Martin wrote:

How is it possible to mix the low end with pair of monitors
that are rated 65Hz-20Khz, given that the low E string on
a bass is 41.20 Hz?

It isn't.

Martin


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************

Peter Larsen wrote in message ...
Martin wrote:

How is it possible to mix the low end with pair of monitors
that are rated 65Hz-20Khz, given that the low E string on
a bass is 41.20 Hz?

It isn't.

Martin


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

Ditto - get a subwoofer if you really want to hear what's going on
down low; treat your room too - it's just as important as having good
monitors.

Peter Larsen wrote in message ...
Martin wrote:

How is it possible to mix the low end with pair of monitors
that are rated 65Hz-20Khz, given that the low E string on
a bass is 41.20 Hz?

It isn't.

Martin


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

Ditto - get a subwoofer if you really want to hear what's going on
down low; treat your room too - it's just as important as having good
monitors.

Peter Larsen wrote in message ...
Martin wrote:

How is it possible to mix the low end with pair of monitors
that are rated 65Hz-20Khz, given that the low E string on
a bass is 41.20 Hz?

It isn't.

Martin


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

Ditto - get a subwoofer if you really want to hear what's going on
down low; treat your room too - it's just as important as having good
monitors.

I actually started from scratch with my project studio. Started with the
room and I did build 18 of Ethan Winer's absorbtion panels. But before I
placed them I started looking into monitors and soon discovered many people
liked Tannoy Reveals. I had a listen and for the money I thought they were
pretty good. Then I read the specs and it just didn't make sense as to how
many people liked them, and mix with them, despite the range being
65Hz-20Khz. I'm still undecided on monitors but I believe the range needs to
extend further down than 65 Hz.

Martin


"locosoundman" wrote in message
om...
Peter Larsen wrote in message
...
Martin wrote:

How is it possible to mix the low end with pair of monitors
that are rated 65Hz-20Khz, given that the low E string on
a bass is 41.20 Hz?

It isn't.

Martin


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

Ditto - get a subwoofer if you really want to hear what's going on
down low; treat your room too - it's just as important as having good
monitors.

I actually started from scratch with my project studio. Started with the
room and I did build 18 of Ethan Winer's absorbtion panels. But before I
placed them I started looking into monitors and soon discovered many people
liked Tannoy Reveals. I had a listen and for the money I thought they were
pretty good. Then I read the specs and it just didn't make sense as to how
many people liked them, and mix with them, despite the range being
65Hz-20Khz. I'm still undecided on monitors but I believe the range needs to
extend further down than 65 Hz.

Martin


"locosoundman" wrote in message
om...
Peter Larsen wrote in message
...
Martin wrote:

How is it possible to mix the low end with pair of monitors
that are rated 65Hz-20Khz, given that the low E string on
a bass is 41.20 Hz?

It isn't.

Martin


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

Ditto - get a subwoofer if you really want to hear what's going on
down low; treat your room too - it's just as important as having good
monitors.

I actually started from scratch with my project studio. Started with the
room and I did build 18 of Ethan Winer's absorbtion panels. But before I
placed them I started looking into monitors and soon discovered many people
liked Tannoy Reveals. I had a listen and for the money I thought they were
pretty good. Then I read the specs and it just didn't make sense as to how
many people liked them, and mix with them, despite the range being
65Hz-20Khz. I'm still undecided on monitors but I believe the range needs to
extend further down than 65 Hz.

Martin


"locosoundman" wrote in message
om...
Peter Larsen wrote in message
...
Martin wrote:

How is it possible to mix the low end with pair of monitors
that are rated 65Hz-20Khz, given that the low E string on
a bass is 41.20 Hz?

It isn't.

Martin


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

Ditto - get a subwoofer if you really want to hear what's going on
down low; treat your room too - it's just as important as having good
monitors.

Martin wrote:

/* fixing newbie topposting */

/* leaving more in that usual to demonstrate the advantage */

"locosoundman" wrote in message
om...

Peter Larsen wrote in message
...

Martin wrote:

How is it possible to mix the low end with pair of monitors
that are rated 65Hz-20Khz, given that the low E string on
a bass is 41.20 Hz?

It isn't.

