daniel Fuchs[_3_]]

Scott Dorsey wrote:

Sure, but the 451 sounds pretty good.

Surprising. I sold my CK 1 capsules because I found them too bright
(found some CK 3 hypers instead, which are nice), but I don't really
consider the 414 B-ULS overly bright.

And you're not confusing B-ULS and B-XLS, are you, Scott?


Daniel

[Scott Dorsey]

In article ,
Daniel Fuchs wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote:

Sure, but the 451 sounds pretty good.

Surprising. I sold my CK 1 capsules because I found them too bright
(found some CK 3 hypers instead, which are nice), but I don't really
consider the 414 B-ULS overly bright.

The CK-1 is bright. Good, but bright.

And you're not confusing B-ULS and B-XLS, are you, Scott?

No, I have never used the B/XLS at all. Just the /EB, the B/ULS, and the
/TL (no relation to the /TLII). And it's been a few years.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Geoff]

Scott Dorsey wrote:
In article ,
Daniel Fuchs wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote:

Sure, but the 451 sounds pretty good.

Surprising. I sold my CK 1 capsules because I found them too bright
(found some CK 3 hypers instead, which are nice), but I don't really
consider the 414 B-ULS overly bright.

The CK-1 is bright. Good, but bright.

And you're not confusing B-ULS and B-XLS, are you, Scott?

No, I have never used the B/XLS at all. Just the /EB, the B/ULS, and
the /TL (no relation to the /TLII). And it's been a few years.
--scott

Maybe give one a try, so we can benefit from your opinion on it. It's only
been aropund how many years now...

I get kinda sick of everybody automatically crapping all over anything 'new
and improved'. I have both B-ULS and B-XLS and don't notice huge
differences, and those dfferences couldn't necessarily be said to be better
or worse - just different.

You have been known to draw my attention to things I hadn't noticed !

geoff

[Richard Crowley]

"Daniel Fuchs" wrote ...
He http://idisk.mac.com/tyreeford-Public?view=web

Not work... :-/

Both IE and Firefox show "loading" for a second when I click on a pdf,
then nothing.

Opera gets a page about an "unsupported browser". Gee, Apple, WTF...?

The world revolves around Cupertino. There are no
legitimate computers except Apple. That seems to be
their philosophy. Pretty spunky (or some might use the
word "stupid") for a platofrm with 10% market-share.

While the list displays on my Internet Explorer, it doesn't
show the scroll bar, so you can't see or select anything
beyond "IPS".