[keith]

So... I lurked for a week or two, posted for a bit, and sat back to see
what happens... This is where all the old schoolers went -- away. this
sh*t is exhausting to look at. It was when I left, and it is now.

Face it we were ALL n00bies at one point - no, our umbilical chords were
NOT a set of RCA cables... There was a time in RAC when noobies were
welcomed - appreciated even. I've been watching pretty closely for
around three weeks now, and I've seen maybe three iPod questions. That
ain't sh*t... Besides, wouldn't it just be easier to point them in the
right direction via a link, than to spend two paragraphs ripping on them
- and each other?

Yes, people get sick of the same old questions week after week. People
get sick of each other. People disagree. And sometimes, just sometimes,
people get over themselves, and muster the maturity to move beyond this
kind of bullsh*t.

this is just sad. And, it's why RAC is down to only 5 or 6 regular
posters...


See ya

ex-RAC'er - KeithS

[Mister.Lull]

Yes, well...

As with anywhere I seem to go on the web these days, there is a certain
amount of ego-encrusted **** to wade through here before one reaches
the wisdom or advice one was seeking. I came here for the first time
about 2 years ago and what I've learned has been quite valuable to me.
In that time, though, I've seen a few people just get fed up and leave.
To those people, and to you, I say this:

It is unfortunate that you no longer have the patience to look past the
bull****, and help those of us who need assistance.

~Mister.Lull
keith wrote:
So... I lurked for a week or two, posted for a bit, and sat back to see
what happens... This is where all the old schoolers went -- away. this
sh*t is exhausting to look at. It was when I left, and it is now.

Face it we were ALL n00bies at one point - no, our umbilical chords were
NOT a set of RCA cables... There was a time in RAC when noobies were
welcomed - appreciated even. I've been watching pretty closely for
around three weeks now, and I've seen maybe three iPod questions. That
ain't sh*t... Besides, wouldn't it just be easier to point them in the
right direction via a link, than to spend two paragraphs ripping on them
- and each other?

Yes, people get sick of the same old questions week after week. People
get sick of each other. People disagree. And sometimes, just sometimes,
people get over themselves, and muster the maturity to move beyond this
kind of bullsh*t.

this is just sad. And, it's why RAC is down to only 5 or 6 regular
posters...


See ya

ex-RAC'er - KeithS

[MOSFET]

Keith, I agree. It is exhausting to look at, and it is saddening.

But the question I am always wrestling with is when someone is a jerk,
should you call them on it, or just let it go?

I believe there are people here like Troy (I'm not trying to pick on you,
Troy, honestly), who think it's best to just let assholes be assholes, don't
get involved, just be quite little sheep, keep your head down, and hope the
bullies will go away.

In their opinions, pointing out rude behavior only starts unnecessary
flame-wars that scare newbies away and, as you put it, are exhausting to
read.

So what do you do? Frankly, I don't have a good answer because both the
alternatives are unpleasant (just letting the jerks be jerks, or calling
them on it because you care about what goes on in RAC). Personally, I hate
bullies and rudeness so I tend to call people on it. Some regulars (like
Tony for instance) think this is a good approach, others would have me keep
my mouth shut in the interest of "harmony" and just HOPE these people go
away or change on their own. Again, neither option is pleasant. And I
don't want to come off sounding like I'm trying to be the RAC-police. Every
intelligent person knows rude or offensive behavior when they see it.

But I will say this, I have been on and off RAC for over 10 years now and I
have seen these kind of things come and go (as I'm sure you have). There
are periods of relative calm, and there are stormy periods. I would say
that before the last couple months, we have been a very peaceful group.
Perhaps it is unfortunate timing that you choose to come back right now.

I expect (as in the past) things will return to relative calm. I hope so
anyway.

MOSFET

[keith]

Yea, I guess my point was that I've seen too many people get so caught
up in flame wars that their posts become dominated by them - detracting
from anything positive or instructive he or she might have to say.

Like you, I've learned a lot from this NG and I also enjoy contributing.
I don't want to go away, and was certainly hasty in describing myself as
an ex-RAC'er. However, there must be some way we can all get along. NG's
are all about free speech, and you're right, I (we) should all be able
to look past the BS in the interest of the greater good.

