[Trevor]

On 10/02/2017 4:36 AM, Paul wrote:
I'll tell you what else!

The tweeter horn is "A Product of Peavey Electronics," with NO
crossover in sight, except a 5.6uF cap in series!

That *IS* a 6db/oct High pass filter/crossover!
The absolute minimum required to stop the horn instantly blowing up of
course.

I wonder what happened to all the original JBL parts though.


I'll probably sell this, and get a new or newer JBL or Mackie
cab.

I sure hope you don't try to pass it off as a JBL 12SR then.

Trevor.

[Trevor]

On 10/02/2017 10:59 AM, Mike Rivers wrote:
On 2/9/2017 6:22 PM, Paul wrote:
Would getting a cheap speaker crossover on Ebay possibly clean
up the sound a bit? Again, it only has a 5.6uF cap in series with
the tweeters.....

Doubt it. The capacitor protects the tweeter from getting woofed at. The
woofer won't reproduce the tweets, so the only other thing you can add
to it is an inductor to keeps the tweets from wasting some power trying
to drive the woofer, not much to gain there.

From his description there may well be something to gain by getting rid
of some midrange going to the woofer, which is probably part of the
crook midrange he is describing. May well be a big midrange peak with
both speakers operating in that band if the woofer isn't naturally
rolling off quick enough for such a simple xover network. Add to that
the horn is probably far more efficient than the woofer and thus would
need to be attenuated, NOT just a capacitor.

However having no original JBL parts and no ability to test it properly
in it's new guise sounds like an audio nightmare to me.
Looks like he is just going to inflict it on some other poor sap.

Trevor.

[Paul[_13_]]

On 2/9/2017 9:26 PM, Trevor wrote:
On 10/02/2017 4:36 AM, Paul wrote:
I'll tell you what else!

The tweeter horn is "A Product of Peavey Electronics," with NO
crossover in sight, except a 5.6uF cap in series!

That *IS* a 6db/oct High pass filter/crossover!
The absolute minimum required to stop the horn instantly blowing up of
course.

Of course you are correct, that's a first order high pass filter,
-6dB/Octave or -20 dB/decade.

But my idea of a proper crossover includes some low pass filtering
to the woofer, of which there is absolutely nothing in this cab
at all!



I wonder what happened to all the original JBL parts though.


Probably taken out with the original JBL tweeters, when they
blew out!


I'll probably sell this, and get a new or newer JBL or Mackie
cab.

I sure hope you don't try to pass it off as a JBL 12SR then.


I won't. I'll probably keep this for my own usage. You don't need
high end equipment to have a backyard jam session!

[Paul[_13_]]

On 2/9/2017 9:39 PM, Trevor wrote:
On 10/02/2017 10:59 AM, Mike Rivers wrote:
On 2/9/2017 6:22 PM, Paul wrote:
Would getting a cheap speaker crossover on Ebay possibly clean
up the sound a bit? Again, it only has a 5.6uF cap in series with
the tweeters.....

Doubt it. The capacitor protects the tweeter from getting woofed at. The
woofer won't reproduce the tweets, so the only other thing you can add
to it is an inductor to keeps the tweets from wasting some power trying
to drive the woofer, not much to gain there.

From his description there may well be something to gain by getting rid
of some midrange going to the woofer, which is probably part of the
crook midrange he is describing. May well be a big midrange peak with
both speakers operating in that band if the woofer isn't naturally
rolling off quick enough for such a simple xover network. Add to that
the horn is probably far more efficient than the woofer and thus would
need to be attenuated, NOT just a capacitor.

However having no original JBL parts and no ability to test it properly
in it's new guise sounds like an audio nightmare to me.
Looks like he is just going to inflict it on some other poor sap.


Does anyone have a schematic of the original, sweep-able crossover
for this cab?

I was not able to find anything on the net...

[Phil Allison[_4_]]

Paul wrote:


the horn is probably far more efficient than the woofer and thus would
need to be attenuated, NOT just a capacitor.

However having no original JBL parts and no ability to test it properly
in it's new guise sounds like an audio nightmare to me.
Looks like he is just going to inflict it on some other poor sap.


Does anyone have a schematic of the original, sweep-able crossover
for this cab?



** The JBL x-over is not "sweepable".

You do not have the original JBL components, so have no need to duplicate the original x-over.

Designing a suitable x-over is a job for someone with expertise - so not you.



..... Phil

[Paul[_13_]]

On 2/9/2017 10:19 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
Paul wrote:


the horn is probably far more efficient than the woofer and thus would
need to be attenuated, NOT just a capacitor.

However having no original JBL parts and no ability to test it properly
in it's new guise sounds like an audio nightmare to me.
Looks like he is just going to inflict it on some other poor sap.


Does anyone have a schematic of the original, sweep-able crossover
for this cab?



