Michael McKelvy wrote:


How is it you figure we're the stupid ones when we have a growing economy
and most of the rest of the world is stagnate?

Umm, I think a fact check is in order.


How is it we're stupid when we have the highest homeownership levels in the
world?

Parroting the Bush soundbites are you? This certainly does not tell the
whole story. We have a higher level of debt in this home "ownership"
than any other time in our history, and certainly higher than any other
nation.

This is how the conservatives treat those who dare to voice a different
viewpoint, even those in their own party. Jolly good, ey?




"Conservative leader targets Specter"
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/...ary/index.html

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The head of a leading conservative group said Sunday
that Sen. Arlen Specter "is a big-time problem" and that his quest to
serve as chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee "must be derailed."

"Senator Specter is a big-time problem for us," Dobson said on ABC's
"This Week." He said Specter had made "one of the most foolish and
ill-considered comments that a politician has made in a long time."

Dobson added, "There are many, many members of that committee that are
more qualified and less of a problem than Senator Specter."

I was about to say that a distressing trend of "take no prisoners" politics
has developed over the last several years, but I think little has changed.
Some of the differences of the past were settled by duels. Or wars...

"Pete Dimsman" wrote in message
...


Michael McKelvy wrote:


How is it you figure we're the stupid ones when we have a growing economy
and most of the rest of the world is stagnate?

Umm, I think a fact check is in order.


By comparison.

How is it we're stupid when we have the highest homeownership levels in
the world?

Parroting the Bush soundbites are you?

Reciting actual fact.

This certainly does not tell the
whole story.

It tells a big chunk of it. Home ownership translates into wealth.

We have a higher level of debt in this home "ownership"
than any other time in our history, and certainly higher than any other
nation.

We have bigger houses for the money.

"Pete Dimsman" wrote in message
...
This is how the conservatives treat those who dare to voice a different
viewpoint, even those in their own party. Jolly good, ey?


The problem is he's not all that conservative. Remember Jim Jeffords? He
was supposed to be a Republican, until he sold his sould to Daschle.


"Conservative leader targets Specter"
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/...ary/index.html

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The head of a leading conservative group said Sunday
that Sen. Arlen Specter "is a big-time problem" and that his quest to
serve as chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee "must be derailed."

"Senator Specter is a big-time problem for us," Dobson said on ABC's "This
Week." He said Specter had made "one of the most foolish and
ill-considered comments that a politician has made in a long time."

Dobson added, "There are many, many members of that committee that are
more qualified and less of a problem than Senator Specter."

Save your souls people, and live with love. When we're gone at the
end, there will be no money, no houses, no power, nothing material...
so what's the point to argue about who's more powerful or who's
wealthier? We're just lonely mortal beings and we need to understand
and respect each other. Find the balance, the best of our cultures...
then maybe we'll stop hating each other because of our differences.
U.S.A is a great country and i respect their people and their choices
and admire their determination and spirit to achieve their goals ...
and admire the Tibetan Monks as well as they have a kind a peace and
wisdom so pure and hard to find. I hope i'd never worship money,
arrogance, power... maybe we'll be happier if we put aside our excited
egos...

I know this is an audio forum and i enjoy audio very very much... but
feel that my humble contribution may help to avoid offenses which are
so difficult to repair.

Have a nice week

Rocco.

Michael McKelvy wrote:


This certainly does not tell the

whole story.


It tells a big chunk of it. Home ownership translates into wealth.

Not if the home fail to continue to rise in value and people really have
no equity in those homes.

We have a higher level of debt in this home "ownership"

than any other time in our history, and certainly higher than any other
nation.


We have bigger houses for the money.

No we don't. The price of homes has been rising even for the same size
homes.

As interest rates rise, watch for foreclosures and bankruptcies to reach
epidemic levels.

There already IS an epidemic in foreclosures(up 40% since 2000) & bankruptcies(up a whole lot
too, since 2000).

--
Stephen Sank, Owner & Ribbon Mic Restorer
Talking Dog Transducer Company
http://stephensank.com
5517 Carmelita Drive N.E.
Albuquerque, New Mexico [87111]
505-332-0336
Auth. Nakamichi & McIntosh servicer
Payments preferred through Paypal.com
"Pete Dimsman" wrote in message ...


Michael McKelvy wrote:


This certainly does not tell the

whole story.


It tells a big chunk of it. Home ownership translates into wealth.

