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#1
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What is your opinion?
Well, I managed to introduce a lot of controversy (and even start a couple
of fights) with my post about the infamous Behringer article. Now I give you this video to ponder. What do you think of the school. I must admit I am a big fan. http://www.berklee.edu/cgi-bin/php/a...sions/Berklee- 256.mov&w=320&h=260 Todd |
#2
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Todd McFadden wrote:
Well, I managed to introduce a lot of controversy (and even start a couple of fights) with my post about the infamous Behringer article. Now I give you this video to ponder. What do you think of the school. I must admit I am a big fan. http://www.berklee.edu/cgi-bin/php/a...sions/Berklee- 256.mov&w=320&h=260 Todd Berklee? Never heard of it. -Bill P.S. Berkeley yes |
#3
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Berklee? Never heard of it.
Located in Boston. Has a decent reputation from what I've heard; it's not a rip-off of Berkley despite the similarity of names. I've gone to a few performances there (and a few Sonar user-group sessions). Basically, "what I think of it" is that you should do your homework before applying to any school. |
#4
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Hey man,
I actually went and got a Bach. of Music ... Engineering major. I have had an amazing experience there. Beeing surrounded by so many people that are, heart and soul, into all kinds of music really opens your mind and makes you appreciate each other. Even the Profs were actually really into Music, as opposed to the guys that just hang around a college because they couldn't really cut it in the real world. Go ahead and check out some of the guys credits. And as much as the teachers are fairly blunt about the reality of the harchness of the corporate Music industry, it was still an unadulterated spot to really study your art and not think too much about the disappointments and bitterness out there. I didn't feel cheated really, since they really were pretty clear about the whole "money drives everything" reality, but it let me draw a lot of artistic freedom and power that I still need to not get too caught up in all the bull out there, and remember why I got into this thing Music ... I know: a little to poetic for some people that have been bitter for so long, but that is just really what I felt there. The realworld preperation was great in a sense of testing in a microcosm. Berklee has a small "Label" that the students run.But from A&R to producers, artists, players, studios, engineers, royalty dept., everything was done by students. It was a great prep for the realworld. Shows your the money flow, and in a micro-sense who's but is going to be kissed by who. In terms of equipment: We had 3 SSL 4K's, and a bunch of Sony MXR's and 02R's to play around, and dispite the ProTool thing still plenty of Tape around. Here in Nashville I have a heard time finding assistants that still have that part of it together, and usually need a tech to align the machine if I don't do I myself. A lot more outboard gear than I could even comprehend back then ... Noone really told me "how cool of a compressor the 1176 is", but they asked us to compare a lot of gear without any preconceptions. Pultec, Drawmer (yup, lot's of the famous gates;-), Tubetech, Fern, tons of Urei, GML, and a killer Tech crew, run by a rather unsocial, but very nice FREAKIN' GENIUS. You guys would be as entertained as amazed at some of the mods that were done to some of the gear. In terms of DAW's: lots of PT and SonicSolutions. I can truely say that when I started working after school I may have not been the best mixing engineer out there, but at no point did I feel like I was overwhelmed assisting, and soon running a serious session. There is no question that I didn't continue learning a ton in the "real world", but I was well prepared. The other great thing about the school: They MAKE you play your instrument, and take Eartraining, Harmony and Arranging classes for two years (at least) in order to get your Bachelors Degree. You will have no problems reading, transcribing during a session. You get out of it what you put in. There are always duds graduating, and there is even the occasional dud teaching, but if you are really wanting to work and are passionate, there are few limits to Berklee as far as I can see. I also haven't really met anyone (as much as there have to be at least some out there to be realistic ...) who had a bad Berklee experience, but I will leave that up for the masses ;-) Long answer --- sorry. Peace, Ted "Todd McFadden" wrote in message ... Well, I managed to introduce a lot of controversy (and even start a couple of fights) with my post about the infamous Behringer article. Now I give you this video to ponder. What do you think of the school. I must admit I am a big fan. http://www.berklee.edu/cgi-bin/php/a...sions/Berklee- 256.mov&w=320&h=260 Todd |
#6
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Todd McFadden wrote:
Well, I managed to introduce a lot of controversy (and even start a couple of fights) with my post about the infamous Behringer article. Now I give you this video to ponder. What do you think of the school. I must admit I am a big fan. Of Berklee? Well, a couple regular posters here teach there, and at least one fellow is a student there, so they have some representation in the group. They do seem to be a real college, with a more diversified education than a typical conservatory. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#7
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FAME !!!!
