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#81
Posted to rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.tubes,uk.rec.audio
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Here we go again!
"Dozy" wrote in message ... Keith G wrote: No Arny, you've got that all wrong (unless you are *distorting* again which, of course, is highly likely) - it's CDs that are disappearing rapidly. LOL Idiot. If you are posting/crossposting into ukra it's not necessary to declare your *occupation* Dozy, old bean... |
#82
Posted to rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.tubes,uk.rec.audio
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Here we go again!
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message . .. "Keith G" wrote in message No Arny, you've got that all wrong (unless you are *distorting* again which, of course, is highly likely) - it's CDs that are disappearing rapidly. Not in terms of sales percentages. No? I would have thought a fall in sales revenue of 19.8% in just three months was a pretty good indicator: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6933632.stm Vinyl continues to chunter on and with the flood of new hardware (turntables, carts &c.) In the US, LP sales have hit the skids. Again. Wouldn't know, but the phrase 'down, but not out' springs immediately to mind...?? snip Readers of a UK newsgroup might want to ask themselves why a foreigner feels it necessary to pound it relentlessly with *antivinyl propaganda*?? What *antivinyl propaganda*?? Vinyl is what it is - a legacy technology that has been largely abandoned by music lovers because of its inferior sonics and practical difficulties. This is my point entirely - I don't think the 'transatlantic view' is anything like relevant in this UK ng. You and a *precious few* others (crossposted with only a couple of indigenous, from what I can see) can hide behind all the *vinyl denial* you want but the facts are a wee bit different and speak for themselves; the current issue (Aug 2007) of just one 'UK audio magazine' has a 'vinyl mention' on at least 20 pages - not counting much more stuff hidden in text and/or small ads. Here are some quick snaps of the cover and *only* the double-page spreads, to give you an idea: http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/MagCover.jpg http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/DoubleSpread01.JPG http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/DoubleSpread02.JPG http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/DoubleSpread03.JPG http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/DoubleSpread04.JPG http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/DoubleSpread05.JPG http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/DoubleSpread06.JPG How *legacy* and *abandoned* does that look to you? Really? And remember the point I made a day or two ago - having bought some of this hugely expensive kit, the owners are going to want to feed it for a long time to come so I think it's safe to say that there's still a future for modern LPs. I don't think many people are paying 4K for turntables (DoubleSpread05) or 2.3K for carts (DoubleSpread06) just to play the 80s crap from their lofts or Classics For Pleasure cheepies from the local charity shop.... Perhaps you are confusing modern LPs with 78s on 'gramophones'....?? |
#83
Posted to rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.tubes,uk.rec.audio
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Here we go again!
"Rob" wrote in message ... Keith G wrote: ****ing hard to stay out of all this crap, ain't it? :-) Well, the weekend had started :-) This thread is fairly benign. That's because ukra's No.1 Poison Dwarf is no longer with us - you remember: Two rational posts then rapidly degenerating into invective and verbal abuse in any 'vinyl thread'! It's when the rant gets ratcheted up to bits and noise, and CDs simply *must* sound better that I get bemused. A clear case of autosuggestion. What? Like 'Vinyl lovers tend to give the impression there are no poorly recorded LPs.'..?? ;-) |
#84
Posted to rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.tubes,uk.rec.audio
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Here we go again!
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , Rob wrote: This thread is fairly benign. It's when the rant gets ratcheted up to bits and noise, and CDs simply *must* sound better that I get bemused. A clear case of autosuggestion. The CD *medium* will always sound better than vinyl - if you value audio quality. Individual CDs are a different matter. Rubbish in rubbish out. But then that applies to vinyl too. Vinyl lovers tend to give the impression there are no poorly recorded LPs. And CD lovers tend to give the impression there are no poorly recorded CDs, but you should know better than to go by *impressions*... |
#85
Posted to rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.tubes,uk.rec.audio
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Here we go again!
"Keith G" wrote in message
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message . .. "Keith G" wrote in message No, as I've said recently elsewhere, I'm heartily sick of seeing the words 'valvelike' and 'analogue sound' being applied to SS kit and digital music by silly *hip* magazine writers. Agreed, no reason to slander good SS kit and good digital recordings that way. Except to *tempt* people to buy it....?? In fact there's virtually no discussion of SS versus tubed audio gear anyplace but a few esoteric circles. The days of comparsions between tubed and SS passed along several decades ago, with SS winning decisively. Here's your challenge - find a significant (3% of the market) amount of newly-produced media, or even media produced produced in the last 30 years, that didn't pass through at least one SS device. |
#86
Posted to rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.tubes,uk.rec.audio
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Here we go again!
