Hi all,

Using the Ultracurve Pro's DSP based parametric EQ to handle my awful
bass room modes, and it seems to work well.
However:
Of the input level LED graph only the bottom leds are sometimes lit, and
only during very loud passages.
The manual says level must be set so that the orange LEDS are lit during
loud passages.
I used my Marantz receiver's preouts to connect to the DEQ2496, and back
to the main ins.
Now my nagging worry is:
Can this low level be bad for the sound?
I seem to have read somewehere that a DAC/ADC doesn't work properly
unless a good level is applied.
Tried to insert a 12dB preamp just before the Behringer, but it didn't
make much difference- seems silly to use a 35dB amp and attenuate that
at the Behringer's output!

Anyone?

Barend wrote:

Hi all,

Using the Ultracurve Pro's DSP based parametric EQ to handle my awful
bass room modes, and it seems to work well.
However:
Of the input level LED graph only the bottom leds are sometimes lit, and
only during very loud passages.
The manual says level must be set so that the orange LEDS are lit during
loud passages.
I used my Marantz receiver's preouts to connect to the DEQ2496, and back
to the main ins.
Now my nagging worry is:
Can this low level be bad for the sound?
I seem to have read somewehere that a DAC/ADC doesn't work properly
unless a good level is applied.
Tried to insert a 12dB preamp just before the Behringer, but it didn't
make much difference- seems silly to use a 35dB amp and attenuate that
at the Behringer's output!

Anyone?

You're operating the unit at 'consumer hi-fi' level rather than 'pro level'.

It's not actually 'bad' as such but it's technically true that you're that
much closer to any converter issues by doing that.

Unlikely to be audible though.

Most Behringer units I've met like this have a choice of -10dBV or +4dBu
working on the back. Select -10dBV if you haven't already.

Graham

"Pooh Bear" wrote in message
...


Barend wrote:

Hi all,

Using the Ultracurve Pro's DSP based parametric EQ to handle my awful
bass room modes, and it seems to work well.
However:
Of the input level LED graph only the bottom leds are sometimes lit, and
only during very loud passages.

You're operating the unit at 'consumer hi-fi' level rather than 'pro
level'.

It's not actually 'bad' as such but it's technically true that you're that
much closer to any converter issues by doing that.

Unlikely to be audible though.

Most Behringer units I've met like this have a choice of -10dBV or +4dBu
working on the back. Select -10dBV if you haven't already.

There is a "MAX" switch on the back that switches the analog I/O between +12
dBu and +22 dBu. I don't know how this correlates to the standard -10 / +4
that I'm used to, but it's obviously worth a try.

Sean

In article ,
says...

Thanks,
Already tried the switch.
I think I will try the EQ between the CD and the Marantz and between the
Marantz and the final amp, and make a switchbox to find out if there's
any sonic probs here- the CD outputs several volts.
Cheers

Sean Conolly wrote:

"Pooh Bear" wrote...

Barend wrote:

Using the Ultracurve Pro's DSP based parametric EQ to handle my awful
bass room modes, and it seems to work well.
However:
Of the input level LED graph only the bottom leds are sometimes lit, and
only during very loud passages.

You're operating the unit at 'consumer hi-fi' level rather than 'pro
level'.

It's not actually 'bad' as such but it's technically true that you're that
much closer to any converter issues by doing that.

Unlikely to be audible though.

Most Behringer units I've met like this have a choice of -10dBV or +4dBu
working on the back. Select -10dBV if you haven't already.

There is a "MAX" switch on the back that switches the analog I/O between +12
dBu and +22 dBu. I don't know how this correlates to the standard -10 / +4
that I'm used to, but it's obviously worth a try.

Check also that the unbalanced feed from the receiver is properly wired
for the DEQ's input. See page 19 in the manual.

--
ha

Barend wrote:

In article ,
says...

Thanks,
Already tried the switch.
I think I will try the EQ between the CD and the Marantz and between the
Marantz and the final amp, and make a switchbox to find out if there's
any sonic probs here- the CD outputs several volts.
Cheers

I doubt you'll hear any difference but it's possible you'll convince
yourself you can !

Graham

Well I've read "somewhere on the web" that unless a converter gets a
proper (reed 0dB) level it tends to miss some bits (whatever that
means...)
I'm usually not too prone to esoterics, had a very beautiful Chinese
preamp here for testing, but for the life of me I could not hear ANY
diffs with or without, listened with my KEF Reference's AND with my
Sennheiser HD650...
But man those valves glowed sexy!
Next I'm gonna try some of these lighthousy things on top of the
speakers- they say these improve the sound (grin).
Or silver fuses (I've taken the cheap road and bridged my fuses with
very thick copper wire- sounded much fatter!).

