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#41
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carless driving in NJ, was I at fault ?
In article ,
Helmet Head wrote: On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 09:08:13 -0500, (Matthew Russotto) wrote: In article , Ginny wrote: Why? Why did you think that, especially when you saw NO turn signal? Err, because a common reason people move to the left of the lane is to make a left turn. Correct, but without a signal (sometimes even with) it's hard to anticipate what a slowing vehicle might do, regardless of where they are in the lane. I find the signals to be an unreliable indicator in any case. If someone moves to the left, slows (whether or not they brake), and there's a logical place for them to make a left turn, I'll tentatively assume that's what they're up to. -- Matthew T. Russotto "Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice, and moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue." But extreme restriction of liberty in pursuit of a modicum of security is a very expensive vice. |
#43
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carless driving in NJ, was I at fault ?
Ginny wrote:
Marc wrote: Ginny wrote: The smashed helmet and bent tire on the bike can be seen at http://www.ginnysanchez.com/pix/bike.JPG . She was bumped by a car that popped up onto the SIDEWALK because he went too far to the right in an effort to pass a car turning left. So passing on the right and speeding were irrelevant. Re-read the above. He went too far to the right, to pass a car making a left. If he went too far to the right to pass someone, then he was **passing on the right** which makes it relevant. If he were NOT passing on the right, he would not have wound up on the sidewalk. And it is speed related because if he was stopped, he couldn't have gone up on the curb. And it is drinking related because if he was drinking in the local bar, rather than driving, he wouldn't have been on the road. The one and only problem was that he was obviously incapable of controlling his vehicle. I suspect that he didn't intend to drive up on the sidewalk. What maneuver he was attempting and whether it was legal is irrelevant to the fact that if he were competent, he would have been able to maintain control of his vehicle. Marc For email, remove the first "y" of "whineryy" |
#44
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carless driving in NJ, was I at fault ?
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#45
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carless driving in NJ, was I at fault ?
Marc wrote in message . ..
(Bill) wrote: A week ago, I was given a careless driving ticket in NJ. I wonder whether I was at fault or whether I should fight it in court. If you get a lawyer and present your case properly in court (and the law is on your side) you should have no trouble Uh, yes he will. If you get a ticket from a NJ cop, you are guilty. Don;t even bother setting a court date. Just mail in your fine and save the hassle & remember in NJ a summons means "guilty". |
#46
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carless driving in NJ, was I at fault ?
Daniel Snooks wrote:
Bill wrote Was I truely at fault ? Yes. But it is questionable if the charge should be "careless". There seems to be a lot of back and forth in this thread about whether or not the other driver was partially at fault. She was not at fault ... even partially. You can NOT pass someone on the right (within the same lane). It doesn't matter if they have come to a complete stop, and they have their left turn signal on, you still must not pass on the right. If there is more then one lane, then it is ok. In the scenario you describe, the other driver was still driving on your side of the road (albeit at the extreme left of the lane) which clearly puts you at fault for pulling up beside her. What I did when faced with an Ontario careless driving charge in 1993 was get the court to reduce it to unsafe lane change, which was fewer points. This happened pretty much no questions asked with a lawyer present. There is no way insurance will not go up in these situations however, a much greater payout than the fine itself. My dad was a bit upset about his rates considering I was 18 at the time. Should I even try to go to court ? Yes. If you can get the charge reduced it will be worth it. What will happen if I plea "not guilty" but decide to pay the fine later ? No idea, I don't live in NJ. Where I am (Toronto) if I plead not guilty and then pay the fine anyways (within the set time limit) nothing happens. What is the impact of a careless driving ticket ? Probably up to the judge ... not sure what the min and max sentences are. |
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carless driving in NJ, was I at fault ?
On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 07:25:14 -0700, Scott in Aztlan
wrote: That is your right under the law. It's unfortunate that you have chosen to waste the taxpayers' money fighting a ticket you clearly deserve, but that's your prerogative. It's YOUR money, not the taxpayers'. YOU pay court costs (usu. whether you bother to attend court or not), not the taxpayer. -- ricardo, ex-euroslav vancouver bc canada msg. typed using dvorak system so excuse all ytops! |
#48
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carless driving in NJ, was I at fault ?