"Keith G" wrote in message
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message . .. "Keith G" wrote in message No Arny, you've got that all wrong (unless you are *distorting* again which, of course, is highly likely) - it's CDs that are disappearing rapidly. Not in terms of sales percentages. No? I would have thought a fall in sales revenue of 19.8% in just three months was a pretty good indicator: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6933632.stm OK Keith, so you can't tell the difference between a sales percentage for vinyl, and an indicator of an ongoing transition from one form of digital media to another form of digital media. Not my problem! |
#87
Posted to rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.tubes,uk.rec.audio
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Here we go again!
"Keith G" wrote in message
And CD lovers tend to give the impression there are no poorly recorded CDs, Straw man argument, if not an out-an-out lie! |
#88
Posted to rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.tubes,uk.rec.audio
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Here we go again!
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... "Keith G" wrote in message And CD lovers tend to give the impression there are no poorly recorded CDs, Straw man argument, if not an out-an-out lie! Just a little too selectively snipped for me, Arny - go say the same to Plowie for "Vinyl lovers tend to give the impression there are no poorly recorded LPs." and we'll maybe continue the debate.... ....but not for a while, I'm off out on me motorcycle while the sun's shining!! :-) |
#89
Posted to rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.tubes,uk.rec.audio
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Here we go again!
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message . .. "Keith G" wrote in message "Arny Krueger" wrote in message . .. "Keith G" wrote in message No, as I've said recently elsewhere, I'm heartily sick of seeing the words 'valvelike' and 'analogue sound' being applied to SS kit and digital music by silly *hip* magazine writers. Agreed, no reason to slander good SS kit and good digital recordings that way. Except to *tempt* people to buy it....?? In fact there's virtually no discussion of SS versus tubed audio gear anyplace but a few esoteric circles. The days of comparsions between tubed and SS passed along several decades ago, with SS winning decisively. Irrelevant. Here's your challenge - find a significant (3% of the market) amount of newly-produced media, or even media produced produced in the last 30 years, that didn't pass through at least one SS device. No, that's *your* challenge and I choose to ignore it - I simply don't care what equipment is used to produce the music I listen to, I only know how I prefer to listen to it. I fully expect various combinations of valve and SS, digital and analogue processes to come into it at some stage, anyway - depending on what the music is, where and when is was recorded and produced... |
#90
Posted to rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.tubes,uk.rec.audio
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Here we go again!
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message . .. "Keith G" wrote in message "Arny Krueger" wrote in message . .. "Keith G" wrote in message No Arny, you've got that all wrong (unless you are *distorting* again which, of course, is highly likely) - it's CDs that are disappearing rapidly. Not in terms of sales percentages. No? I would have thought a fall in sales revenue of 19.8% in just three months was a pretty good indicator: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6933632.stm OK Keith, so you can't tell the difference between a sales percentage for vinyl, and an indicator of an ongoing transition from one form of digital media to another form of digital media. Not my problem! I think it is, unless you are deliberately obfuscating/distorting or, as others imply, failing to read properly or grasp the meaning of my post - my point was that it is CDs which are disappearing and I provided evidence. If you want to relate that simple statement to percentages of the weekly grocery bill or compare it with sales of leather goods or any other thing which is not a CD, then it *is* your problem. (Go ask EMI about this bit in particular: "The British group has been struggling to survive in the face of falling CD sales - particularly in the US market.") |
#91
Posted to rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.tubes,uk.rec.audio
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Here we go again!
In article ,
Keith G wrote: The CD *medium* will always sound better than vinyl - if you value audio quality. Individual CDs are a different matter. Rubbish in rubbish out. But then that applies to vinyl too. Vinyl lovers tend to give the impression there are no poorly recorded LPs. And CD lovers tend to give the impression there are no poorly recorded CDs, but you should know better than to go by *impressions*... Lots and lots on here about poor mastering of recent CDs. Of course had this group existed 30 years ago the complaints would have been about poor pressings. -- *Suicidal twin kills sister by mistake. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#92
Posted to rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.tubes,uk.rec.audio
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Here we go again!
On Sep 1, 9:20 am, "Arny Krueger" wrote:
Here's your challenge - find a significant (3% of the market) amount of newly-produced media, or even media produced produced in the last 30 years, that didn't pass through at least one SS device. Here's your challenge, Arns. Give us the percentage of newly or recently-produced media that passed through at least one tube device. Let's exclude instrument amplification, as that will hugely skew the numbers up. |
#93
Posted to rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.tubes,uk.rec.audio
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Here we go again!