"Barend" wrote in message
...
Well I've read "somewhere on the web" that unless a converter gets a
proper (reed 0dB) level it tends to miss some bits (whatever that
means...)

Well, you also have to remember that 24 bits is far more dynamic range than
you're going to use acoustically in your room, and far more than your 16 bit
CDs. I don't think you need to worry about getting a hotter level through
the DEQ, and the less stuff you run the signal through the better it's going
to sound anyway.

Sean

In article , sjconolly_98
@yaaho.com says...
"Barend" wrote in message
...
Well I've read "somewhere on the web" that unless a converter gets a
proper (reed 0dB) level it tends to miss some bits (whatever that
means...)

Well, you also have to remember that 24 bits is far more dynamic range than
you're going to use acoustically in your room, and far more than your 16 bit
CDs. I don't think you need to worry about getting a hotter level through
the DEQ, and the less stuff you run the signal through the better it's going
to sound anyway.

Sean



Thanks Sean,
I think I'm gonna listen to the MUSIC now instead of trying to spot a
missing bit...

Barend wrote:

In article , sjconolly_98
@yaaho.com says...
"Barend" wrote in message
...
Well I've read "somewhere on the web" that unless a converter gets a
proper (reed 0dB) level it tends to miss some bits (whatever that
means...)

Well, you also have to remember that 24 bits is far more dynamic range than
you're going to use acoustically in your room, and far more than your 16 bit
CDs. I don't think you need to worry about getting a hotter level through
the DEQ, and the less stuff you run the signal through the better it's going
to sound anyway.

Sean



Thanks Sean,
I think I'm gonna listen to the MUSIC now instead of trying to spot a
missing bit...

It's not about *missing bits* btw.

As the level drops towards the *noise floor*, the converter accuracy simply
degrades a bit.

In the dim and distant past that inaccuracy was enough to make the digital code at
low level very poor. Today's converters are much better. Look for the word
*monotonic*in converter sepcs.

There are never any missing bits - just bits that aren't as accurate as you might
like.

Graham

"Barend" wrote in message

In article ,
sjconolly_98 @yaaho.com says...
"Barend" wrote in message
...

Well I've read "somewhere on the web" that unless a
converter gets a proper (reed 0dB) level it tends to
miss some bits (whatever that means...)

That would be old news, as in news that is not all that
relevant to the way things are today.

Well, you also have to remember that 24 bits is far more
dynamic range than you're going to use acoustically in
your room, and far more than your 16 bit CDs. I don't
think you need to worry about getting a hotter level
through the DEQ,

Agreed. The DEQ probably does provide a real 16 bits worth
of dynamic range when you operate it up to FS which takes
audio production levels to get to. Consumer levels are about
12 dB or 2 bits less. However, 14 bit real-world performance
is nothing to sneer at.

Remember that your typical CD has like 11-12 bit real world
resolution, and that's on a good day. There have been a lot
of bad days lately... :-(

Thanks Sean, I think I'm gonna listen to the MUSIC now
instead of
trying to spot a missing bit...

Exactly. Enjoy the music! ;-)

Barend wrote:
Well I've read "somewhere on the web" that unless a converter gets a
proper (reed 0dB) level it tends to miss some bits (whatever that
means...)

There are no more dead bands. This is not 1981 any longer. We have
dither today, so converters ought to be linear at any level if they
are properly designed.

Whether the Behringer is properly designed or not, I have no idea.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

"Barend"
Of the input level LED graph only the bottom leds are sometimes lit,
and
only during very loud passages.
The manual says level must be set so that the orange LEDS are lit
during
loud passages.
I used my Marantz receiver's preouts to connect to the DEQ2496, and
back
to the main ins.
Now my nagging worry is:
Can this low level be bad for the sound?

I use my CD digital output into the DEQ digital input, and my analog
preamp output into the DEQ analog input. That way the DEQ is optimised
for my critical listening (CD), and still OK for casual listening on
analog. I haven't tried DBT on analog vs digital, but I can say I hear
some analog hiss but the digital is dead dead quiet and I prefer that.
That is why I think it's worth your while to get the levels up, for me
it's more about hiss than lost bits.

I recommend using the digital input to the DEQ. I detect some noise in
its analog input stage. It can't hurt to completely bypass the DAC in
your CD and the ADC in the DEQ, plus have optimal level matching??

BTW if you do this, you will need to adjust the gain offset (under the
Utility menu) *down* below 0dB if you have any boost to the EQ
settings (GEQ or PEQ), especially in the bass.