[Mike Rivers]

A friend of mine just got a Sound Devices 722 and was asking me sound
questions about it. All I have to work with is the manual (he's an
out-of-towner so I don't have the machine in front of me. One problem
that he's having with it is one that I couldn't find enough info in the
manual to suggest a setup change, or if it's even possible. A block
diagram would have helped.

Here's his problem. He has the line outputs connected to a set of
speakers for playback. It behaves as if it's always in Input Monitor
mode except when actually playing a file. He can hit the Play button,
turn up the speakers, and hear what he just recorded, but as soon as he
hits the Stop button it goes back into Input Monitor mode, and if he
isn't quick enough on the speaker mute button, he gets feedback from the
mics. If it was an analog recorder, I'd describe it as not having a
button to arm/disarm for recording (which it doesn't have).

Given that the 722 is designed principally for film sound recording
where people wear headphones all day and probably never connect speakers
to its line outputs until the mics are put away, I suppose it's possible
that this is the only way it will work. But it would be nice if it would
be possible to go from Play to Stop and back to Play without having to
futz with the speakers. Can any of you 722 owners out there think of a
setting that would make it do that?

I see that the Input button can mute the inputs. Would that work?





--
If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach
me he
double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo -- I'm really Mike Rivers
)

[Mike Rivers]

Soundhaspriority wrote:

I just pulled out a 744T. I'm sorry I don't have time right now to
experiment, but I paged through the menus. On a 744T, item 69 is "HP:
Monitor Modes". This provides source/HD monitoring. I would guide him to
select monitoring the "letters", which are HD tracks, as opposed to the
"numbers", which are inputs.

I'm pretty sure he's doing that, first off because he can hear playback
from a recorded track, and seconds, because that's the default setting
for all of the "modes" and I'm quite sure he hasn't changed any of the
defaults yet.

If you hold "input" down, the four soft keys at the corners of the LCD
display act as mutes for outputs 1,2,3, and 4. However, I don't see how that
would help your friend.

Are you sure that's right? As I interpret the manual, those are mutes
for the inputs (which seems logical since they're on the Input button's
menu). I would expect it to be the same for the 722 only for two inputs
rather than the four that the 744 has. I figured that if the inputs were
muted, the mics would be dead and he wouldn't get feedback.

I record with them, dump the hard disks to the DAW, but do not attempt to
use them as a one-box solution.

He'll be doing field recording (young Southern banjo players) with it,
and will want them to be able to listen to playback on speakers during
the sessions.



--
If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach
me he
double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo -- I'm really Mike Rivers
)

[Mike Rivers]

Soundhaspriority wrote:

I'm looking at page 23 of the 722 manual, and I see one key phrase that I
see for two entries Look at "Monitor A,A Monitor B,B". It says,
"When not in playback, headphones have no program." The same phrase occurs
for "Monitor A,B (MS)"

The phrase is exactly what you want, but that phrase occurs nowhere else. If
your friend can put up with mono playback, it could work for him.

He can probably do with mono playback if it's a solo, but that looks
like it sends either the left channel or the right channel to both
phones. And we're talking about speakers here, fed from the Line or Tape
outputs. Is that always the same as the headphone output?


--
If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach
me he
double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo -- I'm really Mike Rivers
)

[Mike Rivers]

Soundhaspriority wrote:

Is your friend's experience that even with the bus feed selected as "Track A
Track B", he still hears the mike inputs in stop mode?

Apparently so, but he's there and I'm here.

If so, it seems these
features haven't received enough of a workout to be useful to the few who
need them. Once you have verified this, I would have your user call SD

He has an e-mail message into them now. The dealer, who's pretty
knowledgeable (he's also my dealer and friend) said he didn't know of a
way to change that. Said he figured that most people who had one either
used it like you do (no speaker playback) or were working in an
environment like film sound when you need to be monitoring the input
constantly, on headphones.

I'm reluctant to take this problem to the film sound newsgroup since
probably everybody there uses it in the same way, not this way.

--
If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach
me he
double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo -- I'm really Mike Rivers
)

[hank alrich]

Mike Rivers wrote:

Soundhaspriority wrote:

Is your friend's experience that even with the bus feed selected as "Track A
Track B", he still hears the mike inputs in stop mode?

Apparently so, but he's there and I'm here.