** The JBL x-over is not "sweepable".

There was a pot to adjust the high end roll off, so that's
sweepable, you dumb****!



You do not have the original JBL components, so have no need to duplicate the original x-over.

Designing a suitable x-over is a job for someone with expertise - so not you.


**** you, bitch. I've designed RF filters, so this wouldn't be a
huge stretch.

And if you took your ****ed up head out of your ass, you would
realize I was ASKING FOR A ****ING SCHEMATIC, WHICH IS ALREADY DESIGNED,
DUMB****!

BOY, YOU ARE STUPID!

[Phil Allison[_4_]]

Paul the Nutter wrote:



Does anyone have a schematic of the original, sweep-able crossover
for this cab?



** The JBL x-over is not "sweepable".

There was a pot to adjust the high end roll off,

** Wrong. There was an attenuator for tweeter level.


so that's sweepable,

** Like hell.


you dumb****!


** You are a lying, brain dead pig.




You do not have the original JBL components, so have no need to duplicate the original x-over.

Designing a suitable x-over is a job for someone with expertise - so not you.


**** you, bitch.


** You are worse the a stupid, lying pig.


I've designed RF filters,

** No you haven't.

so this wouldn't be a
huge stretch.


** It's way beyond an asswipe like you.



And if you took your ****ed up head out of your ass, you would
realize I was ASKING FOR A ****ING SCHEMATIC, WHICH IS ALREADY DESIGNED,
DUMB****!



** I pointed out why it is NO use to you.

You stupid, lying, ****ing asswipe.



..... Phil

[Paul[_13_]]

On 2/9/2017 10:57 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
Paul the Nutter wrote:



Does anyone have a schematic of the original, sweep-able crossover
for this cab?



** The JBL x-over is not "sweepable".

There was a pot to adjust the high end roll off,

** Wrong. There was an attenuator for tweeter level.


Perhaps. Do you have a sample schematic that shows this?



so that's sweepable,

** Like hell.


you dumb****!


** You are a lying, brain dead pig.




You do not have the original JBL components, so have no need to duplicate the original x-over.

Designing a suitable x-over is a job for someone with expertise - so not you.


**** you, bitch.


** You are worse the a stupid, lying pig.


I've designed RF filters,

** No you haven't.


Yes, I have, using ADS and Microwave Office. Edge-coupled filters
on alumina stable. Lumped element filters too. 0.5-40 GHz.


so this wouldn't be a
huge stretch.


** It's way beyond an asswipe like you.

Audio frequencies are a cakewalk compared to GHz!





And if you took your ****ed up head out of your ass, you would
realize I was ASKING FOR A ****ING SCHEMATIC, WHICH IS ALREADY DESIGNED,
DUMB****!



** I pointed out why it is NO use to you.

You stupid, lying, ****ing asswipe.


Hahaha! I know your type well! An old fart, way past his prime,
and DESPERATE FOR ATTENTION BECAUSE HE NEVER MADE A MARK ON THE INDUSTRY!

Ok, since you are so desperate to show off: Tell us how you would
design a crossover, if given the spec sheets for the tweeters and woofer?

I'm all ears, BUTT-****ER!

[Phil Allison[_4_]]

Paul wrote:



** The JBL x-over is not "sweepable".

There was a pot to adjust the high end roll off,

** Wrong. There was an attenuator for tweeter level.


Perhaps. Do you have a sample schematic that shows this?



** Says so in the data sheet - asswipe.



Designing a suitable x-over is a job for someone with expertise - so not you.


**** you, bitch.


** You are worse the a stupid, lying pig.


I've designed RF filters,

** No you haven't.


Yes, I have, using ADS and Microwave Office.

** Yawnnnnnnnnn........




** It's way beyond an asswipe like you.

Audio frequencies are a cakewalk compared to GHz!


** Totally separate topics - asswipe.

Audio ain't simple when you are a clueless idiot.




And if you took your ****ed up head out of your ass, you would
realize I was ASKING FOR A ****ING SCHEMATIC, WHICH IS ALREADY DESIGNED,
DUMB****!



** I pointed out why it is NO use to you.

You stupid, lying, ****ing asswipe.


Hahaha!


** Go **** yourself - asswipe.


Ok, since you are so desperate to show off: Tell us how you would
design a crossover, if given the spec sheets for the tweeters and woofer?


** I know exactly how to, long as I have the drivers in my possession and can run tests. Spec sheets do not contain adequate info.


You stupid, know nothing, bull****ting, TROLLING ASSWIPE !!!



..... Phil

[Paul[_13_]]

On 2/9/2017 11:52 PM, Phil Allison wrote:



I've designed RF filters,

** No you haven't.


Yes, I have, using ADS and Microwave Office.

** Yawnnnnnnnnn........

Haha! Never used either program, right?

BWHAHA!






** It's way beyond an asswipe like you.

Audio frequencies are a cakewalk compared to GHz!