Not if the home fail to continue to rise in value and people really have
no equity in those homes.

We have a higher level of debt in this home "ownership"

than any other time in our history, and certainly higher than any other
nation.


We have bigger houses for the money.

No we don't. The price of homes has been rising even for the same size
homes.

As interest rates rise, watch for foreclosures and bankruptcies to reach
epidemic levels.

"Pete Dimsman" wrote in message
...


Michael McKelvy wrote:


This certainly does not tell the

whole story.


It tells a big chunk of it. Home ownership translates into wealth.

Not if the home fail to continue to rise in value and people really have
no equity in those homes.

We have a higher level of debt in this home "ownership"

than any other time in our history, and certainly higher than any other
nation.


We have bigger houses for the money.

Compared to Europe.

No we don't. The price of homes has been rising even for the same size
homes.

That's appreciation. My home cost 200K when I bought it and would cost 450K
now.

As interest rates rise, watch for foreclosures and bankruptcies to reach
epidemic levels.

And we'll still have higher home ownership rates than those who criticize
us.

None of this has anything to do with the fact that Europeans criticize us
simply because we don't see things their way.

My personal theory is that they are afraid to see what they know will happen
when some of the Liberal policies are undone and our economy takes off even
more.

Michael McKelvy wrote:


No we don't. The price of homes has been rising even for the same size
homes.


That's appreciation. My home cost 200K when I bought it and would cost 450K
now.

Lets say that is average. Has the average salary gone up by 2.25 times?



My personal theory is that they are afraid to see what they know will happen
when some of the Liberal policies are undone and our economy takes off even
more.

I think we witnessed that for 12 years from 1980 to 1992, and again in
2001-2004.

"Pete Dimsman" wrote in message
...


Michael McKelvy wrote:


No we don't. The price of homes has been rising even for the same size
homes.


That's appreciation. My home cost 200K when I bought it and would cost
450K now.

Lets say that is average. Has the average salary gone up by 2.25 times?


I doubt very mch that is average. I live in Ventura county in S. Calif.

What is making home ownership eaiser around the country is lower interest
rates.


My personal theory is that they are afraid to see what they know will
happen when some of the Liberal policies are undone and our economy takes
off even more.

I think we witnessed that for 12 years from 1980 to 1992, and again in
2001-2004.

We saw what could happen to a certain degree, but we've not had a situation
like we do today for a long, long time. All three branches of Government
dominated by the GOP. They might **** it up for themselves and I hope not,
wealth creation happens best when government screws with people the least.

As long as the Dems continue to alienate most of the biggest voting block in
the country, I don't see them regaining power.

What you saw in 1980 through 1992 was the undoing of the recession that
started during the latter years of the VietNam war and the aggravation of
this by Carter's disastrous policies beginning in 1976. It took over a
decade to turn that around. Hell man, mortgage rates were over 20% when
Reagan took office. Clinton got to ride the gravy train and tried to take
credit for it but it was obvious that he had just inherited a decent economy
which had already started to stagnate under his administration until the
stock market took off after the Republicans took over Congress. Twoard the
end of his administration, the *dotcom* bubble burst and all of the
corporate scandals were happening. Bush inherited a recession and the
terrorist attack almost iced it. That's what the democrats wanted everyone
to forget, but they obviously didn't.

Cheers,

DJ






"Pete Dimsman" wrote in message
...


Michael McKelvy wrote:


No we don't. The price of homes has been rising even for the same size
homes.


That's appreciation. My home cost 200K when I bought it and would cost
450K
now.

Lets say that is average. Has the average salary gone up by 2.25 times?



My personal theory is that they are afraid to see what they know will
happen
when some of the Liberal policies are undone and our economy takes off
even
more.

I think we witnessed that for 12 years from 1980 to 1992, and again in
2001-2004.

Animix wrote:

Hell man, mortgage rates were over 20% when
Reagan took office.

I believe they peaked about 83' or 84'.

"Animix" wrote in message
...
What you saw in 1980 through 1992 was the undoing of the recession that
started during the latter years of the VietNam war and the aggravation of
this by Carter's disastrous policies beginning in 1976. It took over a
decade to turn that around. Hell man, mortgage rates were over 20% when
Reagan took office. Clinton got to ride the gravy train and tried to take
credit for it but it was obvious that he had just inherited a decent
economy
which had already started to stagnate under his administration until the
stock market took off after the Republicans took over Congress.

