[D O'Heare]

I'm about to go shopping for a hearing test, and am wondering what I ought
to be asking for. I intend to call up the doctors that do that sort of
thing here, and ask detailed questions.

I know that many, maybe most, tests simply check response in octaves, and
don't test above 8kHz or below 250Hz (I *think* that's right). I'd like to
know the correct names for the sorts of tests that go beyond those ranges
and test with finer gradations.

I'd also like to know what other specific things I should ask about, and
what sorts of things to avoid.

FWIW, I'm in Ontario in Canada, so I'm not *quite* as worried about HMOs and
insurance stuff as I would be if I was in the US.

And no, I'm not really worried about my hearing degrading. Well, I do worry
about it, but that's not why I'm looking for the info. I just want to make
sure that I'm still hearing as well as I think I am.

Thanks,

Dave O'H
dave.oheareATgmail.com

[Mike]

In article ,
"D O'Heare" wrote:

I'm about to go shopping for a hearing test, and am wondering what I ought
to be asking for. I intend to call up the doctors that do that sort of
thing here, and ask detailed questions.

I know that many, maybe most, tests simply check response in octaves, and
don't test above 8kHz or below 250Hz (I *think* that's right). I'd like to
know the correct names for the sorts of tests that go beyond those ranges
and test with finer gradations.

This is fun .... use headphones for best results:
http://tinyurl.com/ytx5n5

[Mike Rivers]

D O'Heare wrote:
I'm about to go shopping for a hearing test, and am wondering what I
ought to be asking for. I intend to call up the doctors that do that
sort of thing here, and ask detailed questions.

You want to tell him that you're an audio engineer and want to know how
your ears
respond over the full audio range, not just that you're able to
understand speech as
well as a "normal" person. You'll want to have measurements actually
made inside
your ear, not just push a button when you hear a tone.


--
If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach
me he
double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo -- I'm really Mike Rivers
)

[Roy W. Rising[_2_]]

Mike wrote:
In article ,
"D O'Heare" wrote:

I'm about to go shopping for a hearing test, and am wondering what I
ought to be asking for. I intend to call up the doctors that do that
sort of thing here, and ask detailed questions.

I know that many, maybe most, tests simply check response in octaves,
and don't test above 8kHz or below 250Hz (I *think* that's right). I'd
like to know the correct names for the sorts of tests that go beyond
those ranges and test with finer gradations.

This is fun .... use headphones for best results:
http://tinyurl.com/ytx5n5

Thanks for the link. I'm 66 and still hear 18KHz ... not as well as I used
to, but it's there. 14KHz is "strong" and my hearing rolls off above that.
Now my ears are ringing! Beware of loud HF tones!

--
~ Roy
"If you notice the sound, it's wrong!"

[Tobiah]

You'll want to have measurements actually
made inside
your ear, not just push a button when you hear a tone.

It doesn't seem as important to me that sound reached
the eardrum as it would be that a psychological sensory
experience was achieved.

[Chris Whealy]

Tobiah wrote:
You'll want to have measurements actually
made inside
your ear, not just push a button when you hear a tone.


It doesn't seem as important to me that sound reached
the eardrum as it would be that a psychological sensory
experience was achieved.

How can a psychological sensory experience be achieved if the sound
doesn't reach the ear drum?

Chris W

--
The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long,
But the words of the wise are quiet and few.
---

[[email protected]]

"D O'Heare" writes:

I'm about to go shopping for a hearing test, and am wondering what I ought to
be asking for. I intend to call up the doctors that do that sort of thing
here, and ask detailed questions.

I know that many, maybe most, tests simply check response in octaves, and
don't test above 8kHz or below 250Hz (I *think* that's right). I'd like to
know the correct names for the sorts of tests that go beyond those ranges and
test with finer gradations.

I'd also like to know what other specific things I should ask about, and what
sorts of things to avoid.

FWIW, I'm in Ontario in Canada, so I'm not *quite* as worried about HMOs and
insurance stuff as I would be if I was in the US.

And no, I'm not really worried about my hearing degrading. Well, I do worry
about it, but that's not why I'm looking for the info. I just want to make
sure that I'm still hearing as well as I think I am.

Thanks,

Dave O'H
dave.oheareATgmail.com

I've had my hearing tested. Something like $60 I think (in Ontario, Canada).
The test up to 10kHz only, but the range 2-6k is where most (noise induced)
hearing loss occurs. Why? Well, they told me that the ear canal emphasizes
these frequencies, so they are the first to get damage when you're hit with
loud broadband noise. Also a lot of common noises, like drills, grinders,
etc, hit this range hard.

I wish I had done this earlier, because I did have some loss. To any folks
out there, please wear earplugs (like Etymotic) whenever at shows or when
around loud sounds (machinery, etc).

Richard

[Nick Delonas[_2_]]

In article , rwrising@dsl[omit]
extreme.com says...

Thanks for the link. I'm 66 and still hear 18KHz ... not as well as I used
to, but it's there. 14KHz is "strong" and my hearing rolls off above that.
Now my ears are ringing! Beware of loud HF tones!



