Today I drove up to my local Tweeter and was going to make an appointment
to have my gear installed (sub, amp, front speakers). At first the fellow
told me I could not hook it up so that I could use my fader as a sub level
controller. I actually showed him some exact quotes from you guys about
how it was possible and eventually he said they could do it (after trying
to convince me I needed some converter).

After punching the info in the computer, he got a final price of 220
bucks which was about 80 more than I was quoted earlier. I asked him to
explain why the increase in the price and he showed me that all these
additional fees were being added, along with some hi-lo connector or
something. They also tried to get me to pay about 30 bucks for "their"
wire. When I questioned what was so special about "their" wire, the guy
got all upset, and finally admitted that since I wasn't buying the gear
from them, they have to add all these charges.

So after ****ing the guy off I just left and went to Circuit City where I
was quoted a price of $114. Then when I asked if they could hook it up
with the sub level controlled by the fader, the guy got confused and then
started telling me I needed a 40 dollar converter. I told him I had just
been to Tweeter and they said there was no converter required. Finally he
said it was possible but it would likely be about 60 dollars more to hook
it up that way. Plus he said I would need more speaker wire. So the
final price would be around $180 plus the additional speaker wire.

I guess I'll go with CC even though their installers are generally less
skilled.

Thanks to everybody for their help so far (Mark, Paul, Eddie, etc.)
Don

Today I drove up to my local Tweeter and was going to make an appointment
to have my gear installed (sub, amp, front speakers). At first the fellow
told me I could not hook it up so that I could use my fader as a sub level
controller.

Did I call that or what?

I actually showed him some exact quotes from you guys about
how it was possible and eventually he said they could do it (after trying
to convince me I needed some converter).

You'll never get one of those guys to admit they're wrong.


After punching the info in the computer, he got a final price of 220
bucks which was about 80 more than I was quoted earlier. I asked him to
explain why the increase in the price and he showed me that all these
additional fees were being added, along with some hi-lo connector or
something. They also tried to get me to pay about 30 bucks for "their"
wire. When I questioned what was so special about "their" wire, the guy
got all upset, and finally admitted that since I wasn't buying the gear
from them, they have to add all these charges.

So after ****ing the guy off I just left and went to Circuit City where I
was quoted a price of $114. Then when I asked if they could hook it up
with the sub level controlled by the fader, the guy got confused and then
started telling me I needed a 40 dollar converter. I told him I had just
been to Tweeter and they said there was no converter required. Finally he
said it was possible but it would likely be about 60 dollars more to hook
it up that way. Plus he said I would need more speaker wire. So the
final price would be around $180 plus the additional speaker wire.

You're not going to need any additional speaker wire to do it this way. The
only difference between doing it the way I said and the way your friend said
is that you'd be putting the wires in a different terminal on the same
amplifier. Yet another example of installer incompetence! Don't feel bad.
I've yet to meet an installer within the past 5 years that knows what he's
doing. All you can do is hope that they don't break anything.

PS - $10 says they don't hook it up the way you're asking them to.

I guess I'll go with CC even though their installers are generally less
skilled.

Maybe I missed it but why do you not go to a car audio shop and not a chain
store?

Les

"Mark Zarella" wrote in message
...
snip the meat of the post|
| PS - $10 says they don't hook it up the way you're asking them to.

I'm taking some of this action too ;-) put me in for another $10

Maybe I missed it but why do you not go to a car audio shop and not a
chain
store?

He's probably looking to save money. Shops can charge as much as 3 times as
much as a chain. Every now and then you find a shop that will charge the
same (or even less), but it just may not be worth his time to go hunting.

In addition, I'm not convinced that he'd be any better off going with a
shop. They tend to have the same teenage greaseballs working in the back
too. Not only that, but they're less accountable than a chain too. The
shop can just tell you to go F yourself, and you'd have no recourse. At
least with a chain there's actually a hierarchy, that Duane the
mouthbreather owner isn't at the top of.

"Mark Zarella" wrote in message
news
Maybe I missed it but why do you not go to a car audio shop and not a
chain
store?

He's probably looking to save money. Shops can charge as much as 3 times
as
much as a chain. Every now and then you find a shop that will charge the
same (or even less), but it just may not be worth his time to go hunting.

In addition, I'm not convinced that he'd be any better off going with a
shop. They tend to have the same teenage greaseballs working in the back
too. Not only that, but they're less accountable than a chain too. The
shop can just tell you to go F yourself, and you'd have no recourse. At
least with a chain there's actually a hierarchy, that Duane the
mouthbreather owner isn't at the top of.

A shop charging more than one of the chains, now that's scary. The local
shop here does better work, cheaper. One of the most humorous things is
when the local shop did the door pods for a circuit city installer. CC
certainly wasn't going to try it.

I called a few local audio shops and the installation price they quoted
was about $350 for labor only. I'd rather go with a place that charges
one third the price and has the guarantees. A friend of mine got an amp
and subs installed at CC and they goofed up slightly but were willing to
fix it at no cost a couple days later.