** Totally separate topics - asswipe.

Audio ain't simple when you are a clueless idiot.




And if you took your ****ed up head out of your ass, you would
realize I was ASKING FOR A ****ING SCHEMATIC, WHICH IS ALREADY DESIGNED,
DUMB****!



** I pointed out why it is NO use to you.

You stupid, lying, ****ing asswipe.


Hahaha!


** Go **** yourself - asswipe.


Ok, since you are so desperate to show off: Tell us how you would
design a crossover, if given the spec sheets for the tweeters and woofer?


** I know exactly how to, long as I have the drivers in my possession and can run tests. Spec sheets do not contain adequate info.


OK, THEN TELL US HOW YOU DO IT, MR. KNOW-IT-ALL!

CAN'T CAN YOU! THAT'S BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW ****!

HAHA!

[Paul[_13_]]

On 2/9/2017 9:39 PM, Trevor wrote:
On 10/02/2017 10:59 AM, Mike Rivers wrote:
On 2/9/2017 6:22 PM, Paul wrote:
Would getting a cheap speaker crossover on Ebay possibly clean
up the sound a bit? Again, it only has a 5.6uF cap in series with
the tweeters.....

Doubt it. The capacitor protects the tweeter from getting woofed at. The
woofer won't reproduce the tweets, so the only other thing you can add
to it is an inductor to keeps the tweets from wasting some power trying
to drive the woofer, not much to gain there.

From his description there may well be something to gain by getting rid
of some midrange going to the woofer, which is probably part of the
crook midrange he is describing. May well be a big midrange peak with
both speakers operating in that band if the woofer isn't naturally
rolling off quick enough for such a simple xover network. Add to that
the horn is probably far more efficient than the woofer and thus would
need to be attenuated, NOT just a capacitor.

However having no original JBL parts and no ability to test it properly
in it's new guise sounds like an audio nightmare to me.
Looks like he is just going to inflict it on some other poor sap.


I imagine this site is too simplistic:

http://www.apicsllc.com/apics/Misc/filter2.html

[Phil Allison[_4_]]

Paul the Criminal ****wit Troll wrote:




I've designed RF filters,

** No you haven't.

Yes, I have, using ADS and Microwave Office.

** Yawnnnnnnnnn........

Haha!


** Go straight to hell - ****wit.

The software did the design - not you, asswipe !!




Ok, since you are so desperate to show off: Tell us how you would
design a crossover, if given the spec sheets for the tweeters and woofer?


** I know exactly how to, long as I have the drivers in my possession and can run tests. Spec sheets do not contain adequate info.


OK, THEN TELL US HOW YOU DO IT, MR. KNOW-IT-ALL!


** What the ****ing hell for ?????

You would have NO way of knowing if what I posted was correct or not.

Go **** your ugly, retarded mother - asswipe.






...... Phil

[Trevor]

On 10/02/2017 4:04 PM, Paul wrote:
On 2/9/2017 9:26 PM, Trevor wrote:
On 10/02/2017 4:36 AM, Paul wrote:
I'll tell you what else!
The tweeter horn is "A Product of Peavey Electronics," with NO
crossover in sight, except a 5.6uF cap in series!

That *IS* a 6db/oct High pass filter/crossover!
The absolute minimum required to stop the horn instantly blowing up of
course.

Of course you are correct, that's a first order high pass filter,
-6dB/Octave or -20 dB/decade.

But my idea of a proper crossover includes some low pass filtering
to the woofer, of which there is absolutely nothing in this cab
at all!


JBL themselves made speakers with no crossover components to the woofer.
In the right circumstances it is actually a benefit.
I'd be more worried that the horn HP filter is only 6dB/oct. that rarely
works well IME. Especially with no sign of any attempt to match speaker
sensitivities. Unlikely the woofer is as efficient as the horn.

Trevor.

[Trevor]

On 10/02/2017 5:41 PM, Paul wrote:
On 2/9/2017 10:57 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
Does anyone have a schematic of the original, sweep-able crossover
for this cab?

** The JBL x-over is not "sweepable".

There was a pot to adjust the high end roll off,

** Wrong. There was an attenuator for tweeter level.

Perhaps. Do you have a sample schematic that shows this?

so that's sweepable,

** Like hell.

you dumb****!

** You are a lying, brain dead pig.

You do not have the original JBL components, so have no need to
duplicate the original x-over.

Designing a suitable x-over is a job for someone with expertise - so
not you.
**** you, bitch.

** You are worse the a stupid, lying pig.

I've designed RF filters,

** No you haven't.

Yes, I have, using ADS and Microwave Office. Edge-coupled filters
on alumina stable. Lumped element filters too. 0.5-40 GHz.

so this wouldn't be a
huge stretch.

** It's way beyond an asswipe like you.

Audio frequencies are a cakewalk compared to GHz!