Wow! I think you are VERY unusual. Congrats! I'm envious.

I've taken good care of my ears over the years, but, now at 51, I
couldn't hear anything above 14K. I was just barely able to hear the
14K tone. I could hear the 13K tone just fine though.

My daughter, 16, could hear all the tones clearly.

--Nick

[John Slater]

On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 15:41:26 -0500, Nick Delonas
wrote:

In article , rwrising@dsl[omit]
extreme.com says...

Thanks for the link. I'm 66 and still hear 18KHz ... not as well as I used
to, but it's there. 14KHz is "strong" and my hearing rolls off above that.
Now my ears are ringing! Beware of loud HF tones!



Wow! I think you are VERY unusual. Congrats! I'm envious.

I've taken good care of my ears over the years, but, now at 51, I
couldn't hear anything above 14K. I was just barely able to hear the
14K tone. I could hear the 13K tone just fine though.

My daughter, 16, could hear all the tones clearly.

--Nick

I have tinnitus in both ears as well as noise induced hearing
loss which is the result of working in very noisy computer rooms
for 25+ years. They tell me I have about 35db drop around 6-8k or
so.

I am 49 years old and I was able to hear the 16k tone very
faintly at very low volume using headphones.

As a musician (keyboards) it hasn't effected me much as far as I
can tell although when the tinnitus is roaring, like just before
a change in weather or in a stressful environment, the beat
frequency between my tinnitus ring (about 10k) and the music,
especially pure tones on the piano, can be a little annoying.

Best of luck to you!

[Steve King]

"John Slater" wrote in message
...
| On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 15:41:26 -0500, Nick Delonas
| wrote:
|
| In article , rwrising@dsl[omit]
| extreme.com says...
|
| Thanks for the link. I'm 66 and still hear 18KHz ... not as well as I
used
| to, but it's there. 14KHz is "strong" and my hearing rolls off above
that.
| Now my ears are ringing! Beware of loud HF tones!
|
|
|
| Wow! I think you are VERY unusual. Congrats! I'm envious.
|
| I've taken good care of my ears over the years, but, now at 51, I
| couldn't hear anything above 14K. I was just barely able to hear the
| 14K tone. I could hear the 13K tone just fine though.
|
| My daughter, 16, could hear all the tones clearly.
|
| --Nick
|
| I have tinnitus in both ears as well as noise induced hearing
| loss which is the result of working in very noisy computer rooms
| for 25+ years. They tell me I have about 35db drop around 6-8k or
| so.
|
| I am 49 years old and I was able to hear the 16k tone very
| faintly at very low volume using headphones.
|
| As a musician (keyboards) it hasn't effected me much as far as I
| can tell although when the tinnitus is roaring, like just before
| a change in weather or in a stressful environment, the beat
| frequency between my tinnitus ring (about 10k) and the music,
| especially pure tones on the piano, can be a little annoying.
|
| Best of luck to you!

I was able to hear 13K easily. 14K was just barely there. Everything above
that created a beat tone with my tinnitus, I guess. I'm 70 with lots of
rock 'n roll mixing in my past. I blame EV 605, 604 and A7 monitors. When
I first started, the practice was to push the monitors way too loud. Later
monitors were smoother and we turned things down. If I could stick a mic in
my ear, I'll bet I could use the tinnitus as a 10K source to align tape
machines... if I still had tape machines;-)

Steve King

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

Roy W. Rising wrote:

This is fun .... use headphones for best results:
http://tinyurl.com/ytx5n5

Thanks for the link. I'm 66 and still hear 18KHz ... not as well as
I used to, but it's there. 14KHz is "strong" and my hearing rolls
off above that. Now my ears are ringing! Beware of loud HF tones!

Beware indeed. This needs a couple of teaspoonfuls of common sense. First of
all, an audiogram is NOT a frequency respone measurement, it is a THESHOLD
measurement.

Stuff some 5 dB above the threshold is likely to be detected with
confidence, stuff at the threshold some of the time and stuff below the
threshold not at all ... erm, unless of course it is riding on top of a
nearby audio band. Which is to say that someone unable to hear 15 kHz at a
sane level on its own will be well and truly able to hear it in a musical
context.

The sense of hearing does not have a frequency response per se, it has an
auto correlator that analyzes and compensates for deviations from what it
knows is a ""probable"" energy distribution, this because it ""knows"" that
the performance of the ears is wildly fluctuation. A bonus from this is the
ability to listen for audio linearity on unlinear loudspeakers. The flip
side is that one needs to be able to compare sources instantly after
listening for fairly short time for a comparison to be possible, otherwise
it is the effects of a response deviation that is heard, say a temporal
smear around a resonance, but not the difference in frequency response per
se.

Just my opinion, perhaps someone knows the facts of perception ... or
perhaps not. The temporal resolution and the ability to hear small amounts
of delayed resonance is in my opinion a much underestimated quality of the
sense of hearing.

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Richard Crowley]

"Chris Whealy" wrote ...
Tobiah wrote:
You'll want to have measurements actually made inside
your ear, not just push a button when you hear a tone.