I wanna live forever!!! The ad is shocking. I've seen their stuff on line. The courses seem to be well put together. It looks like a pretty serious place. How much is it ? BTW. JS how many of your year are working? |
#8
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Thanks for the responses. My post was really an experiment. I can't reveal
why just yet, but I will in a few weeks. This may have set some sort of record. It is the first set of responses to anything on this newsgroup that appears to be unanimously favorable. That speaks volumes about the school and confirms my thoughts and opinions as well. Again, thanks. You've helped me in ways you'll hear about later. Todd "studiorat" wrote in message ups.com... FAME !!!! I wanna live forever!!! The ad is shocking. I've seen their stuff on line. The courses seem to be well put together. It looks like a pretty serious place. How much is it ? BTW. JS how many of your year are working? |
#9
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#10
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Hey man,
I may have left myself open for that, and I apologize if that is what it came across as. I didn't mean to discount the people that are in the middle of that, but I do have to say that a good number of people around me that are serious about their art in music (be it engineering/production, be it performance) get bitter and frustrated that in the reality of the music biz talent and work do not equate success. Yes, that is true in a lot of places, but I don't think it is quite as radical as in this industry. I have seen people with really serious chops losing a major touring gig to a guy that can truely JUST move around with power chords because dude's got spikier hair, and knows a guy. I have to admit for myself that it is hard to watch some guys get gigs, simply based on politics, and schmusing, while a really great engineer and nice guy, that doesn't self advertise like crazy gets overlooked or when a label has decides (without listening) that a mix from an actually really talented and dedicated guy couldn't possibly be as good as the Lord-Alge mix (respectfully!), because "that is the thing to do with singles". At the other extreme, I don't think that it is "airhead" at all to be desinterested in making bank and going after an artform with a passion even if there is most likely no money to be made, as much as it surely seems to be rediculous to some people. But so far I have found that the NY Jazzer that can hardly pay rent is frequently happier than the Nashville engineer, making good money mixing stuff he/she really couldn't care less about. I am sure that there are plenty people in the middle, although I truthfully have to say that is not something I see a lot during sessions (with the exception of people that are simply making the best of it), but then again I am not claiming to know the whole town. In terms of academia, you are correct --- they are not necessary turning out genius after genius, but there is a "boston arts exchange" program out there (I think that is what it was called), and based on location it makes it easier to take classes at other schools. A lot of buiseness guys took courses at Harvard, and several of us engineers took some courses or night classes at MIT while at school (even some of the Prof's do). Again, you only get out as much as you put in ... but there are plenty opportunities to get a well rounded education if you are looking for one. You still get a Bachelors, and can teach, or move on to a masters. So, I can't honestly see a a good reason a "real" college would have been a better choice for me. Contrary to that though, I have found some doors to open even quicker if you are associated with Berklee. I hope that clears it up a little better. Peace, Ted "Chevdo" wrote in message news:61M_e.314956$on1.196370@clgrps13... In article , says... Hey man, I actually went and got a Bach. of Music ... Engineering major. I have had an amazing experience there. Beeing surrounded by so many people that are, heart and soul, into all kinds of music really opens your mind and makes you appreciate each other. Even the Profs were actually really into Music, as opposed to the guys that just hang around a college because they couldn't really cut it in the real world. Go ahead and check out some of the guys credits. And as much as the teachers are fairly blunt about the reality of the harchness of the corporate Music industry, it was still an unadulterated spot to really study your art and not think too much about the disappointments and bitterness out there. I didn't feel cheated really, since they really were pretty clear about the whole "money drives everything" reality, but it let me draw a lot of artistic freedom and power that I still need to not get too caught up in all the bull out there, and remember