On Aug 31, 3:54 pm, "Arny Krueger" wrote:
"Keith G" wrote in message No, as I've said recently elsewhere, I'm heartily sick of seeing the words 'valvelike' and 'analogue sound' being applied to SS kit and digital music by silly *hip* magazine writers. Agreed, no reason to slander good SS kit and good digital recordings that way. Still having trouble accepting that others don't see it your way. |
#94
Posted to rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.tubes,uk.rec.audio
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Here we go again!
"Keith G" wrote in message
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message . .. "Keith G" wrote in message "Arny Krueger" wrote in message . .. "Keith G" wrote in message My take is that now that the DJ-driven demand for vinyl is falling off, and sales are already dropping preciptiously, the hype will trail off. No Arny, you've got that all wrong (unless you are *distorting* again which, of course, is highly likely) - it's CDs that are disappearing rapidly. Not in terms of sales percentages. No? I would have thought a fall in sales revenue of 19.8% in just three months was a pretty good indicator: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6933632.stm OK Keith, so you can't tell the difference between a sales percentage for vinyl, and an indicator of an ongoing transition from one form of digital media to another form of digital media. Not my problem! I think it is, unless you are deliberately obfuscating/distorting or, as others imply, failing to read properly or grasp the meaning of my post - my point was that it is CDs which are disappearing and I provided evidence. I reproduced my OP on the topic above, and it doesn't even mention CDs. Therefore Keith, your attempt to introduce CD sales, given that CDs are a form of media that I didn't even mention, is an obvious example of a red herring argument. It's just another one of your an intentional attempt to mislead the discussion from its origional intent. The original intent was to make the point that LP sales have dropped preciptiously in the US in the past year - about 33%. |
#95
Posted to rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.tubes,uk.rec.audio
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Here we go again!
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , Keith G wrote: The CD *medium* will always sound better than vinyl - if you value audio quality. Individual CDs are a different matter. Rubbish in rubbish out. But then that applies to vinyl too. Vinyl lovers tend to give the impression there are no poorly recorded LPs. And CD lovers tend to give the impression there are no poorly recorded CDs, but you should know better than to go by *impressions*... Lots and lots on here about poor mastering of recent CDs. Of course had this group existed 30 years ago the complaints would have been about poor pressings. -- *Suicidal twin kills sister by mistake. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. Poor pressings were ubiquitous at the time. I started buying LPs in the sixties, and had a system sufficiently good to appreciate pressing quality by the late 60s. *Every* LP I bought ultimately dissapointed due to surface clicks and pops. Try listening to the second movement of Beethoven's Emperor concerto on LP, and see if you can suspend disbelief that you're scraping the music off the plastic with a rock on the end of a stick. You'll hear every click and pop. I used to return 5 or 6 LPs for every one I bought, in a vain attempt to find a quiet one. I wished and prayed for a distribution medium that would reproduce the master tape without interference. Cassettes (self recorded from Radio 3) were rather better, but pre-recorded cassettes weren't as good as LPs as although they didn't have the impulsive noise, they had all sorts of other shortcomings. When, in 1977, I first heard what became CD, (I was working for Philips at the time), it was what I had been waiting for. What was eventually released after Sony got involved was even better than Philips's own developments. (As an aside, Philips conceived CD as an in-car medium only, and the first CDs were rather smaller and of lower quality, so the player could fit into a standard DIN car radio slot) *Everything* about CD was as improvement over LP and cassette. Even the much maligned jewel box, I couldn't see much wrong with it once you got the hang of opening it. Sleeve art aside, CDs came with a booklet, so even the sleeve notes were often more comprehensive. No, for me at least, CD did and still does everything I need from a music carrier, and I play LPs for fun, (I have three turntables) much as I would drive a 1930s MG, or when the musical content is more important than the reproduced quality. S. -- http://audiopages.googlepages.com |
#96
Posted to rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.tubes,uk.rec.audio
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Here we go again!