Peter Larsen

Ditto - get a subwoofer if you really want to hear what's going on
down low; treat your room too - it's just as important as having
good monitors.

... I started looking into monitors and soon discovered many people
liked Tannoy Reveals. I had a listen and for the money I thought
they were pretty good. Then I read the specs

Too much spec reading can make you deaf.

and it just didn't make sense as to how many people liked them,
and mix with them, despite the range being 65Hz-20Khz.

What is the tolerance, pro loudspeakers may get spec'ed with a 3 dB
tolerance, the average consumer loudspeaker would get spec'd with say +3
/ -10 dB tolerance. Frequency response doesn't just stop at the lower
spec limit of either way of spec'ing.

The difference is that these - or similar - in a real world room are
likely to offer useful response, the consumer spec, down to say 45 Hz,
not linear, but enough to make you hear whether something is there, and
with experience whether it is "too much", but perhaps not whether it is
"enough". Also synth follies will go undetected.

The general risk is that your mixes may end up "bass light" if you don't
have a sub, or - if "bass heavy", then "upper bass heavy". You don't get
things in perpective, including the perspective in live or "real room"
recordings without a proper rendition of what the room does in the LF
range.

Knowing and understanding the system and the room, recorded as well as
used for playback, can mitigate the issues.

I'm still undecided on monitors but I believe the range needs to
extend further down than 65 Hz.

It does, you will need a pair of subs to go with them _eventually_. It
takes good stereo all the way down to detect some kinds of LF anomaly,
especially such that are also associated with phase issues between
channels.

Martin


Kind regards

Peter Larsen


--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************

Martin wrote:

/* fixing newbie topposting */

/* leaving more in that usual to demonstrate the advantage */

"locosoundman" wrote in message
om...

Peter Larsen wrote in message
...

Martin wrote:

How is it possible to mix the low end with pair of monitors
that are rated 65Hz-20Khz, given that the low E string on
a bass is 41.20 Hz?

It isn't.

Peter Larsen

Ditto - get a subwoofer if you really want to hear what's going on
down low; treat your room too - it's just as important as having
good monitors.

... I started looking into monitors and soon discovered many people
liked Tannoy Reveals. I had a listen and for the money I thought
they were pretty good. Then I read the specs

Too much spec reading can make you deaf.

and it just didn't make sense as to how many people liked them,
and mix with them, despite the range being 65Hz-20Khz.

What is the tolerance, pro loudspeakers may get spec'ed with a 3 dB
tolerance, the average consumer loudspeaker would get spec'd with say +3
/ -10 dB tolerance. Frequency response doesn't just stop at the lower
spec limit of either way of spec'ing.

The difference is that these - or similar - in a real world room are
likely to offer useful response, the consumer spec, down to say 45 Hz,
not linear, but enough to make you hear whether something is there, and
with experience whether it is "too much", but perhaps not whether it is
"enough". Also synth follies will go undetected.

The general risk is that your mixes may end up "bass light" if you don't
have a sub, or - if "bass heavy", then "upper bass heavy". You don't get
things in perpective, including the perspective in live or "real room"
recordings without a proper rendition of what the room does in the LF
range.

Knowing and understanding the system and the room, recorded as well as
used for playback, can mitigate the issues.

I'm still undecided on monitors but I believe the range needs to
extend further down than 65 Hz.

It does, you will need a pair of subs to go with them _eventually_. It
takes good stereo all the way down to detect some kinds of LF anomaly,
especially such that are also associated with phase issues between
channels.

Martin


Kind regards

Peter Larsen


--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************

Martin wrote:

/* fixing newbie topposting */

/* leaving more in that usual to demonstrate the advantage */

"locosoundman" wrote in message
om...

Peter Larsen wrote in message
...

Martin wrote:

How is it possible to mix the low end with pair of monitors
that are rated 65Hz-20Khz, given that the low E string on
a bass is 41.20 Hz?

It isn't.

Peter Larsen

Ditto - get a subwoofer if you really want to hear what's going on
down low; treat your room too - it's just as important as having
good monitors.

... I started looking into monitors and soon discovered many people
liked Tannoy Reveals. I had a listen and for the money I thought
they were pretty good. Then I read the specs

Too much spec reading can make you deaf.

and it just didn't make sense as to how many people liked them,
and mix with them, despite the range being 65Hz-20Khz.