It doesn't seem as important to me that sound reached
the eardrum as it would be that a psychological sensory
experience was achieved.

How can a psychological sensory experience be achieved if the sound
doesn't reach the ear drum?

How can there be ANY place in your ear canal where you CAN
put any kind of sensor, but where sound CANNOT reach?
Something about that doesn't make sense on a very basic
physical level.

Besides, what difference does it make what my outer-ear
frequency response is? The only thing that counts is what
reaches my eardrum and is transduced into information into
my brain.

[John Slater]

On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 00:00:39 +0100, "Peter Larsen"
wrote:

Roy W. Rising wrote:

This is fun .... use headphones for best results:
http://tinyurl.com/ytx5n5

Thanks for the link. I'm 66 and still hear 18KHz ... not as well as
I used to, but it's there. 14KHz is "strong" and my hearing rolls
off above that. Now my ears are ringing! Beware of loud HF tones!

Beware indeed. This needs a couple of teaspoonfuls of common sense. First of
all, an audiogram is NOT a frequency respone measurement, it is a THESHOLD
measurement.
snip-

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

That is correct Peter. They explained this to me when they did my
test last year.
One other thing I would suggest is that the OP find a specialist
that has modern, up to date equipment and a very good sound proof
booth.
The first time I took the test, I got the feeling I was being
hooked up to some of the stuff you see in the old Frankenstein
movies.
I could hear noise from traffic outside even when in the booth.
I did miserable on that test.

The next time I found a different specialist who had every
sophisticated equipment including a B&K microphone in the booth,
in the ear monitors for the test and so forth. I couldn't hear a
thing outside the booth.

I did much better on that test although the frequencies where I
have my problem were about the same.

[[email protected]]

I had a similar but opposite experience. I had a hearing test and
could also hear sounds outside of the booth... the person administering
the test! In other words, I could hear her speaking to me through the
walls even with her amplifier turned all the way off. I guess by her
measurement, I had infinite hearing! As far as decibals, my was 18K+
even at 45 years old. Doctor said that was rare.

John Slater wrote:
: On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 00:00:39 +0100, "Peter Larsen"
: wrote:

: Roy W. Rising wrote:
:
: This is fun .... use headphones for best results:
: http://tinyurl.com/ytx5n5
:
: Thanks for the link. I'm 66 and still hear 18KHz ... not as well as
: I used to, but it's there. 14KHz is "strong" and my hearing rolls
: off above that. Now my ears are ringing! Beware of loud HF tones!
:
: Beware indeed. This needs a couple of teaspoonfuls of common sense. First of
: all, an audiogram is NOT a frequency respone measurement, it is a THESHOLD
: measurement.
: snip-

: Kind regards
:
: Peter Larsen

: That is correct Peter. They explained this to me when they did my
: test last year.
: One other thing I would suggest is that the OP find a specialist
: that has modern, up to date equipment and a very good sound proof
: booth.
: The first time I took the test, I got the feeling I was being
: hooked up to some of the stuff you see in the old Frankenstein
: movies.
: I could hear noise from traffic outside even when in the booth.
: I did miserable on that test.

: The next time I found a different specialist who had every
: sophisticated equipment including a B&K microphone in the booth,
: in the ear monitors for the test and so forth. I couldn't hear a
: thing outside the booth.

: I did much better on that test although the frequencies where I
: have my problem were about the same.

[Scott Dorsey]

D O'Heare wrote:

I know that many, maybe most, tests simply check response in octaves, and
don't test above 8kHz or below 250Hz (I *think* that's right). I'd like to
know the correct names for the sorts of tests that go beyond those ranges
and test with finer gradations.

I'd also like to know what other specific things I should ask about, and
what sorts of things to avoid.

FWIW, I'm in Ontario in Canada, so I'm not *quite* as worried about HMOs and
insurance stuff as I would be if I was in the US.

It's very hard to do testing above 8 KC or so because of diffraction issues.
The House Ear Institute in LA can do it... I think there is a clinic in
Germany that can routinely do it as well.

There are also a lot of hearing problems that don't show up on threshold
tests.

And no, I'm not really worried about my hearing degrading. Well, I do worry
about it, but that's not why I'm looking for the info. I just want to make
sure that I'm still hearing as well as I think I am.

Just get a standard threshold audiogram, and keep getting one every year,
and look at the trends. If you really do want to get thresholds above 8 KC,
contact the House Ear Institute and see if there is any place in Canada that
might be able to do it.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[D O'Heare]

"Mike" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"D O'Heare" wrote:

I'm about to go shopping for a hearing test,
[SNIP]

This is fun .... use headphones for best results:
http://tinyurl.com/ytx5n5

Hmm. I'm the original poster, and I could hear all the tones clearly, BUT
.... the 18kHz tone sounded lower in pitch than the 17k. I strongly suspect
anomalies in my cheapie Koss PortaPRO phones.

Now, where did I leave my AKGs....

Dave, rooting aroung in piles of boxes.