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message . .. "Keith G" wrote in message "Arny Krueger" wrote in message . .. "Keith G" wrote in message "Arny Krueger" wrote in message . .. "Keith G" wrote in message My take is that now that the DJ-driven demand for vinyl is falling off, and sales are already dropping preciptiously, the hype will trail off. No Arny, you've got that all wrong (unless you are *distorting* again which, of course, is highly likely) - it's CDs that are disappearing rapidly. Not in terms of sales percentages. No? I would have thought a fall in sales revenue of 19.8% in just three months was a pretty good indicator: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6933632.stm OK Keith, so you can't tell the difference between a sales percentage for vinyl, and an indicator of an ongoing transition from one form of digital media to another form of digital media. Not my problem! I think it is, unless you are deliberately obfuscating/distorting or, as others imply, failing to read properly or grasp the meaning of my post - my point was that it is CDs which are disappearing and I provided evidence. I reproduced my OP on the topic above, and it doesn't even mention CDs. Therefore Keith, your attempt to introduce CD sales, given that CDs are a form of media that I didn't even mention, is an obvious example of a red herring argument. It's just another one of your an intentional attempt to mislead the discussion from its origional intent. When you deliberately crosspost into ukra you will get dragged anywhere us ukranians want to take you. (It's hard, but then life *is* hard - deal with it....) AFAIAC and in context, my CD comment was a perfectly valid counter to the immediately preceding remarks concerning vinyl. I neither know nor care what was said in the OP - wherever it was and whenever was. (Tbh, I have been blowing this thread en bloc and have only responded the the old isolated remark that I have obviously found too difficult to ignore.) The original intent was to make the point that LP sales have dropped preciptiously in the US in the past year - about 33%. And this? Just WTF has that to do with the price of pork chops in Saigon? Like, who TF *cares* - It wouldn't even bother me if it was true for the UK!! I wish a) these *transatlantic* crosspostings would end and b) I had the willpower to resist them entirely... (But I can't. I'll just have to try and live with it! :-)) |
#97
Posted to rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.tubes,uk.rec.audio
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Here we go again!
"Serge Auckland" wrote Poor pressings were ubiquitous at the time. ?? I dunno, I must be much more easily pleased - I don't remember *ever* taking an LP back to the shop!! The nearest to that I actually remember was complaining to an eBay seller about a ropey Bladerunner I had bought. He said 'Sorry about that, I'll send you a couple more to see if you can get a good one out of them and I'll complain to my supplier!' - and he did! It turns out they were brand new *bootlegs* being knocked out in Germany somewhere!! Also, I now remember, Swim bought me Bjork's 'Medullah' on vinyl up in Scotland a couple of years back. Some distance away from the shop, she stopped and slipped it out to check it (she's bought more vinyl than most here, I suspect, and knows the score). There were some 'dimples' on it, so she took it straight back to swap it only to find the two other copies the shop had were gone in the 10 minutes or so since she left the shop! Daft sod then got a refund and the net result is I still don't have Medullah on vinyl yet!! (Dimples don't bother me either!! ;-) Real time interruption: Swim has just advised me that Mole Jazz has now closed down forever!! :-( I started buying LPs in the sixties, and had a system sufficiently good to appreciate pressing quality by the late 60s. *Every* LP I bought ultimately dissapointed due to surface clicks and pops. Try listening to the second movement of Beethoven's Emperor concerto on LP, and see if you can suspend disbelief that you're scraping the music off the plastic with a rock on the end of a stick. You'll hear every click and pop. I used to return 5 or 6 LPs for every one I bought, in a vain attempt to find a quiet one. Streuth.... *Everything* about CD was as improvement over LP and cassette. Even the much maligned jewel box, I couldn't see much wrong with it once you got the hang of opening it. You're kidding now, Serge - aren't you? Sleeve art aside, CDs came with a booklet, so even the sleeve notes were often more comprehensive. Whaaat? Even the *Demon Digi***** (who shall remain nameless and who is no longer with us) readily conceded the artwork/sleeve notes were much better with LPs. Ain't you got any LPs with all the *words* (and translations) on nice, big, fold-out booklets? (Stuck for the right name - 'libretti' doesn't seem right....) No, for me at least, CD did and still does everything I need from a music carrier, and I play LPs for fun, (I have three turntables) much as I would drive a 1930s MG, or when the musical content is more important than the reproduced quality. But what if you found yourself driving the MG much more than your 'modern' car...??? |
#98
Posted to rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.tubes,uk.rec.audio
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Here we go again!