What is the tolerance, pro loudspeakers may get spec'ed with a 3 dB
tolerance, the average consumer loudspeaker would get spec'd with say +3
/ -10 dB tolerance. Frequency response doesn't just stop at the lower
spec limit of either way of spec'ing.

The difference is that these - or similar - in a real world room are
likely to offer useful response, the consumer spec, down to say 45 Hz,
not linear, but enough to make you hear whether something is there, and
with experience whether it is "too much", but perhaps not whether it is
"enough". Also synth follies will go undetected.

The general risk is that your mixes may end up "bass light" if you don't
have a sub, or - if "bass heavy", then "upper bass heavy". You don't get
things in perpective, including the perspective in live or "real room"
recordings without a proper rendition of what the room does in the LF
range.

Knowing and understanding the system and the room, recorded as well as
used for playback, can mitigate the issues.

I'm still undecided on monitors but I believe the range needs to
extend further down than 65 Hz.

It does, you will need a pair of subs to go with them _eventually_. It
takes good stereo all the way down to detect some kinds of LF anomaly,
especially such that are also associated with phase issues between
channels.

Martin


Kind regards

Peter Larsen


--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************

Martin wrote:
I actually started from scratch with my project studio. Started with the
room and I did build 18 of Ethan Winer's absorbtion panels. But before I
placed them I started looking into monitors and soon discovered many people
liked Tannoy Reveals. I had a listen and for the money I thought they were
pretty good. Then I read the specs and it just didn't make sense as to how
many people liked them, and mix with them, despite the range being
65Hz-20Khz. I'm still undecided on monitors but I believe the range needs to
extend further down than 65 Hz.

What does this range mean? Does it mean everything shuts off abruptly at
65 Hz, or does it mean it's 3 dB down at 65 Hz and 4 dB down at 20 Hz?

Frequency ranges without tolerances are meaningless. And anechoic speaker
responses aren't all that useful either since the real response in a real
room will be totally different.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Martin wrote:
I actually started from scratch with my project studio. Started with the
room and I did build 18 of Ethan Winer's absorbtion panels. But before I
placed them I started looking into monitors and soon discovered many people
liked Tannoy Reveals. I had a listen and for the money I thought they were
pretty good. Then I read the specs and it just didn't make sense as to how
many people liked them, and mix with them, despite the range being
65Hz-20Khz. I'm still undecided on monitors but I believe the range needs to
extend further down than 65 Hz.

What does this range mean? Does it mean everything shuts off abruptly at
65 Hz, or does it mean it's 3 dB down at 65 Hz and 4 dB down at 20 Hz?

Frequency ranges without tolerances are meaningless. And anechoic speaker
responses aren't all that useful either since the real response in a real
room will be totally different.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Martin wrote:
I actually started from scratch with my project studio. Started with the
room and I did build 18 of Ethan Winer's absorbtion panels. But before I
placed them I started looking into monitors and soon discovered many people
liked Tannoy Reveals. I had a listen and for the money I thought they were
pretty good. Then I read the specs and it just didn't make sense as to how
many people liked them, and mix with them, despite the range being
65Hz-20Khz. I'm still undecided on monitors but I believe the range needs to
extend further down than 65 Hz.

What does this range mean? Does it mean everything shuts off abruptly at
65 Hz, or does it mean it's 3 dB down at 65 Hz and 4 dB down at 20 Hz?

Frequency ranges without tolerances are meaningless. And anechoic speaker
responses aren't all that useful either since the real response in a real
room will be totally different.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Tannoy Reveals. I had a listen and for the money I thought they were
pretty good. Then I read the specs and it just didn't make sense as to how
many people liked them, and mix with them, despite the range being
65Hz-20Khz.

The spec "65Hz to 20kHz" gives you about one tenth of one percent of the useful
data you need to determine speaker choice. It doesn't even tell you how rolled
off the low end is. I'd take that morsel of info & ****can it, & go back &
listen to see if you hear what you need to hear to make intelligent mix
decisions about the bass.

Scott Fraser

Tannoy Reveals. I had a listen and for the money I thought they were
pretty good. Then I read the specs and it just didn't make sense as to how
many people liked them, and mix with them, despite the range being
65Hz-20Khz.