That said, the FAQ is a pretty comprehensive guide to most of the
questions that come up here. I'd love to see more references to that
and other published material. Maybe that way we could reduce the he
said - she said stuff that often results in silly ****ing matches.

So, now that I've got this off my chest, I'm going to see what I can
help with now, lest I fall into that same trap of spending my time here
focusing on tangential subplots.

Thanks for listening,

KeithS


Mister.Lull wrote:
Yes, well...

As with anywhere I seem to go on the web these days, there is a certain
amount of ego-encrusted **** to wade through here before one reaches
the wisdom or advice one was seeking. I came here for the first time
about 2 years ago and what I've learned has been quite valuable to me.
In that time, though, I've seen a few people just get fed up and leave.
To those people, and to you, I say this:

It is unfortunate that you no longer have the patience to look past the
bull****, and help those of us who need assistance.

~Mister.Lull
keith wrote:

So... I lurked for a week or two, posted for a bit, and sat back to see
what happens... This is where all the old schoolers went -- away. this
sh*t is exhausting to look at. It was when I left, and it is now.

Face it we were ALL n00bies at one point - no, our umbilical chords were
NOT a set of RCA cables... There was a time in RAC when noobies were
welcomed - appreciated even. I've been watching pretty closely for
around three weeks now, and I've seen maybe three iPod questions. That
ain't sh*t... Besides, wouldn't it just be easier to point them in the
right direction via a link, than to spend two paragraphs ripping on them
- and each other?

Yes, people get sick of the same old questions week after week. People
get sick of each other. People disagree. And sometimes, just sometimes,
people get over themselves, and muster the maturity to move beyond this
kind of bullsh*t.

this is just sad. And, it's why RAC is down to only 5 or 6 regular
posters...


See ya

ex-RAC'er - KeithS

[KU40]

honestly, welcome to the internet. everywhere you go has problems like
this, but I will say carstereos.org is most likely the best site for
disallowing flame war BS. they have a pretty strict moderating crew.
might want to check it out.


--
KU40

[Chad Wahls]

I used to check this group daily, now once a week, honestly I just forget
about it sometimes. I started here in the early 90's, about the time some of
these people were born if they are just starting a system at the age of 16.
This was before the " dubyou dubyou dubyou dot" and news came from a program
on a UNIX server called TRN (where I was from). It used to be a great
newsgroup, much like many of the ones that have fallen down the big hill.
But it's not as bad as some.

There are car audio forums out there that are un-biased and mature, many
regular posters from here are now there. They are lightly moderated but
moderator presence is not really known, the moderator even joins in at times
in the learning and teaching and joking too.

Keeping this alive is as simple as losing the childish games such as "I
gotta get one more poke in", "My sense of humor is lacking", and "I forgot
to take my Ritalin today"

Electronic ASCII communications used to be a treat... an amazing gift from
technology that allowed conversation for literally free to other people with
like interests. Newsgroups provide a unique freedom of speech that is not
found on web based forums, and also makes it obvious that some people simply
cannot handle freedom of speech, which IMHO is VERY sad.

Usenet is dying a quick death, it is no longer on the front page of Google,
which was wonderful if you did not have a good news feed. They just killed
it. Can you blame them? It's now a literal cesspool at times of foul mouth
freaks, hand wavers, and me-tooers that happen to be one brain cell short of
a synapse. All because of 3 things....

1. Bigots that don't realize that there is water between continents and this
is a world-wide thing.

2. People that just love to irritate other people and do it well (probably
the brains of the group, honestly)

3. People that don't know when to shut the F- up and just drop the topic.

Ever seen the Chris Rock video of how not to get your ass kicked by a cop?
Follow it even lightly. I rest my case.

Chad



"MOSFET" wrote in message
m...
Keith, I agree. It is exhausting to look at, and it is saddening.

But the question I am always wrestling with is when someone is a jerk,
should you call them on it, or just let it go?

I believe there are people here like Troy (I'm not trying to pick on you,
Troy, honestly), who think it's best to just let assholes be assholes,
don't
get involved, just be quite little sheep, keep your head down, and hope
the
bullies will go away.

In their opinions, pointing out rude behavior only starts unnecessary
flame-wars that scare newbies away and, as you put it, are exhausting to
read.