So do I. OK, so that precludes anything on vinyl because any recording on
vinyl is by definition not well recorded. No skin off my nose. I'm not sure I would go that far. I have been harping on the theoretical advantages of digital audio since 1976. But I have some LPs dating back to the early 70s that I would say are very well recorded, and provide the same level of enjoyment as a well recorded CD, even if there is the occasional tick or pop. Here are some of my favorite LPs: - Toto IV - Toto (Columbia) - Abbey Road - Beatles (Mobile Fidelity) - Capriccio Italien from the 1812 Overture LP - Tchaikovsky (Telarc) - Aspen Gold - Kingston Trio (Nautilus) - Their Greatest Hits 1971-1975 - Eagles (Asylum) To name a few. Some recordings, such as Rumours by Fleetwood Mac sound better on the LP. The 1982 CD remaster simply falls flat - not the technology, but the implementation. On the other hand, the Mirage CD from the same era sounds great. |
#99
Posted to rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.tubes,uk.rec.audio
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Note to Jenn
"George I M A ****" cmndr _ george @ comcast . net wrote in message ... You admit you don't care about other opinions either, Incorrect. What part of "And I couldn't give a rat's what YOU prefer either." is incorrect? If this doesn't tell you how futile it is to argue with ****, then you deserve the coming rounds of "debating trade" you're heading for. Yes George, silly isn't it to debate with someone who can actually quote what you said when you deny it. You would prefer people with memories shorter than your own, IF they even exist. MrT. |
#100
Posted to rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.tubes,uk.rec.audio
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Here we go again!
"George IM. ****" cmndr _ george @ comcast . net wrote in message news:repost.4bued3hje57agm4grbe3tnq0f1aksb87up@4ax .com... The corrected version reads "You, like other enlightened individuals, are perfectly justified in ignoring the opinions of gibbering baboons." Thanks, I will. MrT. |
#101
Posted to rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.tubes,uk.rec.audio
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Here we go again!
"roughplanet" wrote in message u... Uh huh. So this is where you hang out these days, still banging the same old anti-vinyl gong. If I'm so anti vinyl, how come I still have over 1000 LP's? Face it Ruff, *I* didn't start this or *ANY* other vinyl Vs digital debate. Can you say the same? Different newsgroup, same message. Not much changes, does it T? Nope, some people still can't accept that technology has actually improved. MrT. |
#102
Posted to rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.tubes,uk.rec.audio
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Here we go again!
"Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" wrote in message ups.com... Here's your challenge, Arns. Give us the percentage of newly or recently-produced media that passed through at least one tube device. Let's exclude instrument amplification, as that will hugely skew the numbers up. Yes, unlike many of the posters here, most professional guitarists I know actually accept that there is a difference between musical *production* and music *reproduction* Too subtle a concept for many it seems. MrT. |
#103
Posted to rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.tubes,uk.rec.audio
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Here we go again!
"Keith G" wrote in message ... No Jenn you've got it all wrong. We're accusing vinyl fans of distorting established scientific facts to support their delusional position that the best sounding LPs sound more lifelike than a well-made CD. Which, of course, it does - ask anybody who isn't in *denial*.... Did you forget the smiley, or the medication :-) MrT. |
#104
Posted to rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.tubes,uk.rec.audio
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Here we go again!
"Jenn" wrote in message et... You've missed the point yet again. My point is that I've distorted NOTHING. You and Mr. T can keep distorting my statements any way you wish to. I "pity the fools" who can read simple posts. Yep, your posts are so simple they are content free it seems. ANY interpretation is strongly denied! MrT. |
#105
Posted to rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.tubes,uk.rec.audio
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Here we go again!
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message . .. Yep it's been happening for 25 years and no sign of stopping. My take is that now that the DJ-driven demand for vinyl is falling off, and sales are already dropping preciptiously, the hype will trail off. I'll bet it doesn't, unfortunately. Vinylista propaganda is more like an indeology than a religion. Converting to Vinylism seems to often involve refuting the established claims of science, Isn't that just what Religion did too? Should we still accept that the sun and stars revolve around the earth? Was Darwin right, or just another heretic like Galileo? And how old is the universe in your religion Arny? What about the so called "intelligent design", "debate"? Still let's NOT go down that track in this newsgroup! :-) MrT. |
#106
Posted to rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.tubes,uk.rec.audio
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Here we go again!
"Keith G" wrote in message ... No Arny, you've got that all wrong (unless you are *distorting* again which, of course, is highly likely) - it's CDs that are disappearing rapidly. Where the hell do YOU live? But I note you do NOT claim vinyl sales have even reached the most minuscule percentage of CD sales, or availability. It's amazing what you can do with statistics though. An Audio rag recently claimed that turntable sales in England were greater than CD player sales last year. Even IF true, what they conveniently ignored was the millions of DVD player, SACD player, DVDA player and other assorted hybrid player sales, that all play standard CD disks. "Never let the facts get in the way of a good argument" is still a widely accepted philosophy it seems. MrT. |
#107
Posted to rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.tubes,uk.rec.audio
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Here we go again!