If so, it seems these
features haven't received enough of a workout to be useful to the few who
need them. Once you have verified this, I would have your user call SD

He has an e-mail message into them now. The dealer, who's pretty
knowledgeable (he's also my dealer and friend) said he didn't know of a
way to change that. Said he figured that most people who had one either
used it like you do (no speaker playback) or were working in an
environment like film sound when you need to be monitoring the input
constantly, on headphones.

I'm reluctant to take this problem to the film sound newsgroup since
probably everybody there uses it in the same way, not this way.

How about adding a small, cheap console to the rig to mute feed-through
when desired?

--
ha
shut up and play your guitar

[Mike Rivers]

hank alrich wrote:

How about adding a small, cheap console to the rig to mute feed-through
when desired?

If he did that, it wouldn't be a cheap console since the mics would be
going through it. The Sound Devices preamps are at least as good as a
Mackie, probably better. And besides, he wants a portable rig, which
means minimizing the number of cables and boxes that need to be hooked up.


--
If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach
me he
double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo -- I'm really Mike Rivers
)

[Marc Wielage[_2_]]

On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 17:41:16 -0800, Mike Rivers wrote
(in article ):

If he did that, it wouldn't be a cheap console since the mics would be
going through it.
------------------------------snip------------------------------

My advice would be to use a low-cost Mackie as a playback-only mixer. Duck
the mixer faders when you come out of record. Even a little passive input
selector box with pushbuttons (Mackie Big Knob, etc.) would work.

I'm not sure if the 722T has the same problem or not, but I know the 744T can
be controlled to not output input sound on stop mode. Chances are, though,
that's the way it would be used by 99% of most users (especially film & TV
people).

--MFW

[hank alrich]

Soundhaspriority wrote:

The 722 pres are considered stellar. Bypassing them would not be good.

I am familiar with a 744T. The pres are excellent. I'm not talking about
using a cheap mixer's preamps. I'm asking about inserting a simple,
cheap mixer in the playback chain in order to have a mute function.

--
ha
shut up and play your guitar

[hank alrich]

Mike Rivers wrote:

If he did that, it wouldn't be a cheap console since the mics would be
going through it.

I'm not suggesting feeding the recorder with a little mixer; I'm asking
about putting a little mixer into the playback chain to have playback
muting available.

--
ha
shut up and play your guitar

[hank alrich]

Marc Wielage wrote:

On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 17:41:16 -0800, Mike Rivers wrote
(in article ):

If he did that, it wouldn't be a cheap console since the mics would be
going through it.
------------------------------snip------------------------------

My advice would be to use a low-cost Mackie as a playback-only mixer. Duck
the mixer faders when you come out of record. Even a little passive input
selector box with pushbuttons (Mackie Big Knob, etc.) would work.

That's what I was asking about: the ability to control playback level. A
mixer with a mute button would make it easy.

--
ha
shut up and play your guitar

[Mike Rivers]

Marc Wielage wrote:

I'm not sure if the 722T has the same problem or not, but I know the 744T can
be controlled to not output input sound on stop mode.

How do you do that? What's the setup option called? There's no reason
the two models wouldn't have that function in common. I understand that
most users don't use them live with speakers, and it's fair enough that
the manufacturer just designed it to work that way. I just want to be
sure that there's nothing that he's missing that could make it work like
a "normal" recorder. He's not ignorant. He's used to a Nagra.

--
If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach
me he
double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo -- I'm really Mike Rivers
)

[Mike Rivers]

hank alrich wrote:

That's what I was asking about: the ability to control playback level. A
mixer with a mute button would make it easy.

That's not really the problem. When he's actually going in and out of
Record, he'll be wearing headphones and the speakers will be off. The
problem is when he wants to listen to playback on speakers and the mics
are still connected (because he's not finished with the recording). This
is why I think that the Input Mute button is the best way to solve the
problem if there is indeed no "Repro" monitor mode.



--
If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach
me he
double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo -- I'm really Mike Rivers
)

[hank alrich]

Mike Rivers wrote:

Marc Wielage wrote:

I'm not sure if the 722T has the same problem or not, but I know the
744T can be controlled to not output input sound on stop mode.

How do you do that? What's the setup option called? There's no reason
the two models wouldn't have that function in common. I understand that
most users don't use them live with speakers, and it's fair enough that
the manufacturer just designed it to work that way. I just want to be
sure that there's nothing that he's missing that could make it work like
a "normal" recorder.

The SD folks have a pretty good rep for being communicative.

He's not ignorant. He's used to a Nagra.

Well, I used to ride dinosaurs, but that hasn't helped me get a grip on
a Kawasaki Ninja. g

--
ha
shut up and play your guitar