So what do you do? Frankly, I don't have a good answer because both the
alternatives are unpleasant (just letting the jerks be jerks, or calling
them on it because you care about what goes on in RAC). Personally, I
hate
bullies and rudeness so I tend to call people on it. Some regulars (like
Tony for instance) think this is a good approach, others would have me
keep
my mouth shut in the interest of "harmony" and just HOPE these people go
away or change on their own. Again, neither option is pleasant. And I
don't want to come off sounding like I'm trying to be the RAC-police.
Every
intelligent person knows rude or offensive behavior when they see it.

But I will say this, I have been on and off RAC for over 10 years now and
I
have seen these kind of things come and go (as I'm sure you have). There
are periods of relative calm, and there are stormy periods. I would say
that before the last couple months, we have been a very peaceful group.
Perhaps it is unfortunate timing that you choose to come back right now.

I expect (as in the past) things will return to relative calm. I hope so
anyway.

MOSFET

[MOSFET]

Thank you, I WILL!! I have just about had it with RAC. Years ago this was
a fun place full of thoughtful, helpful, intelligent people who engaged in
polite, civil discourse regarding car audio. I don't know what the hell
it's become now, but "waste of time" certainly come to mind.

MOSFET

"KU40" wrote in message
...

honestly, welcome to the internet. everywhere you go has problems like
this, but I will say carstereos.org is most likely the best site for
disallowing flame war BS. they have a pretty strict moderating crew.
might want to check it out.


--
KU40

[Matt Ion]

Chad Wahls wrote:
I used to check this group daily, now once a week, honestly I just forget
about it sometimes. I started here in the early 90's, about the time some of
these people were born if they are just starting a system at the age of 16.
This was before the " dubyou dubyou dubyou dot" and news came from a program
on a UNIX server called TRN (where I was from).

Whoa, that's '1337! I had to get it through a FidoNet gateway

It used to be a great
newsgroup, much like many of the ones that have fallen down the big hill.
But it's not as bad as some.

I used to be pretty regular here, some 12-13 years ago... even managed to meet a
few of the others (anyone remember Judge Dredd?). Then for a long time I just
didn't bother with newsgroups at all. Dunno why really... I think for the most
part, it wasn't a matter of the "signal-to-noise" level, it was just a lack of
anything interesting. At one point I had to sell off my car system to pay the
bills, and for the longest time didn't have a system or the money to get back
into one, so the car-audio obsession just sorta faded for a while, and the
attendance of RAC along with it.

Quite honestly, I don't see that things are that different now than they were
then... on this group, or on any others. You get your n00bs, your lurkers, your
old-boys-club, your experts, your uber-experts, and of course, your
self-appointed 'net police. The n00b ratio may be up a little bit because of
Google Groups, but not much - in the early "dubyou dubyou dubyou dot" days,
there was DejaNews (which of course, later became Google Groups)... before that,
people could access them via BBSs that incorporated FidoNet-UUCP gateways...
there have always been relatively simple ways for the technically-less-savvy to
"enjoy" Usenet.

Keeping this alive is as simple as losing the childish games such as "I
gotta get one more poke in", "My sense of humor is lacking", and "I forgot
to take my Ritalin today"

Those have been around for just as long... there's no losing them,
unfortunately. It's the nature of the beast.

Electronic ASCII communications used to be a treat... an amazing gift from
technology that allowed conversation for literally free to other people with
like interests. Newsgroups provide a unique freedom of speech that is not
found on web based forums, and also makes it obvious that some people simply
cannot handle freedom of speech, which IMHO is VERY sad.

Amen, brother.

[Matt Ion]

MOSFET wrote:
Thank you, I WILL!! I have just about had it with RAC. Years ago this was
a fun place full of thoughtful, helpful, intelligent people who engaged in
polite, civil discourse regarding car audio. I don't know what the hell
it's become now, but "waste of time" certainly come to mind.

MOSFET

"KU40" wrote in message
...

honestly, welcome to the internet. everywhere you go has problems like
this, but I will say carstereos.org is most likely the best site for
disallowing flame war BS. they have a pretty strict moderating crew.
might want to check it out.

Well, I wasn't going to bother with yet another web-based forum, but hell, if
Nick's going there, I gotta go too!