"Rob" wrote in message ... My take is that they PREFER the so called "euphonic distortions", Prefer the sound, OK. I think you just have to take a deep breath, relax, and get over it. And IF they did, these debates would have finished 25 years ago. Some people still listen to wax cylinders, without needing to "prove" they are better than CD but can't possibly accept the fact that they may PREFER something not actually as technically accurate. I don't think 'they' know or care, in general. And the ones that don't DO NOT post their opinions here obviously. They then have to come up with stupid explanations plausible to themselves, Really? Again, generally people just prefer the sound. The 'why' isn't particularly important. Knowing why might be interesting, but it's hardly requisite. Sure it is when they are claiming to the world that their *preference* is technically superior, when all proof is to the contrary. MrT. |
#108
Posted to rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.tubes,uk.rec.audio
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Here we go again!
Mr.T wrote:
"Rob" wrote in message ... My take is that they PREFER the so called "euphonic distortions", Prefer the sound, OK. I think you just have to take a deep breath, relax, and get over it. And IF they did, these debates would have finished 25 years ago. Some people still listen to wax cylinders, without needing to "prove" they are better than CD but can't possibly accept the fact that they may PREFER something not actually as technically accurate. I don't think 'they' know or care, in general. And the ones that don't DO NOT post their opinions here obviously. Mmm. Not sure what you mean. I know that I generally prefer the sound of vinyl. I don't know why it sounds better than, say, CD. And I post here. They then have to come up with stupid explanations plausible to themselves, Really? Again, generally people just prefer the sound. The 'why' isn't particularly important. Knowing why might be interesting, but it's hardly requisite. Sure it is when they are claiming to the world that their *preference* is technically superior, when all proof is to the contrary. I don't think anyone on this NG (or elsewhere, come to that) has the ability to *prove* the inherent technical superiority of one over the other. It depends on your definition of 'technical', and the significance of that definition when it comes to the sound. I think. Rob |
#109
Posted to rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.tubes,uk.rec.audio
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Here we go again!
In article ddlCi.2291$sf1.250@trnddc01, Karl Uppiano
scribeth thus So do I. OK, so that precludes anything on vinyl because any recording on vinyl is by definition not well recorded. No skin off my nose. I'm not sure I would go that far. I have been harping on the theoretical advantages of digital audio since 1976. But I have some LPs dating back to the early 70s that I would say are very well recorded, and provide the same level of enjoyment as a well recorded CD, even if there is the occasional tick or pop. Here are some of my favorite LPs: - Toto IV - Toto (Columbia) - Abbey Road - Beatles (Mobile Fidelity) - Capriccio Italien from the 1812 Overture LP - Tchaikovsky (Telarc) - Aspen Gold - Kingston Trio (Nautilus) - Their Greatest Hits 1971-1975 - Eagles (Asylum) To name a few. Some recordings, such as Rumours by Fleetwood Mac sound better on the LP. The 1982 CD remaster simply falls flat - not the technology, but the implementation. On the other hand, the Mirage CD from the same era sounds great. I remember several years ago being demonstrated some vinyl replay at the home of Derek Scotland of Audiolab fame. I was very surprised by just how good it was then!. All down to a very good MM pre-amp stage, he spent a lot of time getting that designed right!. Good replay system Audiolab and ESL63's, and most important of all there wasn't one single pressing from the UK!. All were from Germany or the USA and specialised suppliers at that!. I remember his opinion of anything to do with any plastic pressing or moulding process in the UK as, ...."all we're capable of is making children's **** pots!"...... Meaning sadly amongst many other things that the UK doesn't have such people as plastics engineers;(.... and this was before the days that record producers had the notion that CD's should all be the "radio edit" versions!.... -- Tony Sayer |
#110
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Here we go again!
In article ,
Rob wrote: Mmm. Not sure what you mean. I know that I generally prefer the sound of vinyl. I don't know why it sounds better than, say, CD. And I post here. You like the added harmonic distortion. Rock guitar players do too. Others will find it pleasant enough on some material but very objectionable on others. They then have to come up with stupid explanations plausible to themselves, Really? Again, generally people just prefer the sound. The 'why' isn't particularly important. Knowing why might be interesting, but it's hardly requisite. Sure it is when they are claiming to the world that their *preference* is technically superior, when all proof is to the contrary. I don't think anyone on this NG (or elsewhere, come to that) has the ability to *prove* the inherent technical superiority of one over the other. It depends on your definition of 'technical', and the significance of that definition when it comes to the sound. I think. Parameters to measure an audio signal have been around and accepted for many a year - and by the very people who make both the equipment and sources you listen to. And vinyl doesn't measure well. Of course you can fool yourself that those parameters aren't important. Provided you are very selective about which ones. -- *Speak softly and carry a cellular phone * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#111
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Here we go again!