why I got into this thing Music ... I know: a little to poetic for some people that have been bitter for so long, but that is just really what I felt there. That's a bit of a false dilemma; be an airhead or be bitter? I remember Berklee soliciting students on usenet over 10 years ago. I considered going that route myself. It's got to be more respectable than the typical recording-schools we have locally, which are little more than schemes to collect student loans from idiots. Still, I figure most 'real' universities have music programs, so I'd do that before going to a music school. Plus since I don't have any student loans I could get one if I ever need it, unlike those who frittered their loans away in their youth at the music or hairdressing school. The realworld preperation was great in a sense of testing in a microcosm. Berklee has a small "Label" that the students run.But from A&R to producers, artists, players, studios, engineers, royalty dept., everything was done by students. It was a great prep for the realworld. Shows your the money flow, and in a micro-sense who's but is going to be kissed by who. In terms of equipment: We had 3 SSL 4K's, and a bunch of Sony MXR's and 02R's to play around, and dispite the ProTool thing still plenty of Tape around. Here in Nashville I have a heard time finding assistants that still have that part of it together, and usually need a tech to align the machine if I don't do I myself. A lot more outboard gear than I could even comprehend back then ... Noone really told me "how cool of a compressor the 1176 is", but they asked us to compare a lot of gear without any preconceptions. Pultec, Drawmer (yup, lot's of the famous gates;-), Tubetech, Fern, tons of Urei, GML, and a killer Tech crew, run by a rather unsocial, but very nice FREAKIN' GENIUS. You guys would be as entertained as amazed at some of the mods that were done to some of the gear. In terms of DAW's: lots of PT and SonicSolutions. I can truely say that when I started working after school I may have not been the best mixing engineer out there, but at no point did I feel like I was overwhelmed assisting, and soon running a serious session. There is no question that I didn't continue learning a ton in the "real world", but I was well prepared. The other great thing about the school: They MAKE you play your instrument, and take Eartraining, Harmony and Arranging classes for two years (at least) in order to get your Bachelors Degree. You will have no problems reading, transcribing during a session. You get out of it what you put in. There are always duds graduating, and there is even the occasional dud teaching, but if you are really wanting to work and are passionate, there are few limits to Berklee as far as I can see. I also haven't really met anyone (as much as there have to be at least some out there to be realistic ...) who had a bad Berklee experience, but I will leave that up for the masses ;-) Long answer --- sorry. Peace, Ted "Todd McFadden" wrote in message om... Well, I managed to introduce a lot of controversy (and even start a couple of fights) with my post about the infamous Behringer article. Now I give you this video to ponder. What do you think of the school. I must admit I am a big fan. http://www.berklee.edu/cgi-bin/php/a...sions/Berklee- 256.mov&w=320&h=260 Todd |
#11
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You need a better rounded music knowledge than. Berklee is one of the
premier music and arts education facilities in the country. -- Roger W. Norman SirMusic Studio http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/ "Captain Slick" wrote in message news:7AG_e.26454$Fh4.14643@trndny03... Todd McFadden wrote: Well, I managed to introduce a lot of controversy (and even start a couple of fights) with my post about the infamous Behringer article. Now I give you this video to ponder. What do you think of the school. I must admit I am a big fan. http://www.berklee.edu/cgi-bin/php/a...sions/Berklee- 256.mov&w=320&h=260 Todd Berklee? Never heard of it. -Bill P.S. Berkeley yes |
#12
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You need a better rounded music knowledge than. Berklee is one of the
premier music and arts education facilities in the country. -- Roger W. Norman SirMusic Studio http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/ "Captain Slick" wrote in message news:7AG_e.26454$Fh4.14643@trndny03... Todd McFadden wrote: Well, I managed to introduce a lot of controversy (and even start a couple of fights) with my post about the infamous Behringer article. Now I give you this video to ponder. What do you think of the school. I must admit I am a big fan. http://www.berklee.edu/cgi-bin/php/a...sions/Berklee- 256.mov&w=320&h=260 Todd Berklee? Never heard of it. -Bill P.S. Berkeley yes |
#13
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Roger W. Norman wrote:
You need a better rounded music knowledge than. Berklee is one of the premier music and arts education facilities in the country. Well, that was my opinion, and that's what the OP asked for. Does everyone else in the group have a better rounded music background than I? Is it a prerequisite knowledge for pro audio? -Bill |
#14
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On Sun, 02 Oct 2005 17:13:52 +0000, Captain Slick wrote:
Roger W. Norman wrote: You need a better rounded music knowledge than. Berklee is one of the premier music and arts education facilities in the country. Well, that was my opinion, and that's what the OP asked for. Does everyone else in the group have a better rounded music background than I? Sure looks that way. Is it a prerequisite knowledge for pro audio? If the audio you're producing is musical, then yes. If you do sound for TV news, game shows, documentaries, museum archives etc., you may be OK. |
#15
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Agent 86 wrote:
Well, that was my opinion, and that's what the OP asked for. Does everyone else in the group have a better rounded music background than I? Sure looks that way. [Rim shot] Poorly phrased, let me try again. Have most people in the group cultivated their music background to make them better professionals? -Bill |
#16
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I like to think that I've cultivated my professional background to make me a
better musician. -- Dave Martin Java Jive Studio Nashville, TN www.javajivestudio.com "Captain Slick" wrote in message news:1_Y%e.22426$wb3.5571@trndny03... Poorly phrased, let me try again. Have most people in the group cultivated their music background to make them better professionals? -Bill |
#17
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My opinion is that some of the best music in the world was written by
Bizet, who doesn't get half the credit he should. I also have the opinion that recordings should be an attempt to reproduce or to emulate the experience of a live event. Also, I think schnauzers are silly-looking dogs and shouldn't be forced to get such bad haircuts. And I am also of the opinion that the weather in Denver is much too dry. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#18
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Dave Martin wrote:
"Captain Slick" wrote... Poorly phrased, let me try again. Have most people in the group cultivated their music background to make them better professionals? I like to think that I've cultivated my professional background to make me a better musician. I'm hoping to better my background music to make me a cultivated professional. -- ha |
#19
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hank alrich wrote:
Poorly phrased, let me try again. Have most people in the group cultivated their music background to make them better professionals? I like to think that I've cultivated my professional background to make me a better musician. I'm hoping to better my background music to make me a cultivated professional. -- ha Thats good!! :^) |
#20
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Well, that was my opinion, and that's what the OP asked for. Does
everyone else in the group have a better rounded music background than I? Is it a prerequisite knowledge for pro audio? Then you have no opinion, thus didn't serve a purpose with your post, right? Just because you aren't knowledgable about a school doesn't mean it doesn't exist, it just means you have no knowledge about it. There is no proof or opinion in your statement one way or the other. BTW, Berkeley is only a location for the University of California, just like UCLA is the University of California/Los Angeles or UCI is the University of California/Irvine. However, Berklee is the actual name of the institution and is easily googled for research purposes. Of course, that goes for the OP's question too. But to answer your last quoted question, yes, it would be at least nice that you knew of the major higher education facilities just in case one were to take you, an aspiring engineer or producer or whatever, to be an expert on further education. It is often much more appropriate to say you don't know when such is true. One can then assume that you speak from a truth standpoint rather than one of being ignorant of the subject at hand. -- Roger W. Norman SirMusic Studio http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/ "Captain Slick" wrote in message news:kzU%e.5614$794.1917@trndny01... Roger W. Norman wrote: You need a better rounded music knowledge than. Berklee is one of the premier music and arts education facilities in the country. Well, that was my opinion, and that's what the OP asked for. Does everyone else in the group have a better rounded music background than I? Is it a prerequisite knowledge for pro audio? -Bill |