It has been many, many years since I have had a ticket or been in a
courtroom, but IIRC the "court costs" amount was ridiculously low, on the order of $15 - $30. Have the fees gone up significantly since then? Probably not, but seeing as he pays taxes just as much as your arrogant ass it's his right to contest the ticket. Dick. Paul Vina |
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carless driving in NJ, was I at fault ?
On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 06:40:13 -0700, Scott in Aztlan
wrote: Are court costs completely recovered by the fees you pay? The salary of the judge, the bailiff, and all the other people who process your case? What about the salary of the police officer who has to come in and testify? Well that's all sine qua non - the ossifer KNOWS he's gonna hafta come in and testify (or phone/mail in his testimony, depending on where you're at - sigh). Should he not be overly enamored by this prospect, he can always issue a warning instead of a tix, should he so desire. It has been many, many years since I have had a ticket or been in a courtroom, but IIRC the "court costs" amount was ridiculously low, on the order of $15 - $30. Have the fees gone up significantly since then? Methinks they kinda have! :{ -- ricardo, ex-euroslav vancouver bc canada for liability purposes: I *always* obey the law. '89 grand am le, garaged; '91 mx6 gt msg. typed using dvorak system so excuse all ytops! |
#50
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carless driving in NJ, was I at fault ?
On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 15:14:48 -0700, Scott in Aztlan
wrote: The point is, it's part of his job to appear in court to testify, and his salary is paid by TAXES, not the "court costs" fee that gets tacked on to your fine. If the OP does not fight the ticket, then that money won't be wasted on his futile effort. And if the phuzziewuzzie donna like it, (s)he doesn't even necessarily hafta write the tix in the first instance, that's the point. And yes, giving testimony *is* a part of the phuzziewuzzie's job. OK, Mr. Voice-of-Experience, what do they charge you for "curt costs" nowadays? I'm afraid I can't really help you there, 'cos court fees are normally included in the "face value" of the tix, along with the not always so aptly named "victim surcharge levy". But as a consequence, ticket fines are certainly a lot higher now than they used to be. -- ricardo, ex-euroslav vancouver bc canada for liability purposes: I *always* obey the law. '89 grand am le, garaged; '91 mx6 gt msg. typed using dvorak system so excuse all ytops! |
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carless driving in NJ, was I at fault ?
On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 21:27:14 -0400, 127.0.0.1 wrote:
wrong again, in NJ if you appear in court and plead not guilty and then lose, additional court costs are added to the ticket That practice has already been declared illegal (unconstitutional) here. -- ricardo, ex-euroslav vancouver bc canada msg. typed using dvorak system so excuse all ytops! |
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carless driving in NJ, was I at fault ?
"Ricardo" wrote in message news:3f888419.7829786@news... On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 15:14:48 -0700, Scott in Aztlan wrote: The point is, it's part of his job to appear in court to testify, and his salary is paid by TAXES, not the "court costs" fee that gets tacked on to your fine. If the OP does not fight the ticket, then that money won't be wasted on his futile effort. And if the phuzziewuzzie donna like it, (s)he doesn't even necessarily hafta write the tix in the first instance, that's the point. And yes, giving testimony *is* a part of the phuzziewuzzie's job. And the "court fees" go into the general operating budget for the jurisdiction where the offense occurred. And the next budget cycle, those fees along with other revenues generated go to pay for all the nice things we want our governments to give us. The officer testifying in traffic court is usually compensated for the addtional time needed to do so as it invariably occurs on his days off. While tesifying is part of the job, the time needed for it is not covered in the normal salary. If anyone has a problem with paying court fees that pay for the officer to come in and testify.....well, all you have to do is follow the little numbers on the signs alongside the road. |
#53
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carless driving in NJ, was I at fault ?