In article ,
tony sayer wrote: I remember several years ago being demonstrated some vinyl replay at the home of Derek Scotland of Audiolab fame. I was very surprised by just how good it was then!. All down to a very good MM pre-amp stage, he spent a lot of time getting that designed right!. Good replay system Audiolab and ESL63's, and most important of all there wasn't one single pressing from the UK!. All were from Germany or the USA and specialised suppliers at that!. I've no doubt he was also careful to select the sort of music which either masks the inherent distortions or is 'enhanced' by them. -- *Work is for people who don't know how to fish. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#112
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Here we go again!
"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message u... "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" wrote in message ups.com... Here's your challenge, Arns. Give us the percentage of newly or recently-produced media that passed through at least one tube device. Let's exclude instrument amplification, as that will hugely skew the numbers up. Yes, unlike many of the posters here, most professional guitarists I know actually accept that there is a difference between musical *production* and music *reproduction* Too subtle a concept for many it seems. Way too subtle for a subintellect like ****R. |
#113
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Here we go again!
"Keith G" wrote in message ... "Arny Krueger" wrote in message . .. "Keith G" wrote in message "Arny Krueger" wrote in message . .. "Keith G" wrote in message "Arny Krueger" wrote in message . .. "Keith G" wrote in message My take is that now that the DJ-driven demand for vinyl is falling off, and sales are already dropping preciptiously, the hype will trail off. No Arny, you've got that all wrong (unless you are *distorting* again which, of course, is highly likely) - it's CDs that are disappearing rapidly. Not in terms of sales percentages. No? I would have thought a fall in sales revenue of 19.8% in just three months was a pretty good indicator: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6933632.stm OK Keith, so you can't tell the difference between a sales percentage for vinyl, and an indicator of an ongoing transition from one form of digital media to another form of digital media. Not my problem! I think it is, unless you are deliberately obfuscating/distorting or, as others imply, failing to read properly or grasp the meaning of my post - my point was that it is CDs which are disappearing and I provided evidence. I reproduced my OP on the topic above, and it doesn't even mention CDs. Therefore Keith, your attempt to introduce CD sales, given that CDs are a form of media that I didn't even mention, is an obvious example of a red herring argument. It's just another one of your an intentional attempt to mislead the discussion from its origional intent. AFAIAC and in context, my CD comment was a perfectly valid counter to the immediately preceding remarks concerning vinyl. Repeating an intentional distraction doesn't make it less of a distraction. |
#114
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Here we go again!
"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message u... "Keith G" wrote in message ... No Arny, you've got that all wrong (unless you are *distorting* again which, of course, is highly likely) - it's CDs that are disappearing rapidly. Where the hell do YOU live? Keith seems to spend a lot of time in some other universe - one where there are actually a signficiant number of people who care about tubes, vinyl, noisy microphones and tinny-sounding speakers. But I note you do NOT claim vinyl sales have even reached the most minuscule percentage of CD sales, or availability. Letsee, RIAA statistics show that several hundred million CDs were sold last year, and Keith thinks that they are "disappearing rapidly"? You've got to wonder what's in Keith's blood besides blood! It's amazing what you can do with statistics though. An Audio rag recently claimed that turntable sales in England were greater than CD player sales last year. I'm sitting here thinking that the sales of home optical players has migrated from CD to DVD so fast that there might even be a bit of truth to this claim. Even IF true, what they conveniently ignored was the millions of DVD player, SACD player, DVDA player and other assorted hybrid player sales, that all play standard CD disks. Not that much less of a stretch than what Keith was saying - that the fact that CD sales are being replaced by downloaded music is somehow relevant to the fact that analog media like the LP went from 100% of the market to only a percent or two. "Never let the facts get in the way of a good argument" is still a widely accepted philosophy it seems. Agreed. |
#115
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Here we go again!
"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message u... "Arny Krueger" wrote in message . .. Yep it's been happening for 25 years and no sign of stopping. My take is that now that the DJ-driven demand for vinyl is falling off, and sales are already dropping preciptiously, the hype will trail off. I'll bet it doesn't, unfortunately. Vinylista propaganda is more like an indeology than a religion. Converting to Vinylism seems to often involve refuting the established claims of science, Isn't that just what Religion did too? Certain religions have done just about anything stupid that you can imagine. Should we still accept that the sun and stars revolve around the earth? Remember that established Science taught that for most of recorded history. Was Darwin right, or just another heretic like Galileo? They got more than a few things right. And how old is the universe in your religion Arny? Indefinately long. What about the so called "intelligent design", "debate"? Nothing I support as Science. Still let's NOT go down that track in this newsgroup! :-) I don't think we have any TV evangelists who are saying that their magic prayer cloth will double the number of molecules of anything you wrap with it. Do we? ;-) |
#116
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Here we go again!
