I'm trying to record a small kit live with only three channels and a
little
torn between:
a. using two cheap (mxl) sdc overheads and a sennheiser e912 on a board
in
front of the kick towards the snare side
b. e912 inside the kick and the two mxl's lower just between the crash
and
snare (facing hat) and other side between the ride and tom.

setup a was pretty good because the e912 picks up a lot off the board
from
the snare but it's very tinny sounding with the drummer riding the
cymbals
all the time.
setup b had some phase and proximity issues with the hat, does anyone
use a
setup like this?

I would like to get the mics setup in the best possible way before i
start
to mess with EQ, but the band gives me about ten minutes to set up (no
joke)
and no sound test.
I suppose I could go with more mics and make a sub mix from the drums,
but
I'm limited to 8 channels total (vocal1, vocal2, guitar, bass, room,
kick,
ohr, ohl).

I'm considering trying out the Avenson STO-2's to get more of the kit
in on
the overheads and less proximity effect, but better make some money
first!
so far im doing all this for free. any thoughts?
-alan

"greggery peccary" wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm trying to record a small kit live with only three channels and a
little
torn between:
a. using two cheap (mxl) sdc overheads and a sennheiser e912 on a board
in
front of the kick towards the snare side
b. e912 inside the kick and the two mxl's lower just between the crash
and
snare (facing hat) and other side between the ride and tom.

setup a was pretty good because the e912 picks up a lot off the board
from
the snare but it's very tinny sounding with the drummer riding the
cymbals
all the time.
setup b had some phase and proximity issues with the hat, does anyone
use a
setup like this?

I would like to get the mics setup in the best possible way before i
start
to mess with EQ, but the band gives me about ten minutes to set up (no
joke)
and no sound test.
I suppose I could go with more mics and make a sub mix from the drums,
but
I'm limited to 8 channels total (vocal1, vocal2, guitar, bass, room,
kick,
ohr, ohl).

I'm considering trying out the Avenson STO-2's to get more of the kit
in on
the overheads and less proximity effect, but better make some money
first!
so far im doing all this for free. any thoughts?
-alan

Go with an MS overhead and a kick. Gives you the most post options for later
adjustment while still using only three channels.

I don't have an omni right now (although the sto-2's are omni) so MS is
not an option. I could try an x/y right over the top though...

"greggery peccary" wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm trying to record a small kit live with only three channels and a
little
torn between:
a. using two cheap (mxl) sdc overheads and a sennheiser e912 on a board
in
front of the kick towards the snare side

I"m coming into this thread a little late, but has anybody mentioned
Fletcher's 3-mic method?:
http://www.mercenary.com/3micdrumstuf.html

dave

"Dave Morrison" wrote in message
...
but has anybody mentioned
Fletcher's 3-mic method?:
http://www.mercenary.com/3micdrumstuf.html

Man...I'm getting a little too old to read that red on black type. That is
some pretty annoying HTML!

"Charles Tomaras" wrote in message
...

"Dave Morrison" wrote in message
...
but has anybody mentioned
Fletcher's 3-mic method?:
http://www.mercenary.com/3micdrumstuf.html

Man...I'm getting a little too old to read that red on black type. That is
some pretty annoying HTML!




I agree. Do a "Select All" and it turns the type around into a readable
color.

dave

nice background though ;-)

In article .com,
"greggery peccary" wrote:

I don't have an omni right now (although the sto-2's are omni) so MS is
not an option. I could try an x/y right over the top though...

I've had great luck with X/Y overhead plus a kick drum mic. I've used
this on jazz of course, and also on some alt rock projects. You can get
quite a bit out of three mics, but you do want a good sounding kit and a
musician who really knows how to play them. You're mostly capturing
what's there as opposed to fixing a bunch of junk with technology.

--
Jay Frigoletto
Mastersuite
www.promastering.com

"greggery peccary" wrote in message
oups.com...
I don't have an omni right now (although the sto-2's are omni) so MS is
not an option. I could try an x/y right over the top though...


Well you don't need an omni for MS recording. While you could use an omni
for your mid channel I'd suggest a cardiod for your mid for drum OH. You
need a figure of 8 for the sides. I tried to respond to your personal email
at the UW address but it bounced. Email me again from a valid address and I
may be able to help you if you are in Seattle and need to "borrow"
something.

"greggery peccary" wrote in
oups.com:

I don't have an omni right now (although the sto-2's are omni) so MS is
not an option. I could try an x/y right over the top though...

MS doesn't use an omni. It's a cardioid pointing toward the drums and a
figure-8 pointed crossways.

Personally, I'd use XY anyway.

Thanks, the link from Charles has a few ideas to play with. i see the
concept for MS, i confused omni with figure-8. i don't have one of
those either...so I can see having three on the overheads can make an
MS and I'd rather not bother reversing the phase in my ten minute setup
time. Some of my posts are from the UW server and some off Google. My
email is
thanks I'll be glad to hear from you! -alan smith

"greggery peccary" wrote in message
oups.com...
Thanks, the link from Charles has a few ideas to play with. i see the
concept for MS, i confused omni with figure-8. i don't have one of
those either...so I can see having three on the overheads can make an
MS and I'd rather not bother reversing the phase in my ten minute setup
time. Some of my posts are from the UW server and some off Google. My
email is
thanks I'll be glad to hear from you! -alan smith


With a cardiod MS center you end up with a mic pointing directly at the
center of the kit and you bring the sides in to widen and fill out the
cymbals and other parts of the kit. You do not need to do any phase reversal
during your 10 minute setup. You record the figure of 8 to one channel and
the mid to the other. You deal with phase reversal and your stereo width
during your mix NOT during your recording.