And if you took your ****ed up head out of your ass, you would
realize I was ASKING FOR A ****ING SCHEMATIC, WHICH IS ALREADY DESIGNED,
DUMB****!

** I pointed out why it is NO use to you.

You stupid, lying, ****ing asswipe.

Hahaha! I know your type well! An old fart, way past his prime,
and DESPERATE FOR ATTENTION BECAUSE HE NEVER MADE A MARK ON THE INDUSTRY!

Ok, since you are so desperate to show off: Tell us how you would
design a crossover, if given the spec sheets for the tweeters and woofer?


You have the spec sheets for YOUR tweeter and Woofer? And they show ALL
necessary information and measurements to properly design a suitable
crossover? Or you are able to make those proper measurements yourself?
Sounds unlikely to me or you wouldn't have asked the question you did in
the first place!

Trevor.

[Trevor]

On 10/02/2017 6:08 PM, Paul wrote:
On 2/9/2017 9:39 PM, Trevor wrote:
On 10/02/2017 10:59 AM, Mike Rivers wrote:
On 2/9/2017 6:22 PM, Paul wrote:
Would getting a cheap speaker crossover on Ebay possibly clean
up the sound a bit? Again, it only has a 5.6uF cap in series with
the tweeters.....

Doubt it. The capacitor protects the tweeter from getting woofed at. The
woofer won't reproduce the tweets, so the only other thing you can add
to it is an inductor to keeps the tweets from wasting some power trying
to drive the woofer, not much to gain there.

From his description there may well be something to gain by getting rid
of some midrange going to the woofer, which is probably part of the
crook midrange he is describing. May well be a big midrange peak with
both speakers operating in that band if the woofer isn't naturally
rolling off quick enough for such a simple xover network. Add to that
the horn is probably far more efficient than the woofer and thus would
need to be attenuated, NOT just a capacitor.

However having no original JBL parts and no ability to test it properly
in it's new guise sounds like an audio nightmare to me.
Looks like he is just going to inflict it on some other poor sap.


I imagine this site is too simplistic:

http://www.apicsllc.com/apics/Misc/filter2.html

Short answer, yes, for your purpose.

Trevor

[Paul[_13_]]

On 2/10/2017 12:12 AM, Phil Allison wrote:
Paul the Criminal ****wit Troll wrote:




I've designed RF filters,

** No you haven't.

Yes, I have, using ADS and Microwave Office.

** Yawnnnnnnnnn........

Haha!


** Go straight to hell - ****wit.

The software did the design - not you, asswipe !!

HEY ****TARD, THE SOFTWARE DOESN'T KNOW IT'S OWN LIMITATIONS...THE
USER HAS TO KNOW THAT, AND HOW TO USE THE PROGRAM. THAT TAKES
KNOWLEDGE, ****-WIT!

AND WHAT DUMB-**** IS GOING TO CALCULATE AND OPTIMIZE BY HAND,
A 2.5D FINITE ELEMENT ANALYSIS, CONFORMAL MESH? ONLY A ****TARD THAT
WANTS TO WASTE HIS TIME, AND THE COMPANY'S TIME!

BUT YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THE **** I'M TALKING ABOUT ANYWAYS, SO
**** OFF!






Ok, since you are so desperate to show off: Tell us how you would
design a crossover, if given the spec sheets for the tweeters and woofer?


** I know exactly how to, long as I have the drivers in my possession and can run tests. Spec sheets do not contain adequate info.


OK, THEN TELL US HOW YOU DO IT, MR. KNOW-IT-ALL!


** What the ****ing hell for ?????

You would have NO way of knowing if what I posted was correct or not.

Go **** your ugly, retarded mother - asswipe.


I'LL **** ON YOUR MOMMA'S GRAVE FIRST, AND THEN **** DOWN YOUR
THROAT, BITCH MOTHER-****ER!

GO BACK TO ****ING YOUR DADDY'S PUSSY, YOU FAGGOT-ASS ****-FACE!

[Paul[_13_]]

On 2/10/2017 12:38 AM, Trevor wrote:
On 10/02/2017 5:41 PM, Paul wrote:
On 2/9/2017 10:57 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
Does anyone have a schematic of the original, sweep-able crossover
for this cab?

** The JBL x-over is not "sweepable".

There was a pot to adjust the high end roll off,

** Wrong. There was an attenuator for tweeter level.

Perhaps. Do you have a sample schematic that shows this?

so that's sweepable,

** Like hell.

you dumb****!

** You are a lying, brain dead pig.

You do not have the original JBL components, so have no need to
duplicate the original x-over.

Designing a suitable x-over is a job for someone with expertise - so
not you.
**** you, bitch.