Don

On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 21:13:38 +0000, Soundfreak03 wrote:
I guess I'll go with CC even though their installers are generally less
skilled.

Maybe I missed it but why do you not go to a car audio shop and not a chain
store?

Les

A shop charging more than one of the chains, now that's scary. The local
shop here does better work, cheaper. One of the most humorous things is
when the local shop did the door pods for a circuit city installer. CC
certainly wasn't going to try it.

A lot of local shops actually "hire out" for other shops to make custom
enclosures/pods all the time. Some places have actually made agreements to
do that.

"Mark Zarella" wrote in message
...
A shop charging more than one of the chains, now that's scary. The
local
shop here does better work, cheaper. One of the most humorous things is
when the local shop did the door pods for a circuit city installer. CC
certainly wasn't going to try it.

A lot of local shops actually "hire out" for other shops to make custom
enclosures/pods all the time. Some places have actually made agreements
to
do that.

I suppose that is possible, but I know it wasn't so in the situation I
referenced. The local CC/BB here do NOT do good work. I have seen the
local shop fix some nightmare installs done at the box stores.

I decided I may just have Circuit City do a standard install. They seemed
to get real confused when I tried to explain to them the fader/subcontrol
idea and they thought I needed extra wire, possibly an adapter, and
additional charges. The more I think about it, the less confident I am
that they'll do it that way correctly and not charge me extra for nothing.
I'm sure there would still be a way for me to control the sub (bass) level
from the HU, right? Can't I use the bass control on the HU? Or would I
need something else for that to work?

Don

On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 15:51:04 -0500, Don Joe wrote:

Today I drove up to my local Tweeter and was going to make an appointment
to have my gear installed (sub, amp, front speakers). At first the fellow
told me [etc etc etc]

I decided I may just have Circuit City do a standard install. They seemed
to get real confused when I tried to explain to them the fader/subcontrol
idea and they thought I needed extra wire, possibly an adapter, and
additional charges. The more I think about it, the less confident I am
that they'll do it that way correctly and not charge me extra for nothing.
I'm sure there would still be a way for me to control the sub (bass) level
from the HU, right? Can't I use the bass control on the HU? Or would I
need something else for that to work?

The bass control would control the bass level of all your speakers. This
would be fine if the bass level control was for a narrower bandwidth, but
they usually tend to start around 200-300 Hz. It works, sure, but not well.
Because when you want to just attenuate the subwoofer output, you can't.

If they do it their way and eliminate the need for the "extra" speaker wire,
then what they're doing is using the rear speaker's wire to run everything -
fronts, rears, sub. Otherwise, they'd have to run a wire from the front
speaker outputs to the back of the car. They may try to tell you that's
extra work. But guess what? It's not anymore work than what they'd have to
do to install an amp if you had an aftermarket radio! In that case, they'd
have to run a set of RCAs back to the trunk instead of a speaker wire. It's
no more work. Also, they won't need to use an extra spkr-level to line out
adapter either. For both cases, they'd need 4 channels to adapt. That is,
unless they went the half-assed route and ran everything off the rear
speaker wire and left you with nothing on the front wire.

Now you're starting to get me going. What's wrong with these imbecile
installers??

Now you're starting to get me going. What's wrong with these imbecile
installers??


Seriously... Why is this concept so difficult for them to understand? Isn't
there some sort of criteria that these installers must meet before they can be
hired?

Nick

I appreciate the explanation, Mark. I will request that they install it
so that I can use the fader as the sub level control. I'll report back on
their success or lack thereof.

Don

On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 21:55:30 -0500, Mark Zarella wrote:

I decided I may just have Circuit City do a standard install. They seemed
to get real confused when I tried to explain to them the fader/subcontrol
idea and they thought I needed extra wire, possibly an adapter, and
additional charges. The more I think about it, the less confident I am
that they'll do it that way correctly and not charge me extra for nothing.
I'm sure there would still be a way for me to control the sub (bass) level
from the HU, right? Can't I use the bass control on the HU? Or would I
need something else for that to work?

The bass control would control the bass level of all your speakers. This
would be fine if the bass level control was for a narrower bandwidth, but
they usually tend to start around 200-300 Hz. It works, sure, but not well.
Because when you want to just attenuate the subwoofer output, you can't.

If they do it their way and eliminate the need for the "extra" speaker wire,
then what they're doing is using the rear speaker's wire to run everything -
fronts, rears, sub. Otherwise, they'd have to run a wire from the front
speaker outputs to the back of the car. They may try to tell you that's
extra work. But guess what? It's not anymore work than what they'd have to
do to install an amp if you had an aftermarket radio! In that case, they'd
have to run a set of RCAs back to the trunk instead of a speaker wire. It's
no more work. Also, they won't need to use an extra spkr-level to line out
adapter either. For both cases, they'd need 4 channels to adapt. That is,
unless they went the half-assed route and ran everything off the rear
speaker wire and left you with nothing on the front wire.

Now you're starting to get me going. What's wrong with these imbecile
installers??