You're preachin' to the Choir here. I'm well aware of these facts. It
doesn't stop teh Democrats from trying to take credit for it and credit
Clinton policies with the good economyhe had nothing to with.

Twoard the
end of his administration, the *dotcom* bubble burst and all of the
corporate scandals were happening. Bush inherited a recession and the
terrorist attack almost iced it. That's what the democrats wanted everyone
to forget, but they obviously didn't.

Cheers,

DJ

To be fair the Recession didn't really start until after Bush took office,
as the following will show: http://www.nber.org/cycles/recessions.html


Still, it's obvious that Clinton was lying when he said it was the worst
economy in whatever number of years, just as it is obvious that GOP policiy
is responsible, through tax cuts for bringing the economy back after 9/11
dealt it a massive blow. There may bve some point in history where Democrat
policy helped the economy but I am at present unaware of it. Mostly they
take credit for things they had nothing to do with.





"Pete Dimsman" wrote in message
...


Michael McKelvy wrote:


No we don't. The price of homes has been rising even for the same size
homes.


That's appreciation. My home cost 200K when I bought it and would cost
450K
now.

Lets say that is average. Has the average salary gone up by 2.25 times?



My personal theory is that they are afraid to see what they know will
happen
when some of the Liberal policies are undone and our economy takes off
even
more.

I think we witnessed that for 12 years from 1980 to 1992, and again in
2001-2004.

This is how the conservatives treat those who dare to voice a different
viewpoint, even those in their own party. Jolly good, ey?


I've seen quite a bit of name calling, demonizing, etc..from both sides of
late.
I wouldn't generalize half the voters on either side as stupid or dangerous
because there are a few that we feel this way about. And "daring to voice a
difference" works for everyone the same way..you can say whatever you want but
that doesn't mean everyone has to like it or agree.





John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637

On 2004-11-09, Michael McKelvy wrote:

What is making home ownership eaiser around the country is lower interest
rates.

If "interest rates" are a factor, I would submit that not you, but some
bank rather, "owns" your home. Your goal may be "equity" or even
"outright ownership", but as long as you're thinking in terms of
interest, it's inaccurate to represent "ownership" of anything.

In my opinion, I don't "own" something until I have the right to use
deadly force against anyone who attempts to take it away from me. That
doesn't apply, if it happens to be a bank foreclosure or the IRS.

You don't own your house if the bank does. You don't own your car if
GMAC does. You don't own the clothes you're wearing if you haven't paid
off the credit card you bought them with.

"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message news:01Ujd.5173


That's appreciation. My home cost 200K when I bought it and would cost
450K now.

Well you can be satisfied with that, and will get extra brownie-points at
the pearly gates, when those newly-inspired terrorists release the fatal
virii, or the tides rises a little aboce ventura....


None of this has anything to do with the fact that Europeans criticize us
simply because we don't see things their way.

Dude, it ain't 'the Europeans'. It's practically the whole world, apart
from the occasional sycophants..

geoff

Pete Dimsman wrote:



Michael McKelvy wrote:


No we don't. The price of homes has been rising even for the same
size homes.


That's appreciation. My home cost 200K when I bought it and would
cost 450K now.


Lets say that is average. Has the average salary gone up by 2.25 times?

1.5x is the average. It's plainly not keeping pace.

Pete Dimsman wrote:



Michael McKelvy wrote:


No we don't. The price of homes has been rising even for the same
size homes.


That's appreciation. My home cost 200K when I bought it and would
cost 450K now.


Lets say that is average. Has the average salary gone up by 2.25 times?

1.5x is the average. It's plainly not keeping pace.

"Pete Dimsman" wrote in message
...

My personal theory is that they are afraid to see what they know will
happen
when some of the Liberal policies are undone and our economy takes off
even
more.

I think we witnessed that for 12 years from 1980 to 1992, and again in
2001-2004.

Surrendering to cognitive dissonance: - "It's a lot easier than thinking":

http://www.democraticunderground.com...1/20_frat.html

"Pete Dimsman" wrote in message
...

My personal theory is that they are afraid to see what they know will
happen
when some of the Liberal policies are undone and our economy takes off
even
more.

I think we witnessed that for 12 years from 1980 to 1992, and again in
2001-2004.

Surrendering to cognitive dissonance: - "It's a lot easier than thinking":

http://www.democraticunderground.com...1/20_frat.html