** You are worse the a stupid, lying pig.

I've designed RF filters,

** No you haven't.

Yes, I have, using ADS and Microwave Office. Edge-coupled filters
on alumina stable. Lumped element filters too. 0.5-40 GHz.

so this wouldn't be a
huge stretch.

** It's way beyond an asswipe like you.

Audio frequencies are a cakewalk compared to GHz!

And if you took your ****ed up head out of your ass, you would
realize I was ASKING FOR A ****ING SCHEMATIC, WHICH IS ALREADY
DESIGNED,
DUMB****!

** I pointed out why it is NO use to you.

You stupid, lying, ****ing asswipe.

Hahaha! I know your type well! An old fart, way past his prime,
and DESPERATE FOR ATTENTION BECAUSE HE NEVER MADE A MARK ON THE INDUSTRY!

Ok, since you are so desperate to show off: Tell us how you would
design a crossover, if given the spec sheets for the tweeters and woofer?


You have the spec sheets for YOUR tweeter and Woofer? And they show ALL
necessary information and measurements to properly design a suitable
crossover? Or you are able to make those proper measurements yourself?
Sounds unlikely to me or you wouldn't have asked the question you did in
the first place!


No ****, Sherlock!

Gee....maybe if I knew the answer myself, I wouldn't ask the
question?

How would YOU design a crossover?

[Paul[_13_]]

On 2/10/2017 12:41 AM, Trevor wrote:
On 10/02/2017 6:08 PM, Paul wrote:
On 2/9/2017 9:39 PM, Trevor wrote:
On 10/02/2017 10:59 AM, Mike Rivers wrote:
On 2/9/2017 6:22 PM, Paul wrote:
Would getting a cheap speaker crossover on Ebay possibly clean
up the sound a bit? Again, it only has a 5.6uF cap in series with
the tweeters.....

Doubt it. The capacitor protects the tweeter from getting woofed at.
The
woofer won't reproduce the tweets, so the only other thing you can add
to it is an inductor to keeps the tweets from wasting some power trying
to drive the woofer, not much to gain there.

From his description there may well be something to gain by getting rid
of some midrange going to the woofer, which is probably part of the
crook midrange he is describing. May well be a big midrange peak with
both speakers operating in that band if the woofer isn't naturally
rolling off quick enough for such a simple xover network. Add to that
the horn is probably far more efficient than the woofer and thus would
need to be attenuated, NOT just a capacitor.

However having no original JBL parts and no ability to test it properly
in it's new guise sounds like an audio nightmare to me.
Looks like he is just going to inflict it on some other poor sap.


I imagine this site is too simplistic:

http://www.apicsllc.com/apics/Misc/filter2.html

Short answer, yes, for your purpose.


Ok, what is the long answer?

What order filter should I use and why?

Linkwitz-Riley, Butterworth, or Bessel?

How do you pick the optimum crossover frequency?

[Phil Allison[_4_]]

Paul the PSYCHOPATHIC ****wit Troll wrote:





I've designed RF filters,

** No you haven't.

Yes, I have, using ADS and Microwave Office.

** Yawnnnnnnnnn........

Haha!


** Go straight to hell - ****wit.

The software did the design - not you, asswipe !!

HEY ****TARD,


** Go **** your ugly, autistic whore mother.




** I know exactly how to, long as I have the drivers in my possession and can run tests. Spec sheets do not contain adequate info.


OK, THEN TELL US HOW YOU DO IT, MR. KNOW-IT-ALL!


** What the ****ing hell for ?????

You would have NO way of knowing if what I posted was correct or not.

Go **** your ugly, retarded mother - asswipe.


I'LL **** ON YOUR MOMMA'S GRAVE FIRST,


** Then **** your ugly, ****wit whore mother.

For good luck.



..... Phil

[Phil Allison[_4_]]

Paul the Psycho TROLL wrote:



Short answer, yes, for your purpose.


Ok, what is the long answer?

What order filter should I use and why?

Linkwitz-Riley, Butterworth, or Bessel?

How do you pick the optimum crossover frequency?



** Designing such a x-over network is an engineering problem to be analysed and solved with the particular components on hand in a well equipped, audio electronics workshop environment - not a series of simple dumb Qs to be answered.

But the brain dead **** asking here could not understand or even believe that fact even if it were given a thousand centuries to do so.

Only thing the vile POS is any good at is ****ing his ugly mum.





..... Phil

[Mike Rivers[_2_]]

On 2/10/2017 12:49 AM, Paul wrote:
There was a pot to adjust the high end roll off, so that's
sweepable, you dumb****!

"Sweepable" usually refers to variable frequency, not variable level.
What was originally there was simply a volume control for the tweeter.
Try this:

http://www.parts-express.com/speaker...8-ohm--260-265

You don't really need a 100 watt attenuator for the tweeter, but it's an
off-the-shelf part that comes with instructions.

Parts Express is a good source for off-the-shelf crossovers as well as
parts to build your own.