#21
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Poorly phrased, let me try again. Have most people in the group
cultivated their music background to make them better professionals? Well, in my best kung fu teaching voice, the answer is yes, the good ones do because it's important to them to continue to learn too. Probably not one of us here doesn't learn something of use every day. Whether it's something seemingly superflous such as the reputation of a music school, to how to read jazz charts so you know where the changes are and what to expect, to learning how to read music well enough to handle an entire orchestra and anything inbetween including those that hone their skills as musicians yet use them infrequently in recording. The more knowledge you have, the better you can serve your clients. One circumstance you don't want to be in is one of learning from the client as a matter of necessity. Nothing wrong with learning from a client, as we all do from time to time. But the idea of it becoming a necessity places you at the lowest rung of the music making population and not a real commodity. And without clients, one doesn't really have much to offer to the recording world, do they? -- Roger W. Norman SirMusic Studio http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/ "Captain Slick" wrote in message news:1_Y%e.22426$wb3.5571@trndny03... Agent 86 wrote: Well, that was my opinion, and that's what the OP asked for. Does everyone else in the group have a better rounded music background than I? Sure looks that way. [Rim shot] Poorly phrased, let me try again. Have most people in the group cultivated their music background to make them better professionals? -Bill |
#22
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Well, a couple regular posters here teach there, and at least one fellow
is a student there, so they have some representation in the group. They do seem to be a real college, with a more diversified education than a typical conservatory. They also have non-credited summer sessions that take most any student willing to pay the price. How could one hold a place like Berklee as a question when it can help students such as Al Di Meola. And while Johnny Winters might make one wonder whether such an education is worth it in terms of popularity and success (or even Eddie Van Halen), one only has to look at the depth and breadth of music a musician such as Al can encompass as a matter of course, whilst Johnny wouldn't feel at home in any environment that didn't have blues as it's base. In other words, why should one step outside of the box? Particularly when one can make the box as big as they want? The latter seems to be the more astute methodology towards the study of any of the arts. And the good thing is that it keeps you busy and out of the pool halls! g -- Roger W. Norman SirMusic Studio http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/ "Scott Dorsey" wrote in message ... Todd McFadden wrote: Well, I managed to introduce a lot of controversy (and even start a couple of fights) with my post about the infamous Behringer article. Now I give you this video to ponder. What do you think of the school. I must admit I am a big fan. Of Berklee? --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#23
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I think the most important thing that was said here is that you'll get out
what you put into it. The place has all the gear, and can probably afford upgrades more readily than other recording and music schools. Well, there are course specific environments like SAE that have tons of money spent for the purpose of educating aspiring engineers, but for the most part those desiring to attend probably far outnumber the people who can actually achieve getting a job with the school on their resume. Major facilities are folding faster than even a few years ago, although other facilities are expanding to meet an expanding market. But job opportunities are faltering even so and the requirements for success in the mainstream of the recording industry are becoming more diverse even as they trend towards more specificity. For instance, one might be expected to know how to read an orchestral score and be able to run Pro Tools. Either one might get you a job, but both skills will more quickly get you a job. So I guess it just depends on how much your brain can hold. There are times when I forget that two years ago I yanked two tubes out of my Traynor Mark III, much less how to decode an M-S recording properly when I don't use it but once every 5 years. The point being that having all the gear only means you have all the gear. Having such is not a path to success. -- Roger W. Norman SirMusic Studio http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/ "Chevdo" wrote