"Rob" wrote in message ... I don't think anyone on this NG (or elsewhere, come to that) has the ability to *prove* the inherent technical superiority of one over the other. Sure we do, within the context of audio technology. It depends on your definition of 'technical', Check your dictionary. and the significance of that definition when it comes to the sound. I think. Think again. |
#117
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Here we go again!
"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message u... "Keith G" wrote in message ... No Arny, you've got that all wrong (unless you are *distorting* again which, of course, is highly likely) - it's CDs that are disappearing rapidly. Where the hell do YOU live? But I note you do NOT claim vinyl sales have even reached the most minuscule percentage of CD sales, or availability. Why should I make any such claim? - I neither know nor care, but think about this: If 'vinylists' were as *elitist* as some here would have you believe, then the smaller that percentage, the better - no? It's amazing what you can do with statistics though. An Audio rag recently claimed that turntable sales in England were greater than CD player sales last year. Even IF true, what they conveniently ignored was the millions of DVD player, SACD player, DVDA player and other assorted hybrid player sales, that all play standard CD disks. Factor in the 'iPod effect' and you've answered your own question... "Never let the facts get in the way of a good argument" is still a widely accepted philosophy it seems. Facts? That's an intriguing prospect - we get a lot of 'facts' in here (ukra).... |
#118
Posted to rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.tubes,uk.rec.audio
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Here we go again!
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message . .. "Keith G" wrote in message ... "Arny Krueger" wrote in message . .. "Keith G" wrote in message "Arny Krueger" wrote in message . .. "Keith G" wrote in message "Arny Krueger" wrote in message . .. "Keith G" wrote in message My take is that now that the DJ-driven demand for vinyl is falling off, and sales are already dropping preciptiously, the hype will trail off. No Arny, you've got that all wrong (unless you are *distorting* again which, of course, is highly likely) - it's CDs that are disappearing rapidly. Not in terms of sales percentages. No? I would have thought a fall in sales revenue of 19.8% in just three months was a pretty good indicator: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6933632.stm OK Keith, so you can't tell the difference between a sales percentage for vinyl, and an indicator of an ongoing transition from one form of digital media to another form of digital media. Not my problem! I think it is, unless you are deliberately obfuscating/distorting or, as others imply, failing to read properly or grasp the meaning of my post - my point was that it is CDs which are disappearing and I provided evidence. I reproduced my OP on the topic above, and it doesn't even mention CDs. Therefore Keith, your attempt to introduce CD sales, given that CDs are a form of media that I didn't even mention, is an obvious example of a red herring argument. It's just another one of your an intentional attempt to mislead the discussion from its origional intent. AFAIAC and in context, my CD comment was a perfectly valid counter to the immediately preceding remarks concerning vinyl. Repeating an intentional distraction doesn't make it less of a distraction. Repeating complaints in a UK-centric ng about UK responses to crossposted US irrelevancies doesn't mean they'll stop either... Now stop bitching or I'll hijack this thread and turn it into a DAB vs, DAB+ debate and all you Merkins will get to hear about how Brit radio is going down the *digital tubes* alongside recorded music and TV transmissions... |
#119
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Here we go again!
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message . .. "Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message u... "Keith G" wrote in message ... No Arny, you've got that all wrong (unless you are *distorting* again which, of course, is highly likely) - it's CDs that are disappearing rapidly. Where the hell do YOU live? Keith seems to spend a lot of time in some other universe - one where there are actually a signficiant number of people who care about tubes, vinyl, noisy microphones and tinny-sounding speakers. Much as it may irk you, I gather there are *millions* of people on this planet who do some or even all of those things.... But I note you do NOT claim vinyl sales have even reached the most minuscule percentage of CD sales, or availability. Letsee, RIAA statistics show that several hundred million CDs were sold last year, and Keith thinks that they are "disappearing rapidly"? No, you got that wrong - I wouldn't know, I merely posted a link to show that the BBC (if no-one else) thinks they are.... |
#120
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Here we go again!
"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message ... "Rob" wrote in message ... My take is that they PREFER the so called "euphonic distortions", Prefer the sound, OK. I think you just have to take a deep breath, relax, and get over it. And IF they did, these debates would have finished 25 years ago. Some people still listen to wax cylinders, without needing to "prove" they are better than CD I don't know a single soul who plays LPs who feels he needs to *prove* anything.... |