Why is it illegal to swing wide? Many driveways, especially in crowded
areas, are quite narrow and it is impossible to turn into them unless you go a bit wide. So for these narrow driveways, the only practicle way to enter them is by going to the left first and then turning right. Of couse, you should have your right turn signal on to make sure the drivers behind you understand what you are doing. I guess some people apply the techniques of driving a SUV/truck to driving a sedan, perhaps out of subconscious habit. They swing out right first before turning left and vice-versa. I am apprehensive they'll side-swipe me in an adjacent lane. |
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carless driving in NJ, was I at fault ?
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#55
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carless driving in NJ, was I at fault ?
On 6 Oct 2003 22:02:50 -0700, (Bill)
Carless driving would be golfing, woudn't it? |
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carless driving in NJ, was I at fault ?
"Al Lewis" wrote in message ... On 6 Oct 2003 22:02:50 -0700, (Bill) Carless driving would be golfing, woudn't it? Only if you don't make the fairway... -= swatcop =- "If it wasn't for stupid people I'd be unemployed." |
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carless driving in NJ, was I at fault ?
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carless driving in NJ, was I at fault ?
...a vehicle may use the roadway to make a right turn leaving that roadway
and not return to the original traffic flow. Driving on the shoulder for a longer period of time may be a violation (Reckless). According to your Letter B... If it appeared you were making a right turn then the ofcr would be wrong in writing that in all the states I ever worked with. Now, any skid marks listed in Lett C, Is really bad news. Judges do not like a Not Guilty with a physical evidence of a violation at the scene. "Al Lewis" wrote in message ... On 9 Oct 2003 20:39:43 -0700, (Bill) A few clarifications. A. I have no intention to get off easy. It may cost me more financially to go to court. However, I felt that my car was hit and it is not fair that I have to pay a fine (I know life is never fair :-( ). I just could not figure out what went wrong. Hence my question was whether I was at fault. Thanx to Mattew Russotto pointing out that a driver should stay as close to the right curb as possible when making right turn. B. I did not try to pass her on the right side. At least I did not have the chance yet. Even when the officer handed me the ticket, he also said that he did not think I was trying to pass her on the right. C. I know I was not going too fast because of the skid mark, but I think because of skid mark, the officer concluded that I was driving too fast. I could not find any information on what a reasonable length of skid mark should be. After reading reading the discussion, I decided to plea not guilty. I have not decided whether to get an attorney. In the worst case, I pay the fine, have two points and higher insurance. I just do not feel right to plea guilty if I was not at fault in particular I was nearly hurt. It doesn't matter - you were either going too fast, already passing her on the right, or both. Same thing happened to me, except the little Honda that hit my rear wheel was pretty bad off, while damage to my car was minimal (replace hubcap). He was clearly at fault. The only difference was, I was turning into a parking lot. Thanx again. BW (Bill) wrote in message . com... A week ago, I was given a careless driving ticket in NJ. I wonder whether I was at fault or whether I should fight it in court. It was a weekend on a two lane residential street (one lane each way). The lane is so wide that a bus and a car can drive side by side. The speed requirement is 35 miles/hr. I followed a car which stayed close to the left side of the road and I stayed close to the right thinking that the drive might left. Suddenly I saw the car in front trying to make a right turn without a right turn signal. I immediately swerve and tried to stop my car, but my driver side mirror hit her passenger side mirror. It turned out that she was trying to make a right turn to her home. | | | | ______| | -- this is her driveway /|| ______ | her car hit my car | | She came out from her car and her neighbour came out from her house screaming at me that I was not supposed to pass her on the right side which I was not. However, when the police came, we could see that there was a skid mark of more than car'slength, and it was obvious that I was trying to stop. But the police gave me a carless driving ticket claiming that I was either driving too fast or following too close. In the police report, she claimed that she had the right turn signal on. I am quite sure that she did not, in fact, I do not think she even had the brake light on. During a conversation with one of the officers at the scene, he said that how could someone make a turn into her driveway without a brake. Later I did an experiement at home and confirmed that I can turn into my driveway without using a brake if I stay far left enough. From what I search from the web, Carless driving in NJ reads "A person who drives a vehicle carelessly, or without due caution and circumspection, in a manner so as to endanger, or be likely to endanger, a person or property, shall be guilty of careless driving." Was I truely at fault ? Should I even try to go to court ? What will happen if I plea "not guilty" but decide to pay the fine later ? do I still have to pay the court fee ? What is the impact of a careless driving ticket ? I know I have to pay $78 and possibily 2 points and higher insurance. thanx for the advice. BW |
#59
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carless driving in NJ, was I at fault ?