in message news:z10%e.253761$9A2.155863@edtnps89... In article , says... Thanks for the responses. My post was really an experiment. I can't reveal why just yet, but I will in a few weeks. This may have set some sort of record. It is the first set of responses to anything on this newsgroup that appears to be unanimously favorable. That speaks volumes about the school and confirms my thoughts and opinions as well. I think the most important thing that was said here is that you'll get out what you put into it. The place has all the gear, and can probably afford upgrades more readily than other recording and music schools. If you have access to all the gear, you can learn everything you want to even if the instructors suck. At the local recording school here, even if the instructors are great, the fact is that they make you work with obsolete DAWs and there is a smaller gear-student ratio. At Berklee at least you might not be waiting in line with your classmates for your 10 minutes on the only pro console to complete your projects. Again, thanks. You've helped me in ways you'll hear about later. Todd "studiorat" wrote in message oups.com... FAME !!!! I wanna live forever!!! The ad is shocking. I've seen their stuff on line. The courses seem to be well put together. It looks like a pretty serious place. How much is it ? BTW. JS how many of your year are working? |
#24
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In retrospect my first comment does seem flippant although it was not my
intention. Yes I'm ignorant and lack a rounded background in music. In no way did I mean to disparage Berklee. (See previous sentence) Thanks for your comments Roger, I see now that there's a entire aspect to r.a.pro that I wasn't aware of. -Bill |
#25
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In retrospect my first comment does seem flippant although it was not my
intention. Yes I'm ignorant and lack a rounded background in music. In no way did I mean to disparage Berklee. (See previous sentence) Thanks for your comments Roger, I see now that there's a entire aspect to r.a.pro that I wasn't aware of. We don't aim to denegrate, we aim to educate. The idea of working in music without having some serious basics in music is something I've never previously given consideration. Then again, I've often said that we need to offer up our resumes to www.recaudiopro.net so that people would have a place to go look and get some background on whom they are talking to. We used to have regulars that would blow your mind on accomplishments. As new people come in, demanding that their ideas are the correct ones, the idea of mentoring has faded away. Ten years ago you could talk directly to George Massenberg, Bob Ohlsson, John LaGrou, amongst a number of others and get highly qualified answers. Of those still here today Mike Rivers, Scott Dorsey, Hank Alrich, Ty Ford and a number of others still hang on, but when push comes to shove, it's not likely that this will be the case for a number of years in the future. Hell, I've been blown out of the water so many times that I only read in most cases today. Sometimes I have time, sometimes I have things to say, most times RAP isn't even a consideration anymore. This actually hurts me more than I want to admit, but there it is. Out of the people that I've conversed with over the past 15 years online I've learned more from Glenn Meadows, Bob Ohlsson, George Massenberg, Bill Park and numerous others I can't even list. Having actually had a chance to work with John Vengrouskie, Mike Rivers, Scott Dorsey and others from this group simply puts it all into perspective. This group is here for the purpose of helping those that don't have the experience to gain that experience. Gabe Weiner set this group up, and at 26 he passed away, yet left a legacy of quality work. Many of us are decades older and yet still haven't achieved what Gabe did, and so when those like George or Bob only somewhat post here weakens us all. It also places those of us with less experience than the masters in the position of helping to bring up the new crew. For anyone to walk into a restaurant and say that the food tastes like **** requires that they can cook the food better. For those that don't know this, we lose important people. I assume you see the dilemma? -- Roger W. Norman SirMusic Studio http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/ "Captain Slick" wrote in message news:Xkc0f.8521$794.3722@trndny01... In retrospect my first comment does seem flippant although it was not my intention. Yes I'm ignorant and lack a rounded background in music. In no way did I mean to disparage Berklee. (See previous sentence) Thanks for your comments Roger, I see now that there's a entire aspect to r.a.pro that I wasn't aware of. -Bill |
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