--

For a good time, call http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com

[Scott Dorsey]

In article , Trevor wrote:
On 9/02/2017 1:17 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
In article , Paul wrote:
They could then establish a Mean Time before Failure (MTBF), and
say statistically that you could use this speaker with this amp, and
expect an average of this many hours of usage before blowing the speaker.

The only person who has ever even made a stab at that sort of thing is
Wolfgang Klippel. Klippel has done more to establish statistical quality
control of speaker drivers than anyone else ever, I suspect.

Is Dick Pierce still with us?

He is, he still even posts to Usenet now and then.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

In article , Paul wrote:
On 2/9/2017 10:19 PM, Phil Allison wrote:

** The JBL x-over is not "sweepable".

There was a pot to adjust the high end roll off, so that's
sweepable, you dumb****!

Actually, it's not. "Sweepable" implies the turnover frequency can be
changed, not the amplitude.

You do not have the original JBL components, so have no need to duplicate the original x-over.

Designing a suitable x-over is a job for someone with expertise - so not you.


**** you, bitch. I've designed RF filters, so this wouldn't be a
huge stretch.

RF filters are comparatively easily since the loads aren't crazy. The problem
with crossover design is that your load impedances are crazy and in the case
of the woofer the load impedance depends on the cabinet. There is a good
introduction to the process in the Vance Dickason Loudspeaker Cookbook.

Note that if you have a woofer in a box not designed for it, trying to make
a crossover work properly is probably futile anyway.

And if you took your ****ed up head out of your ass, you would
realize I was ASKING FOR A ****ING SCHEMATIC, WHICH IS ALREADY DESIGNED,
DUMB****!

The problem is that design will only work with the drivers for which it's
intended. Put in different drivers, the load impedances are all different,
the efficiencies are different, and so the crossover needs to be different.

This stuff is actually designed together as a system.

BOY, YOU ARE STUPID!

Phil is frequently offensive and occasionally wrong but I wouldn't call
him stupid.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

In article , Trevor wrote:
On 10/02/2017 5:41 PM, Paul wrote:

Ok, since you are so desperate to show off: Tell us how you would
design a crossover, if given the spec sheets for the tweeters and woofer?

You have the spec sheets for YOUR tweeter and Woofer? And they show ALL
necessary information and measurements to properly design a suitable
crossover? Or you are able to make those proper measurements yourself?
Sounds unlikely to me or you wouldn't have asked the question you did in
the first place!

The spec sheets for the driver don't tell you anything useful at all. Well,
the impedance curve on the tweeter might, but the one on the woofer or on a
midrange driver isn't going to tell you much because once you put it into a
cabinet the impedance curve is going to change. You have actually build the
low end cabinet as a system, then measure the impedance curve and start
working from there.

You _also_ need to fine tune the crossover by actually measuring the system
as a whole, in part because you can't really model the degree of phase
shift accurately enough to completely predict the response over the crossover
region where signal is coming from both drivers.

A very good, extremely elementary introduction to the practice of crossover
design can be found in Vance Dickason's _Loudspeaker Cookbook_ although you
should be careful to realize that this is really just the tip of the iceberg.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Paul[_13_]]

On 2/10/2017 5:00 AM, Mike Rivers wrote:
On 2/10/2017 12:49 AM, Paul wrote:
There was a pot to adjust the high end roll off, so that's
sweepable, you dumb****!

"Sweepable" usually refers to variable frequency, not variable level.
What was originally there was simply a volume control for the tweeter.
Try this:

http://www.parts-express.com/speaker...8-ohm--260-265


You don't really need a 100 watt attenuator for the tweeter, but it's an
off-the-shelf part that comes with instructions.

Parts Express is a good source for off-the-shelf crossovers as well as
parts to build your own.


We have those for RF too:

https://www.microwaves101.com/calcul...tor-calculator

[Paul[_13_]]

On 2/10/2017 4:23 AM, Phil Allison wrote:

Paul the PSYCHOPATHIC ****wit Troll wrote:





I've designed RF filters,

** No you haven't.

Yes, I have, using ADS and Microwave Office.

** Yawnnnnnnnnn........

Haha!


** Go straight to hell - ****wit.

The software did the design - not you, asswipe !!

HEY ****TARD,


** Go **** your ugly, autistic whore mother.




** I know exactly how to, long as I have the drivers in my possession and can run tests. Spec sheets do not contain adequate info.


OK, THEN TELL US HOW YOU DO IT, MR. KNOW-IT-ALL!


** What the ****ing hell for ?????

You would have NO way of knowing if what I posted was correct or not.

Go **** your ugly, retarded mother - asswipe.


I'LL **** ON YOUR MOMMA'S GRAVE FIRST,


** Then **** your ugly, ****wit whore mother.

For good luck.


Zzzzzz......zzzzzzz.....zzzzzzz.......