Jesus, is this thread still active?!?!?! Let it go.
Paul Vina "G R Jenks" wrote in message news:eRJpb.3295$7B2.2768@fed1read04... ..a vehicle may use the roadway to make a right turn leaving that roadway and not return to the original traffic flow. Driving on the shoulder for a longer period of time may be a violation (Reckless). According to your Letter B... If it appeared you were making a right turn then the ofcr would be wrong in writing that in all the states I ever worked with. Now, any skid marks listed in Lett C, Is really bad news. Judges do not like a Not Guilty with a physical evidence of a violation at the scene. "Al Lewis" wrote in message ... On 9 Oct 2003 20:39:43 -0700, (Bill) A few clarifications. A. I have no intention to get off easy. It may cost me more financially to go to court. However, I felt that my car was hit and it is not fair that I have to pay a fine (I know life is never fair :-( ). I just could not figure out what went wrong. Hence my question was whether I was at fault. Thanx to Mattew Russotto pointing out that a driver should stay as close to the right curb as possible when making right turn. B. I did not try to pass her on the right side. At least I did not have the chance yet. Even when the officer handed me the ticket, he also said that he did not think I was trying to pass her on the right. C. I know I was not going too fast because of the skid mark, but I think because of skid mark, the officer concluded that I was driving too fast. I could not find any information on what a reasonable length of skid mark should be. After reading reading the discussion, I decided to plea not guilty. I have not decided whether to get an attorney. In the worst case, I pay the fine, have two points and higher insurance. I just do not feel right to plea guilty if I was not at fault in particular I was nearly hurt. It doesn't matter - you were either going too fast, already passing her on the right, or both. Same thing happened to me, except the little Honda that hit my rear wheel was pretty bad off, while damage to my car was minimal (replace hubcap). He was clearly at fault. The only difference was, I was turning into a parking lot. Thanx again. BW (Bill) wrote in message . com... A week ago, I was given a careless driving ticket in NJ. I wonder whether I was at fault or whether I should fight it in court. It was a weekend on a two lane residential street (one lane each way). The lane is so wide that a bus and a car can drive side by side. The speed requirement is 35 miles/hr. I followed a car which stayed close to the left side of the road and I stayed close to the right thinking that the drive might left. Suddenly I saw the car in front trying to make a right turn without a right turn signal. I immediately swerve and tried to stop my car, but my driver side mirror hit her passenger side mirror. It turned out that she was trying to make a right turn to her home. | | | | ______| | -- this is her driveway /|| ______ | her car hit my car | | She came out from her car and her neighbour came out from her house screaming at me that I was not supposed to pass her on the right side which I was not. However, when the police came, we could see that there was a skid mark of more than car'slength, and it was obvious that I was trying to stop. But the police gave me a carless driving ticket claiming that I was either driving too fast or following too close. In the police report, she claimed that she had the right turn signal on. I am quite sure that she did not, in fact, I do not think she even had the brake light on. During a conversation with one of the officers at the scene, he said that how could someone make a turn into her driveway without a brake. Later I did an experiement at home and confirmed that I can turn into my driveway without using a brake if I stay far left enough. From what I search from the web, Carless driving in NJ reads "A person who drives a vehicle carelessly, or without due caution and circumspection, in a manner so as to endanger, or be likely to endanger, a person or property, shall be guilty of careless driving." Was I truely at fault ? Should I even try to go to court ? What will happen if I plea "not guilty" but decide to pay the fine later ? do I still have to pay the court fee ? What is the impact of a careless driving ticket ? I know I have to pay $78 and possibily 2 points and higher insurance. thanx for the advice. BW |
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