"greggery peccary" wrote in message
ups.com...
thanks. sounds like worth a try. now that i think about it, an x/y will
favor the center so if i can x/y with the center being the snare
hitpoint might be something there because it's a small kit. i really
liked my e912 sitting on a 3X2 piece of hardwood in front of the kick
but just outside of it enough to catch some of the other drums.

now this is OT and a bit of a rant but may be of interest and i need to
let it out: mediocre sounding kit, tuning not great but at this point
im done giving the band suggestions. hell i cant even get the singers
to sing into the mic (or to stop trying to swallow it!). everytime i
make a comment or suggestion (and im nice about it) get defensive
responses or "it's just part of the show". next time i'll put my mics
outside and say "it's just part of the show!"; or maybe i should just
emulate Specter! lol just kidding...

Eeeg! Well, I was going to point out that with a 3 mic setup you need to
have a good sounding kit in a good sounding room, but it sounds like half of
that battle is already lost.

How about this nugget of wisdom from a contractor I work with: "If you're
not getting paid to solve the problem, then get paid to prolong the pain".

Sean

greggery peccary wrote:

I'm trying to record a small kit live with only three channels and a
little
torn between:
a. using two cheap (mxl) sdc overheads and a sennheiser e912 on a board
in
front of the kick towards the snare side
b. e912 inside the kick and the two mxl's lower just between the crash
and
snare (facing hat) and other side between the ride and tom.

I like stereo miking on drums, but I also like to have a
spot mic on the snare for options for effects in mixing.
If you don't need a spot on the snare there are some
popular 3 mic techniques for drums. see the Fletcher link.
It depends on what aspect of the drums are important
to the bands sound.

I would like to get the mics setup in the best possible way before i
start
to mess with EQ, but the band gives me about ten minutes to set up (no
joke)
and no sound test.
I suppose I could go with more mics and make a sub mix from the drums,
but
I'm limited to 8 channels total (vocal1, vocal2, guitar, bass, room,
kick,
ohr, ohl).

If it were me I'd throw up 2 small condensors overhead,
either XY, ORTF or spaced pair. I like a variation on ORTF.
Add the kick mic and roll.

I'm considering trying out the Avenson STO-2's to get more of the kit
in on
the overheads and less proximity effect, but better make some money
first!

Proximity shouldn't be an issue with overheads.
I have used omnis overhead though, with reasonable results.
I'd avoid getting too close to anything where proximity
becomes an issue.

so far im doing all this for free. any thoughts?

Only 10 minutes to setup, no sound check and for free ?
They're asking alot, or you're being very accomodating.
Are they at least supplying the aspirin ?

rd

"RD Jones" wrote in message
ups.com...

greggery peccary wrote:

I'm trying to record a small kit live with only three channels and a
little
torn between:
a. using two cheap (mxl) sdc overheads and a sennheiser e912 on a board
in
front of the kick towards the snare side
b. e912 inside the kick and the two mxl's lower just between the crash
and
snare (facing hat) and other side between the ride and tom.

I like stereo miking on drums, but I also like to have a
spot mic on the snare for options for effects in mixing.
If you don't need a spot on the snare there are some
popular 3 mic techniques for drums. see the Fletcher link.
It depends on what aspect of the drums are important
to the bands sound.

I would like to get the mics setup in the best possible way before i
start
to mess with EQ, but the band gives me about ten minutes to set up (no
joke)
and no sound test.
I suppose I could go with more mics and make a sub mix from the drums,
but
I'm limited to 8 channels total (vocal1, vocal2, guitar, bass, room,
kick,
ohr, ohl).

If it were me I'd throw up 2 small condensors overhead,
either XY, ORTF or spaced pair. I like a variation on ORTF.
Add the kick mic and roll.

I'm considering trying out the Avenson STO-2's to get more of the kit
in on
the overheads and less proximity effect, but better make some money
first!

Proximity shouldn't be an issue with overheads.
I have used omnis overhead though, with reasonable results.
I'd avoid getting too close to anything where proximity
becomes an issue.

so far im doing all this for free. any thoughts?

Only 10 minutes to setup, no sound check and for free ?
They're asking alot, or you're being very accomodating.
Are they at least supplying the aspirin ?

rd


ya what have i gotten myself into? no aspirin no nothin. but the beer tap is
tempting (i know it's a nono for working but if im volunteering...)
anyway, i bet the ORTF would work well with the STO-s (better earn some
dough first tho). I also have a studio projects TB1. I'm considering buying
another, or maybe another RODE nt1a, but if I go with the TB1 I might try
both of them as drum OH in a "Office de radio Television Francais" lol.