The spec "65Hz to 20kHz" gives you about one tenth of one percent of the useful
data you need to determine speaker choice. It doesn't even tell you how rolled
off the low end is. I'd take that morsel of info & ****can it, & go back &
listen to see if you hear what you need to hear to make intelligent mix
decisions about the bass.

Scott Fraser

Tannoy Reveals. I had a listen and for the money I thought they were
pretty good. Then I read the specs and it just didn't make sense as to how
many people liked them, and mix with them, despite the range being
65Hz-20Khz.

The spec "65Hz to 20kHz" gives you about one tenth of one percent of the useful
data you need to determine speaker choice. It doesn't even tell you how rolled
off the low end is. I'd take that morsel of info & ****can it, & go back &
listen to see if you hear what you need to hear to make intelligent mix
decisions about the bass.

Scott Fraser

Yes, I have been listening. Without having them at home I doubt that I'm
ever going to know if I can or cannot make a useful mix with them. I just
don't want to buy something that I'll discover later that is not what I
want. Some people did respond saying that you can't mix the low end with a
set of speakers rating "65Hz to 20kHz". For the money I thought the Tannoy
Reveals sounded damn good. My local dealer is bringing in a pair of Dynaudio
BM6 with a P3000 amp and a set of BM6A's for me to try. I'll see how that
goes.

Martin

The spec "65Hz to 20kHz" gives you about one tenth of one percent of the
useful
data you need to determine speaker choice. It doesn't even tell you how
rolled
off the low end is. I'd take that morsel of info & ****can it, & go back &
listen to see if you hear what you need to hear to make intelligent mix
decisions about the bass.

Scott Fraser

Yes, I have been listening. Without having them at home I doubt that I'm
ever going to know if I can or cannot make a useful mix with them. I just
don't want to buy something that I'll discover later that is not what I
want. Some people did respond saying that you can't mix the low end with a
set of speakers rating "65Hz to 20kHz". For the money I thought the Tannoy
Reveals sounded damn good. My local dealer is bringing in a pair of Dynaudio
BM6 with a P3000 amp and a set of BM6A's for me to try. I'll see how that
goes.

Martin

The spec "65Hz to 20kHz" gives you about one tenth of one percent of the
useful
data you need to determine speaker choice. It doesn't even tell you how
rolled
off the low end is. I'd take that morsel of info & ****can it, & go back &
listen to see if you hear what you need to hear to make intelligent mix
decisions about the bass.

Scott Fraser

Yes, I have been listening. Without having them at home I doubt that I'm
ever going to know if I can or cannot make a useful mix with them. I just
don't want to buy something that I'll discover later that is not what I
want. Some people did respond saying that you can't mix the low end with a
set of speakers rating "65Hz to 20kHz". For the money I thought the Tannoy
Reveals sounded damn good. My local dealer is bringing in a pair of Dynaudio
BM6 with a P3000 amp and a set of BM6A's for me to try. I'll see how that
goes.

Martin

The spec "65Hz to 20kHz" gives you about one tenth of one percent of the
useful
data you need to determine speaker choice. It doesn't even tell you how
rolled
off the low end is. I'd take that morsel of info & ****can it, & go back &
listen to see if you hear what you need to hear to make intelligent mix
decisions about the bass.

Scott Fraser

Yes, I have been listening. Without having them at home I doubt that I'm
ever going to know if I can or cannot make a useful mix with them. I just
don't want to buy something that I'll discover later that is not what I
want.

Hopefully your dealer has a return or tradeup policy. It's impossible in my
experience to know how well the speaker in the store demo room will translate
to my space. I need to live with it a good long while.

Some people did respond saying that you can't mix the low end with a
set of speakers rating "65Hz to 20kHz".

People mix records on NS10s which don't have much going on below about 80Hz,
but you learn to compensate & know what your bass is like even when the
speakers don't give you the fundamental. 90% (I'm guessing) of end users have
speakers that don't portray real bass, & supposedly we're making records that
will be heard by these people on those systems.



Scott Fraser

Yes, I have been listening. Without having them at home I doubt that I'm
ever going to know if I can or cannot make a useful mix with them. I just
don't want to buy something that I'll discover later that is not what I
want.