[Paul[_13_]]

On 2/10/2017 7:29 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
In article , Paul wrote:
On 2/9/2017 10:19 PM, Phil Allison wrote:

** The JBL x-over is not "sweepable".

There was a pot to adjust the high end roll off, so that's
sweepable, you dumb****!

Actually, it's not. "Sweepable" implies the turnover frequency can be
changed, not the amplitude.

You do not have the original JBL components, so have no need to duplicate the original x-over.

Designing a suitable x-over is a job for someone with expertise - so not you.


**** you, bitch. I've designed RF filters, so this wouldn't be a
huge stretch.

RF filters are comparatively easily since the loads aren't crazy.

Not completely true, as antenna loads are not always a nice
50 Ohms, and are dependent on the environment.

And the parasitic inductances and capacitances become critical
when you get into the higher GHz range, especially over 20GHz or so.

Also, in the case of microwave edge-coupled filters, the enclosure
you put them in becomes a waveguide, and must be designed as such.

[JackA]

On Friday, February 10, 2017 at 11:56:18 AM UTC-5, Paul wrote:
On 2/10/2017 7:29 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
In article , Paul wrote:
On 2/9/2017 10:19 PM, Phil Allison wrote:

** The JBL x-over is not "sweepable".

There was a pot to adjust the high end roll off, so that's
sweepable, you dumb****!

Actually, it's not. "Sweepable" implies the turnover frequency can be
changed, not the amplitude.

You do not have the original JBL components, so have no need to duplicate the original x-over.

Designing a suitable x-over is a job for someone with expertise - so not you.


**** you, bitch. I've designed RF filters, so this wouldn't be a
huge stretch.

RF filters are comparatively easily since the loads aren't crazy.

Not completely true, as antenna loads are not always a nice
50 Ohms, and are dependent on the environment.

And the parasitic inductances and capacitances become critical
when you get into the higher GHz range, especially over 20GHz or so.

Once built a LC circuit (with variable capacitor) to replace crystal on CB set. First attempt failed. But, what was I using, typical coax audio cable for connection. Replaced it with RG58U (small diameter) coax cable and we were up and running. That's only, what, 27 MHz.

Jack

Also, in the case of microwave edge-coupled filters, the enclosure
you put them in becomes a waveguide, and must be designed as such.

[Paul[_13_]]

On 2/10/2017 10:40 AM, JackA wrote:
On Friday, February 10, 2017 at 11:56:18 AM UTC-5, Paul wrote:
On 2/10/2017 7:29 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
In article , Paul wrote:
On 2/9/2017 10:19 PM, Phil Allison wrote:

** The JBL x-over is not "sweepable".

There was a pot to adjust the high end roll off, so that's
sweepable, you dumb****!

Actually, it's not. "Sweepable" implies the turnover frequency can be
changed, not the amplitude.

You do not have the original JBL components, so have no need to duplicate the original x-over.

Designing a suitable x-over is a job for someone with expertise - so not you.


**** you, bitch. I've designed RF filters, so this wouldn't be a
huge stretch.

RF filters are comparatively easily since the loads aren't crazy.

Not completely true, as antenna loads are not always a nice
50 Ohms, and are dependent on the environment.

And the parasitic inductances and capacitances become critical
when you get into the higher GHz range, especially over 20GHz or so.

Once built a LC circuit (with variable capacitor) to replace crystal on CB set. First attempt failed. But, what was I using, typical coax audio cable for connection. Replaced it with RG58U (small diameter) coax cable and we were up and running. That's only, what, 27 MHz.


That's still the HF (high frequency) range, so would need RF coax,
as you found out....

[Paul[_13_]]

On 2/10/2017 7:34 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
In article , Trevor wrote:
On 10/02/2017 5:41 PM, Paul wrote:

Ok, since you are so desperate to show off: Tell us how you would
design a crossover, if given the spec sheets for the tweeters and woofer?

You have the spec sheets for YOUR tweeter and Woofer? And they show ALL
necessary information and measurements to properly design a suitable
crossover? Or you are able to make those proper measurements yourself?
Sounds unlikely to me or you wouldn't have asked the question you did in
the first place!

The spec sheets for the driver don't tell you anything useful at all. Well,
the impedance curve on the tweeter might, but the one on the woofer or on a
midrange driver isn't going to tell you much because once you put it into a
cabinet the impedance curve is going to change. You have actually build the
low end cabinet as a system, then measure the impedance curve and start
working from there.

You _also_ need to fine tune the crossover by actually measuring the system
as a whole, in part because you can't really model the degree of phase
shift accurately enough to completely predict the response over the crossover
region where signal is coming from both drivers.