Hopefully your dealer has a return or tradeup policy. It's impossible in my
experience to know how well the speaker in the store demo room will translate
to my space. I need to live with it a good long while.

Some people did respond saying that you can't mix the low end with a
set of speakers rating "65Hz to 20kHz".

People mix records on NS10s which don't have much going on below about 80Hz,
but you learn to compensate & know what your bass is like even when the
speakers don't give you the fundamental. 90% (I'm guessing) of end users have
speakers that don't portray real bass, & supposedly we're making records that
will be heard by these people on those systems.



Scott Fraser

Yes, I have been listening. Without having them at home I doubt that I'm
ever going to know if I can or cannot make a useful mix with them. I just
don't want to buy something that I'll discover later that is not what I
want.

Hopefully your dealer has a return or tradeup policy. It's impossible in my
experience to know how well the speaker in the store demo room will translate
to my space. I need to live with it a good long while.

Some people did respond saying that you can't mix the low end with a
set of speakers rating "65Hz to 20kHz".

People mix records on NS10s which don't have much going on below about 80Hz,
but you learn to compensate & know what your bass is like even when the
speakers don't give you the fundamental. 90% (I'm guessing) of end users have
speakers that don't portray real bass, & supposedly we're making records that
will be heard by these people on those systems.



Scott Fraser

Martin wrote:
I actually started from scratch with my project studio. Started with the
room and I did build 18 of Ethan Winer's absorbtion panels. But before I
placed them I started looking into monitors and soon discovered many people
liked Tannoy Reveals. I had a listen and for the money I thought they were
pretty good. Then I read the specs and it just didn't make sense as to how
many people liked them, and mix with them, despite the range being
65Hz-20Khz. I'm still undecided on monitors but I believe the range needs to
extend further down than 65 Hz.


I have a pair of Tannoy Reveals, and I use a set of headphones
to check the bass.

Martin


"locosoundman" wrote in message
om...

Peter Larsen wrote in message

...

Martin wrote:


How is it possible to mix the low end with pair of monitors
that are rated 65Hz-20Khz, given that the low E string on
a bass is 41.20 Hz?

It isn't.


Martin


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

Ditto - get a subwoofer if you really want to hear what's going on
down low; treat your room too - it's just as important as having good
monitors.





--
--
Les Cargill

Martin wrote:
I actually started from scratch with my project studio. Started with the
room and I did build 18 of Ethan Winer's absorbtion panels. But before I
placed them I started looking into monitors and soon discovered many people
liked Tannoy Reveals. I had a listen and for the money I thought they were
pretty good. Then I read the specs and it just didn't make sense as to how
many people liked them, and mix with them, despite the range being
65Hz-20Khz. I'm still undecided on monitors but I believe the range needs to
extend further down than 65 Hz.


I have a pair of Tannoy Reveals, and I use a set of headphones
to check the bass.

Martin


"locosoundman" wrote in message
om...

Peter Larsen wrote in message

...

Martin wrote:


How is it possible to mix the low end with pair of monitors
that are rated 65Hz-20Khz, given that the low E string on
a bass is 41.20 Hz?

It isn't.


Martin


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

Ditto - get a subwoofer if you really want to hear what's going on
down low; treat your room too - it's just as important as having good
monitors.





--
--
Les Cargill

Martin wrote:
I actually started from scratch with my project studio. Started with the
room and I did build 18 of Ethan Winer's absorbtion panels. But before I
placed them I started looking into monitors and soon discovered many people
liked Tannoy Reveals. I had a listen and for the money I thought they were
pretty good. Then I read the specs and it just didn't make sense as to how
many people liked them, and mix with them, despite the range being
65Hz-20Khz. I'm still undecided on monitors but I believe the range needs to
extend further down than 65 Hz.


I have a pair of Tannoy Reveals, and I use a set of headphones
to check the bass.

Martin


"locosoundman" wrote in message
om...

Peter Larsen wrote in message

...

Martin wrote:


How is it possible to mix the low end with pair of monitors
that are rated 65Hz-20Khz, given that the low E string on
a bass is 41.20 Hz?

It isn't.


Martin


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

Ditto - get a subwoofer if you really want to hear what's going on
down low; treat your room too - it's just as important as having good
monitors.





--
--
Les Cargill