A very good, extremely elementary introduction to the practice of crossover
design can be found in Vance Dickason's _Loudspeaker Cookbook_ although you
should be careful to realize that this is really just the tip of the iceberg.
--scott


Some interesting reading he


http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi...asurement.html

[JackA]

On Friday, February 10, 2017 at 1:11:23 PM UTC-5, Paul wrote:
On 2/10/2017 10:40 AM, JackA wrote:
On Friday, February 10, 2017 at 11:56:18 AM UTC-5, Paul wrote:
On 2/10/2017 7:29 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
In article , Paul wrote:
On 2/9/2017 10:19 PM, Phil Allison wrote:

** The JBL x-over is not "sweepable".

There was a pot to adjust the high end roll off, so that's
sweepable, you dumb****!

Actually, it's not. "Sweepable" implies the turnover frequency can be
changed, not the amplitude.

You do not have the original JBL components, so have no need to duplicate the original x-over.

Designing a suitable x-over is a job for someone with expertise - so not you.


**** you, bitch. I've designed RF filters, so this wouldn't be a
huge stretch.

RF filters are comparatively easily since the loads aren't crazy.

Not completely true, as antenna loads are not always a nice
50 Ohms, and are dependent on the environment.

And the parasitic inductances and capacitances become critical
when you get into the higher GHz range, especially over 20GHz or so.

Once built a LC circuit (with variable capacitor) to replace crystal on CB set. First attempt failed. But, what was I using, typical coax audio cable for connection. Replaced it with RG58U (small diameter) coax cable and we were up and running. That's only, what, 27 MHz.


That's still the HF (high frequency) range, so would need RF coax,
as you found out....

RF? Really Fine? :-)

Jack

[gareth magennis]

"Paul" wrote in message news

12" Woofer cone distorts badly, due to torn paper
cone:

http://www.jblpro.com/pub/obsolete/Control_12sr.pdf

I believe the tweeter is fine.

Can anyone recommend a replacement woofer?

I've never tried re-coning: Is it relatively successful
the first time? I am good with my hands.

Thanks for any good feedback.....








Blimey, after all that, I think we need a good laugh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XSC_UG5_kU


Gareth.

[Phil Allison[_4_]]

Paul the Schizo Troll wrote:



RF filters are comparatively easily since the loads aren't crazy.

Not completely true,



** But a very fair comment.

Not that a pig ignorant, mother****ing scumbag like you would know the difference.




..... Phil

[Trevor]

On 11/02/2017 1:24 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
In article , Trevor wrote:
On 9/02/2017 1:17 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
In article , Paul wrote:
They could then establish a Mean Time before Failure (MTBF), and
say statistically that you could use this speaker with this amp, and
expect an average of this many hours of usage before blowing the speaker.

The only person who has ever even made a stab at that sort of thing is
Wolfgang Klippel. Klippel has done more to establish statistical quality
control of speaker drivers than anyone else ever, I suspect.

Is Dick Pierce still with us?

He is, he still even posts to Usenet now and then.

He was by far my favorite poster 10-20 years ago. Sadly haven't seen a
post from him in quite a while, so I'm glad to hear he is OK.

Trevor.

[Trevor]

On 11/02/2017 1:34 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
In article , Trevor wrote:
On 10/02/2017 5:41 PM, Paul wrote:

Ok, since you are so desperate to show off: Tell us how you would
design a crossover, if given the spec sheets for the tweeters and woofer?

You have the spec sheets for YOUR tweeter and Woofer? And they show ALL
necessary information and measurements to properly design a suitable
crossover? Or you are able to make those proper measurements yourself?
Sounds unlikely to me or you wouldn't have asked the question you did in
the first place!

The spec sheets for the driver don't tell you anything useful at all.

Usually don't, which is why I specified able to make the proper
measurements required.


Well,
the impedance curve on the tweeter might, but the one on the woofer or on a
midrange driver isn't going to tell you much because once you put it into a
cabinet the impedance curve is going to change. You have actually build the
low end cabinet as a system, then measure the impedance curve and start
working from there.

Not necessarily true for a two way system. By the time the woofer
reaches above 1kHz, the cabinets affect on it will usually be minimal.
You certainly are NOT going to be crossing over a horn tweeter with a
6dB/oct network below 1kHz!



You _also_ need to fine tune the crossover by actually measuring the system
as a whole, in part because you can't really model the degree of phase
shift accurately enough to completely predict the response over the crossover
region where signal is coming from both drivers.

When you're simply throwing unknown drivers into a box not designed for
them, you are probably not going to worry about minor details!
Almost *anything* would be an improvement over one capacitor, just
getting the sensitivities of the two drivers matched would be huge
start. :-)

Trevor.

[[email protected]]

Try on ebay. There art two available now. JBL part 119HS-1. I got one to replace the SW of mine.

[Scott Dorsey]

In article ,
wrote:
Try on ebay. There art two available now. JBL part 119HS-1. I got one to replace the SW of mine.

Too late... later in the thread they were determined not to be Control 12s
at all.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."